Reikan

Yes, the vast majority of players is wrong, only the select small group of you and your friends is correct. Nobody is allowed to have a different opinion. Grace us with your blessed sight. The game now is just Sisyphus work. You gear up, so you can gear up in the next update. Some people aren't fond of this routine and just moved towards something more dynamic. Hence why the staff is trying to tackle Arenas and other sources of PVP. I agree that the community mentality sucks, but maybe we can agree that the game is very old, rusty and not much can be done about that. It loses steam very quick, specially for those who already know how to progress. At some point, it gets dull, and I can't blame people for leaving. Since the topic is about Viridian Gorge and feedback, sticking to the topic, i'd like to contribute: Sisyphus work again. People aren't avoiding content because it was "bad designed" (because it wasn't), they are just tired enough not to force themselves to this. That's all.

I agree with you in the general idea, but as Nanami pointed out, we used to be able to work around some of the "S Tier classes" which were basically the most CC-heavier ones, using the pots. I'm quite sure we can't have a "Tenacity" status to lower CC durations, but the pots would be an easier (and more comfortable) approach for this community. If pots were still available, then we'd have the general idea of DMG dealt / DMG taken being the priority, and we have multiple classes that work around these status, so I guess maybe we'd have more S-Tier classes to play around with, instead of being defaulted into Conjurer/Reaver because these classes offer that much in skirmishes. Also, +1 to Nanami's idea of 5v5 arenas. ... And I'd like to adress Monster Battle Arenas too, since they were one of my favourites. Maybe just "setting up" the player status (instead of using Penthos) to the exact same amount every time, would help it being decent. Also, it would be cool to see VGN exclusive content in there, such as CC bosses or maybe stuff from AT/DF.

Well, it was a very well-thought answer considering how oblivious I was on structuring out my answer. Thanks for that. I think the Arena goes through many layers of issues. People will need to gear up to hop in. So expect maybe a couple of months to catch up on stuff, maybe 3 months. Before 3 months, you'll be just hopping in to feel bad. Then after the gear layer, you have the issue of some classes being able to do multiple roles in small skirmishes, akin to the issue on Holy Blade being able to self-heal, CC, do burst DMG while still lowering DMG received. Reaver, Conjurer and Annihilator fit this scenario aswell. So maybe people feel too much forced into these classes unless they're supporting, which might narrow down the target audience. And THEN we have the rewards. Well, they aren't really bad, but I wouldn't say they are desirable either. We have a couple of mounts, Mimic costumes and such. We also get warstones, which was the primary reason for ungeared people doing Arenas in the old times. I can't say for sure on what would be a better reward for Arenas, being quite honest. I've put plenty of hours in this subject, and even shared it with guildmates, but we never got to an agreement. Gold would ruin the server economy. Anything in the craft line would be redundant with the other rankings. More warstones could brick the server economy aswell. In a TL;DR way of thinking, maybe we should tackle the first layers before thinking about rewards, while I do agree they should be touched, arenas should be fun in the first place.

I'm just a player providing feedback. Regardless of Arena rewards, it will be there for farming the aforementioned reward instead of actual arena gameplay. Temple Arena has PVP with a big HP pool and DMG reduction, but nobody does it because it's better to just group and farm the PVE resources. In any case, feel free to ignore my feedback. Maybe I'm just a troll that hops into topics to cause disorder. Maybe i'm not trying to help and/or bring more players into the game. Who knows.

Most of endgame PVP requires at least 5 support classes in order to survive the big bursts of damage, which means it's just impossible to hop in 3v3 arenas without being CC-locked to death. I don't think that even changing Arena rewards would help it, people would hop in for the rewards and then leave once they were done with it. It's more of a root issue than the arena itself. It's been the main reason why you don't see smaller guilds on TWs anymore, or people trying to build bigger guilds to join the thing. In short: Too much DMG

I'll just ignore Lexs commentary since he seems angry at this topic or at us, not sure why. Gravity Manipulator Air Dance only grants +350% DMG for the next Feather of Lightness/Darkness. The times where it buffs more Feathers is a bug, that only happens when you kill the target with it (The game fails to remove the Air Dance buff). I used to farm gold on Gravity, and I could get 3 buffed Feathers with it. Although, on a PVP scenario, you often won't hitkill your target with it, and even if you do score the kill, you would need to change targets really fast before your character reaches the ground in order to benefit from the "two Feathers Air Dance". It's not something you can count as a class mechanic. And yeah, you can shoot 3 Feathers in a single Air Dance, but you'll only get the 350% amp in the first one. Hence why the +200% bonus on Destructive Leap is better in the long run.

