Jump to content

LCPie
 Share

Recommended Posts

I am fully aware that this is just going to get shut down by the community, but i think that their should be a limit on the tax rate for using other guild's towns. For such a new server, tax rates and price gouging is just a move that's going to stop the flow of the game, especially for pvp circumstances. It would make the pvp dry until the rest of the server can get caught up. I'm aware that TW is bugged in the game right now at the time I'm going to be posting this, but far as i can see, the other level 5 guilds aren't close to getting a level 6 guild to give competition.

We have new people playing and frankly, with my group that I want to play with, my uni friends who are playing this game for the first time, not even coming from another server. We're a small group, and not going to be able to get very far even in pve if we can't get the gears that the rest of the server would want us to have to run trials. Right now we aren't quite far in our characters, but it's quite obvious to see that we aren't going to even be really allowed to try for lv 58/60 gears when we get there soon because we won't be able to afford it. No guild at this point should be allowed to have 1000% tax, and price gouge lv 58/60 sets, it's not helpful in any way for this server.

The max tax rate that a guild leader should be allowed to set should be at the very most 50-60%. GUILDS GET GOLD WHEN PEOPLE ACTUALLY USE THEIR TOWN, use dungeons to get your own gold, that how you're supposed to get it, not price gouging your peers.

I know this might be "against" the classic experience, I played on Aeria, i knew there were guilds who raised their tax when they got uncommon crafting merchants that everyone needed, but it's honestly toxic and ruins the game for a lot of people, especially for the new players, for the who just want to enjoy the game and the people who can't afford to spend the money to get VGN to get the gold they need to buy the price gouged sets. I don't even know if the tax % cap could be set either, but i at the very least want this to be out there.

 

Edit: I am fully aware that they are allowed to set their tax this way, and we can't do anything about it than voice our opinion on it, this is that. This is my opinion, it is what i think would help the server, i know that this is "normal" but we could change it so it's friendly to the people who may be playing the game by themselves as a hobby or something.

Edited by LCPie
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was wondering too, when i logged in today and just realized that their are a lot of high lvl guilds with crazy tax rates. 

It goes from 50% up to 911% up to 1000%. I even talked about it in world chat but the only rude answer i got was "why the fuck not, put tax rates all 1000%". 

I dont know whats wrong in peoples heads to fuck up a new server already in this way, but i absolutely agree with LCPie, that this has to stop. There has to be a Limit for Taxrate.

It doesnt only keep players away from the game cause they cant get items from guildtowns, its also not funny at all.

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, KageOnly said:

Sorry but you are totally wrong people in guilds on farm RQ etc to build their guilds lv6 so it is normal that he does not let everyone benefit.

Like i said in my edit i know they can do that, but with my friends being new players, and we're playing together rather than being in a huge guild, we have to get our stuff from somewhere. I am fully aware that the guilds have to farm to get to where they are but when that guild has over 100 players, it's easier for them to do it over, say a guild with 30 people or even just a group of 10. 50-60% tax is still really high, but 1000% is absurd.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, KageOnly said:

Yes, but the problem is if he lowers the tax, why should other guilds improve their guilds ?

The other guilds will be forced to show their guilds too

it means that people will use the guild town and therefore pay the tax that it is set at. the guild would make money. and if he doesn't have competition, he can have it set lower with more people using it. more people, less tax = people use their stuff = they get paid. but if it's set at 1000, people will generally not use their town, and many will just boycott, not buying anything from the members.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, KageOnly said:

Anyway the taxes will go down in some time when several guilds are lv6 because 1 guild alone cannot do all the building so they will need another guild and the taxes will drop to 10/20%.

And SweetDream doesn't need people to come to their home, they just want no one to come

 

Yea that's fair

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wanted to discuss about that in game and I felt the same way as you, (not) surprisingly a lot of people insulted me or just told me that I had to stop complaining (a GS did that, yes !)

