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An Idea to realize %-Based-TW


Skyrith
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Hello everyone, hope you’re having a great day!
So quite some time ago, a friend of mine suggested to revert the TW system back to what it was on lvl 60 cap (at least on the german server) in order to make it more motivating for weaker guilds to take part.
You can read the Thread here:

Kibo also made another Thread formulating the Pro’s of this System very well.


However, there was a big gap between the People who are for this system, and those who are against it, for different reasons. But i recently got an Idea that might be able to please both sides.

Disclaimers:
1. Before reading this post, please get an overview about this topic from the other Threads. This is probably crucial to better understand everyone commenting on this and prevent misunderstandings. i will try however to summarize everything important so everyone has the chance to take part in this discussion.
2. As the original Thread got closed due some players talking off-topic and started insulting each other (it is a really debateable topic tbh.). However, I kindly ask you to leave this thread if you don’t plan on talking about this constructively. There has been a lot of toxicity lately in the forums and i don’t want this discussion to be closed again because some players can‘t get a hold of themselves.
3. I’m not a fan of that only one guild gets to win a territory – Because TW actually seems like to be some kind of Team-Effort of the different guilds being on either the red or blue faction. But changing that is probably a big hurdle, so instead
i tried to simply merge the good sides of either System, so it doesn’t differ too much from the classic feeling.

First, i will give you a quick summary of both the Point-Based-TW (which is the one we currently have on both the Awaken and the Classic Server) and the very old %-Based-TW.
(Note: if you are familiar with the current TW and read the original Thread about the %-Based - You can jump to „the Points-%-Mixed-TW“)

The Point-Based TW
As said, this is the one most of the players should be familiar with. The Guilds try to cap the Crystals, which gives them points based on the Rank you achieved by dealing the most damage to it.
1st place gets 200 pts
2nd Place gets 180pts
3rd Place  gets 160 pts
4th place gets 140 pts (Correct me if i’m wrong)
In Addition to that, a guild gets rewarded with 1 point per Kill (not counting killing the same enemy multiple times)
In the End, the Guild that was able to achieve the most amount of Points wins the War and gets the territory.


However, i personally see a huge problem with that. Guilds have to work together in one Faction in order to repel the Enemies from the capped Crystals – but that one guild, that got the most points is the overall winner, completely ignoring all the efforts of the other guilds, that helped this faction to win.
So this TW is really frustrating for smaller or medium sized guilds, that might be able to get a really solid 10-man party that plays an important role when fighting for the faction .
I remember a while back, when we in OwO-Guild had 3x most Damage at crystals with well equipped Crystal-DPS, but we just couldn’t keep up with the kills that other guilds got because they had triple the amount of players. If this happens regularly to you, then it becomes really frustrating and i’m currently sensing a big loss of PvP activity because there is never really a point in trying to win for us and guilds with a similar problem.

This Problem sparked the Idea of reverting the current TW-System to what it was in the very beginning.

The %-Based-TW
As seen in the videos in the original Thread, you can see that up to 3 guilds get an 8,3% Chance each of winning the territory for every Crystal that was capped. (25% per Crystal, splitting up to 3x 8,3% for the guilds that dealt the most Damage).
So a strong guild, that deals damage to the crystals and got all 4 crystals for their faction, gets a total amount of 33,2% Chance of winning the territory. (Please watch the video for better understanding).
(Example: So if lets say the red faction with Guild A,B,C,D capped all crystals. On 3 Crystals the guild A,B and C Dealt the most damage while on the forth Crystals Guild A,B and D dealt the most damage. That means that Guild A and B have a 4x 8,3% of Winning – 33,2% each in Total; Guild C has a 3x 8,3% Chance, so around 25% in Total; and Guild D has a 1x 8,3% Chance to win the territory.
So regardless if you have „THE MOST“ Damage on the Crystal, and regardless of the amount of kills your Guild got, there is just a -Chance- at winning the Territory for your Guild.)

