SenorBernd

2 Requests

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Ello UwU

1. Bring back the good old % on Crystals in TW. Nothing was more fun than seeing a map go to a guild that was a bit weaker. With that system every "good player" had (even if it was only 8%, it was at least) a chance to win. Also i think it had more motivation to actually FIGHT and not give up after 1 side stomped, because the chance was there ALL THE TIME and FOR EVERYONE. To this day i still don't get why they ever replaced it with that shitty points system.

2. Bring back endless dungeon grinds? Sure thing the game needs some sort of control of currency but i never thought just locking farmruns behind 0/10 a day was a good idea.

 

Thanks ^-^

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I don't ever remember this system. Is there any content on youtube or old screenshots you could show me so I could see.

For beta 0/10 is here but for the future this can be lifted maybe. I don't think we'd ever add limitless back just because it ended up being a bit of a bot fest if I remember correctly.

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Just now, Misty said:

Hi, personally I would agree to unlimited dungeons like the old Eden.

This will break the game in little time. 9 years ago more or less on cap60 this was already a issue now imagine with today's tools(bots).

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This was part of territory wars 1.0 where it was who ever was defending the territory vs the server and the only thing that mattered was capturing all the crystals. This is a very bad format and works in a similar way to how the points system works except kills are now a factor which is much better. With this system how does the game determind who wins a 2 crystal to 2 crystal TW?

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I actually found a video, god bless. It's in german but it's just a show-around basically. 

 

 

So basically each crystal yielded 8.3% to the 3 best performing Guilds, making a 3 guild 33% situation possible.

But it also makes a situation like seen in the video possible, where 9 guilds have some % but just with little chances.

In my eyes it was the most fair and balanced system they ever had. The side didn't matter btw.. If one side was able to hold one crystal they had a SMALL(only 8.3%) but FAIR chance to win the map.

Crystals were very heavyly HP'd as you can see so sniping crystals was kinda possible but not easily unnoticed.

 

Here is another less laggy video but way worse quality

 

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Quit this game long time ago. The system i remember was: Every guild that made damage to the crystal had chance to capture the territory.

No idea how the system behind it was since memory is tricky but this was a very fair system back then since small guilds could get territory in a equal manner to big guilds.

But we're talking about a private server that won't have the same p2w factor that we had on aeria server back then where all whales gathered on 2 guilds making impossible for small guilds to get a territory unless both got their territories first.

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22 minutes ago, Jordan said:

This was part of territory wars 1.0 where it was who ever was defending the territory vs the server

No. As far as we remember it was just random back then.

22 minutes ago, Jordan said:

This is a very bad format and works in a similar way to how the points system works except kills are now a factor which is much better.

I don't know, the system right now is just "the strongest guild wins everything and stomps everything" which is kinda fair yeah, but also makes people have WAY less interest. TW's back then were active as heck because literally EVERYONE had a fair chance to win, if only a small one. Maybe we have very different points of view on this, but i also think kills should be a helping hand TO win(as in kill them and take over the crystals) and not a winning factor itself.

22 minutes ago, Jordan said:

With this system how does the game determind who wins a 2 crystal to 2 crystal TW?

The % you reached at the end was the % chance to win the map, no matter the side.

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I would also support the old percentage system for the territory war, as this would be a good contribution to guild diversity. Every guild has a chance of winning the territory war. You can see in the videos that there are 9 Guilds that have a chance of winning the territory, in contrast to the current Vendetta Server where it's super dependet on the side that you are on and that there are technically only two guilds that have a "real" chance to win, and only if these two guilds have their three territorys, other guilds will get a chance to win. 

For the 0/10 System I would suggest adding the unlimited version in, as for the concern of bots I think that with the current captcha system that we have on the main server we have a good protection against this. 

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I dont know if I'd really consider this a fair system to be honest. I'm some what of a top end competator in my prime of Eden and I'm not sure about anyone else but I'd be pretty cheesed if I was winning a TW and put in effort and then the territory goes to some random guild with 2 people who just hit the crystal a few times.

Like idk if its just me but I just don't really understand how winning a pvp match that you tried hard to win should be left up to a random number generator after all is said and done. Like you dont queue arena and win 3 rounds and hope that you win the match because they won a around so you have 75% chance to win and they have a 25% chance to win.

