Micene1975

Arena and racials!

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Okay I don't want to look like a cry baby or whatever it is, but are racial skills really needed in pvp? Random zumis running around with templar spamming that broken lvl 45 racial healing, frogs with no gear just to use immobilization (that's not an immobilization but a slow/stun) + tornado and randomly oneshotting geared people, bears with random insane fears, then there are halfkins a bit weakers in terms of racials and humans who have no racials at all, just make them balanced or remove them at all in small pvp arenas like 3v3 or 10v10.

I've seen people telling me to leave my human char and go make a zumi templar or a frog thief/ma, this can't be serious.
If there's not even the possibility to remove them or balance them just a little bit OKAY, but if it is actually possible do something thank you, this is boring.

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Kinda improves the variety but I see your point. Would be nice to have a poll or something on this and if the verdict is mostly in favour then I guess why not.

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I think that racial on TW, gvg, 10vs10 and maybe 3vs3 (still not sure about last one) are actually fun and add variety to pvp since even if you have no good racial other member on your party may have or you party could change classes to deal with other player clases or racials as for example using warlock/ilu against zumi tanks, using warrior to kill MDPS bears as fast as posible among others. 

However on 1vs1 those racials skill simply kill the pvp experience entirely, playing as human against a zumi on tank class is just way to unfair and anuran with blue or even green gear killing of +10 gearedf player with 2 skill is way to broken. So in my opinion arena 1vs1 really need some fix on those racial skills (at least the ones that are to broken).

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I'm fine with the "variety" thing, but my friend where's the "variety" in seeing a templar zumi running around with the healing racial when he's low so he goes back to full hp and kiting other ppl with sacred light wich actually slows? There's no counterplay to that unless u go maxed magic class and then u might have a chance, but even then why are you supposed to be forced to play a class when there are 15 classes to choose, I'm sorry that's not pvp, that's not how it works, if there's no counterplay (I say counterplay cause I main MA and as MA u can't do anything to a running templar cause can't be stunned or anything else so there's no chance for me to do anything, I will just go afk at center of the arena and let him kill me because is the only way unless I'm a frog and use my again broken racials to win, or bear with k/d but is not really effective cause templars are kinda tanky) it's not a good pvp, pvp consists in u trowing something at me and me trowing something at you, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here, my english is not really good sorry for that.

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Removing them would be a bit much but I think some nerfing is in order :P

Racials should not single-handedly win you a match.

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4 minutes ago, Micene1975 said:

MA u can't do anything to a running templar

yes is true but thats a 3vs3 arena you are not on a 1vs1 against a templar, is normal that some clases have advantage against other that is why your team has to adapt to the enemy team strategy. You for example could use spirit scar to stop at least temporaly that the templa heals itself then other party member could help you out taking that zumi. 3vs3 and 10vs10 are team pvp event so having different clases and racials just add variety to the game. 

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Anti Heal can't block zumi's healing racial, also I'm fine with a class countering another class, that's completly fine, but not a race countering another race, that's not fun, not balanced.

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11 minutes ago, Micene1975 said:

Anti Heal can't block zumi's healing racial, also I'm fine with a class countering another class, that's completly fine, but not a race countering another race, that's not fun, not balanced.

warlock counters templar. The dot can remove his buffs and you can spam the dot without cooldown. You can fear the enemy and deal alot of dmg with dark dmg spells since none cares about dark dmg res. You also have trophies which can remove the buffs of other players. 

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That's the point, why am I forced to play a class that I don't want to play cause they do enjoy abusing a racial that is just broken?
They have fun, I don't, they will win, I won't. Hope this makes you understand the point