And that started a huge controversy. Because that could mean that a 1-player-Guild can easily get a Territory if they just deal enough Damage to the Crystals.
That could also mean that the Losing side can actually win if they manage to cap and defend one Crystal (Which is actually awesome in my opinion).

So, yesterday i came up with an Idea that includes both TW-Systems; Let me Explain:

 - - - - - This is the actual suggestion - - - - -


The Points-%-Mixed-TW

(This is just an example to explain the logic)
xuJYRTd.png
So, we keep the Point-Based TW as it is – meaning Crystals DMG gives lots of Points depending on most, second-most, third-most and fourth-most Damage. We also keep the System that 1 kill gives 1 point (not counting the same person)
The Change i’d like to suggest it that after TW ends, The Points of both sides get accumulated.

In This Example the Red Faction gets 479+204+184+182+160+149 Points
Team Red Points: 1358
Team Blue Points: 485+241+2 = 728
After the Points have been added, the Winning Side will be decided by which side has more Points. In This Case Team Red. It’s important to know which „Side“ wins because only the winning side gets sent additional Chests that contain Warstones (1 for Winning, 1 per Crystal that you – as an individual player – hit and 1 for each „sword“ above your heard due to the amount of kills you achieved)
(i’m Btw not a Fan that the losing side didnt get anything for the efforts – but thats how it is)


Now, which guild gets the territory?
This is where i want to include the %-Based TW. After the Total Amount of Points are calculated, Each Guild, that contributed to this Number, gets a % of getting the Territory. So if Red Wins, and Red got 1358 (=100%) Points, then the Chance of getting the Territory is the following:
NoFear: 35,27% (479/1358)
BloodTears: 15,02% (204/1358)
Celestial: 13,55% (184/1358)
… And so on, you get the point.


So, whats to great about this mixed System?
I think this is great as it motivates even smaller guilds to participate because there is a chance for them to win too even if they are not the best of the best. It also rewards the strong guilds because with most damage and lots of kills, their chance of winning is significantly higher.
I also think that this System makes the guilds to take the fight from the start until the very end serious because every single kill counts as it adds to their % of winning. (You can’t really say the same about stomping-TWs where you are pretty much done for if you dont have most Damage, or Shura Map where usually just the last 5-10mins count)


 

Summary:
IMO TW is not really about actually getting the territory (right now you get like 40G per Day per Territory at lvl 60 – you can get the same amount of Gold by farming in Highlands in just 1/10 of the Time if you count in preperation Time like Event Buffs and banquets)
The Chest you get from the Townsman is also not really that worth it as it usually just containt 3,6 oder 18 CCM and sometimes like 1-2 Warstones
So What exactly is the reward for Winning TW? Participating and winning TW is just about Fun and Honor – having your Guild’s Name displayed at the end, and thus getting appreciation and attention. And Thats completely fine. However, i think that TW is a Team-based Effort of all Guilds on one Faction, but it doesn’t feel like that at all.

Point-Based-TW:
Pros:

  • strong guilds WILL get rewarded because they will always win if they did enough dmg and kills

Cons:

  • Always the same 3-4 Guilds will win the TW – it’s frustrating for weaker guilds, even when they contributed to the Victory (because maybe the Strong guild wouldn’t even have won without the help of the smaller guilds to defend crystals)
  • Guilds within one team fight „Each other“ (like letting Belk die to hopefully let the Rays destroy a crystal so a guild has another Chance of getting most-damage if they didn’t had that before)

%-Based-TW
Pros:

  • almost every Guild has a chance of Winning, motivating weaker guilds to at least try - making pvp more active in the long run

Cons:

  • almost every Guild has a chance of Winning (even 1-man-guilds by just doing damage to crystals). It might feel unfair to those, who prepared very well and lose the war because of RNG

Debateable:

  • A guild from the Losing side has the chance of winning

Mixed-Based-TW:
Pros:

  • Every Guild tries to do their best as they have a chance of winning
  • even if they don’t get the Territory necessarily – it at least feels much more rewarding because that your Faction won is thanks to your guild too (because you contributed with your points to the total amount)
  • Players fight from start to finish because every Damaged Crystal and every single kill Counts
  • Stronger Guilds are more likely to win compared to smaller guilds – showing their „superiority“ if you want to say it like that

Cons:

  • the Winning of a Territory is RNG in the End – however – if you really want to show everyone that your Guild is the best, then do so in GvG as this is a much better fitting place to show your strength. TW imo is a team-based effort and i don’t think it is suited to display the „best guild“ but rather the „best guilds“ working together, simply assigning a Territory to one of its contributors – which isn’t that big of a deal (40g and a chest of CCM…)



I put much more effort in this Topic than for my university this whole week...
I Hope you appreciate it and aren’t too overwhelmed by the amount of Text. I really want to see your Opinions about this because i think that can hugely affect the activity and the Way of Thinking about TW.
Let me know if you see any Problems which i might have missed (for example, only let the top5 or 6 guilds per Faction be listed in the Contribution to prevent 1-man-guilds of winning for barely any effort [Because Crystaldmg gives lots of points])

 

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Since everyone commenting here actually wrote my own thread, you know that i can and will only agree with this.

Plus i think the Suggestion is a very very fair and solid middle ground inbetween helping out smaller guilds(not as in trashcans but as in people who may be geared well and good players but simply don't have 40 players for every TW) and still not making it "unfair" for the "best guilds".

 

Let me note: i already wrote around 60 lines of text but for fairness and on-topics sake decided to trash them and leave just what i wrote above, since to be really honest nothing else is really important. P.S. if you really understand what the topic is about, you know why i put " " on the words unfair and best guilds.

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Ok so I just spent about 30 minutes and then accidently knocked the side button on my mouse and it went back a page and lost the entire post... So heres to try again (Sorry if something feels to breif).

 

First all I'd like to mention that I appreciate seeing a post that isn't just a fat block of text and actually has strong points and not just I want I want. So thank you.

 

Now getting into my response, I do agree with a lot of the points you bring on, specifically to name them:

  • Guilds who contribute to a win deserve more of the Glory.
  • Guilds with a lot of members should not just be able to out kill peoples victories on crystals.

 

However, there are a couple of niche and circumstantial points that you missed / overlooked on your post.

For first thing it's all well and good saying your guild of 10 people who helped defend a crystal contributed to a win there for you deserve a chance for some glory. However, does that one person who is in a random guild whos just tabbing the crystal comes last on a couple but still has a chance to win? Its a very hard decision as I know if it was me I'd be pissed if some random guild with 1 or 2 people won over guilds with 20-30+ geared people just because they hit a crystal once or twice. Like just looking at your example image, does Phi deseve to win over Juguito?

The other big point I'd like to make is your suggestion has one big massive flaw in it. If you make teams accumulate points there is a good number of territories that from the second people spawn in you're declaring a winner before it's even started. No matter what, there is always a chance in this current system for a guild to out-stratergize even when on a very under-developed team. If they can ninja cap or force people off a crystal last minute they could potentiall flip the tide, this adding a new layer of strategy. I can't count the amount of TW's I won because we last minute capped a crystal and I can also say the flip side of where my guildies would get careless and neglect watching a crystal then losing it last second. This is something that should be able to happen as it keeps people on their toes and makes people less likely to just leave when they're on the recieving end of a one sided TW. As with your proposed system they'd have a pretty much 100% chance to lose unless there is enough kills to offset 4-5 guilds worth of kills and crystals.

I also don't really think you should undervalue the meaning of TW. It's not just for fun for most people, it like most PvP modes is a competition. Ego matters whether you agree or not and just looking at the amount of drama this game has you'd understand that what I just said is 100% true no matter how stupid it sounds. People care a lot for winning their TW's first and honestly speaking from the Awaken server stand point, people cared less for GVG than they did for TW.

 

Now this isn't me saying that your suggestion is terible. However, I don't think it solves many problems and for some of the problems it does solve it also creates problems. So I think its the right thought track but needs some extra ideas.