To me it just feels a bit odd that people would like this? I could see the appeal for a lower end guild wanting this since they're not a top tier competator and they don't really have a chance to win over the top end guilds but I feel like thats kinda the point right, a top end guild builds to a point so they can win.

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10 minutes ago, Jordan said:

I dont know if I'd really consider this a fair system to be honest. I'm some what of a top end competator in my prime of Eden and I'm not sure about anyone else but I'd be pretty cheesed if I was winning a TW and put in effort and then the territory goes to some random guild with 2 people who just hit the crystal a few times.

Like idk if its just me but I just don't really understand how winning a pvp match that you tried hard to win should be left up to a random number generator after all is said and done. Like you dont queue arena and win 3 rounds and hope that you win the match because they won a around so you have 75% chance to win and they have a 25% chance to win.

To me it just feels a bit odd that people would like this? I could see the appeal for a lower end guild wanting this since they're not a top tier competator and they don't really have a chance to win over the top end guilds but I feel like thats kinda the point right, a top end guild builds to a point so they can win.

Once everyone wants to be in the top, it gives less room for people who want to build something. EEClassic will start now, but people who reach the server late will have to fight a bunch of 30+ dudes with gears, and win against that. Whoever wants to build a guild will have to stick to PVE only until they have roughly equal numbers and gears or maybe more. Until then, it's dead PVP. That's what happens in EEAwaken (Even with increased rates that makes reaching "the top" easier), hence why most of the TWs are stompfests with 1 or 2 guilds hopping in there.

I agree with the % for the sake of having smaller guilds with dudes taking part on it, and being happy with their guild names being shout at the world. It helps them grow, and helps the server too.

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25 minutes ago, Jordan said:

I'd be pretty cheesed if I was winning a TW and put in effort and then the territory goes to some random guild with 2 people who just hit the crystal a few times.

Like idk if its just me but I just don't really understand how winning a pvp match that you tried hard to win should be left up to a random number generator after all is said and done.

Maybe my look at it is wrong, but i'd say likely yours is. People say right now the TWs are just stompfests(and let's be real, they have been most of the time on this server. With the current system you will always have 1 or at max 2 guilds actively playing TW and stomping everything. I myself quit a while ago but back then i and others simply lost interest in doing TW at all because it was just lame as fuck to simply have no enemies at all or get completely stomped, do quest and leave. The old system made EVERYONE able to participate thus bringing tons of life to TW.

The System made each top 3 guilds on crystals get %, with many more people participating you will have many more guilds. Also less presure for people to only join top guilds. It literally only has benefits. Sure there will be times where people go "omg this trash ass guild got the map with 8%" but that's what makes it even more fun. 

Maybe some people that currently are actively playing TW can elaborate some more on the participation point.

25 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Like you dont queue arena and win 3 rounds and hope that you win the match because they won a around so you have 75% chance to win and they have a 25% chance to win.

I think you can't really compare that as it's 2 whole different things.

25 minutes ago, Jordan said:

I could see the appeal for a lower end guild wanting this since they're not a top tier competator and they don't really have a chance to win over the top end guilds but I feel like thats kinda the point right, a top end guild builds to a point so they can win.

And that's where i come back to my main point. That is true to a certain point but makes every other person lose interest super fast. Some diversity and difference makes the competition lively and active instead of having the same 2 guilds all the time(i don't know if you still need to adjust it manually per hand or whatever you do right now to keep up at least a bit of balance).

 

I mean if you consider trying it, you can still change it up as much as you want right. Like if you want to balance it more towards the top DPS on each crystals change the % everyone else gets or something.

Don't underestimate your "casual" audience(not even casual for real, maybe just people that do actively play and want to do TW but simply don't have the resources/time to put into grinding classes/gear as much).

 

I could elaborate myself for tons of hours more but i'll stop here for now and reply to questions/answers as they may come up ^^ I think i sold my main point, sorry for potential bad grammar at times, not native.

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I actually like the idea of percentage-based TW too.

Stronger guilds will have higher chances of winning, while at the same time, the chance for smaller guilds isn't completely robbed like it is currently.

If I was at a ~24% Chance winning side, I wouldn't mind losing a territory with a like 8% chance to the losing side if they are able to cap and defend a crystal until the end.
If they can manage to do that, they probably deserve it anyway tbh. And it's just an 8% chance from what i see in the video as opposed to the ~24% chance of the winning side.


