Skyrith
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Posts posted by Skyrith
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Also, i just made a little Visualisation on why lvl65 Gems should be added into the game:
(Just a little joke to brighten up the mood because reading forums is a pain today...)-
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1 minute ago, Matt said:
You can easily cap resist without the +5 resist gems (you can cap it now without any resist gems on a pdps, just have to use guardian enchants). I'd say that PDPS get fucked over even more with the introduction of those gems but again that's just my opinion.
... What?
so legendary Achievements: 10
commonly used Spenja/Torreyace combo with TE: 3 + 4
Heroic Trait (if u have it): 5
Ele-res Necklace: 5
Thats 27 total (+2x 8 for Fire but only because of the commonly used Whirpool cape and Avila-Volcano Necklace). Now you could use elemental resist certificates, bringing you up to 37, but you'd sacrifice a lot of stats in order to do so and you still won't be at 50. You'll STILL need (all things considered) 3-4 lvl 50 resist gems PER resistances. And you probably want Ice, Holy AND Fire to withstand the most used Pvp Classes.
I dont understand at all why PDPS get fucked over even more, and you again didn't even tell us why.
PDPS are more likely to be in need of critr for example, as 1 Lck = 1 mcritr but 1lck = 0,8 pcritr (https://edeneternal.fandom.com/wiki/Character_stat). this ultimately benefits both, but i feel like MDPS has it much easier to achieve high Mcritr because 1. it's easier to get procs because of AOE Dmg and 2. because of the above-mentioned Lck-Mcritr Ratio.
(Ranged PDPS probably don't have many crit-r issues due to high Lck Bonus on these classes, but thats doesn't go for every pdps and i don't want to focus on this aspect too much as lvl 4 stat gems benefits all kinds of Players - heal, pdps, mdps alike)
I think it's exactly the other way around. MDPS would get an indirect nerf because it gets easier to build up necessary Elemental Resistances - but so can you put physical resist gems into your armor - so again, Both benefit.
In the End, i'd like to repeat that Higher Resistances are imo necessary to make pvp more interesting and adding lvl 65 gem merchants would make that much more accessible for all kinds of players -
I don't know what up with all the hate towards lvl 4 gems compared to level 3 gems.
If we're talking about Stat Gems;
Lck Elimination lvl 3 is 5 lck and 12 mcritr
Lck Elimination lvl 4 is 6 lck and 14 mcritr
If u slot all your armor and weapon with these, that's a total difference of 18 lck and 36 mcritr, which should be around 3-5% at most (Depending on class, skilltree and whatever bonus you have). 3-5% is not bad, but the way you say it makes it sound like it's a difference of like 50%...
Talking about resistance gems:
Its true that lvl3 (lvl55) gems only give 3 elemental/physical resists while lvl 4 (lvl60) give 5 elemental/physical resist which is quite a jump, however, given how strong MDPS are and will become with the upcoming lvl 65/Awakened weapons, this will be pretty much necessary and it's also the only thing you can do on your own to counter that. (the other things would be Grace Of Wisdom and War Rhyme Glyphs - but you can't rely on those when queueing for 10v10 Arena for example, so putting resistance gems into your armor is the only counterplay for mdps, and you'd have to sacrifice A LOT of stats just to get a decent amount of a single elemental resistance)
About my Opinion:
I think lvl 65 gems should be available for lvl 65 cap. This game is always about gradual improvement from cap to cap. The Sets, gems and procs give better stats from level to level, but so do the requirements increase to reach a certain amount of mcritr for example. Like on level 60 you need around 2,2k mcritr to reach 100%, while it's over 4k mcritr on lvl 120 (i didnt check, but you should get the idea).So these better gems only make up for the higher requirements to reach a certain amount of mcritr.
I mean, these gems are lvl 65, so why should they not be intended for lvl 65? -
On 5/22/2020 at 3:04 AM, Jordan said:
- Guilds who contribute to a win deserve more of the Glory.
- Guilds with a lot of members should not just be able to out kill peoples victories on crystals.
You summarized my main Problems with the current TW very well there. All i really want is to be able to motivate my friends to stay up late and fight in TW - which isn't possible with the current System because of said problems. So this Thread was just about an Idea on how it could be fixed. Though i do agree that this isn't completely fleshed out yet.
On 5/22/2020 at 3:04 AM, Jordan said:TL;DR Shouldn't be random always as there is a lot of cases where 1 guild clearly does the majority of the work and deserve the win. Shouldn't remove all hope from an already downed enemy team. Shouldn't allow random Joe to hit the crystal once and win a TW.
I agree with all of this.
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If the Top guild makes that much of a difference by doing almost all of the work, then yes, a system like you adviced (If you win 4 crystals and have over 60% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win. If you win 3 crystals and have over 75% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win.) could help out with that.
But it's hard to decide what exactly these requirements would be. Would be nice to see more peoples opinion on this.