In my opinion there should always be a way for a guild to earn 100% chance to win. People put work into coordinating preparing and strategizing for this mode. This shouldn't be undervalued. Like baring in mind I've been awake over 24hours at this point here is somethings that come to mind and I might look at it tommorow and think I made some mistakes but just take it as a suggestion or something to think about:

  • If you win 4 crystals and have over 60% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win.
  • If you win 3 crystals and have over 75% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win.

Some conditions like that wouldn't go a miss, as you can't really argue that "ohh we contributed we deserve a chance" when with conditions like that you could easily throw one of the other top 3-4 guilds on the other team and the outcome may still be the same.

 

One thing a game I was playing a few months ago does might be a semi-decent idea too. It had guild based "DPS events" where your guild would be ranked on damage dealt to a boss (Similar to the crystals now but whole guild damage not just best from that guild damage). Then top 3 guilds on the boss would unlock special rewards they can purchase with various currencies. It might not be terrible to say give everyone in the top 3 guilds some form of medal or currency they can then spend on some exclusive costume skins or maybe some other type of reward like class medals or even some very limited ec/ep/ss. Just something to think about.

 

I might have more to add when I wake up but for now I'm too tired to continue and I'm really bummed about writing this twice.

 

TL;DR Shouldn't be random always as there is a lot of cases where 1 guild clearly does the majority of the work and deserve the win. Shouldn't remove all hope from an already downed enemy team. Shouldn't allow random Joe to hit the crystal once and win a TW. More rewards for winning encouraging people to work together more wouldn't go a miss (I know there is instances where guilds do work together, but more often than not they don't).

 

Side note: almost forgot. I don't agree the % system will change the con listed for the point system of "Guilds fight within the team with elements like Belk and Rays". Aslong as being first on the crystal gives you more chance to win guilds will always fight among themselves within the team, no % or point system will change that.

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Personally I don't mind the % based system. Back in the day when it was implemented it was funny to see the territory go to a random guild, even though it did not happen that often. And I was in a guild that was among the strongest ones. Also when I or those in my guild go to a tw, we go always with the intention of making our side win, that means helping defend the crystals that we are not top of. Salary is not that big of a deal, especially since the salary boxes no longer are 100% warstones (with an odd painting thrown in the mix).

 

I think the problem lies in that territory wars tend to get one sided and spawn killing and hunting questers is mandatory for the guilds that want to get the territory.  People tend to flock to the strongest guild because of the salary and easy gvg boxes. Maybe reverting the system would make more people think twice in which guild they are in since they would still be able to win? More level playing field would be nice, but how to achieve that is a difficult question.

 

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I can't count in my fingers how many TWs I lost because the smaller enemy guilds was backing up the stronger one. I agree that they deserve a chance to win. 

15 hours ago, Jordan said:

However, does that one person who is in a random guild whos just tabbing the crystal comes last on a couple but still has a chance to win?

Couldn't a formula that calculate a "minimum effort needed" to get a chance to win fix that? Or maybe only guilds on top 3 of the winning side has a chance to win...

15 hours ago, Jordan said:

In my opinion there should always be a way for a guild to earn 100% chance to win. People put work into coordinating preparing and strategizing for this mode. This shouldn't be undervalued. Like baring in mind I've been awake over 24hours at this point here is somethings that come to mind and I might look at it tommorow and think I made some mistakes but just take it as a suggestion or something to think about:

  • If you win 4 crystals and have over 60% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win.
  • If you win 3 crystals and have over 75% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win.

Some conditions like that wouldn't go a miss, as you can't really argue that "ohh we contributed we deserve a chance" when with conditions like that you could easily throw one of the other top 3-4 guilds on the other team and the outcome may still be the same.

I agree. That way the players will never give up on trying to get stronger and create new strategies to get the 100%.

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20 hours ago, Sasori said:

Couldn't a formula that calculate a "minimum effort needed" to get a chance to win fix that? Or maybe only guilds on top 3 of the winning side has a chance to win...