So the better Guilds will have -statistically- still more territories while weaker guilds get the -small- chance to win and thus have motivation to actually take part and try.

 

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So I also want to elaborate a bit on my point of "guild diversity". In the current situation you have two choices when it comes to the territory war: Join one of the two big guilds, or don't do PvP at all (as PvP currently is only TW, let's be honest TW and Guild war are the only PvP that still exists, arena is completely dead).

Just like SenorBernd said, the current TW is a stompfest. Either you are on a side with 50 people, or 5 people. With the percentage system, there would be motivation for smaller guilds to join the TW. And you don't need to be in a big guild to have good gear. There are many people on the server that have REALLY good gear, and are in small guilds. People like this will never have a chance to win a TW, just because they are lacking the manpower, they will just get overrun and I can get why there are people who don't want to join a big guild with a lot of members, however it currently isn't possible to do anything PvP related while you are in a small guild. 

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7 minutes ago, Reikan said:

Once everyone wants to be in the top, it gives less room for people who want to build something. EEClassic will start now, but people who reach the server late will have to fight a bunch of 30+ dudes with gears, and win against that. Whoever wants to build a guild will have to stick to PVE only until they have roughly equal numbers and gears or maybe more. Until then, it's dead PVP. That's what happens in EEAwaken (Even with increased rates that makes reaching "the top" easier), hence why most of the TWs are stompfests with 1 or 2 guilds hopping in there.

I agree with the % for the sake of having smaller guilds with dudes taking part on it, and being happy with their guild names being shout at the world. It helps them grow, and helps the server too.

Yes but the same arguement said could be pointed for the veteran players with gears no? Like think about it. If I spend months perfecting my build experimenting and I made a guild that can compete with top players. Then some random guild who you've never heard off is just 1 players from a top guild who got kicked or something runs into tw hits the crystal a couple times gets a small % and wins the entire thing. Wouldn't that honestly make you demotivated to try? Like your guild is small so I get it for you guys you'd appreciate a system like this where you can participate and still have a chance to win. But how about the people who attend TW every day to win, the people who grind hard to get to the position they're in and what they lose because RNG didn't roll in their favour? To me it just seems daft and out dated. Sure I can understand how on TW 1.0 with the Defenders vs Attackers I can see how this system could work. However, there is a reason this was changed and I feel like unless I'm missing some big picture the only people this hurts are the players who play actively every week for years just to benefit the underdogs who are lets face it in 90% of cases casual players who only attend for a bit of fun and not really to win.

 

4 minutes ago, SenorBernd said:

Maybe my look at it is wrong, but i'd say likely yours is. With the current system you will always have 1 or at max 2 guilds actively playing TW and stomping everything. I myself quit a while ago but back then i and others simply lost interest in doing TW at all because it was just lame as fuck to simply have no enemies at all or get completely stomped, do quest and leave. The old system made EVERYONE able to participate thus bringing tons of life to TW.

The System made each top 3 guilds on crystals get %, with many more people participating you will have many more guilds. Also less presure for people to only join top guilds. It literally only has benefits. Sure there will be times where people go "omg this trash ass guild got the map with 8%" but that's what makes it even more fun. 

Maybe some people that currently are actively playing TW can elaborate some more on the participation point.

TW activity has dwindled over the years because the game has. I've never experianced this system so maybe I'm missing something but to be quite honest I've been playing since maybe 65 Cap time and yet I've never seen a problem with the current system. I can see from a small group perspective this is great, you can win but I've seen lots of guilds over the years play TW for the fun of it and not to win so they likely don't care "hey look we won thats cool" vs the people who earned that win "wow really they won this is BS". If I was in that position I'd honestly look for another game, maybe I'm too competative but even now people raged so much about the teams being RNG that I had to add a system that made the teams not RNG anymore but the top guilds are always vs each other.

 

12 minutes ago, SenorBernd said:

I think you can't really compare that as it's 2 whole different things.

You can compare them because in both senarios you won the match. Yet still someone else could win because of a dice roll after the match is finished. In this case too mind you, it would be less BS to lose because its your fault for losing the round. It's not like you can stop your own team from hitting the crystal now can you?