I fully support you in the fact that the tax gap should be lowered, a part of the community needs it to be able to play decently and without too much frustration

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i could write much and to be honest i didn't even bother to read your post fully but 3 things:

1. People can play the game how ever the heck they want to and you are just trying to force your way on them. As people said multiple times in chat, sets are sold for 1.5k and even lower already. Just get one of them. You will 1000% pay more for crafting it yourself(blueprints + fails // stardust is 1k each atm so you get the deal)

2. Those people paid 55k for the guild level up and tons more for the mats to grind the fame itself, surely nearing 100k gold spent overall. They do own the right to craft a few sets and sell them first before opening it up to everyone(as i said before, you will be better off just buying a set instead of crafting it yourself)

3. Keep in freaking mind that we are on day 4 of the cap. You do absolutely have no right to complain about not having your stuff on day 4. For real. Calm the shit down people.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our whole guild watched this loveley conversation in chat @Adonys and we even tried to support your opinion cause its ours aswell. We appreciate your honesty and courage in chat, specially when it comes to an GS who actually tells everyone to fuck off, who doesnt share his opinion.  And we all saw that in chat.

I just wanted to thank you here for trying to make things better against such a stubborn horde of humans.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, SenorBernd said:

i could write much and to be honest i didn't even bother to read your post fully but 3 things:

1. People can play the game how ever the heck they want to and you are just trying to force your way on them. As people said multiple times in chat, sets are sold for 1.5k and even lower already. Just get one of them. You will 1000% pay more for crafting it yourself(blueprints + fails // stardust is 1k each atm so you get the deal)

2. Those people paid 55k for the guild level up and tons more for the mats to grind the fame itself, surely nearing 100k gold spent overall. They do own the right to craft a few sets and sell them first before opening it up to everyone(as i said before, you will be better off just buying a set instead of crafting it yourself)

3. Keep in freaking mind that we are on day 4 of the cap. You do absolutely have no right to complain about not having your stuff on day 4. For real. Calm the shit down people.

1. You're right that they can play how they want, but i imagine some people bought bps before there was lv 6 guild and wanted to craft them when they could.

2. 100k / 100 is 1k per person by that logic.

3. I'm aware of the day of cap we're on, but this isn't just for this cap, it's for the next ones too.

Also it's kind of rude to say "i didn't read your full post". just saying

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, LCPie said:

I am fully aware that this is just going to get shut down by the community, but i think that their should be a limit on the tax rate for using other guild's towns. For such a new server, tax rates and price gouging is just a move that's going to stop the flow of the game, especially for pvp circumstances. It would make the pvp dry until the rest of the server can get caught up. I'm aware that TW is bugged in the game right now at the time I'm going to be posting this, but far as i can see, the other level 5 guilds aren't close to getting a level 6 guild to give competition.

We have new people playing and frankly, with my group that I want to play with, my uni friends who are playing this game for the first time, not even coming from another server. We're a small group, and not going to be able to get very far even in pve if we can't get the gears that the rest of the server would want us to have to run trials. Right now we aren't quite far in our characters, but it's quite obvious to see that we aren't going to even be really allowed to try for lv 58/60 gears when we get there soon because we won't be able to afford it. No guild at this point should be allowed to have 1000% tax, and price gouge lv 58/60 sets, it's not helpful in any way for this server.

The max tax rate that a guild leader should be allowed to set should be at the very most 50-60%. GUILDS GET GOLD WHEN PEOPLE ACTUALLY USE THEIR TOWN, use dungeons to get your own gold, that how you're supposed to get it, not price gouging your peers.

I know this might be "against" the classic experience, I played on Aeria, i knew there were guilds who raised their tax when they got uncommon crafting merchants that everyone needed, but it's honestly toxic and ruins the game for a lot of people, especially for the new players, for the who just want to enjoy the game and the people who can't afford to spend the money to get VGN to get the gold they need to buy the price gouged sets. I don't even know if the tax % cap could be set either, but i at the very least want this to be out there.

 

Edit: I am fully aware that they are allowed to set their tax this way, and we can't do anything about it than voice our opinion on it, this is that. This is my opinion, it is what i think would help the server, i know that this is "normal" but we could change it so it's friendly to the people who may be playing the game by themselves as a hobby or something.