I don't think LW/ED needs nerfs. Just that their contribution to -DMG Taken on PVP shouldn't exist, and instead the PVP maps should have a fixed amount of DMG Reduction. It should solve the 8:2 support:dps problem. You haven't seen me once in PvP because it is no longer possible for a leader like me to keep players interested into the PVP goal of the game, exactly because I'd have them forced into 8:2 supports for us to be able to even step into a PVP map. I used to PVP back when we had L120 / L100 Weaps-sets and before Dragonridge Sanctuary existed. We had Celestial and MoneyTeam in the scenario, and BrightShield was often in PVP maps. Not winning, but taking part. Having fun, which is the goal of gaming. The 7:3 or 8:2 ratio for supports:DPS was present but not something needed for a guild to step into a PVP map. It was still possible to walk around as a group without being instantly deleted by a single person. The DMG of the entire game scaled up, while our ability to defend ourselves without stacking 8 supports didn't. That's the issue. I'm not interested in winning PVP. I'm interested into bringing new/returning players back into the game scenario, and at the moment the odds of getting these players to stay are very low. We have too many better options of PVE games out there to play. I can't convince people that a game like this (EE on current state) is fun or balanced.

Nerfing one or other won't ever solve the 8:2 support:DPS issue. It will just bring another class to the top and the trend will continue, unless all the DMG potential gets nerfed into oblivion, rendering the game unplayable for most. DMG Taken in PVP maps should be the target of the changes, not specific classes. If after that, some class is still in the highlights, maybe THEN we could adress a nerf.

Sad to see that the topic derailed into these kinds of arguments, really. Holy Blade hasn't been touched in a while. The game got more base stats, more raw DMG, yet it still multiplies all these bonuses by 200%, which works for 3 skills instead of 1 from Gravity Manipulator. It's only natural that the class scaled up to this point. The -30% DMG taken while on air is only a complaint due to how the class scaled its damage through time, reaching the top charts of DMG dealt. What i'd adress here is: Is nerfing Holy Blade DMG output going to "solve" the PVP ratio of 8:2 support/DMG? People will always slug fight as much as they can because losing a player is a big loss in a fight. Not so much due to smoke bombs, but it's still an advantage. So whatever people can do to lower DMG taken will be an attractive resource that competitive players won't ever give up on using. The thing is: Most of the playerbase doesn't enjoy playing supports. Maybe why our PVP numbers are always low. Maybe we don't have popular PVP mechanics because we're forced into using 8:2 or 7:3 setups in order to barely survive. I'm not talking about Garden, SoulBreaker, Stardust. I'm talking about the rest of the potential community that could be joining PVPs but just doesn't bother because they'll have to sacrifice their fun just to sit and press buttons on an unwanted class (may it be Elegant Dancer, Life Worshipper or any other support). Playing support is a style that isn't for everybody, that's why for PVE you only need one, and that's why PVE is still popular. Adress DMG taken in PVP maps. Nerf the support classes offer of DMG Taken reductions. We need a support overhaul, where each support is there to offer a specific resource that's wanted on a strategy. Maybe the Adjudicator can be the "Jack of all trades" healer, but the rest shouldn't be there just to "add DMG reduction". That way, We wouldn't need 8 players focused on reducing the potential of a single Holy Blade (or Mecha, or whatever you guys tell us it's "meta" since it's not really "meta" but "what worked best on your strategies, players and resources"). That way, we'd have more people playing fun DMG or CC classes. Maybe our PVP would have more people interested into gearing up and joining. Sincerely, a Guild Leader that constantly keeps gearing up people just to see them leave the game because they don't want to play supports.