Also something to think about is why it happens that there is just one guild doing all the work on one team. Like, if the System were to change, and with that the mentality of the players, then there possibly won't be many cases where there is just "one guild doing everything" - but we can't say that for sure, as it is impossible to predict the players behavior with a different system. it also relies on what RNG decides which guild is on which team.
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i also completely agree that an already downed team doesn't have any hope of winning. You proposed that maybe 4 guilds on the winner side get rewarded, as well as 2 guilds of the loser side - and i think that's great
That also goes hand in hand with my personal problem, that the loser side never gets anything out of TW, no matter the effort because the side is just that disadvantageous - But that's just me. I mean, was there ever a case in history where the loser of a war got rewarded? But it would at least give the losing side still some hope and reason to fight.
- It's true that a random 1-2man guild shouldn't be able to win so something like only the top3 guilds on either side count into the total contribution might help. That would make it much less likely to happen. otherwise we'd have to rework the points gained by the Crystal-dps-system completely.
Now regarding your other idea to add more PvP for the weaker guilds.
First of all, i think it's better to make a seperate topic about that. Not because it doesn't belong here (it does, because it tackles the main Problems of TW too) but because it might get overlooked by the players if it is just a sub-topic and there could be much to discuss about like how exactly it should be implemented.
Anyway, i do have some things to talk about your idea, so i'll answer here first and might copy it in case you make a seperate thread:
i'm not completely against the idea as it does have some kind of reward for the contributing guilds in TW who don't win, but i do see some problems with that:-
You're basically rewarding PvP by doing even more PvP - which is the same as GvG (you get an allowance to enter by gaining points through doing arena and TW). A Reward - in my opinion, should be something that can be directly received by the players.
Like in GvG everyone in the guild gets a buff - directly influencing their stats and telling them "you did great last GvG!"
(GGB's too, but i'm kind of unsure how to put this. Because what we usually do is to send GGBs to whoever joined in GvG - regardless how much Arena/TW they did to get us into GvG. So it only rewards those who join GvG and not anything else so i'm not sure if GGBs motivate to do more TW than necessary. Of course we can change our way of distributing our GGBs (like giving some of them to the TW-players too who can't attend GvG), but no matter how i think about this, it would just be really complicated to calculate who deserves how many and if it would make actually a difference in TW-Activity.
I think it's better that the GvG participants get the boxes send to them directly by the Server. Then they know they got some because they participated - and not because the Guild's leader decided to let them have some - its a psychologial factor. but this also holds some problems - i don't want to talk about this as this is a different topic. Just wanted to explain the difference between getting a reward physically and directly versus indirectly and nothing to "grab").
An even better example is the TW-Reward. Members go to the Townsman and get a salary and reward boxes. This is something that they can "physically" grab as a reward because they did great in TW.
You could argue that gaining points to enter a different PvP mode is a reward too - but tbh i don't think anyone is constantly monitoring their points to enter GvG for example, so why would they for a different PvP mode?
Does it really change the "Mentality" of joining and fighting in TW?
Because to me it just seems like an incidental (is that the right word?) reward for those, who do TW anyway instead of an "Active Motivation" to be more tryhard in TW (which is what i want to accomplish).
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The Time. The PvP schedule is already quite full (depending on much arena you like to do). We in OwO love to do 10v10 Arena, pretty much 1/3 or even half of our active players regularly to 10v10. If you were to put another GuildArena/GvG-like PvP mode before TW, then people would have to decide whether they want to do arena or the new mode. (But could be nice for anyone else who doesn't care about 10v10 Arena - but there are lots of other good players from strong guilds who like to do 10v10 too). If you put it even earlier, then i guess lots of the americans can't participate because they are probably still at work. if you put it after TW then it would almsot become an American-exclusive Event because most of the Europeans will be in Bed (as this might be around midnight)
So depending on your timezone and Arena-likings/priority, is it an active motivation to try harder in TW? For some yes, for some probably not. it would certainly motivate me, but that all depends on which time it will be
please note that i don't make these statements to prevent a new PvP-Mode from coming. As i said, it's a good idea and it's always nice to have more options so you can do what you want. These are just some problems i wanted to point out.
In the End, it's okay if the current system stays at it as, as long as there is some kind of "physical" reward for those who contribute. Would be nice to also have the losing side get something in return too, to reward the attempt of not making it a one-sided stomp fest. I especially like the idea that something like the top4 of winner's Team and Top2 of Loser's team get some kind of currency to trade for PvP-Exclusive Items/Buffs/whatever, but it has to be worthwile while NOT encouraging players to always join the top Guilds for easy rewards.-
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Hello everyone, hope you’re having a great day!
So quite some time ago, a friend of mine suggested to revert the TW system back to what it was on lvl 60 cap (at least on the german server) in order to make it more motivating for weaker guilds to take part.