 

There are a lot of problems with setting limitations on a guild's tax rate. It creates precedent for the future when players do not like what others are doing when they are fully entitled to do what they are doing. The guilds that are constantly grinding out the fame and gold to level up their guild should be rewarded, whether its through gold that will be earned through taxes or other means. Aside from guild repair and guild level ups, the guild gold is relatively worthless; there is no way to get it out of the guild for players to actually use. A maximum tax rate seems silly as the players are not forced to use these guild towns. While SweetDreams may be the only guild that is capable of crafting new level 60 gear, it is also day 3 of the level cap/content cap. 

You or any other player are not required to use their guild town in any capacity, nor do they expect you to at these outrageous tax rates. There will always be a few outliers that will use it regardless of the tax, it is evident in who's crafting certain items through it while being out of their guild (focus is on LCK 3 Fatal / Elimination gems with this). Be patient like most players will be and a guild will eventually level up and they will have a lowered tax. As soon as another guild with a foundry reaches level 6 both of them will lower tax, it always happens. 

With the exception of a few level 60 oranges and the accessibility to level 3 racial gems, the level 6 guild town is kind of useless anyway. The armor sets people are mass-producing to try to create a monopoly (which failed, because every member in their guild is trying to undercut one another and make any money they can) are not even optimal sets. You'd be wasting your time and/or money using these sets (there are exceptions obviously, but very few).

Your input about the Aeria server and tax rates is just wrong. Every top guild had a 1,000% tax rate regardless of their "uncommon" or common NPCs. This was a common thing back then and most people did not complain about it. It was a way to deter other players outside of their guild from progressing and beating their competition. 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought I was the only one thinking the tax was ridiculous in some towns. While there is no real rule that prevent such taxes to be set, there is something called ethics which appears to be lacking in some guilds.
I am not really affected directly by this tax change but I'm concerned about other players who might get bad experience in this game because of this. EE community is not that big and might get smaller after Coronavirus containment, I wish we can help each other instead of being selfish.
At the end, each player/guild is free to play however they want to, including being a d***.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll go deeper on why I'm upset about what is happening.

First, I want to be clear on one thing : I understand the fact that the first guild to achieve guild town lvl 6 has to be rewarded.

HOWEVER. I really disagree with Matt's explanations and I'll explain why.

1) Guilds are fully entitled to do what they are doing : For me it's a fact, not an argument. Being entitled to do something doesn't mean what you're doing is just, honest, or flawless. Futhermore, it leads in a situation where a few people can have everything, and the others nothing. I'm okay with the fact that you have to pay for what you want to possess, but it always works with an idea of equity => I'll make you pay the value of the item, and a little bit more to gain money. (here it's not the case)

2) Players are not required to use the guild town, and SweetDreams doesn't expect us to do so. Well you're right, we could just wait.

But then you have to admit that a guild that can provide new content stuff BLOCKS this access to the content to any player out of their guild to make personal profit is selfish, unethical, and this applies when you're day 1, day 30, or day 365 after the release of the new content. This argument of "it's only 3 days after the release" is to me, again, a non-valid argument. So what ? The first days, is it fine to be an asshole ? No. This kind of selfish behavior just make a part of the community wait, it's being at your feet just because you decided it has to be this way. I believe it's not acceptable.

3) Crafting the lvl 60 sets is a waste of time. Here we go, more and more in the fallacious arguments. Already that you defend the ones who block the content, but to defend them you're now deciding arbitrarily what content is good or not and indirectly telling people what to do. I'm a lvl 60 player, and I want to craft my lvl 60 set that I prepared a few days ago because I'm enjoying it. But I can't play the way I want, for the reasons I already mentionned before. Players should be able to play how they want, when they want, as long as they respect each others. It's call FREEDOM.

4) 1000% tax rate was a common thing back then as a way to deter others players to compete.  I can't believe you said that !