 

Overall I don't think lack of interest comes from losing TW when you choose to PVP in a guild of few people that is your choice and if you lose interest because of that then I don't really see you keeping interest by getting rolled every match but having a small chance to BS someone out of a territory because you tapped the crystal before dying. The main issue with our current PVP has nothing to do with this factor but rather how the game is right now. People don't try to improve they just copy other players, people choose to stay in small cliques which causes imbalance where one guild either has more players than the other or the guild only has 6-10 people. This is more down to how Awaken classes play and is ultimately the main reason 90% of the players I know quit this game including myself. Awaken classes take away most of the stratergy of the game because they're impossible to balanced. This factored in with a lack of exploration of the classes ends up with the current state now 3-4 mechas in a party stacked with supports and healers.

 

This is by no means me saying no I wont do this system any time in the future but this is me saying I 100% don't see how this is fair to anyone whos involved. Now if you where arguing for unlimited kills back so guilds with less players could try and out slay the other top guilds to win then yeh I could see a valid arguement. But adding RNG to a competitive score system just doesn't seem right to me. Either way I'd definatly leave this debate up for who ever is actively PvPing when the server opens as it directly affects them.

 

Just now, nudelholz97 said:

So I also want to elaborate a bit on my point of "guild diversity". In the current situation you have two choices when it comes to the territory war: Join one of the two big guilds, or don't do PvP at all (as PvP currently is only TW, let's be honest TW and Guild war are the only PvP that still exists, arena is completely dead).

Just like SenorBernd said, the current TW is a stompfest. Either you are on a side with 50 people, or 5 people. With the percentage system, there would be motivation for smaller guilds to join the TW. And you don't need to be in a big guild to have good gear. There are many people on the server that have REALLY good gear, and are in small guilds. People like this will never have a chance to win a TW, just because they are lacking the manpower, they will just get overrun and I can get why there are people who don't want to join a big guild with a lot of members, however it currently isn't possible to do anything PvP related while you are in a small guild. 

You're also forgetting however that maybe now its a stomp fest. But your talking about Awaken classes that heal you to full after 1 cast and classes that can 1 shot you through capped resistance. Your talking about a PvP that is more about numbers and stratergy and has been the subject of constant tweaks and balanced changes ever since I became the dev. This is not something you can just label as the sole problem because back on PlayEden (The server I played before) there was points where there was 5-7 guilds fighting for the title. Awaken classes are part of the reason people want this server to begin with. Just remember before awaken classes where released this game had tons of servers all over the place. Even FNO had like 7-10 servers just for Taiwan. After Awaken servers whats left? 1 server at Aeriagames from 6? and same one Taiwan just 1 remains.

 

Either way all Ill say on the matter is we definatly don't have time to add this before beta unless we postpone it for atleast another week and I'd rather see whos PvPing first and asking them directly how they'd like an RNG system deciding who won. But again unless I'm missing some greater point the only thing I see from this system is punish those who try hard and build guilds to benefit the smaller guilds but doesn't really benefit them since they know they didn't earn the win so its nothing they can be proud of.

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16 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Yes but the same arguement said could be pointed for the veteran players with gears no? Like think about it. If I spend months perfecting my build experimenting and I made a guild that can compete with top players. Then some random guild who you've never heard off is just 1 players from a top guild who got kicked or something runs into tw hits the crystal a couple times gets a small % and wins the entire thing. Wouldn't that honestly make you demotivated to try? Like your guild is small so I get it for you guys you'd appreciate a system like this where you can participate and still have a chance to win. But how about the people who attend TW every day to win, the people who grind hard to get to the position they're in and what they lose because RNG didn't roll in their favour? To me it just seems daft and out dated. Sure I can understand how on TW 1.0 with the Defenders vs Attackers I can see how this system could work. However, there is a reason this was changed and I feel like unless I'm missing some big picture the only people this hurts are the players who play actively every week for years just to benefit the underdogs who are lets face it in 90% of cases casual players who only attend for a bit of fun and not really to win.

If a top guild didn't win today due to RNG, it will give them motivation to be in full force tomorrow, instead of going "full force for the first 3 territories and then going AFK" or "going for the sake of stomping". Also, if you have the ability to keep a 33% rate everyday, it's virtually impossible to miss at least 3 territories every week.