You literally skipped my entire suggestion. "- Inside Normal and Special Dungeons, Hero Trials and Dream of Destruction, players get +100% MoveSPD bonuses that doesn't add to the cap, making it possible to reach 200% with gears and achievements." About MoveSPD pet: It should be an advantage, considering people invested into it while giving away another positive status that could fill that role (say, -7% DMG Taken). A point that many are skipping: 20% MoveSPD from achievements 5% MoveSPD from Wind Meteor 5% MoveSPD from Gale Enchant 10% MoveSPD from Quick Passing II certificate 10% MoveSPD from Great Ranger's Protection (Path of Destiny) 5% MoveSPD from Purified Crystal 15% MoveSPD from Rhythm of Love (Spouse buff) Total: 70% MoveSPD. On this, i'm not counting: 5% MoveSPD from Vigorous Step (Recommended Event) 20% MoveSPD from Expert Hunter (Pet Pray) 20% MoveSPD from Super Boots (Pet Pray) 5% from Jordan's Blessing (Guild Statue) Any possible extention to MoveSPD gear swapping, such as Ixnas Bland Core (Trophy, +25% MoveSPD with Sniper Enchant) Meaning that today, someone can have 180% MoveSPD by idling, not counting gear procs or gear swaps. "The only way to survive hb oneshots even at 70 resistances is 4/5 healers, leaving smaller room to aoe wiper classes." To me, this is more of a class concern that a PVP issue, since it cleraly points out a finger to a single class, which IMO should be adressed in another fashion.

The amount of non-mounted moveSPD available in the game breaks a lot of core components of a healthy gameplay on PVP. In the other hand, it's exhausting to do content on PVE while being slow. The idea behind this topic is opening up the subject for discussion, while pointing out important viewpoints that directly affects how the game is perceived by everyone. PVE: Running is often done with MoveSPD procs, glyphs, skills and buffs to reach the desired 200% Movement Speed to waltz through the content. - Boss skills that reinforce the concept of moving away from a specific area, are either too easy, or too hard due to a deep MoveSPD debuff, that hurts even more in case someone dies and lose their buffs; - Running is less than half efficient if you're not fully buffed, reinforcing the idea of logging multiple accounts for self-buff. That happens in battle maps, but is specially present in dungeon farming. PVP: Doing PVP without MoveSPD buffs leaves you vulnerable to both offensive and defensive weaknessess; - You can't create an advantage against your enemies, because if they die, in 15~20 seconds they'll reach the place they were before; - Enemy get hit once, instantly swaps to shield and move away in a 150% MoveSPD pace. If you're playing a short range class or something that has to place skills on ground, due to server lag, the person is long gone before you can follow up, even if you have the same speed; - Slow is not a valid PVP strategy or component, due to how much speed is involved. Proposition: These would only make sense if they were added as a whole, separating each suggestion would be a mess since we'd be lacking MoveSPD in certain contents. - Removing MoveSPD from Murky Waters, Poem of Wind and Wind of Impatience. - Lowering the MoveSPD cap to 100%. - Mounted speed doesn't add to the base, overwriting character speed instead. - Inside Normal and Special Dungeons, Hero Trials and Dream of Destruction, players get +100% MoveSPD bonuses that doesn't add to the cap, making it possible to reach 200% with gears and achievements. - Inside Vingot Lab, Devastation Dimension, Battle of Time and Space, Dimension of Souls, Dragonside Ridge and Demonic Valley, players get +100% MoveSPD bonuses that doesn't add to the cap, making it possible to reach 200% with gears and achievements.

This is about to turn 1 year old and we still don't have Newsboy Cap Legendary.

The issue on Arch-Elementalist is that the Lightning Instance was basically a Holy Blade on a 25m AoE. A single Arch-Elementalist could wipe off entire teams depending on which procs happened between its combos. Holy Blade, as powerful as it is, isn't capable of doing the same. Agreed on smoke bombs (and Engineer pots).

If we were to consult only two guilds in order to know if they "accept" the changes or not, we'd be still stuck at old content since Eden players are most entitled to playing what they know and not adapting themselves. Human healers have the option to leave combat on a long cooldown, guilds that feel it's such a big advantage can adapt and build humans, or insert AoE invisible classes (such as Holy Sage that already has that) in their teams. Smoke bomb hurts weaker players A LOT, since they struggle too much more to create a small advantage on PVPs and when they manage to actually play better and find a breach, it's COMPLETELY negated by 3 healers spamming smoke bombs and pressing "revive" until it works. Getting rid of it and Engineer potion will only bring more dynamic gamestyles where people are ACTUALLY punished for having bad decisions/strategies rather than "well I messed up, let's just spam smoke bombs and fix that".