You can read the Thread here:Kibo also made another Thread formulating the Pro’s of this System very well.
However, there was a big gap between the People who are for this system, and those who are against it, for different reasons. But i recently got an Idea that might be able to please both sides.Disclaimers:
1. Before reading this post, please get an overview about this topic from the other Threads. This is probably crucial to better understand everyone commenting on this and prevent misunderstandings. i will try however to summarize everything important so everyone has the chance to take part in this discussion.
2. As the original Thread got closed due some players talking off-topic and started insulting each other (it is a really debateable topic tbh.). However, I kindly ask you to leave this thread if you don’t plan on talking about this constructively. There has been a lot of toxicity lately in the forums and i don’t want this discussion to be closed again because some players can‘t get a hold of themselves.
3. I’m not a fan of that only one guild gets to win a territory – Because TW actually seems like to be some kind of Team-Effort of the different guilds being on either the red or blue faction. But changing that is probably a big hurdle, so instead i tried to simply merge the good sides of either System, so it doesn’t differ too much from the classic feeling.
First, i will give you a quick summary of both the Point-Based-TW (which is the one we currently have on both the Awaken and the Classic Server) and the very old %-Based-TW.
(Note: if you are familiar with the current TW and read the original Thread about the %-Based - You can jump to „the Points-%-Mixed-TW“)
The Point-Based TW
As said, this is the one most of the players should be familiar with. The Guilds try to cap the Crystals, which gives them points based on the Rank you achieved by dealing the most damage to it.
1st place gets 200 pts
2nd Place gets 180pts
3rd Place gets 160 pts
4th place gets 140 pts (Correct me if i’m wrong)
In Addition to that, a guild gets rewarded with 1 point per Kill (not counting killing the same enemy multiple times)
In the End, the Guild that was able to achieve the most amount of Points wins the War and gets the territory.
However, i personally see a huge problem with that. Guilds have to work together in one Faction in order to repel the Enemies from the capped Crystals – but that one guild, that got the most points is the overall winner, completely ignoring all the efforts of the other guilds, that helped this faction to win.
So this TW is really frustrating for smaller or medium sized guilds, that might be able to get a really solid 10-man party that plays an important role when fighting for the faction .
I remember a while back, when we in OwO-Guild had 3x most Damage at crystals with well equipped Crystal-DPS, but we just couldn’t keep up with the kills that other guilds got because they had triple the amount of players. If this happens regularly to you, then it becomes really frustrating and i’m currently sensing a big loss of PvP activity because there is never really a point in trying to win for us and guilds with a similar problem.
This Problem sparked the Idea of reverting the current TW-System to what it was in the very beginning.The %-Based-TW
As seen in the videos in the original Thread, you can see that up to 3 guilds get an 8,3% Chance each of winning the territory for every Crystal that was capped. (25% per Crystal, splitting up to 3x 8,3% for the guilds that dealt the most Damage).
So a strong guild, that deals damage to the crystals and got all 4 crystals for their faction, gets a total amount of 33,2% Chance of winning the territory. (Please watch the video for better understanding).
(Example: So if lets say the red faction with Guild A,B,C,D capped all crystals. On 3 Crystals the guild A,B and C Dealt the most damage while on the forth Crystals Guild A,B and D dealt the most damage. That means that Guild A and B have a 4x 8,3% of Winning – 33,2% each in Total; Guild C has a 3x 8,3% Chance, so around 25% in Total; and Guild D has a 1x 8,3% Chance to win the territory.
So regardless if you have „THE MOST“ Damage on the Crystal, and regardless of the amount of kills your Guild got, there is just a -Chance- at winning the Territory for your Guild.)
And that started a huge controversy. Because that could mean that a 1-player-Guild can easily get a Territory if they just deal enough Damage to the Crystals.
That could also mean that the Losing side can actually win if they manage to cap and defend one Crystal (Which is actually awesome in my opinion).
So, yesterday i came up with an Idea that includes both TW-Systems; Let me Explain:
- - - - - This is the actual suggestion - - - - -
The Points-%-Mixed-TW(This is just an example to explain the logic)
So, we keep the Point-Based TW as it is – meaning Crystals DMG gives lots of Points depending on most, second-most, third-most and fourth-most Damage. We also keep the System that 1 kill gives 1 point (not counting the same person)
The Change i’d like to suggest it that after TW ends, The Points of both sides get accumulated.In This Example the Red Faction gets 479+204+184+182+160+149 Points
Team Red Points: 1358
Team Blue Points: 485+241+2 = 728
After the Points have been added, the Winning Side will be decided by which side has more Points. In This Case Team Red. It’s important to know which „Side“ wins because only the winning side gets sent additional Chests that contain Warstones (1 for Winning, 1 per Crystal that you – as an individual player – hit and 1 for each „sword“ above your heard due to the amount of kills you achieved)
(i’m Btw not a Fan that the losing side didnt get anything for the efforts – but thats how it is)
Now, which guild gets the territory?