Today, if a big guild has 3 territories and I have 5 competent cappers, I can "follow their wind" and win with PVE ONLY. People will still call that bullshit and think it's unfair. Why don't we change it that either you have top points or no one wins? Or maybe remove territory caps because a big guild deserves all 10 territories? This argument can follow on as long as there are 2 sides of the coin.

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49 minutes ago, Reikan said:

If a top guild didn't win today due to RNG, it will give them motivation to be in full force tomorrow, instead of going "full force for the first 3 territories and then going AFK" or "going for the sake of stomping". Also, if you have the ability to keep a 33% rate everyday, it's virtually impossible to miss at least 3 territories every week.

Today, if a big guild has 3 territories and I have 5 competent cappers, I can "follow their wind" and win with PVE ONLY. People will still call that bullshit and think it's unfair. Why don't we change it that either you have top points or no one wins? Or maybe remove territory caps because a big guild deserves all 10 territories? This argument can follow on as long as there are 2 sides of the coin.

I don't know in what world losing when you did everything right and deserve to win motivates you to try harder when you literally cannot do any better. It's not like you can look back and say "I could have done this better" when the only factor to your loss is someone else whacked the crystal. But ok.

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I also agree with the return of classic territory wars. I was bummed when it was removed even though i was in one of the biggest guilds when it used to be a thing.
The % system promotes guild diversity as it doesn't reward manpower as much as the system we have on the current server.
Manpower and gear were crucial when a guild had to defend their own territory, and yes in that case being a lot in the same guild helps, ( even if ultimately after weeks of keeping the same territory the damage received debuff of the defending guild was increasing ( if I remember well ) making it harder and harder to defend as weeks passed. So really OP guilds could still be proud that they kept their territory. Considering that point, it's still rewarding for people in "S tier" guilds )
But looking further than just the victory factor, 2 of the old maps had cool designs, ( it allowed to set traps and build strategies around them ) , they had mobs + 1 elite mob ( which where dealing huge damages to everyone who had aggro on them so they had to be tanked or kited ) to defend xtals from the attacking side players.
I'd like to see a more lively PVP, engaging for everyone even for smoll guilds and that doesn't incite players to join the same 2 guilds if they want to have fun in TW. And if Guild Wars is a thing on this classic server too, then it can only benefit this aspect of the game to have several baby guilds rather than just 2 big guilds and see pvp dying as soon as a one of these guilds is fading out.
But then again, if victory is more important to people, let's leave thing as they are right now and watch classic server ends up with the same pvp ecosystem than the actual server has, we're all used to it anyway.

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I also have to agree with Wooloo. The point system only rewards big guilds with a lot of manpower. In the percentage system geared players within small guilds will get the chance to win. This way every player can feel rewarded by doing TW.

The way you are talking Jordan, makes it sound, like you can only be a good player if you are within "the big guild", and like I said in one of my last posts: There are a lot of players that just don't want to join a big guild. I also don't want to join one of those Mass-Guilds, as I like to be in a smaller guild, but be a lot closer with the other members, than just being one of 50 Members, that I don't really know and like, just because there is no other way for me to be able to do anything within PvP. 

And you can't really account the dying of PvP to the Awaken Classes as it isn't any different in the NCTW. And back in the old Caps you also had Illu and Ranger, who used every Triple Hit, Double DMG and whatever thing to do massive amounts of damage that could one-shot a player through high resistances. 

 

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So let me get this straight, I understand the situation from your PoV, every small guild has a chance to win a TW! now can you understand it from a tryhard guild PoV? 

-A tryhard guild prepares for TW, ask players to commit and show up, create strategy, do all the fights and then at the end some guy running solo wins the TW? 
"Every guild has a fair chance to win TW" isn't really fair considering some guilds will put in work and effort more than others.

Hard pass. 

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So we're going to get unfair PVP again, instead of giving other people who don't want to be in a big guild a chance. Not only the gear decides TWs, the mass of guild members is also decisive.

With a TW system like the % one, you do not punish the big guilds, because either way they will do the most damage and therefore the % are high. Small guilds will be punished and will never have a chance to participate in the TW because they won't get an TW either way OR they don't even fight for a crystal to get the TW at 8%.

Why not reward a guild that fights against many other people to hold a crystal? It is and remains an unfair TW system where more mass gets the TW. Where is the reason to fight if I know that I can't prevail against 30 men anyway?