That's the suggestion, should I make another topic?

Quoting myself after 1 month.

Most of my ideas towards PVE and PVP in general are considered too abrupt and would require weeks of hard work for the VGN team, only to be seen as "bad design" by some players who are reluctant to changes. VGN Staff would also answer that their energies should be spent somewhere else. As you, i'm an enthusiast of clarity and predictability, so i'd say: - Change double-hit certs and achievements into +DMG Dealt bonuses; - Change Magnus into +DMG Dealt flat status gem, no proc involved. Forbid the stacking of multiple Magnus; - Clarity on Healing formula: We don't have access to P-Healing or G-Healing numbers, and we can't for sure say how WIS/G-Heal interact. This should be a right, not a guess. We should be able to see it in character status screen; - Healing Formula tweaks: Since we're not entirely sure on how healing works, here is an idea of how an ideal formula would work: WIS is converted into both P-Healing and G-Healing in a 1-5 ratio (such as INT and STR are converted into M-ATK and P-ATK). A 5000 WIS healer would have +25.000 G-Healing and P-Healing. If you add more G-Healing from gears, class expertise and other sources, let's say you have a total of 50.000 G-Healing. That's a 150k Heal (x3.0 from Mcrit DMG) with the guaranteed number on party members, plus 25k P-Healing making it a 175k self-heal; - Heal Overhaul: The reason why we have such problems with healers is the Heal Spam. All modern games have healers dealing with cooldowns and skill management. From my viewpoint, healers should have an entire revamp as a class itself. I'd be glad to send you a couple of suggestions on Discord, but adding them here would just infuriate healer mains as I know they just enjoy sitting and spamming heals; By removing the randomness of PVP (i'd say procs should be removed too, but people would probably hang me instead of thinking through...), we could look at the "issue" with more precision, therefore allowing for a more perfect class tailoring. We could cut edges from classes that excel at too much, and add bulk to classes that didn't reach a decent performance.

1 - Agreed. 2 - Agreed. 3 - Agreed, and i'd go even further: Just remove these trophies entirely. We have classes with CC, if people want that specific CC they should just play that class. I hate how hard it is to balance classes because of how many of these items are around, it's holding back too much potential buffs on classes that aren't popular. 4 - Completely agree. Also, change the -Malice certs into something useful on PVE, like PVE MoveSPD or something <Specific to PVE> (since Malice is PVE only) 5 - POD to me is a very tricky question - We have a racial craft market based around that, also people only invest time doing POD due to PVP being a very competitive scenario. People who do PVE with POD only do that because they are in a hurry, not because it's needed. Nerfing POD would force PVE players out of it, and due to lower impact on status after nerfs, it might hurt PVP aswell. I hate doing POD for PVP, and even though I'd enjoy it being "free on PVP maps" like NCTW in the old times, I can respect the racial craft market, therefore agreeing it shouldn't be touched. About the Block POD: Asura can lower your Block to -60% with skills and procs. Don't forget it's also a countermeasure for PVP players. 5 - I can only agree on raising stat values for EVA and ACC, all other stats are tricky to get around and I don't think they should be touched. Try yourself to raise your status on healers and you'll see how bad it is. 6 - Agreed. 7 - NO, PLEASE NO! Man, what went through your mind when suggesting this? Why are people allowed to stack +DMG Dealt indefinitely and not -DMG Taken? If party X is having trouble killing party Y, then it's party X job to look for countermeasures. Are you in a GvG? you can bomb entire party Y. It's a TW issue? Is your team set up to stack debuffs and buffs, or are you just running 8 Arch-Elementalists in hope of huge AoEs? Current PVP is lacking players, and the only teams that are actually trying something are having issues gearing up and holding back some of the old players. Is it their fault? Yes, they should gear up faster and better before hopping in PVP. But again, if a group of new players has no countermeasure to lower the DMG in order to actually play PVP, even on subpar results, having to stack 5+ healers just to survive, not being able to properly cap or fight back (due to low DMG / Not enough CC classes)? They would just leave the game entirely because 2 Arch-Elementalists wiped them out. Point 7 is a free ticket to server doom. If it ever reaches live setup, i'm quite sure it would be catastrophical for the server.

