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The SS Situation is simply unacceptable.


Alicia
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1 hour ago, ted said:

Im just saying that there is no necessarily to make another awaken server while we have one perfectly working.

Isn't about give same advantages of awaken, is about having decent fortification system.
Like 120% weap system, why not make exacly like awaken? just to be more hard? ppl that ask for hard pve quit, ppl that ask for hard content quit, ppl that need to try hard after sometime quit.
When Awaken started was so poppulated, not like classic, but now is dead, and no one can say no , even jordan cause he don't play the game, ppl online don't means the server is alive, and i'm not talking about tw with 10-20 ppl.
He do his best and that's what we expect, we're lucky of having VGN very flexible on some changes, but they need feed back for it.
I think SS system SHOULD be changed not for Sublimes or Halcyon just turn Normal SS popular.
They don't need the same SS system to survive, cause if they did, Awaken server wasn't supposted to have better one right? i know there is too much easy to fortify 100-200 items in 1 week, and we don't need it on classic , just a better one.
 

 

20 minutes ago, naru said:

when i literally made 2 or 3 posts about how p2w this server is the last few months and then i see this ...xD. 

Sorry :c i prevent myself of reading too much stuff on classic topic, cause this just make me feel bad on comming there.

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2 minutes ago, infecttado said:

When Awaken started was so poppulated, not like classic, but now is dead, and no one can say no , even jordan cause he don't play the game, ppl online don't means the server is alive, and i'm not talking about tw with 10-20 ppl.

thats what i was talking about last time, jordan doesnt play the game and idc if he played the game when aeria fked up i play since the lv 50 cap i saw every shit too. But he doesnt play his own server rn and thats why he doesnt understand why ppl are complaining about the activity,dmg from classes or what ever. Dont take that as insult jordan its simply the truth the lack of empathy you have will kill both servers at the end. I know you cant run a server without earning money to run it but the system you run rn in classic is just to p2w i suggest you should think about the stuff alicia said and try to do something even if it will take few months.

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I'd like more Safety Stones :) Best to boost the rates in Alpaca Capsules but just for normal SS ofc. I know Jordans sick of hearing this but this would make people stop crying literally instantly and i honestly don't know why it would be so hard to just make them drop more out of the capsules except from maybe people cashing less then?

 

Btw. i absolutely didn't read this thread at all since i know it'd be a complete waste of time and most people are writing bullshit anyways so yeah owo

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2 minutes ago, SenorBernd said:

I'd like more Safety Stones :) Best to boost the rates in Alpaca Capsules but just for normal SS ofc. I know Jordans sick of hearing this but this would make people stop crying literally instantly and i honestly don't know why it would be so hard to just make them drop more out of the capsules except from maybe people cashing less then?

 

Btw. i absolutely didn't read this thread at all since i know it'd be a complete waste of time and most people are writing bullshit anyways so yeah owo

Why he should make the game completely f2p? Thats nonsense making the alpaca capsule drop rate higher then none would need to cash anymore unless for chisels and costumes or ep. You can just go +10 with normal safety stones if you just farm enough of them. Jordans only money source are the safety stones,ep and everything else you need to make a good set out of altar rn he just needs to find a more balance way for everyone.

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Please don't start bashing each other's solutions. This thread is about the problem, and the ones who can solve it are the only decision makers here. Keep the thread civil so it doesn't get locked lol.

The point was to bring to attention that this economy is fucked up. How they solve it I don't particularly care xD

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As a free player in this abusive p2w, i feel all time i play how much player are taking for milking cow.

The problem isnt peeps want to be +10 as soon as possible as i can read, the problem imo is all is made to widen the gap betwen free player and thoses who spent money on game.

i know server has to be paid, i know jordan probably want to make money on his work, wich is understandable.

But what is the best between a long term investment, with always the busy people who pay and others who have the right to play like everyone else, and a short term burst investment because only p2w can have fun, free player that get bored and leave, and in the end the p2w leave cause they no longer have a person to screw up on?

