Jump to content

Limitless/Endless Dungeons


Bryce__
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi, some people already talked about endless dungeons, and the answer they got was "It will bring bots and infinite farming".

I'm wondering if the captcha thing of the "main" EE game of VGN couldn't be added on dungeons. But not in dungeons strictly speaking. Why not create a sort of random captcha for each 1 to infinite entrances in the dungeon. It will only show up outside the dungeon (to prevent crashes in dungeon and things like "man i died because of the captcha, it sucks") and the player couldn't enter the dungeon if the captcha isn't solved.

With that solution, the bot farming could be possible of course, but it will be limited and the players will need to be semi-afk or at least in front of their screen to solve the captcha.

The other problem of this endless dungeon idea was the amount of gold you can farm. For that, you could make a 0/10 or 0/20 thing, each completed dungeon add 1 to it and at 20 you can't earn gold anymore from monsters, and items are 80% rarest so you could still earn some golds, but you can still earn XP if the level of the player is adequate. Like that, it will prevent from bots, massive eco farming (even if you can still drop items), and will help for leveling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a very good idea, at the start of the games the dungeons were unlimited and difficult so having to have a group I find it more fun than doing it in 0.2, then must not forget the run which allows us to have 'and a can of exp. Once 55 levels how are you going to do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From cap55 to cap65 the daily solo /10 entances are more than enough to lvup yourself and classes even in x1 rate. And in any case there's still the party /10 to play. Don't forget that you can also lvup with the main quests that are a must do anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, naru said:

no limits = infinit gold 

infinit gold = prime costumes = 10k gold xD

 

not a good idea to remove limits im for 0/10 limits to not kill the marked

Depends on how much gold you can farm per hour in the dungeons. People can still have multiple characters with the same gears (archive system) to do multiple dungeons, but it's time consuming and depending on situation, not worth it. 

Just a matter of balance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to offend you or anything, but removing limits is the WORST idea specially for a new server.
We don't need unlimited mode for leveling, even with x1 rates, as said before.
Only thing that unlimited dungeons add is unlimited ammount of gold someone can get.
That only benefits people who have a lot of time to play, since they will be able to feed on gold and inflate everything price since day 1 of server.
On current server, VGN price is 700k since legendary pets release, that doesn't happen simply because new pets is adding more value to VGN, but because people are feed on gold and can pay 700k meaning if you add more gold only thing that will happen is VGN price increasing again. That's how it works basically for anything that have a high demand, specially if/when low suply: People with more gold will pay more so they can make sure they have it. Meaning if unlimited mode is available people with more time will ruin server economy by inflating ecs, corona and eps price since beggining of server.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM
2 hours ago, Kirlu said:

Oh boy. A lot of people on the other server have like 9 alts.

Yes but the other server you can level an alt from 1 to 110 in like 3 hours so it's not really a fair comparrison since the EXP tables are much steeper in classic and the rate isn't x8 so power leveling becomes much harder.

As a general take on this subject I wanna point out something. Everyone has this general opinion that farming the first 2 rooms on a dungeon like century 70 times per hour was the only way to make gold. It by no means isn't the only way to make gold it was just the best way when the system was unlimited. However, now the system is limited you guys will have to look for other ways to farm gold that isn't just power grinding the first room of a dungeon. Even at this stage of the game there is a lot of dungeons and quests to do. I'm sure you guys will figure it out as plenty of gold grinding methods have been found on our current server that people didn't expect. Just remember just because back in the day they farmed this dungeon doesn't mean its the only way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the meta will be similar to how 70/75 cap was on MS where we will farm gold by doing all the 0/2 solo dungeons for money and to level up classes

My initial thought was also that gold will be hard to farm without a larger limit than 0/10, but we should test this out ourselves before jumping to conclusions

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that there shouldn't be a limit, although of course there should be preventative measures for botting. Along with this I think that we should get rid of single player dungeons for the time being.

Doing the original dungeons as a group promoted a sense of community among players in the original game because we had to grind together for trophies. It was something to do beyond trial dungeons and provided more content, rather than us just getting lucky and gaining everything that the mainline dungeons have to offer in solos. (which started at late 70 cap (? or was it awakening patch) and from then on the interest dwindled in doing the original dungeons as parties) Century was hard as hell at its cap. Crimson too. Even Century Abyss was crazy to finish when it first came out at 75 cap. These experiences are important! And enjoyable.

I've been lurking this section for awhile now and often I see people argue that changes were made in place of the classic settings "for a reason," and I don't find that to be a valid argument. Eden Eternal didn't even live to see its final content updates on the original server, with PvP and many aspects of the game ultimately becoming unbearably dysfunctional. The playerbase constantly dropped whenever a major change was implemented and lack of motivation to go on was commonplace. To argue that these updated models did anything to benefit the game when all that we've ever seen is a decline isn't fair. And this isn't saying that every change and update implemented was bad, but we really can't accurately tell what changes were good and bad until we can re-experience them, and that should start (on a classic server) by going back to the basics and building up from there depending on what the community feels.

