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Jordan

Weapon Percentage System

Please read the post to know what each option is, thank you!  

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  1. 1. Please read the post to know what each option is, thank you!

    • Option A
      106
    • Option B
      34
    • Option C
      105


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Introduction

Hey everyone, hope you're all enjoying the beta from the videos of PvP I see and the feedback I get from talking with you guys seems to be going pretty well. Me, Bash and Vivi are very happy with how the launch went and we thank anyone who supported our launch!

Today I'd like to bring you a proper formatted topic about the current hot discussion of the weapon percentage system as I've seen many discussions on here, in game and in my DM's about this system. I'd like for your feedback along with your vote on the poll as an open discussion could provide even better results and a more accurate picture on the right direction.

Now first of I want to run a disclaimer that the poll on this post will impactful on the final decision of this but it will also not be the one true factor as I will check each person who votes and check for any multi-account voting which happens most times we open a poll.

PLEASE MAKE SURE TO READ ALL THE OPTIONS BEFORE VOTING SO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE VOTING FOR.

 

Options

Option A - Keep the 120% System

The standard option of keeping the current system allows people to improve there gear by min-maxing as people who would on the current live. Let me remind you that the different between one of the bigger weapons (A staff) has about a difference of 2-2.5k M-ATK at level 55 between a 100% and a 120% both at +10. So this difference doesn't really have a huge impact on anything and is mainly just for asthetics rather than actual damage. Ofcourse its ugly to keep such a percentage but at the end of the day anyone who says a 101% 55 staff is un-usable just doesn't understand how numbers work in this game.

This would also entail that 65 Awakens when released will need to have their attack stat re-evaluated so that they would match the kinds of ratios seen from the 75 golds to 75 awakens (About 121%-125% ish rather than being about 115% as they currently are so a 120% 65 Gold would be higher. Please note that 160% 65 Purples are slightly higher than 65 Awakens, the difference is about 80 M-ATK on the staff).

Additionally there can be discussions made about increasing the trial cap so you get more runs a day or even reverting to the old system of 10 of any trials you want (we can even increase this higher if need be).

 

 

Option B - Change the system to 110% max for Gold Weapons

Simply put changing the current cap of gold weapons to 110% from 120%. In perspective this halfs the amount of RNG needed to get a good percent of the weapon still allowing for some min-maxing but will encourage people more so that low percent is ok. This change would push Purples at 160% ahead of the golds still but not enough to completely outshine said gold as the proc effect if serviceable should out-weight the M-ATK difference.

If this change is implemented then peoples weapons will be scaled down. Here is a list of the scaling that will be done:

  • 120/119 -> 110
  • 118/117 -> 109
  • 116/115 -> 108
  • 114/113 -> 107
  • 112/111 -> 106
  • 110/109 -> 105
  • 108/107 -> 104
  • 106/105 -> 103
  • 104/103 -> 102
  • 102/101 -> 101

 

 

Option C - Change Purples and Gold Weapons (100% max)

If we're going for the full classic experiance then some changes must be made. Arcane box is too convenient as it stands and with purples being so easy to obtain and reroll gold weapons practically lose all value with this change as your looking at the difference between a couple of rerolls running some 0/10's compared to running a trial, calling the weapon and then getting said weapon which is dumb. This is not how the game should be and not how it was so if we revert weapons to 100% max then likely arcane box will not be serving up purple weapons and if we are to keep rerolling then at the very least it will be made much harder (Most likely I will remove this option too).

I would also like to inform since there seems to be a lot of people jumping on the 120% didn't exist at 55/60 cap but don't have the first idea about purples. The only thing that was different was gold weapons didn't have a percentage. Purples still had a percentage, so did blues, so did greens and so did whites. We also wouldn't be removing this before anyone suggests it.

If this change is implemented all existing gold weapons will be reverted to 100%, I have this  tested and ready to go so apologies if someone has a 120% already of anything of a high standard but remember this is a beta and things might be changed due to the community feedback.