So, according to what you said before, those lvl 60 sets are pretty bad, except a few of them. BUT are they good enough to make you fear competition ? :D It's been a moment that you started contradict yourself in your arguments. If those sets are bad, this argument has no value at all. Also, a rule being a common thing a  while ago isn't  concrete proof of it being a good rule.

Now that I reviewed your arguments, i'll display mines.

1) First guild to have monopoly on something has to be rewarded. Yes ! and it's natural. But as it has been said before, upgrading a guild town to lvl 6 doesn't seem to cost THAT much. Rewarding, fine (50% tax maybe, gg wp) ; 1000% taxing isn't a reward, it's pure greed.

I'll go further in my explanation because a lot of ppl in the game were giving me this argument : just wait, maybe go craft your items in other guild towns, blabla.... but guess what.

Did you see those other guild towns (Hello Endgame and LaRepublique) with a 50% tax ? They had a 15% tax right before the maint. So I thought a bit about that, and It's obvious when you look at it : they also have the npcs who sells lvl 60 sets bps.

Of course ! People don't want to buy those bps with a 1000% tax rate, so what will they do ? They will search for others guild towns to get those bps with a lower tax rate. And those guilds, are taking advantage of the situation to go through our pockets. Now it's not one guild town unaccessable, but 3 (4 if we include 911) for poor players. Will you tell us that we have to wait again? 

Now that was can see this situation, is this argument "We need a reward" still convincing ? No. This situation is taking hostage a part of the community from playing, because a few selfish and unethical people wants to make benefits. 

- Now that I talked about my point of vue, it's time to have a rant.

This morning, I wanted to enjoy the new content by making crafts, and when I saw this abusive taxing everywhere, I got upset.

I shared my point of vue on the situation in world chat (maybe not a great idea...), while being respectful and non-insulting to anyone. Maybe I was naive, but I felt REALLY sad when I saw all those angry people barking at me, saying that I'm a cry baby, that I had to quit the game if the situation didn't please me, that I had to make my own lvl 6 guild and that I needed to stop complaining.

This part is more personal, but I think it's interesting to talk about that too. For me, complaining isn't a bad thing, (it has to be constructive tho). But this morning, I wasn't complaining for the sake of complaining, I was denouncing an injustice. A lot of people were angry at me just because I was complaining, not seeing the ideas I wanted to share. In my opinion, complaining is the best thing we can do to make this server better for everyone. It also works in the real world : any world we live isn't rigid, it lives with us. The rules are the rules we decided to make and apply, and sometimes rules are wrong. It our duty as part of this community to denounce abusive rules, even if it costs a few of us to be disparaged or insulted. Please, take a step back from the situation, and think about what could be the best for everyone.

Also, to infantilize me like that as an argument is childish and shows that some people doesn't have any relevant argument to share. If you infantilize or make fun of the one sharing his point of view, you already lost. I used the word "lost" here, because I saw that some ppl were apprehending debates as a fight, and not as an exchange between different points of vue.

Furthermore, please take in consideration the part of the community who can't play all day or put all their salary into the game. Telling me that I needed to make my own lvl 6 guild is a joke at this point, not an argument. Players who want to have a little good time to enjoy on this server needs to have access to the content the same way as the others, without discrimination.

To finish with this part, telling me that I had to quit the game if the situation didn't please me is at the same level of stupidity. (sorry for the bad word D:) . I feel bad about having to talk about this, but I guess I have to. Being this close-minded is revolting, but it's understandable coming from the players benefiting from this system, they won't want things to change. I hope we will be able to form an open-minded community who cares about each other during those difficult times. There is ONE Eden Eternal Vendetta, and making it a super privileged VIP club with only people who won't criticize anything would sign the end of everything (again it also works in real life). I also think it's shameful that a GS (Herakles) promotes this kind of behavior instead of promoting discussion and open-mindness.