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I do agree with the fact that zumi yellow class healing racial skill especially when they are kiting and even worst when someone is playing pdps classes which need to come close to hit them. Because right now although switching to a bow or a gun is not able to deal much damage on them because of their high defense. Beside, using -10% defense rings/-10% defense trophy/necklace -20% defense or any other equipment that reduce defense and physical resistance , does not provide other race enough damage to reduce zumi hp even worst when they are templer because they can heal and block , and the collapsing blow does not reduce enough block to allow hitting. We cannot stun, pdps cannot fear, even coming with ranger but ranger gonna be squishy because lack of defense even trying to fear and immobilize might not stop yellow class zumi frog healing and tanking. I don't know if it is because of gears not +10 and everyone knows, when fighting yellow classes they have a high defense compare to other type of armors, so even if someone try to go axe +10 and try to hit , the latter will just kite and not get hit which is useless, we should also take into consideration that when people go for damage like using axe or 2nd weapons they compromises defense/block and other stats. So, when taking all these factors into consideration , i believe that some racial skills should be look after again and some changes should be made and last but least, movement speed also plays a big role on zumi when on knight. (Achievement 5%+cpl buff 10% + enchantment 5%+ trophy(including trophy enchant) and ultimately using knight breeze) so they can just move from one part of the arena to another part while healing and slow our movement speed so definitely lead to a disadvantage to other people.

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27 minutes ago, Micene1975 said:

also I'm fine with a class countering another class

 

11 minutes ago, Micene1975 said:

why am I forced to play a class that I don't want to play

 

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1 hour ago, ted said:

Creo que las raciales en TW, gvg, 10vs10 y quizás 3vs3 (aún no estoy seguro sobre la última) son realmente divertidas y agregan variedad a pvp, ya que incluso si no tienes una buena raza, otro miembro de tu grupo podría tener o tu grupo podría cambiar de clase para tratar con otras clases de jugadores o raciales como, por ejemplo, usar warlock / ilu contra tanques zumi, usar guerreros para matar osos MDPS lo más rápido posible entre otros. 

Sin embargo, en 1vs1 esas habilidades raciales simplemente matan por completo la experiencia pvp, jugar como humano contra un zumi en la clase de tanque es simplemente injusto y anuran con la muerte de equipo azul o incluso verde de +10 jugadores con 2 habilidades es muy difícil. Entonces, en mi opinión, arena 1vs1 realmente necesita alguna corrección en esas habilidades raciales (al menos las que están rotas).


I agree, in 10vs10 or other events with a high number of players, such as the island that will come soon, no adjustment is necessary. On the contrary, in 1vs1 I think that in certain cases the racial skills give an absurd and silly advantage, a good option would be to eliminate the racials in this Arena, so there would be a 1vs1 with the same class with greater equality of conditions and it will still be noticed more who knows how to use the class better, instead of depending on an exclusive skill of yours. As for 3vs3 I think there should be a greater debate, for my part I like the idea, but I also think that it takes away space for some players who do not usually go to TW-GVG and will not be able to show off their racial skills in others characters. Although on the other hand most of those who frequent 3vs3 usually go to more pvp events, so they would not be so affected. And yes, in 3vs3 it is possible that in certain cases racial skills condition victory. Although it is not a big problem, since the only racial skills that really become unfair in 3vs3, can be the healing of the Zumis, the fear of the Bears and in certain cases the orange racial abilities of the Frogs.

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This issue has existed since the old days, nobody's ever bothered to fix it. Zumi's yellow racial is disproportionatelly strong compared to the others. I'm not saying it needs to go, but some nerfing is in order.

Increase the cooldown maybe? This way it should have the intended effect of being a get out of jail card without allowing you infinite healing. In fact, I think most racials would be fixed if they became a more of a once per round thing rather than every few seconds.

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1 minute ago, Alicia said:

This issue has existed since the old days, nobody's ever bothered to fix it. Zumi's yellow racial is disproportionatelly strong compared to the others. I'm not saying it needs to go, but some nerfing is in order.

Increase the cooldown maybe? This way it should have the intended effect of being a get out of jail card without allowing you infinite healing. In fact, I think most racials would be fixed if they became a more of a once per round thing rather than every few seconds.

That's actually true and interesting, owever even with high cd, even if you can use them once per day, you can't really compare them to human's racials cause human's racials are good only for pve, I think you can use them in pvp as well but not that big of a deal like other races

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They don't have to be comparable. It's fine for zumi's to have an advantage over humans in a specific set of classes. I play human, and I honestly don't care if zumis have an extra health bar. 3v3 is about team play.

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You need to think about passive racials and active. Some races have good passive but trash active racials and some races have good active but bad passive if you like to play ma you should play zumi or anuran tbh their racials are good for ma for example

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Im against taking them out in arena, whats the point of having a different race then. Some races have racials skills that are good specially for arenas, while being lackluster outside of them so taking them out would miss the point. Theres also the fact that racial passives are different as well, are you balancing them too?