I agree. That way the players will never give up on trying to get stronger and create new strategies to get the 100%.

The problem I would be faced with is like this.

  • What should be considered minimum effort (3rd or higher on a crystal? 1st on atleast one crystal? Getting atleast 1 kill for each 1 member?).
  • What should be considered winnable by the most chance to the least chance?
  • What should be considered a 100% win and can it be manipulated by the higher guilds to always force a win?

This is only but a few examples. However, the topic is very good place to speculate some ideas.

 

As for the original post and a possible solution without really changing the system to percentages there is a somewhat idea could be the the following (Please do not take this as going off topic as it is directly related to the topic about lower guilds not getting wins they might deserve a chance to have which is the underlying reason of adding a % system back to begin with):

One idea I had when discussing such a topic with someone is the possibillity to maybe include some sort of extra PvP mode that would be directly effected by TW contribution.

So just to give a smaller kinda summery on what was thought of...

So when participating in a TW every day there would be an either or scenario that could work.

  1. The first situation could be based one some form of contribution, kills per member, rankings on a crystal or simpler placement on the team.
  2. The other option/situation could balance it between the 2 teams, so maybe 4 guilds from the winning Team and 2 Guilds from losing team.

Then these guilds would be shuffled into a match that could either take place after TW or before TW on the next day where they'd have a somewhat 1v1 match against each other which could take place as a similar format to TW 1.0 where you have attackers and defenders

Then winning those smaller matches could open the possibillity of some form of monthly / bi-weekly / weekly GvG type bracket on the weekend that could either be based on a revamped Guild Arena from Awaken designed for the lower contant or just simply the GvG format. Then depending on the frequency can depend on how good the rewards from this mode would be.

 

Now before anyone claims this is off topic let me explain why I mentioned it.

This would improve the reason for smaller guilds to try in TW's as even if they don't win they can still qualify for these special matches where they can earn points for the bigger event at the end. This would mean their overall rewards and participation would be increased there for increasing the fun aspect and also the prize aspect of TW. We would also make the points earned from the second match be directly linked to not only a win but also the amount of effort required to win. So if its a 5 min stomp the winner would get less points and the weaker guild would get little to no points. However, if the match lasts for say the full duration, then you could see the weaker guild getting more points that other guilds who won in other matches due to having a longer and more stand out match.

This ties into the topic as one of the main elements the OP has discussed was the fact that smaller guilds with no hope of out killing or out capping cannot get wins even though without said guild they may not have even won the match. Making them a crucial and unrewarded member of the team. This would be aimed at making the winning team have more chance at points and also try to combat the good ole "We're capped so we don't need to try attitude".

 

But anyway... thats just a thought that came to my mind that could maybe increase the PvP activities per day in a positive way since I've been asked several times for extra TW's on weekdays and also it can be aimed at rewarding those 2nd and 3rd place guilds who where crucial to the win by giving them access to more PvP to enjoy and more rewards to obtain. If people would want me to open a bigger discussion on this to save this post for the original purpose of % systems and that then I can happily do so, I just thought I'd throw the idea out there see what people think and if people think its a good idea I can open a much more detailed topic with more of the nitty gritty details of it.

So please don't turn this topic into just my ideas but a simple comment during your responses to the OP about if you think its a good or bad idea to help remedy the situation wouldn't go a miss.

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So I like that we now actually discuss this topic.

I like the mixed system that OP suggests as well as your idea Jordan, so that placing from like 1st to 3rd on the crystal can give you special rewards/tokens/ whatever. 

About your last suggestion though, i don't know what to think about it honestly. I can only talk for myself here obviously, but Guild Arena didn't matter at all in my perspective. I can't even remember someone taking it that seriously (maybe just my view, could have been important for some guilds though).

Therefore I'm not a big fan of just another 1vs1 Guild-Match-System. I think a TW with rewards that are a bit more emphasizing to participate could already be enough.