 

 

Finising Notes

I'd like to thank everyone for reading and participating whether you just vote or provide feedback bellow. I would like to thank you in advance for not turning this thread into a flame war or an arguement. You can expect these changes for launch with the release of 60 cap giving us atleast a week to discuss these change.

 

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Option C will just greatly reduce this server lifetime

People drop or craft they're weapon, and it's done, their stuff is finished for this cap level

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Option A to keep pvp interesting.

You want to see EVERYONE on the server using the same weapon? The same build? So the guild that have more people will always win pvp...

The awaken weapons already have brute procs like the Bow or the Cestus.
What about the grimoire or the mace? The awaken ones have a poor proc and the golden/purple weapons give to classes like Ilusionist or Templar (who dont have a mdps awaken mace) a choice to build diferent.

Please, everyone, think clearly about your votes.

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30 minutes ago, Alenda said:

Option A to keep pvp interesting.

You want to see EVERYONE on the server using the same weapon? The same build? So the guild that have more people will always win pvp...

The awaken weapons already have brute procs like the Bow or the Cestus.
What about the grimoire or the mace? The awaken ones have a poor proc and the golden/purple weapons give to classes like Ilusionist or Templar (who dont have a mdps awaken mace) a choice to build diferent.

Please, everyone, think clearly about your votes.

i don't really understand your point with using different build with percentages? most of the ppl will still go for the same weps/builds but well..
option c is like the same it was on classic eden and there were some ppl during 65 cap who also used purple weps.

Also the drop rates are just too bad to use it with the percentage system (which came in combination with the class drop system so you get more drops) that many ppl go with purple weapons atm bc it's easier to build. And that shouldn't be it.... 

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Just to preface this I'm personally undecided between B or C. And realistically speaking this change won't matter much until later.

11 minutes ago, Menthe said:

Option C will just greatly reduce this server lifetime

People drop or craft they're weapon, and it's done, their stuff is finished for this cap level

Don't think this is true, there's still a lot we will have to do with upcoming armors in multiple caps. Fortifying, gemming, enchanting and leveling gear are all things to tackle. Its not instantly done and the way that stones are being released (so far) there is going to be a pace no matter what.

11 minutes ago, Alenda said:

Option A to keep pvp interesting.

You want to see EVERYONE on the server using the same weapon? The same build? So the guild that have more people will always win pvp...

The awaken weapons already have brute procs like the Bow or the Cestus.
What about the grimoire or the mace? The awaken ones have a poor proc and the golden/purple weapons give to classes like Ilusionist or Templar (who dont have a mdps awaken mace) a choice to build diferent.

Please, everyone, think clearly about your votes.

Do people really make their class build solely around their weapon percentage? Just curious if you have an example. I understand fortifications, but percentage sounds like a stretch really. And your comment on a guild with more people will always win pvp without option A doesn't make sense for your point... its confusing me. With that logic there could be a guild with full 120s who will end up sweeping everyone, no? I'm just trying to get your view point.

 

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1 minute ago, Niemand said:

i don't really understand your point with using different build with percentages? most of the ppl will still go for the same weps/builds but well..
option c is like the same it was on classic eden and there were some ppl during 65 cap who also used purple weps.

Also the drop rates are just too bad to use it with the percentage system (which came in combination with the class drop system so you get more drops) that many ppl go with purple weapons atm bc it's easier to build. And that shouldn't be it.... 

With percentages. The golden weapons that are not awaken, start to become an option to people build their characters. I really dont understand YOUR point.

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4 minutes ago, Kibo said:

Do people really make their class build solely around their weapon percentage? Just curious if you have an example. I understand fortifications, but percentage sounds like a stretch really. And your comment on a guild with more people will always win pvp without option A doesn't make sense for your point... its confusing me. With that logic there could be a guild with full 120s who will end up sweeping everyone, no? I'm just trying to get your view point.

 

That's why getting a 120% weapon is not easy. I'm talking about awaken weapons here.