And you cant expect good teamplay in 3v3 since a lot of people dont care/afk + the fact that it has a random matchmaking.

I do agree zumi templar is an issue for MA though, maybe touch that in arena but thats it. Even that im iffy about since you have 2 other people that could potentially deal with it.

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if you start to eliminate active skill advantages, you will have to eliminate passive skill advantages, match base stats etc. And then what use would it be to have different races? For example, with my frog I beat many well-armed in samu arena, but why if they are main samu do they become human? for his great passive benefit of crit. Each race has its pros and cons and you have to think about that before playing a race. Or are you just guided by the fashion?

Sorry my bad english

I also hate the racial zumi in arena, but in that class they are benefited. now we will see a lot of human GB for its elemental resist +10, should we also remove that pasive racial?

chapala pachala :P

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7 hours ago, Micene1975 said:

Okay I don't want to look like a cry baby or whatever it is, but are racial skills really needed in pvp? Random zumis running around with templar spamming that broken lvl 45 racial healing, frogs with no gear just to use immobilization (that's not an immobilization but a slow/stun) + tornado and randomly oneshotting geared people, bears with random insane fears, then there are halfkins a bit weakers in terms of racials and humans who have no racials at all, just make them balanced or remove them at all in small pvp arenas like 3v3 or 10v10.

I've seen people telling me to leave my human char and go make a zumi templar or a frog thief/ma, this can't be serious.
If there's not even the possibility to remove them or balance them just a little bit OKAY, but if it is actually possible do something thank you, this is boring.

You are using 2+ weapons what’s the point of removing them? Players with 6+ can kill Zumi, and your playing 3v3 only, so I’m against it, if you pvp in tw you will see that racial is useless against 10 ppl against u.

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I'd say I agree if you asking to remove from 1v1.
But 3x3, 10x10, TW or GvG, no way.

Most people who are playing classic are experienced EE players. We all knew all passives and racial, and if you think something is broken and you don't want to use it: I'm sorry, you are prob some of those retards who doesnt want to play a race because "I can't look cute on it".

I can understand removing them from 1v1 because there are no counter play for some stuff.
Picture a Zumi mage vs a Bear mage. Eventually you will be feared, there will be no one to remove, while all you can do with your racials is turning into a box that reduces no magic damage or knock-him back with a skill you prolly wont ever even be in range to cast.
A Human Martial also can't win against a Frog since you will turn on your shit damage tornado + your racial to heal on crits and will simply be stunned for 99% of the fight.

For stuff like that, I can understand removing it from 1v1, as simply there are no counterplay for that.

But when we talking about other PVPs, there are one huge counterplay, the reason almost everyone here started playing Eden: The fact you can change classes.
There is a lot of was to deal with pretty much any racial in all PVPs other than 1v1.
Zumi tanks are annoying, but I've seen people dealing with it easily with Warlock.
Never had any problem playing Orange Frogs with Illusionist or mage. But you can also use hunter and will be able to use Ranger since cap 65 is coming in 2 days.
You can deal with bear fear using classes who can remove debuffs from allies.

You don't want to play a class that can counter something you are against? 
That's entirely YOUR problem. Doesn't mean the game needs to change, but you.
People who picked Zumi for tank classes, bear for purple and frogs for purple shouldn't be screwed over to benefit a couple of crying babies.

TL;DR: For 1v1 okay because there's no counterplay to better racials. For 3x3 and PVPs with higher number, there are counterplays, if you don't want to use a coutner that's your problem.

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7 hours ago, Mako said:

You are using 2+ weapons what’s the point of removing them? Players with 6+ can kill Zumi, and your playing 3v3 only, so I’m against it, if you pvp in tw you will see that racial is useless against 10 ppl against u.

Yes maka, ofc I use +2 weapons, still can kill any of the +10 templars in arena, but for some reasons not zumis ;) wonder why(?) And I'm not blaming it cause I can't, is not something I'm doing for myself, but 75% of the comunity agrees with me and constantly blame the fact racials aren't balanced, some of them are new players some are experienced okay I get it but still you can't compare zumi's racials/frog's racials/bear's racials to human's racials and you can't say anything about that cause I'm right, explain to me in what universe you as zumi have an healing of 2k each 0.5 seconds while I have as human a healing of 2k for each enemy hit, obviously your racial is gonna be good in pve but also in pvp, while mine is gonna be extremely good in pve but what about pvp, why do you have an extra skill wich is broken and I don't ? that's not a thing.