I want to thank warmly the ones who supported me, I also want to thank the ones who accepted to talk about this topic calmly and respectfully, and take care guys :)

(Maybe my english isn't perfect, english isn't my mother tongue language, but I did my best)

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Adonys said:

3) Crafting the lvl 60 sets is a waste of time. Here we go, more and more in the fallacious arguments. Already that you defend the ones who block the content, but to defend them you're now deciding arbitrarily what content is good or not and indirectly telling people what to do. I'm a lvl 60 player, and I want to craft my lvl 60 set that I prepared a few days ago because I'm enjoying it. But I can't play the way I want, for the reasons I already mentionned before. Players should be able to play how they want, when they want, as long as they respect each others. It's call FREEDOM.

 

 

 

 

These are not fallacious arguments, it is proven through math. The sets that are crafted are significantly worse overall compared to sets you would receive or use from the fame shops in Aven or armor boxes. With the EXCEPTION to the healer set(which at level 60 cap, is inefficient in comparison to Time Rocket set but not as much as the other sets are). These sets that are crafted through the foundry are for lazy players who do not want to get fame/grind arena for their sets. They are worse in every aspect and if you do the math yourself you'd see it for yourself. I'm not gonna bother responding to the rest of your wall of text because it's poorly formatted and I do not want to sift through it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM

I think tbh this is a player issue rather than a guild issue and if you take away there abillity to set high tax it will just result in people getting toxic with other things like telling there guild at x time we're going to put up this npc for 1hr then we'll remove it etc etc.

This really should be a place where GM's have to get involved as if we do then the next scummy thing a player does we also have set the standard that we should get involved then when we refuse the players cry out-rage about it and say we're bias or playing the favourite card.

There is plenty of guilds active right now and there is plenty of guild towns leveling with less tax. So help them level talk to the leaders and ask them if they're going to follow suite with the high tax war. Just remember every guild is in the same boat, you can only have 3 buildings. If one guild wants to be asses and put there foundry at 1000% tax, what happens when other guilds do the same and said guilds need to use a Magic Pool or any other of the build types. With this attitude and like with previous servers it only lasts so long before the top guilds talk to each other and agree on lowering things. Happened on Aeria and on our Awaken Server.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

GMs shouldn't get invovled with this simply because people can put whatever the tax they want.
Do I like that they are using this high taxes? No. But they are the one who spent their time leveling guild and now they're trying to profit with everything they have protected by 1000% tax, so we have to choose to either buy from them or crafting with this tax.
We have several ways to respond to that: Leveling other guilds to 6 with lower taxes, so people stop using their foundry, leveling other guilds to 6 with same tax so they have to agree with lowering it or paying same tax to use or even refusing to sell stuff to SD members or sell it with 10x normal price.
They're profiting from people lazyness to level up other guilds.
We could pick 2 guilds to level up to 6 with farm/mine/altar/alchemylab/magicpool/fundry as a community. I know it requires a lot of gold and/or time but it requires less gold than keep buying overpriced stuff from people who control the only level 6 guild, if everyone start to help.
That's way more resonable than asking GMs to fix a problem we are creating ourselves..

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Jordan said:

With this attitude and like with previous servers it only lasts so long before the top guilds talk to each other and agree on lowering things. Happened on Aeria and on our Awaken Server.

BTW most guilds don't want to level to 6 because it consumes to much gold to do fame using foundry/alchemy lab and to much time doing it with QGs

So people either start thinking about how to fix it as a community or accept the fact you have to pay 1000% tax until they feel like lowering it.

(And in case people don't know, crafting stuff in other guild give them fame so it's possible to pick 2 guilds to level up even without joining it [I know this should be obvious, but I saw some 5+ years experienced people that didn't knew about that])
 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well let's say sd to lower the tax to 0% and we take advantage of creating another rule, that no guild less than level 6 participates in TW, or is it very silly what I'm saying? Why sd had to waste time and gold to upload his guild and the other guilds took advantage of that to trial and run dgn?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I already answered those kind of dumbs answers, there is no interest on answering again.

I think you're wrong saying it's only a player issue : this problem impacts a lot of players, and only a few of them are talking about it : the reason about it is that as I already said, a lot of other players like EL DIOS, LawStyles or El Innombrable are insulting or denigrating the ones complaining about the situation, being irrespectful and giving no argument at all.