Look... In the cap 65 we had a staff that proc double hit. But the awaken one have much more m-atk and it's own proc besides +5% elem. resistance.
So everyone used Hecate and any build using the double hit staff was 'meh'.

In this server we have the classic drop system which makes getting a 120% weapon a real pain. The same argument that people who do the awakened quest have using merit, that goes the same for who run 3 entrances in a trial for weeks to get a good weapon.

And yes. Only support classes dont build around the weapon.

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6 minutes ago, Kibo said:

Don't think this is true, there's still a lot we will have to do with upcoming armors in multiple caps. Fortifying, gemming, enchanting and leveling gear are all things to tackle. Its not instantly done and the way that stones are being released (so far) there is going to be a pace no matter what.

You know what I mean by "done"

 

Gemming, enchanting is fast to do, Fortifying/Chisel isn't something we can farm directly

Not having % on gold weapon will just kill Trials farming 

It will also force people to play with Awaken weap, killing build diversity 

 

 

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For me the main problem is having Weapon%-System AND the low Droprates so building a class "perfectly" takes way too long for just one player.
Now Imagine trying to gear mutliple people.

Now based on the options Jordan gave us, i personally go with Option C too. Here's my view based on some statements already made by others:

57 minutes ago, Menthe said:

Option C will just greatly reduce this server lifetime

People drop or craft they're weapon, and it's done, their stuff is finished for this cap level

first of all, just as Kibo said, i don't think having only 100% Gold Weapons will reduce server lifetime that much. This game has so much stuff to do like Upping gear, getting perfect stats while doing so; do your weapon and armor upgrades, do achievements, and leveling your classes for extra stats.
And even when people are perfectly done with one class - this game lets you choose freely between 13 Classes (at the moment), (later up to 20 probably) so instead of sitting afk in Aven and waiting for the next cap, people can try to play a different class and perfect it as well.

56 minutes ago, Alenda said:

You want to see EVERYONE on the server using the same weapon? The same build? So the guild that have more people will always win pvp...

Why would Weapon% make people play different builds?
So instead of 3 mages with the same Set, same trophies, same accessoir and same 100% weapon
  we will have 3 mages with the same Set, same trophies, same accessoir and 117%, 118% and 120% Weapon?

If you mean for example playing Templar on lvl 65 Cap with a purple weapon instead of the Awakened because it doesn't have the right procs for Templar i understand, but Jordan said

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

The only thing that was different was gold weapons didn't have a percentage. Purples still had a percentage, so did blues, so did greens and so did whites. We also wouldn't be removing this before anyone suggests it.

and i read this as "Gold Weapons become 100% while purples, blues, greens and whites keep their %. So playing Templar with a high % purple Mace with like int, agi, lck, mcritr, mcritd would still be possible especially if the purple weapon has more Matk than the awakened (or 120% Gold respectively)
Also another Idea for this problem: maybe Jordan can make a custom Awa weapon for lvl 65 Templar and 75 Support-Mace, and/or change the procs of the grimoir. But thats a different matter for now - just wanted to give an idea

One last Note; i think having only 100% Gold Weapons will give the Blueprints much more Value, because when you craft, you KNOW that the weapon will be sold and used because there won't be a better one. You can't really say this about a weapon you craft with e.g. 101%-105%. People are probably not motivated to put lots of gold into a mere chance of getting even a halfway decent weapon

These are just my points of view, if i understood anything wrong in the quotes feel free to correct me.
 

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For me doesn't matter.
ppls saying ''same builds'' but will aways like that cause 90% of players Copy and Paste.
But excelent pool to show how ppl will play :D

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1 minute ago, Skyrith said:

Why would Weapon% make people play different builds?
So instead of 3 mages with the same Set, same trophies, same accessoir and same 100% weapon
  we will have 3 mages with the same Set, same trophies, same accessoir and 117%, 118% and 120% Weapon?

Because different weapons have different stats. Using the staff again for example...
One gives you M-DMG, other gives you Cast-SPD. You can build diferent sets, trophies, accesories and even TALENTs and CERTIFICATEs by having more weapon options for people.