Why deleting alpaca stones? to force players to buy and buy more? the repeatable quests system isnt as easy as it could be on searing valey anyway, it should be an enough nerf.

i was glad in all servers to farm rq to get stone with alpaca coins, now i loose this, and what i have instead? Bank Card baby..and i should think we dont give a damn about my facs? bullshit.

this feeling to be taken for a morron everytime i playwill probably be the reason to me for stopping the game when i would like to.

when you pay you have:

-Ez achievement with the ep, and gold with the ec

-Easier stones and fort cuz of the gold (when we have stone, cuz this week was a mistake and there is no problem with that imo)

and..thats the main line of the game  so gg you did all.

When you dont pay, you was supposed to have the quest farming to get SS

But in the end you have nothing, why free player are betrayed, and p2w one still at the same point? wouldn't that be reason enough to be tired of how much money hungri this staff is? to feel sick of that? for me it would be enough.

 

I dont want/need ton be +10 full the fast as i can, what i need is a way to farm it on a reasonable time.

The farm is the essence of mmorpg, if i just would like to loose money, i would play the fucking casino instead.

Thanks for your attention.

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34 minutes ago, Grandfenix said:

when you pay you have:

-Ez achievement with the ep, and gold with the ec

-Easier stones and fort cuz of the gold (when we have stone, cuz this week was a mistake and there is no problem with that imo)

and..thats the main line of the game  so gg you did all.

When you dont pay, you was supposed to have the quest farming to get SS

Thats true and if we add also SS on ep then cash player would not really need gold, they will finish getting the gold for archivements, chisels and cosmetic stuff a few weeks after then they would not need gold at all until next content becomes avaliable then the value of gold inside the game would be worthless and free players won´t have really any way to compete. 

Before EP was implemeted cash players really needed gold hence they sell stuff they purchase and ingame economy were flowing, If you add SS the ways I have seen suggested there would not be really much need to get gold since almost everything the game has to offer can be archive by cash only. 

1 hour ago, naru said:

Thats nonsense making the alpaca capsule drop rate higher then none would need to cash anymore unless for chisels and costumes or ep.

As naru said more or less the samething would happen  if they boost the rates in Alpaca Capsules for normal SS, specially if it is done with copper capsules which are way to cheap and easy to get. 

This game is not perfect, It need changes but this thread started because someone could wait just 3 days to altar to change and get stontes to upgrade, 3 days IS NOT EVEN A 10% of what a free player have to wait and farm gold to upgrade, and most of the suggestions I see only benefits cash player making wider the gap with free players. 

There are other ways to try to solve the problem like making stones caped by levels are stardust and chisels are making hoarding wothless and lowering the prices making free players able to catch up while at the same time giving cash to the server since cash players would spend cash getting gold to purchase the new stones when they become avaliable. Also with this we could help new players by givin them lower lv stones so they can catch up easier helping the server to be alive more time.

The SS purchase with EP could also work on future caps (70 or 75) when the ep lowers its value since many people have just finish archivementes, implementing this could actually help to maintain the ep value making it still atractive to cash players and wont really harm that much free player since its price wont be as high as If it is implemented on this cap. There are a few things I came about if you guys have more ideas please comment them but try to think more about the whole server in general.

 

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28 minutes ago, ted said:

Thats true and if we add also SS on ep then cash player would not really need gold, they will finish getting the gold for archivements, chisels and cosmetic stuff a few weeks after then they would not need gold at all until next content becomes avaliable then the value of gold inside the game would be worthless and free players won´t have really any way to compete. 

Before EP was implemeted cash players really needed gold hence they sell stuff they purchase and ingame economy were flowing, If you add SS the ways I have seen suggested there would not be really much need to get gold since almost everything the game has to offer can be archive by cash only. 

 

It's not something I had considered, but on the other hand it wouldn't be too different from the current situation. EC, after all, are something that is also coming from AP buyers, except you're gambling for the reward. I guess you could say a bunch of AP users (EC sellers like me) who don't like to gamble help bridge that gap, and thus if you give us what we want straight up, there'd be less reasons to sell stuff in the first place. That's a fair point.

Either way, please know that I'm not just looking out to myself here. I've pointed this out earlier in the thread, but it really is no fun for me to beat up random ungeared people. It's unrewarding and doesn't give me joy just as much as it doesn't to get beaten up by someone who just happened to have a stash of safety stones to fort their stuff with while I can't find any. I want GvG to not just be about 3-4 actually good guilds and a bunch of filler ones that don't even show up.