This is where i want to include the %-Based TW. After the Total Amount of Points are calculated, Each Guild, that contributed to this Number, gets a % of getting the Territory. So if Red Wins, and Red got 1358 (=100%) Points, then the Chance of getting the Territory is the following:
NoFear: 35,27% (479/1358)
BloodTears: 15,02% (204/1358)
Celestial: 13,55% (184/1358)
… And so on, you get the point.
So, whats to great about this mixed System?
I think this is great as it motivates even smaller guilds to participate because there is a chance for them to win too even if they are not the best of the best. It also rewards the strong guilds because with most damage and lots of kills, their chance of winning is significantly higher.
I also think that this System makes the guilds to take the fight from the start until the very end serious because every single kill counts as it adds to their % of winning. (You can’t really say the same about stomping-TWs where you are pretty much done for if you dont have most Damage, or Shura Map where usually just the last 5-10mins count)
Summary:
IMO TW is not really about actually getting the territory (right now you get like 40G per Day per Territory at lvl 60 – you can get the same amount of Gold by farming in Highlands in just 1/10 of the Time if you count in preperation Time like Event Buffs and banquets)
The Chest you get from the Townsman is also not really that worth it as it usually just containt 3,6 oder 18 CCM and sometimes like 1-2 Warstones
So What exactly is the reward for Winning TW? Participating and winning TW is just about Fun and Honor – having your Guild’s Name displayed at the end, and thus getting appreciation and attention. And Thats completely fine. However, i think that TW is a Team-based Effort of all Guilds on one Faction, but it doesn’t feel like that at all.
Point-Based-TW:
Pros:- strong guilds WILL get rewarded because they will always win if they did enough dmg and kills
Cons:
- Always the same 3-4 Guilds will win the TW – it’s frustrating for weaker guilds, even when they contributed to the Victory (because maybe the Strong guild wouldn’t even have won without the help of the smaller guilds to defend crystals)
- Guilds within one team fight „Each other“ (like letting Belk die to hopefully let the Rays destroy a crystal so a guild has another Chance of getting most-damage if they didn’t had that before)
%-Based-TW
Pros:- almost every Guild has a chance of Winning, motivating weaker guilds to at least try - making pvp more active in the long run
Cons:
- almost every Guild has a chance of Winning (even 1-man-guilds by just doing damage to crystals). It might feel unfair to those, who prepared very well and lose the war because of RNG
Debateable:
- A guild from the Losing side has the chance of winning
Mixed-Based-TW:
Pros:- Every Guild tries to do their best as they have a chance of winning
- even if they don’t get the Territory necessarily – it at least feels much more rewarding because that your Faction won is thanks to your guild too (because you contributed with your points to the total amount)
- Players fight from start to finish because every Damaged Crystal and every single kill Counts
- Stronger Guilds are more likely to win compared to smaller guilds – showing their „superiority“ if you want to say it like that
Cons:
- the Winning of a Territory is RNG in the End – however – if you really want to show everyone that your Guild is the best, then do so in GvG as this is a much better fitting place to show your strength. TW imo is a team-based effort and i don’t think it is suited to display the „best guild“ but rather the „best guilds“ working together, simply assigning a Territory to one of its contributors – which isn’t that big of a deal (40g and a chest of CCM…)
I put much more effort in this Topic than for my university this whole week...
I Hope you appreciate it and aren’t too overwhelmed by the amount of Text. I really want to see your Opinions about this because i think that can hugely affect the activity and the Way of Thinking about TW.
Let me know if you see any Problems which i might have missed (for example, only let the top5 or 6 guilds per Faction be listed in the Contribution to prevent 1-man-guilds of winning for barely any effort [Because Crystaldmg gives lots of points])-
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Okay so i tried recreating your Tests on the awakened Server on normal Class Sakura.
For the Engineer I used the lvl 75 Mcritd Light Armor and a lvl 120% +14 Gun with Temple Knight Accessories.
For the Mage i used the lvl 75 Mcritd Cloth Armor and a lvl 120% +14 Staff with Temple Knight Accessories.1. Test: MDPS Engi vs 70 Fire Resist
So in this first Picture you can see my Mdps Engineer attacking a Templar with 70 Fire Resist. SuperIronMan is active(as well as some other buffs) letting me deal 17,5k Initial Damage with a Bonus of 6k Dmg due to the Oilbomb setup. So a total amount of 23,5k Damage.
2. Test: MDPS Engi vs 34 Fire Resist
After Factoring in some Elemental Reduce (2x lvl 60 Mdps Ring and maybe a Heaven Fire Ring or Neondo T60 Trophy) the Templar should have around 35 Fire Resist instead of 70. we simulated this by removing the VL/DD Trophycombination, the Trophyenchants and the Whirlpool Cape:
in this second Picture we see my mdps Engi and the Templar with 34 Fire Resist. SuperIronMan is in effect - Enabling me to deal 33k Initial Dmg with a little Bonus of 11k by the oilbomb setup. That's 45k Damage - "Well that's a lot of Damage!"