You can't deny the fact that tax rates increased a lot the past few days, as I already mentionned Endgame and LaRepublique.

Players being this aggressive while we just discuss about the facts can also be taken as the proof that they have something to protect. What is happening is so obvious that you can only be in denial of fact.

Jordan basically said that he didn't want to be involved in a community issue (which is shameful for someone who has to do so), putting aside a part of the community.

Also, not doing anything because "people would become toxic" is again, not an argument. You're not giving any answers or any consideration to the people having trouble to play the game because of the greed of a few people.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 4/21/2020 at 2:12 PM, Adonys said:

I already answered those kind of dumbs answers, there is no interest on answering again.

I think you're wrong saying it's only a player issue : this problem impacts a lot of players, and only a few of them are talking about it : the reason about it is that as I already said, a lot of other players like EL DIOS, LawStyles or El Innombrable are insulting or denigrating the ones complaining about the situation, being irrespectful and giving no argument at all.

You can't deny the fact that tax rates increased a lot the past few days, as I already mentionned Endgame and LaRepublique.

Players being this aggressive while we just discuss about the facts can also be taken as the proof that they have something to protect. What is happening is so obvious that you can only be in denial of fact.

Jordan basically said that he didn't want to be involved in a community issue (which is shameful for someone who has to do so), putting aside a part of the community.

Also, not doing anything because "people would become toxic" is again, not an argument. You're not giving any answers or any consideration to the people having trouble to play the game because of the greed of a few people.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

This being a player issue has nothing to do with the amount of people being annoyed by the exclusivity created through the high tax rates. Jordan and others simply refer to the fact that this is an issue of moral and ethics and he won't intervene as when new issues where people decide against playing with an emphasis on other people and fun (and there will be), he and the other GMs will be the ones that have to intervene again. The team will always lose as they would have to constantly favor one side resulting in the other side calling them biased at some point.

As this seems inevitable, I totally agree with Jordan that this is something you either discuss and resolve among your counterparts or just leave it as is, waiting for some other guild to become level 6. Everything else reminds me of kindergarten.

Edit: I should add that I also support the idea that people who worked hard to be the first ones to be level 6 should be allowed to reward themselves. If they choose exclusivity, so be it. Other guilds will become level 6 just as quickly if they see the need.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Adonys said:

Players being this aggressive while we just discuss about the facts can also be taken as the proof that they have something to protect. What is happening is so obvious that you can only be in denial of fact.

Jordan basically said that he didn't want to be involved in a community issue (which is shameful for someone who has to do so), putting aside a part of the community.

Also, not doing anything because "people would become toxic" is again, not an argument. You're not giving any answers or any consideration to the people having trouble to play the game because of the greed of a few people.

You are a prime example of the so called "toxic casual". You ain't any better than them in the way you write your stuff man.

Also the tax rate is a ingame given thing. Don't imply that it's something against the rules that GMs should care about my dude. If people were throwing actual insults and starting ragewars, GS/GM will step in(as you saw on day 1 of your argument when you started it in world/peer) if stuff actually goes too far >>>> AGAINST THE RULES <<<<< Again, a high tax rate is NOTHING against ANY rules. You say it's sad that GMs don't step in, but sorry man, that's the dumbest thing i've read in a while. It's the other way around even.. If GMs would step in and manually put their taxes down, you'd bbe the one headpatted by the GMs and favorized(but that wouldn't be too bad for you, huh?)

I honestly don't get how on a p-server with such near endless possibilities and things to do, people keep finding stuff to cry about all the time. This thread should've been shut down at the very start already since it gives literally nothing to anyone. 

TL;DR of the whole thread: QQ maaamiiiii the taxes are too high <- dude they spent way over 100k, maybe even nearing 150k(mats for pushing fame, guild repairs, level up itself) give them some time to get in moneys before aother guild pushes. It's week 1 of the cap <- but QQ this is so unfaiiiiiiirr

welp, whatever i guess

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...