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On 5/22/2020 at 3:04 AM, Jordan said:
  • Guilds who contribute to a win deserve more of the Glory.
  • Guilds with a lot of members should not just be able to out kill peoples victories on crystals.

You summarized my main Problems with the current TW very well there. All i really want is to be able to motivate my friends to stay up late and fight in TW - which isn't possible with the current System because of said problems. So this Thread was just about an Idea on how it could be fixed. Though i do agree that this isn't completely fleshed out yet.

On 5/22/2020 at 3:04 AM, Jordan said:

TL;DR Shouldn't be random always as there is a lot of cases where 1 guild clearly does the majority of the work and deserve the win. Shouldn't remove all hope from an already downed enemy team. Shouldn't allow random Joe to hit the crystal once and win a TW.

I agree with all of this.

  • If the Top guild makes that much of a difference by doing almost all of the work, then yes, a system like you adviced (If you win 4 crystals and have over 60% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win. If you win 3 crystals and have over 75% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win.) could help out with that.

    But it's hard to decide what exactly these requirements would be. Would be nice to see more peoples opinion on this.

    Also something to think about is why it happens that there is just one guild doing all the work on one team. Like, if the System were to change, and with that the mentality of the players, then there possibly won't be many cases where there is just "one guild doing everything" - but we can't say that for sure, as it is impossible to predict the players behavior with a different system. it also relies on what RNG decides which guild is on which team.
     
  • i also completely agree that an already downed team doesn't have any hope of winning. You proposed that maybe 4 guilds on the winner side get rewarded, as well as 2 guilds of the loser side - and i think that's great

    That also goes hand in hand with my personal problem, that the loser side never gets anything out of TW, no matter the effort because the side is just that disadvantageous  - But that's just me. I mean, was there ever a case in history where the loser of a war got rewarded? But it would at least give the losing side still some hope and reason to fight.
     
  • It's true that a random 1-2man guild shouldn't be able to win so something like only the top3 guilds on either side count into the total contribution might help. That would make it much less likely to happen. otherwise we'd have to rework the points gained by the Crystal-dps-system completely.

 

Now regarding your other idea to add more PvP for the weaker guilds.
First of all, i think it's better to make a seperate topic about that. Not because it doesn't belong here (it does, because it tackles the main Problems of TW too) but because it might get overlooked by the players if it is just a sub-topic and there could be much to discuss about like how exactly it should be implemented.
Anyway, i do have some things to talk about your idea, so i'll answer here first and might copy it in case you make a seperate thread:
i'm not completely against the idea as it does have some kind of reward for the contributing guilds in TW who don't win, but i do see some problems with that:

  1. You're basically rewarding PvP by doing even more PvP - which is the same as GvG (you get an allowance to enter by gaining points through doing arena and TW). A Reward - in my opinion, should be something that can be directly received by the players.
    Like in GvG everyone in the guild gets a buff - directly influencing their stats and telling them "you did great last GvG!"
    (GGB's too, but i'm kind of unsure how to put this. Because what we usually do is to send GGBs to whoever joined in GvG - regardless how much Arena/TW they did to get us into GvG. So it only rewards those who join GvG and not anything else so i'm not sure if GGBs motivate to do more TW than necessary. Of course we can change our way of distributing our GGBs (like giving some of them to the TW-players too who can't attend GvG), but no matter how i think about this, it would just be really complicated to calculate who deserves how many and if it would make actually a difference in TW-Activity.
    I think it's better that the GvG participants get the boxes send to them directly by the Server. Then they know they got some because they participated - and not because the Guild's leader decided to let them have some - its a psychologial factor. but this also holds some problems - i don't want to talk about this as this is a different topic. Just wanted to explain the difference between getting a reward physically and directly versus indirectly and nothing to "grab").