However, lets compare this with an equally well equipped Mage;
3. Test - Comparison with a Mage
in this picture the Templar also has 34 Ice Resist. so the same as the fire resist when testing with the mdps Engi. Here the Mage does 39k Damage which... Is less then the Engineer? Yes. but only by a very small amount, and remember: The Engineer needs SuperIronMan AND Oilbomb Setup to deal equally as much damage as a Mage does with every single cast not being reliant on any buffs or setup at all.
Result:
Just like Jordan said; the Class could be usable in PvP but it's too reliant on the buffs and oilbomb setup making it inefficient or even unusable as your oilbomb can be cleansed and your SuperIronMan be removed or interrupted by enemy hits when buffing.
Oh and another Idea; Why does the immobilize Skill from Slime Bomb get removed when the Enemy is attacked, but Snowstorm does not? It's just a much weaker version (though instead of buffing Slime Bomb, i'd rather have Snowstorm nerfed with that Immobilize skill as the Mage already has enough options against Melee attackers...)-
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Yes i understand now. I guess i was myself a little bit distracted because of all the off-topic stuff here...
But yeah, i think nerfing SuperIronMan and buffing the initial damage somehow to let a mdps engi deal more consistent dmg rather than short and buff-reliant burst dmg is a better way of thinking.
I know that there are some other priorities right now (Weapon%System, releasing Content on Classic and Awa and other Classes that are in need of a rework) but i really hope we can come back to this and in the meantime, gather some more ideas and possibilities make mdps great again (or rather, for the first time...
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I'd love to see some other Peoples opinion here about the mdps Engineer.
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4 minutes ago, Jordan said:
So say we do your changes we give it more M-ATK and reduce the cooldown of the skill. What happens at 70 Cap when the 70 Double DMG gun comes?
I guess the same that will happen when the lvl 70 staff or lvl 75 Awakened staff with double Dmg comes? And Mage is by far more of a candidat to surpass any M-Atk thresholds - making DPS Cleric and Mage the only option if you want to achieve something in PvP.
Don't understand me wrong with all of my ideas. It's not my goal to make MDPS Engi the new mage. It's just soooo lackluster compared to other options and i wanted this thread to gather some ideas on how to solve it and make the Mdps Engi a fun and valid playstyle - as he already offers these skills. I'd be even fine with removing the SuperIronMan Buff and just increase the dmg output somehow (either skill dmg, or more Matk on Guns, or Matk Bonus when in Mecha-state - whatever ideas there might be). I solely made the above suggestions because i think they are rather easy to implement without reworking the whole class or removing/adding skills. I even said myself that adding all of it is probably a bad idea and it would then be too broken.
Those were just Suggestions and i'd be happy now to read some more actual suggestions rather than complaining or justifying why some ideas are necessary/not ideal or talking Off-topic every second post...
another idea which just came by reading your post Jordan;
Maybe decrease the dmg buff of SuperIronMan to like 30 or 50% (and not double-dmg) and instead increase base dmg so its not solely reliant on that single buff -
Oof, there's a lot of things i want to point out now after reading all that.
This is a suggestions Thread can we handle it like that?
Okay so first of all, lots of players are probably denying changes as it is not "classic", however, if you look up the actual meaning of "Classic" - judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/classic
So it does NOT mean "old" or "what it used to be" at all. Just as Tuti said, there are things on eden that could be improved (like the upcoming Weapon%System) to make the game the best as it can be. I personally welcome any changes that make this game even better, even if it is not the same than what i played 7 years ago.
Now to some statements made here;1 hour ago, Jordan said:its just a lot harder to make it work in PvP and inefficient to do so
Yes, it is hard to gear an mdps and make it work - i tried it on normal class TW on awa server, and a friend of mine tried to build it now in the lvl 60 cap. You need to get high Cast dps, Mcritdmg, mcritr and Matk. If you are going all out to build a mdps engi then you'd have to build it only for the engineer. It needs a set for its own, a weapon with certain fortifications which are a waste for a pdps Engi (talking about mcritd, mcritr, etc.) and certain points in the skilltree to somehow make it work. If you do all of that, then you could expect it to be useful. And that's the problem. Even if you get everything perfectly done, it still gets outshined by any halfway-decently equipped Mage. Putting the effort into it is just not worth it, killing the variety everyone praises here...
1 hour ago, Jordan said:I think even if we where going to start reworking classes which we likely wouldn't. Why would we target a class like Engieer
Nobody here ever said that the shaman doesn't need a buff? This Thread was made for the Engineer to gather some suggestions. So of course there are just suggestions for this one. I personally don't play heal, but i'd like to make the mdps engi work, which is why i'm posting here...