Your argument is based on people that look each other gear and copies. But those people don't really know what their doing. So having more building diversity, you make force those people to actually learn the game to be better.

With option C. Anyone with low game knowledge can just copy someone character and still own in PvP. This is also perfect for cashers that dont know about the game but have the gold to fortify itens faster.

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First of all, i'd like to point out that i disagree with the subject of this pool being the best solution for our server. The problem right now is: the drop rate for gold weapons is so low that, based on pure luck (rng whatever you wanna call it), one would get to have an 120% and another person would get a 101% weapon and with be stuck with it. There are so many people in my guild that need Magic Skeleton (Veninfang Trial lvl55), for example, and if you don't take the first one you see cause you didn't like the %, you might as well never get to have it. Also, i've done a whole bunch of trials and i only saw that staff drop twice, it's so frustrating to do 12 trials everyday and only get one drop for the incredible amount of people that is playing in our server. The current state is just forcing people into low % weapons.

Second, with increasing the drop rate or getting class drop not being an option, option C seems to be the most fair one. Not only cause it sets a limit to how "strong" everyone can get, making skillful players shine out more, but also, because you're probably gonna be stuck with the first weapon you get.

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18 minutes ago, Alenda said:

Because different weapons have different stats. Using the staff again for example...
One gives you M-DMG, other gives you Cast-SPD. You can build diferent sets, trophies, accesories and even TALENTs and CERTIFICATEs by having more weapon options for people.

Your argument is based on people that look each other gear and copies. But those people don't really know what their doing. So having more building diversity, you make force those people to actually learn the game to be better.

With option C. Anyone with low game knowledge can just copy someone character and still own in PvP. This is also perfect for cashers that dont know about the game but have the gold to fortify itens faster.

I think i get now what you we're meaning. When i read your inital post i was thinking about a lvl 60 Mage. in this case the % wouldn't matter at all for the different builds of the mage since they only affect the base M-Atk.


i couldn't read your post where you said you were talking about the awakened weapons because i was still typing.
I agree that it should be possible to have an lvl 65 cast-spd Staff being able to rival the awakened Staff to promote build-diversity. In this case it's probably best to limit goldweapons to 110% so the difference between the worst (101%) and the best (110%) isn't too big and also lower the awakened weapons a bit too so the difference between 110% non-awa and awa is also not the biggest - while still making it worth the time and effort to get an awakened weapon

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There's also an argument about stones being too rare, so you wouldn't get to fortify two of the same weapon because you probably wanna build a second class, and other people in your guild might wanna that some drop too.

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3 minutes ago, lvieira said:

First of all, i'd like to point out that i disagree with the subject of this pool being the best solution for our server. The problem right now is: the drop rate for gold weapons is so low that, based on pure luck (rng whatever you wanna call it), one would get to have an 120% and another person would get a 101% weapon and with be stuck with it.

Yeah just like i said initially, the main problem that led to this discussion is most likely the Combination of having % Weapons and low droprate.
As the droprate currently is, i also think option C is the best making farming and crafting goldgear viable because who wants to do Trials or craft multiple for weeks to get even one single decent Weaopn.
 

With higher Droprate or a system to improve low% Weapons (like rerolling - but make it harder) i'd be fine with 110 or 120% based Weapons

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Note: I favor 100%, but I honestly don't care about the final outcome since I'm a healer 😄

 

I personally think the best option is to have 100% for now, but then add 120% during awaken weapon caps (65/75). I think this will be the best medium ground since it looks like everyone is split on this (not sure how hard this would be to add to the game).