I want to be able to log in and see a market, to trade with players. I don't want to log in to see no safety stones or whatever has been forgotten about completely missing or unavailable. I hate the crystal altar, I merely tolerate its existence because I enjoy the game. Point is, I can't have fun like this either, and I don't want to pay my way to beat the few dozen or so big whales because there's nothing rewarding there. Most are scumbags anyway.

Truly if nothing gets done I'm just gonna leave. I have no interest in the game in its current state. It would take an extra $200-$300 to be competitive with the top players and that's the only tier where you'll find a fair match where skill matters. I ran the numbers, there's absolutely no fucking way a free player can compete in this environment, free players make like $1-$2 per day doing everything they possibly can. By then the next cap will probably out and free players would have to start from scratch.

At that point I'm $500 into a game that only a few dozen people can really play. Is this really the classic experience we want to play? I don't think so.

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11 minutes ago, Alicia said:

I ran the numbers, there's absolutely no fucking way a free player can compete in this environment, free players make like $1-$2 per day doing everything they possibly can. By then the next cap will probably out and free players would have to start from scratch.

A free player can compete if they're playing a lot, more casual players can't though, yes. Best bet for casual players at this point is probably to pour everything they have into awakened gear and that means hoarding stones until they're out

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4 hours ago, infecttado said:

I literally don't play classic cause p2w system, i love the idea and cap but i can't spend too much for something that will need to be changed every 3-4 months, also, people don't wanna go classic cause they know VGN players always quit after sometime.

The SS system is abusive, that's the point i see ppl going back to awaken and aeria.
I really want to see it changed anytime cause i expect this server survive, waiting for emergecy changes.
Glad to see you guys talking about :3

You guys confuse pay to win with pay to convenience too much. The game does not require you to spend any money to be successful in it. Is it encouraged and does it help a lot? of course but that's any MMO that is like this (with regards to fortifying gear, costumes).

There are tons of way to farm gold but people rather sit in aven and do nothing. A guildy of mine made close to 75k in a day of farming legion and selling boxes, you can farm 0/2 dungeons or farm mobs in highlands (I see a lot of players doing this). People are just lazy and like to complain. 

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12 minutes ago, Astraea said:

A free player can compete if they're playing a lot, more casual players can't though, yes. Best bet for casual players at this point is probably to pour everything they have into awakened gear and that means hoarding stones until they're out

At current pricing, you need, on average around 3k to +6 a single item. To +8, that number jumps to 15k. To +10, that's another 15k. You need to +10 6-7 items to be on level ground for a single class.

That's 33k per item, multiply by 6, that's a loooooooot of gold to farm friend. And that's a single class.

Hell, I can even put a dollar value on it. Gearing up one class, on average, right now, costs $220. $220 dollars just for gear. That's how pay to win this is lol.

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7 minutes ago, Matt said:

There are tons of way to farm gold but people rather sit in aven and do nothing. A guildy of mine made close to 75k in a day of farming legion and selling boxes, you can farm 0/2 dungeons or farm mobs in highlands (I see a lot of players doing this). People are just lazy and like to complain. 

i know some ppl did alot of gold with those stuff, 75k sounds nice but some ppl paid 20k for Emerald Thorn Boxes :"D 
Yeah ppl are lazy they just spend 18h daily on awaken server to buy Legendary Pet... u really think ppl are lazy , ppl like me which do 130 Multiplayer DNG and sell racials are lazy? 
I know you are totally agree with it cause u grown on aerias server which had the same system , but that's the point here's not aeria and we can ask for changes, i totally agree some stuff doesn't need changes cuase it should be classic , but this is abusive.
I understand we can farm and farm and farm to get stuff, and i'll be able to do it , but imagine farm 19 days 0/2 and 0/10 dungeons for full +7 gear ... sounds nice for u? or just cause u can have +10 easly is that right.

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@Jordan @Bash @Vivi

 

I've got a genuine question. I just did the math now. I was mostly throwing ballpark figures before, but let's see... I'm going to make this as clear as possible so everyone who reads this thread can see:

1EC = 100g

1EC = 62ap, this is the cheapest price possible, by buing in stacks of 200. I'm being generous.

Cost of +10 on one piece. This is using averages plus some token amount for +6 based around getting really lucky with 10-15SS depending on which price you get them at.