1 hour ago, Jordan said:As for the topic buffing super iron man is a bad idea, basically just saying lets make bulwalk from Awaken Engineer on classic.
It's not comparable to the Bulwark from Mecha as the mdps Engi has by far not the inital dmg output from the mecha. much much less Matk, no Glyph that further increases the Matk and you also don't have rockets flying around you dealing free damage for doing basically nothing. (meaning the Mp-drain skill here)
I tested this class on Normal class TW with a 120% Gun, lvl 75 Mcritd Set and full Temple Knight Accessories. If i remember correctly, then i did like 23-27k Dmg (WITH Super iron Man Buff active) onto the enemy, compared to a 35-40k Snowstorm from an equally well equipped mage. (and you can be sure that the enemie preferred to build Ice Resist rather than Fire...)1 hour ago, Jordan said:Making it a place AoE likely doesn't change anything, might benefit you and your playstyle but will equally hurt someone else and their placestyle as I always find that target AoE and place AoE doesn't really change anything and always just a matter of preference
But... the same thing has been done with the Samurai and Bard AOE after some people were requesting it. So why is it such a problem now?
2 hours ago, Jordan said:Tiny M-ATK buff or a big M-ATK buff wouldn't matter to much.
Combined with:
2 hours ago, Jordan said:You'd always need to nerf/remove Super Iron Man in order to buff the other areas
So does it matter now or not? Maybe i misunderstood what you we're saying here.
2 hours ago, Jordan said:I've spent a lot of time balancing this game and although not everyone agrees with my choice I think I know balancing pretty well at this point to be able to tell you how to correctly balance it.
idk how to feel about this. I'd love to say the same, but seeing that every good Party in TW always consists of 4 mages/DPS Clerics, 2-3 Heal Clerics, 1 bard and 1 Debuffer/CCer like Illu, MA or Hunter etc. So clearly there are some classes that are much better than others in pvp.
But the Mdps engineer is neither good in pvp nor Pve i feel. you can't really run with it as you have to stay in place to cast your skills so you can't really run with it unless you have reaaally high evasion and cast spd stats. (not saying its impossible- as one can see in the video from naru). Regarding PvP - you've said yourself that it is ineffecient and like i said, it's nowhere near to be comparable to other overused classes in Pvp.
So after all this; i want to make it short. I think that a little Matk boost and a cooldown reduce of like 20sec on SuperIronMan would be enough to make a mdps engineer somewhat useable.
I never said that engineer is a bad class. it definitely has its uses as a low-requirement early and late game runner, as well as some good single target dmg skills as PDPS - The reason i posted this, is that i want the MDPS skills to have the right to exist as they are completely underused due to the problems stated here. It's just a gimmick rather than an actual playstyle,and so i think this could need an improvement.-
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Can we get back to the topic of a possible rework of the mdps engineer?
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Thank god, there are other players thinking that the MDPS Engineer desperately needs a rework.
Back in the days, when i played Normal Class TW actively on the awakened server, i really tried making a MPDS Engineer viable... it failed miserably... barely dealing half as much dmg as an equally well equipped mage even with the double dmg from Iron Super Man buff.
I agree with some of your opinions, but i have to correct something you wrote there;
The multi dmg from having oilbomb on the enemy is not a triple hit. It is a double Hit with ~130% dmg as you can see here: (And yes, the oilbomb setup does NOT increase the base dmg. It only adds the doublehit effect)
it might be actually an idea to make this skill a triplehit instead of a 130% doublehit. To make the oilbomb setup worth it. otherwise instead of oilbomb with low dmg because you were going for mdps, you're probably better off with just spamming your mdps skills.
Now to the ideas to make this build at least somewhat viable:2 hours ago, naru said:Give the iron superman buff more duration than 30 sec cuz the cooldown even with glyph is 1:10 min which means you can only be abit usefull all 40 seconds.
Yes. the Buff is absolute necessary to deal at least a little bit of damage. Without it, the damage is just laughable. Either increase the active timespan or decrease the cooldown. (Even with the Glyph the downtime is too big, just as naru said)
2 hours ago, naru said:Make black explosive and Oilbomb like the Bard aoe/Mage aoe/Cleric aoe setable so you dont run after your targets and interrupt your cast
Haven't thought about this one, its a good idea. (Can we do the same with the mdps skill from hunter?)
Some ideas i'd like to add:
1. Add an Matk bonus to the armor
could be similar to the Mecha on Awakened Server. The one thing the MDPS Engi is lacking is some actual MATK. And since Guns have so low matk, its hard to deal some juicy damage numbers. The base Damage from the skills simply does not compensate the lack of matk (ofc you can use Matk Proc trophies, tho i still feel its too weak even with, and you'd basically be reliant on the Buff AND Trophyprocs to deal damage)2. Make the Mdps skills instacast (or at least Black Explosives)
instead of boosting the damage of the engineer, give it more mobility by removing the cast time on the skills.