 

This addresses the concerns of:

gear diversity: on awaken caps, people can use awaken weapon or 120% weapons since they have similar pattack/mattack but might have different procs/base stats

low drop rate: helps drops rate for no % system for non awaken weapon caps because it doesn't matter what item you get as long as you get it, but for awaken weapon caps % system doesn't matter for yellows you plan on awakening and allows you to farm for other yellows you might want to use at 120%

crafting: crafting has value at all caps (either base 100% weapons or any% awaken weapons)

server lifetime: tbh idk this is too hard to tell

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I understand that people are affraid of option A cause of the low drop rate + the % RNG

But GM said we could maybe get 10 Trials entries which is really cool for people who like to farm

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2 hours ago, Menthe said:

You know what I mean by "done"

 

Gemming, enchanting is fast to do, Fortifying/Chisel isn't something we can farm directly

Not having % on gold weapon will just kill Trials farming 

It will also force people to play with Awaken weap, killing build diversity 

 

No it actually seems I didn't but thanks so much for clarifying! There's still a lot to do; people are going to trial. If anything the system of class drops and being burnt out after a week of spamming for 120% weapons ruined the motivation to trial rather than the original system in place. (This is supposed to be a classic server btw) And this reminded me that with weapons at 100% there could actually be a crafting market for them again since its not a giant gamble, meaning people will still go to farm for things like cores and hearts. What you're saying and worried about leads me to believe you feel that the drop rates are, in your opinion, actually just too high for a 100% system. Is that not the case?

Build diversity will still be brought about through trophies, accessories, sets, KP and certs just like they always have. Your weapon has never been a be all end all. And even then not every cap even has awakened weapons. Also as said before by infecttado 90% of players realistically copy and paste anyway. 

1 hour ago, Alenda said:

Because different weapons have different stats. Using the staff again for example...
One gives you M-DMG, other gives you Cast-SPD. You can build diferent sets, trophies, accesories and even TALENTs and CERTIFICATEs by having more weapon options for people.

Your argument is based on people that look each other gear and copies. But those people don't really know what their doing. So having more building diversity, you make force those people to actually learn the game to be better.

With option C. Anyone with low game knowledge can just copy someone character and still own in PvP. This is also perfect for cashers that dont know about the game but have the gold to fortify itens faster.

Did you play the original server..? Even with awakened weapons out of the picture people build the same things anyway. An argument about diversity is literally so pointless. You're not gonna do anything against the grain. No point in lying.

Oh and as an update - voted for C.

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For those that are voting Option A for more diversity, why do you guys kid yourselves when claiming the reason is for diversity? IN the previous iterations of this level cap or on different private servers, players have proven over and over they don't know how to diversify. Maybe it's different now, but I have my reasons of doubt after speaking to some of the players who play on the Awakened server. 

Jordan, if you're going to choose Option A you should be implementing the true classic feel of repair costs and fortification costs. If golds are going to be the true META, players should experience how annoying it was to fortify them and repair them. There was more than one reason people used purples over golds, it has nothing to do with the raw magic or attack they provide a player, it was to circumvent almost bankrupting gold costs in repairs and fortifications.

 

Option B is the most balancing option provided to us and I'm curious to why it's the least voted option. I guess people still only care about seeing their M-ATK or ATK as high as possible, even though it's been proven through history of the game that it's barely a relevant stat in PVP if everyone has the same fortification level on their weapon.

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I want to say that my frist choice is the option B, but I voted option C because I don't want to option A wins. (I checked the results before put in my vote)

There's no good explanation to keep option A and full classic experience of option C can make gearing some classes really annoying, like Templar. 

Option B can fix both problems.

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1 minute ago, Sasori said:

I want to say that my frist choice is the option B, but I voted option C because I don't want to option A wins. (I checked the results before put in my vote)

There's no good explanation to keep option A and full classic experience of option C can make gearing some classes really annoying, like Templar. 

Option B can fix both problems.

Just as an example, Option A and Option C have both been alt voted. I'd rather everyone vote for what they want as I will only factor in the votes that are real and I will also take comments into consideration.

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Fact: Even thou Option C has more votes. The majority of the server dont want 100%. Since Option A & B are in favor of the percentage.
I did like Sasori. I also prefer Option B but I just realized that it cant win.

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The option that has the most votes does not mean that will be the result we end up with, it literally says that in the original post. You guys should vote for what you guys think is the best option, not what your friends are voting for or what you think "can win."

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