    An even better example is the TW-Reward. Members go to the Townsman and get a salary and reward boxes. This is something that they can "physically" grab as a reward because they did great in TW.
    You could argue that gaining points to enter a different PvP mode is a reward too - but tbh i don't think anyone is constantly monitoring their points to enter GvG for example, so why would they for a different PvP mode?
    Does it really change the "Mentality" of joining and fighting in TW?
    Because to me it just seems like an incidental (is that the right word?) reward for those, who do TW anyway instead of an "Active Motivation" to be more tryhard in TW (which is what i want to accomplish).
     
  2. The Time. The PvP schedule is already quite full (depending on much arena you like to do). We in OwO love to do 10v10 Arena, pretty much 1/3 or even half of our active players regularly to 10v10. If you were to put another GuildArena/GvG-like PvP mode before TW, then people would have to decide whether they want to do arena or the new mode. (But could be nice for anyone else who doesn't care about 10v10 Arena - but there are lots of other good players from strong guilds who like to do 10v10 too). If you put it even earlier, then i guess lots of the americans can't participate because they are probably still at work. if you put it after TW then it would almsot become an American-exclusive Event because most of the Europeans will be in Bed (as this might be around midnight)
    So depending on your timezone and Arena-likings/priority, is it an active motivation to try harder in TW? For some yes, for some probably not. it would certainly motivate me, but that all depends on which time it will be

please note that i don't make these statements to prevent a new PvP-Mode from coming. As i said, it's a good idea and it's always nice to have more options so you can do what you want. These are just some problems i wanted to point out.


In the End, it's okay if the current system stays at it as, as long as there is some kind of "physical" reward for those who contribute. Would be nice to also have the losing side get something in return too, to reward the attempt of not making it a one-sided stomp fest. I especially like the idea that something like the top4 of winner's Team and Top2 of Loser's team get some kind of currency to trade for PvP-Exclusive Items/Buffs/whatever, but it has to be worthwile while NOT encouraging players to always join the top Guilds for easy rewards.

 

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21 hours ago, ASHBORN said:

About your last suggestion though, i don't know what to think about it honestly. I can only talk for myself here obviously, but Guild Arena didn't matter at all in my perspective. I can't even remember someone taking it that seriously (maybe just my view, could have been important for some guilds though).

It was bugged until this week. So hard to judge atm if that was the main cause as a lot of people have came to me asking about it for Classic.

 

52 minutes ago, Skyrith said:

You summarized my main Problems with the current TW very well there. All i really want is to be able to motivate my friends to stay up late and fight in TW - which isn't possible with the current System because of said problems. So this Thread was just about an Idea on how it could be fixed. Though i do agree that this isn't completely fleshed out yet.

I agree with all of this.

  • If the Top guild makes that much of a difference by doing almost all of the work, then yes, a system like you adviced (If you win 4 crystals and have over 60% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win. If you win 3 crystals and have over 75% the kill share of the team you should have 100% chance to win.) could help out with that.

    But it's hard to decide what exactly these requirements would be. Would be nice to see more peoples opinion on this.

    Also something to think about is why it happens that there is just one guild doing all the work on one team. Like, if the System were to change, and with that the mentality of the players, then there possibly won't be many cases where there is just "one guild doing everything" - but we can't say that for sure, as it is impossible to predict the players behavior with a different system. it also relies on what RNG decides which guild is on which team.
     
  • i also completely agree that an already downed team doesn't have any hope of winning. You proposed that maybe 4 guilds on the winner side get rewarded, as well as 2 guilds of the loser side - and i think that's great

    That also goes hand in hand with my personal problem, that the loser side never gets anything out of TW, no matter the effort because the side is just that disadvantageous  - But that's just me. I mean, was there ever a case in history where the loser of a war got rewarded? But it would at least give the losing side still some hope and reason to fight.

 

The sides aren't random its based on order of joining. But it would be hard to coordinate with people to make the matches fair and it would be hard to determine who should be on what team without manually setting it like in the past on Awaken (Which I'd rather not do as its a pain to keep on top of and always causes bias remarks).