Tho i fear that this would make the engineer too strong in combination with any of the other ideas. it would just be Mecha Ares2.0 in Classic, and we don't want that...please note that adding all of the ideas would make the class too broken - i just wanted to state some ideas to make the engineer with this unique skillset a valid option to build for.
Overall i'd really love to some actually use in this unique class that could be played as dps, mdps or even hybrid. Not solely for running...-
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Increasing the amount of entries for Trials has been a suggestion right from the start of the server. However i do not think it is a good idea.
Players suggested to increase the trialcap because it would take a huge amount of time to get good %-weapons with only 3 runs/day. And that is true. The droprate of golden weapons is already quite low (which is not bad necessarily) but also getting them with High % makes farming trials more of a chore than it is fun. So players have been suggesting to increase the amount of Trialentries to something like 10 entries per trial per day. But i think this would actually hurt the server and i want to explain why:
so the lvl 60 Cap will bring 5 Trials. Lets say players need about 10-30mins to finish one run depending on gear and party. That means already that you have to spend 1,5hrs up to 5hrs to complete 0/10 runs on a single trial. Not even Talking about doing the runs on any other trial. People will spend all their free time to farm the trials they need just to get their gear, not having time for anything else, because you really want to max out your 0/10 potential for each trial.Keeping the 0/3 entries allows them do maximise their potential runs while still having time to do lower Trials for trophies/accessories/blueprints, queueing for Arena, farming gold or helping friends and guildmates.
But getting good Weapons will take way too long then? - right, that is why i also suggested in the Weapon-% Thread to add a Improve-Weapon%-System similar to the rerolling System on the awakened server. i kindly ask you to read it here for better understanding of this post:So the main reason i don't like the idea of increasing the trialcap is, that players won't spend time on any other aspect of the game.
Arenas might not open because people are busy farming their trials. Players may have to decide to do either trials OR farming gold because there won't be time to do both. Players probably won't do trials that they personally don't need, because they are exhausted after already doing 10 times a trial for themselves.
Getting the weapon you desire only brings short joy because it'll soon be "normal" to just possess it. But in the end, I rather want to feel satisfied, knowing, that i have maxed out my todays potential (e.g. capping all Trials at 0/3, farmed my gold and also did some arena for honor stars and fun).
And even if i didn't get what i wanted for this day, i know i will have the chance to get it the next day, without feeling forced to do anything besides the one or two specific trials - not having time for anything else.
Another thing i want you to understand, is this:
(Keep in mind that i mean this by thinking a rerolling system will be implemented)
Keeping the 120%-Weapon system while increasing the trialcap will have pretty much the same effect as keeping the current 0/3 Trialcap but with 100% Weapons - Players will get their gear much quickerThe main reason the devs don't want to switch back to the 100% Weapon System is, that it's too easy and quick to get the desired gear. So why increase the trialcap if it has the same effect, but will also negatively influence other aspects of the game?
TL;DR I think the best, that can happen to this server is keeping the Weapon-%-System with a relatively low Trialcap (like 3, not more than 5) but also implementing an increase-Weapon%-System.
This way players...
... have time to enjoy different aspects of the game and don't feel forced to do the same thing the whole time and every day
... don't get their gear too easily/quickly
... have the chance to maximise their gear in a reasonable amount of time
while giving the Devs the ability to regulate how hard it is or how much time it takes to maximise a classes gear by increasing/decreasing the requirements for rerolling without having to change anything else on the server
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So we all know that compromising between different timezones is a big issue on this server.
I know this has been discussed for quite some time now, for the awakened Server as well as the upcoming Classic Server, but I have been playing this game for years now (German Server, US Server, Vendetta and i‘ll play classic too) and am really passionate about this.
PvP is one of the main reasons that keeps me tied to the game, however, it‘s really a bummer to know that I can rarely participate in important GvG battles due to my timezone so i‘d like to give some suggestions and present you the view of PvP of a european player – so I and my european fellows can hopefully really invest ourselves into the Classic Server.
I'll come to the actual suggestions later on, first, let me state some facts.
I‘m using the current PvP Times of the Awaken Server to give an insight because that‘s what we‘re used to at the moment.So the current PvP Timezones are:
(I chose Server for American because… Server…, Germany for Europe since that‘s where i come from and it‘s pretty much in the middle of Europe, and Hongkong for Asia – all these are just a reference to get a rough overview)all of these Timezones are 6hrs from each other apart. (You can doublecheck here: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock)
For Normal Class TW:
- American Timezone (Server): 16:00
- European Timezone (Germany): 22:00
- Asian Timezone (Hongkong): 04:00
(For Awaken TW:
- American Timezone (Server): 18:00
- European Timezone (Germany): 00:00
- Asian Timezone (Hongkong): 06:00)
I do like that the TW on the Classic server will be the same as the current Normal Class TW on the awakened server – as Jordan said in the General Discussion – PvP Times Thread („...That being said the current TW time will be the same time as a the current server normal class TW which is early enough...“ ).