 

3 hours ago, Tuti said:

I'd say I agree if you asking to remove from 1v1.
But 3x3, 10x10, TW or GvG, no way.

Most people who are playing classic are experienced EE players. We all knew all passives and racial, and if you think something is broken and you don't want to use it: I'm sorry, you are prob some of those retards who doesnt want to play a race because "I can't look cute on it".

I can understand removing them from 1v1 because there are no counter play for some stuff.
Picture a Zumi mage vs a Bear mage. Eventually you will be feared, there will be no one to remove, while all you can do with your racials is turning into a box that reduces no magic damage or knock-him back with a skill you prolly wont ever even be in range to cast.
A Human Martial also can't win against a Frog since you will turn on your shit damage tornado + your racial to heal on crits and will simply be stunned for 99% of the fight.

For stuff like that, I can understand removing it from 1v1, as simply there are no counterplay for that.

But when we talking about other PVPs, there are one huge counterplay, the reason almost everyone here started playing Eden: The fact you can change classes.
There is a lot of was to deal with pretty much any racial in all PVPs other than 1v1.
Zumi tanks are annoying, but I've seen people dealing with it easily with Warlock.
Never had any problem playing Orange Frogs with Illusionist or mage. But you can also use hunter and will be able to use Ranger since cap 65 is coming in 2 days.
You can deal with bear fear using classes who can remove debuffs from allies.

You don't want to play a class that can counter something you are against? 
That's entirely YOUR problem. Doesn't mean the game needs to change, but you.
People who picked Zumi for tank classes, bear for purple and frogs for purple shouldn't be screwed over to benefit a couple of crying babies.

TL;DR: For 1v1 okay because there's no counterplay to better racials. For 3x3 and PVPs with higher number, there are counterplays, if you don't want to use a coutner that's your problem.

My friend there's not much difference in 1v1 and in 3v3, I'm completely fine by not doing anything for 10v10 and tw because even if u use them having 10 ppl on you will not change anything, now I'm not saying remove them for zumis only or frogs only or bears only, I'm saying that it would be better to remove any race's racial skill from pvp at least in small arenas, cause now think about it, you go in 1v1 okay you don't have anyone to prevent you from getting 24/7 stunend by a frog or kited by a zumi or whatever it is, but in 3v3 most of the times this is what's gonna appean, your team is gonna randomly win or lose based on who focus who and how effective it is to focus the right person if they even agree to focus wich doesn't even appean that often, what's sad is most of the times the 3v3 arena will end up in a 1v1 cause half of the team is just there to be there, not everyone is full +10, not everyone has 1000$ to spend each month on the game and again not everyone is an experienced player, now I know that racials become kinda useless while we go up with levels, but right now them are kinda pretty broken. Just yesterday I did over 20 arena matches and almost half of them ended up with me being a MA and a zumi running around healing himself and using sacred light to kill me without me having the chance to do anything, now you say okay but even a human templar can do that he's just gonna run around and use the skill to do heavy dmg and slow me so I can't catch up, the difference my friend is if the human templar wants to heal he has to stop and actually heal, while if the zumi wants to heal he just press a skill and is full hp again while running and kiting, okay you say 3v3 is 3v3 so not 1v1 but doesn't matter it will eventually end up in a 1v1 wich result in the one with the broken skillset winning and not the one wich is experienced and does what he know that he has to do to win (and I'm not a newb I actually play this game from the beta in aeria and I know what I'm talking about), also you say okay I've seen warlocks countering zumi's templars and you say if you don't want to use it it's your problem, but why in the worlds am I supposed to be forced to do something that I don't like cause someone else is enjoing abusing something broken and having fun while doing it, there are 15 classes to choose right? You tell me stop playing MA go warlock so you can counter them, why do you tell me to play a different class from what I like to play and not to do them to play something else instead of spamming arena with yellow classes and abusing that racial that human's don't have, go tell them to go any other class and not only to me, is a game your supposed to enjoy playing what you like, not having 0% chance to actually win with the class that you like, even if a class counters your class it should never be 0% chance of winning never, that's not a thing.