People just want to win unfairly instead of having good fights. But yes, the TW reward in the 55 cap was crazy, then we just let TW die out and the mass guilds can then stay alone in the TW and sat around for 30 minutes because nobody wants to try it.

 

 


 

 

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1 minute ago, Ehrenbruder said:

So we're going to get unfair PVP again, instead of giving other people who don't want to be in a big guild a chance. Not only the gear decides TWs, the mass of guild members is also decisive.

With a TW system like the % one, you do not punish the big guilds, because either way they will do the most damage and therefore the % are high. Small guilds will be punished and will never have a chance to participate in the TW because they won't get an TW either way OR they don't even fight for a crystal to get the TW at 8%.

Why not reward a guild that fights against many other people to hold a crystal? It is and remains an unfair TW system where more mass gets the TW. Where is the reason to fight if I know that I can't prevail against 30 men anyway?

People just want to win unfairly instead of having good fights. But yes, the TW reward in the 55 cap was crazy, then we just let TW die out and the mass guilds can then stay alone in the TW and sat around for 30 minutes because nobody wants to try it.

 

 



 

 

Define a big guild, because if you think a guild with 1 or 2 parties is big then yeah sure. But if you're talking about 30 40 50, Unlike awakened classes, we won GvGs 15 vs 40 on Play Eden,  

"People just want to win unfairly instead of having good fights" That's exactly what this suggestion is motivating. 
I'd understand if the suggestion was "add rewards to all guilds that attend TW" It'd make more sense, but again you guys are asking to add an RNG system for a competitive pvp which makes zero sense. 
"More Mass Wins TW" more mass doesn't win a TW, but yoloing with 2-3 people shouldn't win a TW either.

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5 minutes ago, Aloha said:

"Every guild has a fair chance to win TW" isn't really fair considering some guilds will put in work and effort more than others.

Every Guild has to put in the effort to get their people geared, and get the class knowledge to do enough damage on the crystal to get their %. 

Also one thing you all are assuming is that "people that hit one or two times on the crystal" will get their %. When you get out a system, that rewards guild diversity more than mass-guilds, you will not fight against unprepared people, you will need to go up against other fully geared people. 

You all just assume that it will be like the current system, where you have just 2 Guilds, however you will go against 5-10 Guilds, all geared, all with a strategy, but maybe not the manpower to go for the cap on multiple crystal, or they will lose out on other crystals. 

Also you are talking about strategy? Do you mean your strategy of recruting so many people into one guild that you just outnumber the other guild with so many people that they have no chance of winning? Then the other guild has to pump their member numbers to outnumber you and then you quit the game because it's unfair when others use the same "strategy" as you? 

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2 hours ago, Jordan said:

Yes but the same arguement said could be pointed for the veteran players with gears no? Like think about it. If I spend months perfecting my build experimenting and I made a guild that can compete with top players. Then some random guild who you've never heard off is just 1 players from a top guild who got kicked or something runs into tw hits the crystal a couple times gets a small % and wins the entire thing. Wouldn't that honestly make you demotivated to try? unless I'm missing some big picture the only people this hurts are the players who play actively every week for years just to benefit the underdogs who are lets face it in 90% of cases casual players who only attend for a bit of fun and not really to win.

There was a group popping up out of nowhere that tried competing in PvP like twice over the whole lifetime of the server. It's not like people are trying to build guilds/gear all the time. Guess why? Because everybody knows that they >will need< to join one of the 2 big guilds to do anything "real" in PvP.

Now your next point is confirming our suggestion even more. You said it, imagine someone gets kicked from ONE of the TWO active guilds there are. Maybe the other guild doesn't want him. He literally has no other choice than joining a noname guild or making is own. In my eyes it's unfair to just drop him into the abyss even if he may be one of the ebst players on the server.

I said it before, you are underestimating your own community. And you are balming it on the awakend classes way too hard. It is indeed very demotivating for everyone not in one of the 2 big guilds. ALso the main reason to attend TW/PvP at all should be the fun doing it, not the sheer purpose of winning. That way of thinking makes it a chore instead of a fun activity. I am pretty sure that even many of the full tryhard-people would have WAY more fun doing TW when they can actually fight people instead of stomping through in 2 minutes and sitting out the rest. How fun is that? none right..