This is a great compromise for both american and european players for TW, in my opinion. At 16:00 the americant should be home from work/school and it's still early enough for europeans to take part without losing too much sleep.
i don't know if there are any decisions about when GvG will be, but before you decide, let me show you this:
For GvG
1. Battle: Saturday- same as Normal Class TW
2. Battle: Saturday
- American Timezone (Server): 20:00
- European Timezone (Germany): 02:00 (Sunday)
- Asian Timezone (Hongkong): 08:00 (Sunday)
3. Battle: Sunday
- same as Normal Class TW
4. Battle: Sunday
- American Timezone (Server): 20:00
- European Timezone (Germany): 02:00 (Monday)
- Asian Timezone (Hongkong): 08:00 (Monday)
As things stand now, it seems to be impossible for Asian players to take part in neither TW nor any GvG Battle. But that‘s not the GM‘s fault. Just what i said in the beginning; you can‘t combine 3 different timezones in one server…
That might also be a reason why there seem to be so few asian players. (Please please correct me here if i‘m wrong, but so far i haven‘t met a single asian Player)
however, if we take both american and european timezones into consideration – i do think that a good compromise is possible.So far it has been hard for european players to enter 2nd and 4th GvG Battle.
- The 2nd is barely manageable with 02:00 on Sunday.
- The 4th is almost impossible for everyone who is a student or has to work since it‘s at 02:00 on Monday.
So after seeing some specific times for the different regions above, i got the following question:
Would it really hurt the american playerbase if we do the GvG ~4hrs earlier than on the awakened Server?
(Maybe even 5 hrs earlier so they don‘t overlay with the GvG times on the awakened Server)In this case, their GvG fights would be at 12:00 and 16:00 during the weekends – whichs seems easily possible to me.
While also making it much much more accessible to the european players. (!)
This would exclude asian players even more, however – they probably can‘t even come as things are now. If you are an asian player, or know one, please feel free to comment on the suggestion too and tell me, how it would affect you.
I think that, with the fresh start of a new server, as well as being a bit more accomodating towards the european playerbase in TW and GvG, this is a great opportunity to establish and grow the european community while also being able to keep the american audience.
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I actually like the idea of percentage-based TW too.
Stronger guilds will have higher chances of winning, while at the same time, the chance for smaller guilds isn't completely robbed like it is currently.
If I was at a ~24% Chance winning side, I wouldn't mind losing a territory with a like 8% chance to the losing side if they are able to cap and defend a crystal until the end.
If they can manage to do that, they probably deserve it anyway tbh. And it's just an 8% chance from what i see in the video as opposed to the ~24% chance of the winning side.
So the better Guilds will have -statistically- still more territories while weaker guilds get the -small- chance to win and thus have motivation to actually take part and try.-
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Add a Gem Merchant for lvl 4 Gems
in Suggestions
Posted
Yes you are right, but i guess people didn't care about that too much at that time mainly because it was not worth sacrificing important stats like mcritr and such for a mere 3 Resistances because gaining the stats was actually rather hard on lvl 60? Idk, but i do know that only very few people actually used Resist gems in lvl 60 (And i'm stalking a LOT of players equipment)
I'm not a fan of the "It's not classic" arguement at all because - again - 120% Weapon system for example isn't classic either. Even though it does not make a lot of difference on Damage (~1-2k dmg more than a 100% weapon from Jordan's Testing https://imgur.com/trQOCVL) i do think that having the higher resistance-gems is a nice opportunity to make up for that.
I mean, it doesn't really change the gameplay at all, does it? Illu will still be S-Tier for pvp, so will Ranger, Mage and DPS Cleric - no matter if you have max resistances against those damage types or not.
Because they are not only played because of their Damage output, but also - and mainly - because of their Skillset.
in the end, i do realize that pretty much all commentors here are against it, and the only reasons that speaks for the release of the gem merchant imo are
1. The Gems are lvl 65, so they should be available in the lvl 65 cap. if they are too OP, then they should be lvl 75 and not 65...
2. It "looks" better? Using lvl 55 Gems in a lvl 65 armor, when you know that there sometime will be lvl 65 gems, is wasted potential in my eyes and doesn't really feel satsifying.
@Jordan
Anyway, I just want to suggest that if they actually were to be released for lvl 65 Cap, then it should be either with the upcoming Patch that brings Trials and lvl 65 Armor or never within in this cap, because people will start gemming their armor and would be upset if the merchant does come before lvl 70. (or if it does come at a later point within the lvl 65 cap, at least make an announcement so people don't waste their lvl 3 Gems)