I think maybe if someone could come up with some more balance rewards per participation then maybe we can discuss it and work out a change in reward. One thing another game I played does is gives say a side based quest in pvp like this. For example:

  • Cap 3 crystal - Get a Chest
  • Kill 100 players total - Get a Chest

As 2 easy examples and when those are complete everyone at the end of the match (Like the chests now) will recieve a reward in the mail. Some things like that could give more rewards out to all participants and can actively make guilds who are on the losing side still try to cap crystals and get kills to complete the quests / objectives. (Just as another idea).

1 hour ago, Skyrith said:

 

In the End, it's okay if the current system stays at it as, as long as there is some kind of "physical" reward for those who contribute. Would be nice to also have the losing side get something in return too, to reward the attempt of not making it a one-sided stomp fest. I especially like the idea that something like the top4 of winner's Team and Top2 of Loser's team get some kind of currency to trade for PvP-Exclusive Items/Buffs/whatever, but it has to be worthwile while NOT encouraging players to always join the top Guilds for easy rewards.

 

 

This is something we can definatly work on for sure. Also yes encouraging not merging guilds into 1 big one would be a good idea.

 

1 hour ago, Skyrith said:

 

  1. You're basically rewarding PvP by doing even more PvP - which is the same as GvG (you get an allowance to enter by gaining points through doing arena and TW). A Reward - in my opinion, should be something that can be directly received by the players.

 

Maybe I was bit unclear but basically my idea was to have better rewards within the system. So you're not just rewarded with more PvP but also reward with more opportunities to get more rewards and obviously the rewards could be better, especially on the weekend event.

 

1 hour ago, Skyrith said:

The Time. The PvP schedule is already quite full (depending on much arena you like to do). We in OwO love to do 10v10 Arena, pretty much 1/3 or even half of our active players regularly to 10v10. If you were to put another GuildArena/GvG-like PvP mode before TW, then people would have to decide whether they want to do arena or the new mode. (But could be nice for anyone else who doesn't care about 10v10 Arena - but there are lots of other good players from strong guilds who like to do 10v10 too). If you put it even earlier, then i guess lots of the americans can't participate because they are probably still at work. if you put it after TW then it would almsot become an American-exclusive Event because most of the Europeans will be in Bed (as this might be around midnight)

So depending on your timezone and Arena-likings/priority, is it an active motivation to try harder in TW? For some yes, for some probably not. it would certainly motivate me, but that all depends on which time it will be

 

Time is always an issue even with the current TW. I've been asked by asians to move it earlier / later. I've been asked by American's and South American's to move later it will always be an on going problem. Territory War in Awaken was active and there was a good number of Europian players who attended. I always believe that if the PvP is worth going to and the people actually care to join they will join at any time.

We had a number of Asian players in our guild back when I played and these people are going to TW at like 3-5am (every day) and waking up for it and then going to school/work a few hours later. I believe if someone is a PvP player and they're actually trying to win they will attend regardless of the time unless it directly conflicts with something such as work or school. Yes there is some people who will openly refuse to actually attend but atleast from my experiance with the game people who are dedicated to win will make it work.

However, I'm always trying my best to make times accommodate as many players as possible.

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On 5/23/2020 at 11:05 AM, Jordan said:

One idea I had when discussing such a topic with someone is the possibillity to maybe include some sort of extra PvP mode that would be directly effected by TW contribution.

The idea is great and Skyrith pointed important things. In my view, this new pvp does not necessarily have to be massive.

- For example, we can have a map x times larger than the 10vs10 arena and each guild can only enter with a group of 5 players (the best ones). Something like a big arena for champions. Would help guilds that can't win cause they have only a few geared players and can't attend to so many pvp massively. 

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1 minute ago, Sasori said:

The idea is great and Skyrith pointed important things. In my view, this new pvp does not necessarily have to be massive.

- For example, we can have a map x times larger than the 10vs10 arena and each guild can only enter with a group of 5 players (the best ones). Something like a big arena for champions. Would help guilds that can't win cause they have only a few geared players and can't attend to so many pvp massively. 

I think 5 players is a bit short. However, If it was decided there would be a smaller limit than GvG for sure.

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