Option 2, and i'll state why: a) Classic content gets done and boring really fast. Once everyone is geared, it turns into a "log for TW/GvG and nope away" game. Nobody outside of these events will actually stay if they feel the game is dead. b) We are already a small community, splitting it between 2 servers is going to make an already small server look dead. To both Classic and Awaken. c) VGN cards can be used on both servers. Awaken economy will stop getting VGN injected (or at least get far less than we currently have) and prices will skyrocket, hurting anyone who tries to hop in Awaken. d) People who invested in Classic are going to forever get pissed due to how their time, effort (and sometimes money) was wasted. I'd never come back to Awaken if it was "re-launched" and i'm quite sure everyone here knows how it must feel.

Please, add the legendary version of this, on altar: It would be nice to have the Faux Pipe with it too. Maybe the Trenchcoat?

Mystery Box / Altar: ✔️ ✔️

Please, on mystery box! ✔️

As a returning player, I had the obligation to comment here to give support to your idea. I used to be "top geared" when I was active, but now my gears are considered "not enough" for endgame content so i'll be stuck at 110 trials for a while before truly experiencing endgame content. Thanks for the suggestions.

I found funny how I'm being considered an absolute evil for voicing out an opinion that I had for 3+ years (as Infect just pointed out), and that opinion being "considered" by Jordan since some classes weren't being used. I didn't knew any nerfs were being done. Jordan asked me: "If you want a MDPS to be able to farm and do stuff solo, don't you think we could make the Arch-Elementalist more like a traditional mage?". I said "Yes, of course" and most of the class stuff was done by him. I'm not part of the VGN staff, so I don't have any influence on Jordan's decisions. The thing is, most of the community voice is heard from forums, not from peer chat. I'm sincere when I said I still didn't have the opportunity to play the endgame PVE, and I voiced my opinion on MDPS classes because now I don't have 12h+ to spend in the game to do what I used to do: Gear up 3 or 4 classes before the classes I want to play just because the meta is bad for MDPS PVE daily routine (I didn't even ask it to be "top dog" on endgame dungeons such as HoO/Abyss!). I just wanted to log in, do Palaces on a cool looking mage, and walk around doing small stuff solo, helping new players as I always did and have fun in my favourite role. Thanks for the new Arch-Elementalist, it made me very happy and now i'm always motivated to log-in and do my tasks.

1 - The thing is, PVE is the most part of the content. When you can't use something on PVP, you can just keep going through PVE while you gear your PVP classes, but the other way around can't work. Why would someone gear twice if they want to do PVE, and for what reason would they do it if the result is less efficient than the first gearing? 2 - I'll touch this "Meta" thing later on my comments. 3 - PVP has its own mechanics and the "ramping DMG" isn't that much of a problem when you can stack up in the duration of a Reaver's Knockdown. The "issue" with PVP meta is the player mindset that "whatever the top guild uses is the most efficient tactic available" but that isn't true. I've had my guild running into TWs with very different comps compared to such "meta" and being able to outsmart 20+ players from top guilds just because of how good the setup/positioning was. 4 - GM is far inferior to Assassin. Literally, at least 50% less efficient than the Assassin in speedrunning objectives. Other PDPS like Asura can still out-DPS the GM, unless the Assassin/Asura is really undergeared compared to the GM. 5 - Agree, but check #6. 6 - Agree, but most of the community does not. A new player isn't going to do Abyss with his newly geared (with "best" gear he could) -insert magic class here- unless it's for the specific MDPS boss, because the huge majority of the community wants to speedrun stuff, and they are simply incapable of taking 2 extra minutes to fill a role with a "less efficient" class in their team. That's how it is, and if a new player just can't do the late game with their main set of classes, they will just drop the game because there are so many other options of MMORPGs where they can play the class they want in late content, competitive way. Nobody is going to "find this marvelous game" which has 2010 technology, and go through 2 months of boring gameplay with classes they don't enjoy playing, to start gearing a class, that they will eventually use in a 30min-PVP everyday.