2 hours ago, Jordan said:

TW activity has dwindled over the years because the game has. I've never experianced this system so maybe I'm missing something but to be quite honest I've been playing since maybe 65 Cap time and yet I've never seen a problem with the current system. I can see from a small group perspective this is great, you can win but I've seen lots of guilds over the years play TW for the fun of it and not to win so they likely don't care "hey look we won thats cool" vs the people who earned that win "wow really they won this is BS". If I was in that position I'd honestly look for another game, maybe I'm too competative but even now people raged so much about the teams being RNG that I had to add a system that made the teams not RNG anymore but the top guilds are always vs each other.

So i read this like you are saying a TW is a solo-guild-action and only 1 guild deserves to win. In germany we have a saying "what the farmer doesn't know, he doesn't like". Maybe that's the case for you since you never actually experienced it yourself. Back in the days ofc the big guilds were shitting for a minute when the rare case of an 8% guild winning happened. But in the end everyone had so much fun. I think you're thinking not only a little but way too competitive. You only see the fact of winning the map instead of the great whole being the fight/war itself.

2 hours ago, Jordan said:

You can compare them because in both senarios you won the match. Yet still someone else could win because of a dice roll after the match is finished. In this case too mind you, it would be less BS to lose because its your fault for losing the round. It's not like you can stop your own team from hitting the crystal now can you?

Sorry, i really just don't get that point. In Arena it's a full team effort to win as a whole. In TW you have a fight even within your own team. In Arena it doesn't matter who deals the most damage to the enemy, in TW it matters who does the most DPS on crystals. Could be that i get your point here wrong since i had a bit of trouble understanding it ^^ That's my bad then, sorry if we mean the same thing.

2 hours ago, Jordan said:

This is by no means me saying no I wont do this system any time in the future but this is me saying I 100% don't see how this is fair to anyone whos involved. Now if you where arguing for unlimited kills back so guilds with less players could try and out slay the other top guilds to win then yeh I could see a valid arguement. But adding RNG to a competitive score system just doesn't seem right to me. Either way I'd definatly leave this debate up for who ever is actively PvPing when the server opens as it directly affects them.

On an overall point of view for the whole community, i give you that it may be not benefitting the most geared/manned guild all the time, but it WILL raise participation and motivation. You think people in "high end" guilds will get demotivated but at least from experience from back then i can say that is not the case at all.

Bringing back unlimited kills is just the same overcompetitive way of thinking in my eyes. It will ONLY benefit the biggest manpowered guild to stunlock/transform/whatever farm lowbies. I guess you very well know that thinking a little guild could outkill a big one is just silly. 

While it is RNG, you really need to keep in mind that 33% is still way more than 8%(and as i said before you are the GM, you can for example change the % rates at any time) and it does seem right in mind of giving the whole Server a chance and more fun instead of pressuring them to join a big guild that may be full of people they don't even like/language barrier/whatever. It is encouraging everyone on the whole server to give it their best. The current system is join -> see if you are on "the good side" -> leave // or stmop through in a minute.

2 hours ago, Jordan said:

Either way all Ill say on the matter is we definatly don't have time to add this before beta unless we postpone it for atleast another week and I'd rather see whos PvPing first and asking them directly how they'd like an RNG system deciding who won. But again unless I'm missing some greater point the only thing I see from this system is punish those who try hard and build guilds to benefit the smaller guilds but doesn't really benefit them since they know they didn't earn the win so its nothing they can be proud of.

Nobody ever asked for it to be implemented at the start. Maybe if it's possible programming wise try to make one day of the week with that system so people can just check it out. I thought that's what this forum was for, >suggestions< ^^

I will be active at the start so i will remind this topic when the time comes :D 

I guess me and some others spoke about the "greater point" you are missing enough for you to understand it by now. You keep picturing it as if the people with 24/16/8% at the end were absolutely worthless and only the biggest guild in the TW was allowed to win at all. TW back in the day was a team game and should be. As of now, it's just a "one guild rolls over the other or nothing happens at all" thing. Back with that system i was one of the most competitive people for TW and always wanted more. Even i was angry for a sec if a lowbie guild won with 24/16/8% but yeah. Maybe we just had a whole different/nice mentality back on our server ^^

Will keep an eye on here, forum noticed me with 4 new replies in the meantime of writing this. So, sorry if i doubled up on something now.  

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