Alicia

I've the same answer for the two of you. Stop assuming that I find having one geared class for an entire content cap acceptable. That was never my assumption when I joined. Stop assuming I find any enjoyment in walking around on a +6 set. Stop assuming that this game was designed around playing one class like it's tera or something. The fun is in experimentation, builds, theory crafting, unconventional setups, etc. Maybe you find being semi-viable in pvp fun, I don't. The experience I wanted, if I were to just pay in cash right now, would be nearly $2000 USD to get + all the required grind. I'm gonna go and take my lofty expectations elsewhere, like the countless games that respect my time and money.

I didn't say it was? Stop strawmanning my position. From the outset my position was that +6 was a must as a bare minimum for PVP and that has not changed, but I on a personal level, have no interest in playing the game without a realistic, reasonable expectation of being able to max out every single class at +10 before all that gear becomes irrelevant when 70 cap came around. I was entirely willing to p2w my way through if needed, but as it turns out, I've got enough self respect to not throw thousands of dollars into an 8 year old videogame. +10 being a complete ripoff and +6 being excessively difficult to get for free players (and that apparently has been fixed, I wouldn't know) are two different things that have nothing to do with each other. One is vital for a competitive environment, another is my personal prerrogative, and by the look of it, that of a lot of people as the thread was revived. To put it into perspective, I wouldn't play the game either if Jordan had made it so +6 was the max you could get. Fairness is one requirement, but the power fantasy of having fully maxed out glowing shit is the whole reason I played the game in the first place. What aeria/xlegends do on their servers doesn't matter to me in the least. Not even gonna bother responding to all the other bullshit. Because 1: this is my thread, 2 friends of mine still play and told me this blew up again. I have nothing against the server itself. If things change I might come back, and if not I'll just sit back and enjoy the carnage.

I think people are just starting to do the math bash. I'm sorry, but for all intents and purposes, when you're thinking "how much time/money do I have to drop to finish one class for this one current meta," +6 is still a drop in the bucket. Sure, it is the baseline, the bare minimum, but any pvp-minded person Isn't going to want to settle for that. The'll look at what it takes to +10 their class and they'll be like "That's $200, what a ripoff." Nevermind free players, those will never have a +10 set in their lives. I'd rather be bored after a month than be exploited. Which is why I quit on the spot when Jordan pretty much confirmed he wouldn't budge on the issue. I've zero, absolutely no interest in playing the game with the knowledge that getting every class to +10 and maxed out by the end of the meta isn't achievable. This is the second hard requirement I had besides +6 being reasonable to obtain, which seemed to fly over everyone's head lol. And this whole narrative about +10 not being necessary. I said it before trials came out. That two weeks later all the pvp whales would have +10 sets in gvg and hey, looks like I was right all along. What's the longevity here? Playing catch up for months on end or drop my life savings on this game? Jordan saying +10 armors are a minor bump is the most insulting thing I've read in a long while. I would have easily dropped $30-50 a month on this game if the economy was fair and balanced, but you guys seem to be happy with the couple dozen whales banking your operations. So good job I guess.

I'm not critizing you for spending money Matt. You do you, so did I. I spent money to. I'd be a hypocrite for pointing fingers. But you can't tell people to settle for +6 when you will be one of the very first people coming into GVG a week after trials come out clad in a gold +10 set. I'd bet money of it if I wasn't already $200 under And you're right, I could settle for +10 on a weapon and +6 on a set. That'd be plenty to stomp half the server. But like you, Losque, Aloha, etc I'm not interested in that. I want to compete with the best against the best. With the theoretical limit of what my cleric can do.

If this was a game where you played one class, and this was the endgame, yeah, you might have an argument there. This is the cost to just get PVP ready for the current meta. And don't come at me with the whole +6 is enough. If you're serious about PVP like I am, and I know you are too Matt because you're a freaking pro at this game, you know that's horseshit. But yeah, rationalize your spending however you like. I knew something was up when Heart was selling EC by the thousands in one day.