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5 hours ago, Micene1975 said:

Yes maka, ofc I use +2 weapons, still can kill any of the +10 templars in arena, but for some reasons not zumis ;) wonder why(?) And I'm not blaming it cause I can't, is not something I'm doing for myself, but 75% of the comunity agrees with me and constantly blame the fact racials aren't balanced, some of them are new players some are experienced okay I get it but still you can't compare zumi's racials/frog's racials/bear's racials to human's racials and you can't say anything about that cause I'm right, explain to me in what universe you as zumi have an healing of 2k each 0.5 seconds while I have as human a healing of 2k for each enemy hit, obviously your racial is gonna be good in pve but also in pvp, while mine is gonna be extremely good in pve but what about pvp, why do you have an extra skill wich is broken and I don't ? that's not a thing.

 

My friend there's not much difference in 1v1 and in 3v3, I'm completely fine by not doing anything for 10v10 and tw because even if u use them having 10 ppl on you will not change anything, now I'm not saying remove them for zumis only or frogs only or bears only, I'm saying that it would be better to remove any race's racial skill from pvp at least in small arenas, cause now think about it, you go in 1v1 okay you don't have anyone to prevent you from getting 24/7 stunend by a frog or kited by a zumi or whatever it is, but in 3v3 most of the times this is what's gonna appean, your team is gonna randomly win or lose based on who focus who and how effective it is to focus the right person if they even agree to focus wich doesn't even appean that often, what's sad is most of the times the 3v3 arena will end up in a 1v1 cause half of the team is just there to be there, not everyone is full +10, not everyone has 1000$ to spend each month on the game and again not everyone is an experienced player, now I know that racials become kinda useless while we go up with levels, but right now them are kinda pretty broken. Just yesterday I did over 20 arena matches and almost half of them ended up with me being a MA and a zumi running around healing himself and using sacred light to kill me without me having the chance to do anything, now you say okay but even a human templar can do that he's just gonna run around and use the skill to do heavy dmg and slow me so I can't catch up, the difference my friend is if the human templar wants to heal he has to stop and actually heal, while if the zumi wants to heal he just press a skill and is full hp again while running and kiting, okay you say 3v3 is 3v3 so not 1v1 but doesn't matter it will eventually end up in a 1v1 wich result in the one with the broken skillset winning and not the one wich is experienced and does what he know that he has to do to win (and I'm not a newb I actually play this game from the beta in aeria and I know what I'm talking about), also you say okay I've seen warlocks countering zumi's templars and you say if you don't want to use it it's your problem, but why in the worlds am I supposed to be forced to do something that I don't like cause someone else is enjoing abusing something broken and having fun while doing it, there are 15 classes to choose right? You tell me stop playing MA go warlock so you can counter them, why do you tell me to play a different class from what I like to play and not to do them to play something else instead of spamming arena with yellow classes and abusing that racial that human's don't have, go tell them to go any other class and not only to me, is a game your supposed to enjoy playing what you like, not having 0% chance to actually win with the class that you like, even if a class counters your class it should never be 0% chance of winning never, that's not a thing.

Then dont play Ma you have many other classes to play with. If you refuse to counterpick then there is nothing to do. 

 

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Fun thing is 75% of the ppl who are hating this are actual zumis and frogs in game.

56 minutes ago, naru said:

Then dont play Ma you have many other classes to play with. If you refuse to counterpick then there is nothing to do. 

 

I'm not supposed to counter a race with a class, a class with a class, don't tell me to counter zumi's racial with a class that's stupid, is not how it's supposed to be

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5 minutes ago, Micene1975 said:

Fun thing is 75% of the ppl who are hating this are actual zumis and frogs in game.

I'm not supposed to counter a race with a class, a class with a class, don't tell me to counter zumi's racial with a class that's stupid, is not how it's supposed to be

are you kidding me? in every pvp game for example LoL you counter champions with other champions too. You have three options

1.Pick a class to counter the zumi

2.Use trophies which can remove positive buffs against their heal buff (but for that you need to hit them so range class is the way to go if you get kited)

3.Dont go in pvp if youre to salty

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