Things like unlimited dungeons without an easier version are important, at least for the beginning of a classic server, because it provides a social aspect and allows players to work together rather than isolate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM

Although there is aspects I agree with in your comment there is a number of reasons they likely changed to 0/2 starting with the main fact that when 65 cap is released and the size of the playerbase most players are already at the capped level. So not only can they not help the new players level up the new players also have nobody to party with cause everyone else is leveled up. This feature is find in a server like aeria when the games only a few years old and has 50-100 new players a day. But when the server gets a couple months old the new players side of the spectrum is very low in comparrison and it will be very hard for them to get partys. So even though in the current state it would positively impact the game in the long run it will negatively impact the game.

As for unlimited although I'm personally on the fence I do believe that it isn't really super necessary to farm as players have always found ways to deal with limits. This is not a feature thats even able to be turned on and would require a lot of backend changes to fix and then additionally would require more work to add bot checks to prevent the bots that ruin the economy. So it's not like I wont do it but I personally think this is not the feature that made the player count drop as I've pretty much only played actively since after they added the limit and the game and back then channels on Aeria US where orange every day because of activity and sometimes a channel might get full. The main turning points of content that drove players away from my point of view where the following changes:

  • Mimic Class Release
  • Aura Kingdom Release
  • 100 Cap Release
  • Awaken Class Release (This being the major turning point)

These in my eyes where the main points when the game starter to slow up in my time of playing. Awaken classes was when most of the most notable players stopped playing because the game ultimately became less fun as you had to deal with being one shot, one shotting yourself for building damage and not being able to kill tanky members cause healers full heal them in one skill.

I'd also like to point out at this level of content its very hard for people to isolate themselves as content like awaken 75 axe and other healing gear is not released yet. So I don't really think you need to force them to dungeons as with the current community of the game they would just stay within their own guilds anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Although there is aspects I agree with in your comment there is a number of reasons they likely changed to 0/2 starting with the main fact that when 65 cap is released and the size of the playerbase most players are already at the capped level. So not only can they not help the new players level up the new players also have nobody to party with cause everyone else is leveled up. This feature is find in a server like aeria when the games only a few years old and has 50-100 new players a day. But when the server gets a couple months old the new players side of the spectrum is very low in comparrison and it will be very hard for them to get partys. So even though in the current state it would positively impact the game in the long run it will negatively impact the game.

As for unlimited although I'm personally on the fence I do believe that it isn't really super necessary to farm as players have always found ways to deal with limits. This is not a feature thats even able to be turned on and would require a lot of backend changes to fix and then additionally would require more work to add bot checks to prevent the bots that ruin the economy. So it's not like I wont do it but I personally think this is not the feature that made the player count drop as I've pretty much only played actively since after they added the limit and the game and back then channels on Aeria US where orange every day because of activity and sometimes a channel might get full. The main turning points of content that drove players away from my point of view where the following changes:

  • Mimic Class Release
  • Aura Kingdom Release
  • 100 Cap Release
  • Awaken Class Release (This being the major turning point)

These in my eyes where the main points when the game starter to slow up in my time of playing. Awaken classes was when most of the most notable players stopped playing because the game ultimately became less fun as you had to deal with being one shot, one shotting yourself for building damage and not being able to kill tanky members cause healers full heal them in one skill.

I'd also like to point out at this level of content its very hard for people to isolate themselves as content like awaken 75 axe and other healing gear is not released yet. So I don't really think you need to force them to dungeons as with the current community of the game they would just stay within their own guilds anyway.

Those absolutely were the final nails in the coffin, no denying that. And if its too difficult then that's reasonable.

I just feel that content involving item hunting is important and if anything the single player dungeons made it honestly too easy to obtain important trophies in the upcoming caps that were desirable and a challenge to work for originally. Not sure if this is possible but maybe there could be a compromise of dungeons close to the cap being set at unlimited without a single player mode. I don't know! But I definitely see your perspective better now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM
59 minutes ago, Kibo said:

Those absolutely were the final nails in the coffin, no denying that. And if its too difficult then that's reasonable.

I just feel that content involving item hunting is important and if anything the single player dungeons made it honestly too easy to obtain important trophies in the upcoming caps that were desirable and a challenge to work for originally. Not sure if this is possible but maybe there could be a compromise of dungeons close to the cap being set at unlimited without a single player mode. I don't know! But I definitely see your perspective better now.

The issue is as well, the drop rates themselves for said items even at vanilla rates is too high. You will be done and dusted with content before it's even had a chance to settle if this was set to unlimited. I've never been a fan of limiting dungeons here btw, it's just unfortunate that the drop rate and the way the equipment system works in this game is made this way and thus has to result in such features to control it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Bash said:

The issue is as well, the drop rates themselves for said items even at vanilla rates is too high. You will be done and dusted with content before it's even had a chance to settle if this was set to unlimited. I've never been a fan of limiting dungeons here btw, it's just unfortunate that the drop rate and the way the equipment system works in this game is made this way and thus has to result in such features to control it.

You're right. So in that case, should rates be lowered how they used to be? That's another thing to discuss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM
3 minutes ago, Kibo said:

You're right. So in that case, should rates be lowered how they used to be? That's another thing to discuss.

We have to see how the next line of content unfolds with everyone. If we identify a problem we can certainly fix it for the next content that's for certain. Our main objective is to keep this game as close to classic as possible but introduce some of the features that made the game better. In the end biggest problems this game had was Mimic and then being forced to Awaken Classes because of how OP Mimic was. So as long as we keep away from content like that it shouldn't be a problem if we add our own spins to certain vanilla stuff.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...