Dude, you're right. I'm so freaking grateful. You're right, I'm blessed I have the privilege to not play this game anymore. I'm throwing the gear fund for a PS5 or something. At least that's worth something~ You know, the sick truth is that if the number was $40 I'd probably pay it.But they had stick it in~

@Jordan @Bash @Vivi I've got a genuine question. I just did the math now. I was mostly throwing ballpark figures before, but let's see... I'm going to make this as clear as possible so everyone who reads this thread can see: 1EC = 100g 1EC = 62ap, this is the cheapest price possible, by buing in stacks of 200. I'm being generous. Cost of +10 on one piece. This is using averages plus some token amount for +6 based around getting really lucky with 10-15SS depending on which price you get them at. (3000 + 2*750*10 + 2*750*10) * = 33k Cost of the entire set for a 1h class is 231k So that sounds like a hell of a lot of gold, 4 months of work for a free player. Wow, they sure have it bad, but how does that look for the filthy p2w donators like us? 100g/62ap = 1.587, so 1ap = 1.587g How much is 1 ap? It's 1.1VGN if you drop the highest amount possible, $100. With $100 you get 60k vgn, so 600VGN per $1 To calculate how much g is $1, we just multiply like so: 1.587*1.1*600 = 1047 gold per dollar. Only one calculation left: 231,000 / 1047.42 = USD$220,54 I'm so glad to be a Donator, so I can spend an entire PS4 just to fort one set to +10. But hey, it saves me 4 months of grinding

At current pricing, you need, on average around 3k to +6 a single item. To +8, that number jumps to 15k. To +10, that's another 15k. You need to +10 6-7 items to be on level ground for a single class. That's 33k per item, multiply by 6, that's a loooooooot of gold to farm friend. And that's a single class. Hell, I can even put a dollar value on it. Gearing up one class, on average, right now, costs $220. $220 dollars just for gear. That's how pay to win this is lol.

It's not something I had considered, but on the other hand it wouldn't be too different from the current situation. EC, after all, are something that is also coming from AP buyers, except you're gambling for the reward. I guess you could say a bunch of AP users (EC sellers like me) who don't like to gamble help bridge that gap, and thus if you give us what we want straight up, there'd be less reasons to sell stuff in the first place. That's a fair point. Either way, please know that I'm not just looking out to myself here. I've pointed this out earlier in the thread, but it really is no fun for me to beat up random ungeared people. It's unrewarding and doesn't give me joy just as much as it doesn't to get beaten up by someone who just happened to have a stash of safety stones to fort their stuff with while I can't find any. I want GvG to not just be about 3-4 actually good guilds and a bunch of filler ones that don't even show up. I want to be able to log in and see a market, to trade with players. I don't want to log in to see no safety stones or whatever has been forgotten about completely missing or unavailable. I hate the crystal altar, I merely tolerate its existence because I enjoy the game. Point is, I can't have fun like this either, and I don't want to pay my way to beat the few dozen or so big whales because there's nothing rewarding there. Most are scumbags anyway. Truly if nothing gets done I'm just gonna leave. I have no interest in the game in its current state. It would take an extra $200-$300 to be competitive with the top players and that's the only tier where you'll find a fair match where skill matters. I ran the numbers, there's absolutely no fucking way a free player can compete in this environment, free players make like $1-$2 per day doing everything they possibly can. By then the next cap will probably out and free players would have to start from scratch. At that point I'm $500 into a game that only a few dozen people can really play. Is this really the classic experience we want to play? I don't think so.

Please don't start bashing each other's solutions. This thread is about the problem, and the ones who can solve it are the only decision makers here. Keep the thread civil so it doesn't get locked lol. The point was to bring to attention that this economy is fucked up. How they solve it I don't particularly care

This was another issue I had ranted about on guild chat earlier this week, and it really bothered me. I had spent an entire week tryharding, compromising my IRL work to an extent to make sure that I could be competitive and caught up by the time trials came around. Got to 60 thinking 65 would come out and we would have a good two weeks to prepare. Then Jordan announces everything is being pushed a week forward. I know this is off topic, but this decision drove me nuts. That meant I had to pay my way to 65 so I could farm my purples AND buy up overpriced armor boxes to have my set before trials were out. I cannot sustain this level of commitment over the long term. Hell, that's the entire reason I'm a donator! To save time! Now imagine if we had two weeks instead of one, this thread would have likely never happened. But when you squeeze everything into a 3-month schedule, I'm thinking about the costs to get everything in three months time, because to me the EE experience is to gear up every class. And if it's statistically impossible, bar of buying the VGN team a brand new company van, I'm not going to play along with it.