(3000 + 2*750*10 + 2*750*10) * = 33k

Cost of the entire set for a 1h class is 231k

So that sounds like a hell of a lot of gold, 4 months of work for a free player. Wow, they sure have it bad, but how does that look for the filthy p2w donators like us?

100g/62ap = 1.587, so 1ap = 1.587g

How much is 1 ap? It's 1.1VGN if you drop the highest amount possible, $100. With $100 you get 60k vgn, so 600VGN per $1

To calculate how much g is $1, we just multiply like so: 1.587*1.1*600 = 1047 gold per dollar. Only one calculation left:

231,000 / 1047.42 = USD$220,54

I'm so glad to be a Donator, so I can spend an entire PS4 just to fort one set to +10. But hey, it saves me 4 months of grinding :)

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42 minutes ago, Alicia said:

@Jordan @Bash @Vivi

 

I've got a genuine question. I just did the math now. I was mostly throwing ballpark figures before, but let's see... I'm going to make this as clear as possible so everyone who reads this thread can see:

1EC = 100g

1EC = 62ap, this is the cheapest price possible, by buing in stacks of 200. I'm being generous.

Cost of +10 on one piece. This is using averages plus some token amount for +6 based around getting really lucky with 10-15SS depending on which price you get them at.

(3000 + 2*750*10 + 2*750*10) * = 33k

Cost of the entire set for a 1h class is 231k

So that sounds like a hell of a lot of gold, 4 months of work for a free player. Wow, they sure have it bad, but how does that look for the filthy p2w donators like us?

100g/62ap = 1.587, so 1ap = 1.587g

How much is 1 ap? It's 1.1VGN if you drop the highest amount possible, $100. With $100 you get 60k vgn, so 600VGN per $1

To calculate how much g is $1, we just multiply like so: 1.587*1.1*600 = 1047 gold per dollar. Only one calculation left:

231,000 / 1047.42 = USD$220,54

I'm so glad to be a Donator, so I can spend an entire PS4 just to fort one set to +10. But hey, it saves me 4 months of grinding :)

I think you're approaching this in the wrong way. You're under the impression that a +10 set is required/necessary to compete or play the game when in reality a +6 set would suffice. Many players now have a +10 weapon and +3-6 set, the people who have more time to play, spend money or are just lucky have better forted sets. 

 

Also, making words bigger to make a point doesn't really help, it just makes you look kind of dumb but that's just me.

While I do think the conversion rate of Alpaca Daily coins to SS now is quite bad, it shouldn't be as good as other servers got to use (FR, BR, whatever it may be). There should be some limitations set on it like it would make your equip bound, only go up to X amount of fortifications. More or less the "p2w" stones are from +6~10 anyway, but all you need is +6 to actually play the game.

 

P.S.: $200 at this cap would get you barely a +6 set in Aeria US, dunno about the other servers but I can imagine it was about the same; also we're blessed to not have the outrageous costs of fortifying on this server. I'm not sure how many of you guys actually played these lower level caps but people were turning to buying gold just to fort their set because of the costs.

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5 minutes ago, Matt said:

I think you're approaching this in the wrong way. You're under the impression that a +10 set is required/necessary to compete or play the game when in reality a +6 set would suffice. Many players now have a +10 weapon and +3-6 set, the people who have more time to play, spend money or are just lucky have better forted sets. 

 

Also, making words bigger to make a point doesn't really help, it just makes you look kind of dumb but that's just me.

While I do think the conversion rate of Alpaca Daily coins to SS now is quite bad, it shouldn't be as good as other servers got to use (FR, BR, whatever it may be). There should be some limitations set on it like it would make your equip bound, only go up to X amount of fortifications. More or less the "p2w" stones are from +6~10 anyway, but all you need is +6 to actually play the game.

 

P.S.: $200 at this cap would get you barely a +6 set in Aeria US, dunno about the other servers but I can imagine it was about the same; also we're blessed to not have the outrageous costs of fortifying on this server. I'm not sure how many of you guys actually played these lower level caps but people were turning to buying gold just to fort their set because of the costs.