That's the thing Ted, this has already happened. I have enought purchasing power to +10 everything on every class if I feel like it. There's only two reasons why I don't do it: - I'm a financially responsible adult who cannot justify throwing an entire gaming console's worth of money at Bash every month, unlike some others I know. - I can't even if I wanted to, there are not enough stones in the market!

A fair point, and as stated in the title. I've spent more on this game in two weeks than I have on actual games in the past 3 months. As a donator, who contributes to their profits, I have legitimate grievances with the economy. As a donator, I need free players to be able to thrive so there will be gold in the game for me to sell EC for. As a donator, I want accessible and thriving PVP so that I can have fun in the game. None of these things are true at the moment. I'm either demolishing +2 "plebs" or getting demolished by +10 "pros". This is neither fun nor interesting. And if they want my hard earned dollars, they'll have to make the game fun, simple as that.

Let's not derail the discussion with what may or may not work. At the end of the day it's up to VGN to fix the economy and chances are if they decide to address it they'll come up with their own plan that works for them. I just don't want to be stuck from pvp for something this arbitrary, I don't think any player likes the idea of working hard to get all the meta equipment then being stuck because they can't find the p2w stones they need, even if they have the insane amounts of gold they cost. The problem is two fold, the supply is too low and the amounts necessary are simply unfeasible for the average player to obtain within reasonable time. I think at this point nobody's arguing that.

Not quite. Currently, AP buyers myself included, purchase EC primarily because it's the fastest thing to sell. If there was more demand for EP, I would buy EP instead. To me it makes no difference which one I'm selling because I simply want to get gold as fast as possible. More EP demand = More AP turned into EP instead of EC. But I digress, I don't really care how the problem is addressed as long as they take a long hard look at the economy right now.

Okay, there's so much wrong here. >Using EP to buy stones would make EP value increase EP's value is fixed. It costs the same no matter when you buy it, because it comes primarily from the AP store just as EC does. The gold value would fluctuate the same way EC does which is already happening. > Stone wipe will just make the game more pay to win and would actually help the staff to get more money from players. These would be stones released specifically to level the playing field at specific times, they are not the stones you can currently obtain, that's the whole point of a staggered release. >The altar changes every 3 days I don´t know why you just cant wait a few days to buy stones, there aren´t even trials lv65 to get weapons to upgrade. Because the last time regular SS were in altar I could only get my hands on 10 of them. Literally one guy put them in AH and the rest wouldn't sell. I don't gamble, I don't want to roll hundreds upon hundreds of EC because I get no enjoyment out of it. I purchase things from others and the reality of it is there are so few SS in supply that nobody sells them. Not gonna bother with the rest of your post. I don't care about what was or was not released. I have a problem with the economy, and I don't care for which particular solution is used to resolve it.

Literally nobody's arguing either of those things. Please re-read the thread.

Because people who throw hundreds upon hundreds of USD into the game also happen to be good at it? This isn't 2012, you're not outsmarting anyone at this point.

@Jordan @Bash I'm not going to just bitch about the problem. I have a plan that I believe would satisfy all parties involved. Staggered Halcyon Releases - At the start of every cap, all Halcyon SS get wiped from the server. - During the length of the cap, Halcyon stones will become available in order. First viridians, then ultramarines, and during the last third, corals. - Regular SS / Lucky Ultramarine / Lucky Coral should be available on the EP store at a fixed price, this will ensure the value will remain constant based on the cost of EC. These do not get wiped at the end of a cap. This will ensure that 1: tryhards can work/donate to get their +10s early, 2: the value and supply of SS remains consistent and predictable, 3: free players will be able to catch up to the meta at the very least during the final stages of the cap, and 4: easy means to get +10 will be purged before they can be used on the next cap.

This morning I posted a world call about this, a free player came to me and said "I have 3 +10 weapons" He had played hardcore from the start and that's all he had. Nevermind a +10 set, the way things are, that's never going to be possible for a free player at all. The difference between a guy with a +10 weapon and a guy with +10 everything is ASTRONOMICAL. There's just no comparrison. All free means to obtain SS have been essentially removed. You can't use EP, Alpaca Coins got nerfed hard, class bonus was removed, can't even get them from the freaking AP store. Literally, you only get SS when VGN feels like it, and you get the ones they want. I do not believe in the current situation that even a guy spending $20 a month would be able to gear every class to +10 by the end of the 65 meta. This is beyond ridiculous.

I'm also free to not donate to this server if I feel like the decisions made are worse than the very servers we stopped playing on for their greed. And until I see change I will not donate another cent.

Yeah, as I said before, my original post was not fair to you or anyone. I was just exhausted and incredibly angry lol. My bad. Please don't take it as a personal attack.

Let me put this through my perpective. I'm a brand new player. I started less than a week before the 65 cap released. I'm also a pretty hardcore pvp guy. I have to catch up and compete with people who have been around for like two months grinding every single day. And I did. I'm level 65, got all the gear I need, and the achievements. As of today, lv65 mostly done. I should be at the tippy top of the explorer rank when it updates. Two weeks of hardcore, nonstop, tryhard grinding, and what stops me from kicking ass in arena is... safety stones. Yeah, easy to say "wait a week." that's half the time I've been playing on this server lol.

First of all, let me preface by saying that was a 5am rant and that I was not in the best state of mind at the time. I did not mean to be insulting so apologies there. That said, point still stands. It's not about rarity or price. This was not my point at all. it's about availability. Corals and ultramarines are one thing, but regular SS should always be available, prices respond to how hard it is to land on altar, but cycling the cheapo, basic SS just makes people hoard them cause they don't know when they'll be back next. If they were at the very top of the altar every day then the price would still be high but you wouldn't see droughts like these. For new players, timing is everything, waiting a week is a week where arena isn't getting done and stuff not getting worked on. What happens when people hoard them? New players, donators or not, cannot catch up and start doing arena. I joined two weeks ago, I have to compete with people who have full gold +10 sets and weapons and having a +6 weapons just about puts you into not-punching bag territory. That's why it's the absolute minimum for pvp. I've had to put two months of grinding in the past two weeks. I'm worn out and tired, but I caught up and I'm happy about that, it just sucks to do all of that and be hard stopped by a drought in safety stones lol. The point of putting the amount of money I've put into the game is to compare to the aeria servers. At the very least on this particular issue, things are way worse at the moment. That's a whole lot more insane than classic ever was lol.

Hi, I'm a sucker who: Put $220 USD into this game Got all the achievements (available as of the 60 cap) Got all the necessary trophies Ishtar set 160% grimoire. You'd think I could have fun in arena right now, maybe participate in some PVP and not be a punching bag. Nope, not a chance, +4 weapon. As of this morning I'm sitting here with 20k in gold and 40k in ap and I can't do anything with it. I somehow have enough corals and ultramarines to +10 a weapon if I wanted to. Seriously, what the hell is this nonsense? Did you know that in the most greedy, egregious of servers, around this meta, you could get the safety stones needed to upgrade your weapon AND set to +7 and +6 respectively for a "mere" $100? How did VGN, a group that I trusted, that I worked as a GS for in the past, conjure an economy that you can't even P2W unless you join at the right time and gamble for SS all day? I had hopes, this is my favorite time in the game with the lv65 content. Sure, if I had known about this 2 months ago I would probably be apathetically looking at this post thinking "whatever I've got my stash." I don't blame hoarders for hoarding, it's VGN's job to provide a fair and balanced economy and this is anything but. I'm not even going to get into the joke that is not having lv65 chisels available, don't need to. The SS situation alone is enough for me to want to quit and cut my losses. +6 is a baseline, a standard, the bare mininmum. Every single player in this server, or any for that matter, should have immediate access to this, without having to sort through thousands upon thousands of dyes from the alpaca capsules. This is not a nice to have, it's required for the game to function as intended. And even Aeria Games knew of this. EDIT=I've been since found just enough SS through a guildie who had been saving up. My opinion hasn't changed, but at least the game isn't literally unplayable for the time being.