Dude, you're right. I'm so freaking grateful. You're right, I'm blessed I have the privilege to not play this game anymore. I'm throwing the gear fund for a PS5 or something. At least that's worth something~

You know, the sick truth is that if the number was $40 I'd probably pay it.But they had stick it in~

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I think a lot of the problem comes from the fact people want to have their +10 gear as soon as they can get it and that isn't how the game is meant to be played. MMOs are a gradual grind, not something that should be instantaneously finished the day of release. That is why games die out and get boring because there's nothing to work for. Spending money here and there is fine as it helps you gear up, but if you want to have your +10s immediately, expect to be spending more money.

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If this was a game where you played one class, and this was the endgame, yeah, you might have an argument there. This is the cost to just get PVP ready for the current meta.

And don't come at me with the whole +6 is enough. If you're serious about PVP like I am, and I know you are too Matt because you're a freaking pro at this game, you know that's horseshit. But yeah, rationalize your spending however you like. I knew something was up when Heart was selling EC by the thousands in one day.

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30 minutes ago, Alicia said:

If this was a game where you played one class, and this was the endgame, yeah, you might have an argument there. This is the cost to just get PVP ready for the current meta.

And don't come at me with the whole +6 is enough. If you're serious about PVP like I am, and I know you are too Matt because you're a freaking pro at this game, you know that's horseshit. But yeah, rationalize your spending however you like. I knew something was up when Heart was selling EC by the thousands in one day.

+6 is definitely enough.. the person who gets the most kills in my guild every time literally has a +6 set with a +10 weapon. A +10 weapon is definitely a necessity, but a full +10 set is not. 
For others that spend, if it is in their means to spend why not allow them to? I spend money on this server, more than I would like to admit but it's in my means to do so. But I also merchant, sell runs and actually farm since I have the time to do so. 

Play the game, farm with what time you have, spend some money. But don't operate under the impression that you must +10 every single item to be relevant or useful because that is just wrong unfortunately.

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I'm not critizing you for spending money Matt. You do you, so did I. I spent money to. I'd be a hypocrite for pointing fingers. But you can't tell people to settle for +6 when you will be one of the very first people coming into GVG a week after trials come out clad in a gold +10 set.

I'd bet money of it if I wasn't already $200 under ;)

And you're right, I could settle for +10 on a weapon and +6 on a set. That'd be plenty to stomp half the server. But like you, Losque, Aloha, etc I'm not interested in that. I want to compete with the best against the best. With the theoretical limit of what my cleric can do.

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  • VGN GM

You're all just missing the point entirely and I get why. This is a private server people expect the rates of the Awaken where 1 day of running Shaxia Fae Fields or Palace of Dreams will get you 2-3 +14 items so within 2 days you're full fortified and only have resetting left. What you're now forgetting is the next 2-3 weeks you could spend running dungeons to buy reset scrolls to get those "perfect forts" and then working on the gems that costs another couple of days to a week (not including time you may spend hunting crystals for the special gems such as Sky Tower). There is so much more content to actually do and work on that there is no need to make stones harder or rarer as they're just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to actually getting PvP ready.

 

1 hour ago, Alicia said:

I'm so glad to be a Donator, so I can spend an entire PS4 just to fort one set to +10. But hey, it saves me 4 months of grinding :)

Throwing a bunch of numbers at people means nothing but eye candy to try and rile up the couple of people who are constantly complaining about Safety Stone prices so now they can run around the server claiming them as "fact" all day. Lets start off straight of the bat why do people need to have a full set +10 in any regards. Now I'm going to name drop here and I'm sure he wont mind but take @Kibo as an example. Consistantly the top ranked player in 3v3 Arena and as of right now I caught him in Aven and his Illusionist gear is the following:

  • Weapon +10
  • Head +6
  • Body +8
  • Belt +6
  • Boots +6
  • Gloves +6

This isn't an abnormal factor either. If you look at all the people ranked on the arena boards there is even a couple who are not even +6 on anything but the chest piece.  You don't ever need to +10 everything as at this level of play the amount of stats you gain from it are somewhat negligible. You're talking aboout 1-3% in the stat vs the 5-10% you'd get on Awaken with other things factored in such as Awaken glyphs and various different PoD buffs. The important one is the weapon (for the ATK stats) and as a free player I know in a weeks work (providing the Safety Stones are available) you can easily +10 a weapon without spending a penny, which until something like DD comes out and you can ride off the fact that spenders tend to be more lazy so will buy countless hours of DD runs, it was only ever a dream to be able to max out a fort without spending any money. As also mentioned in the post by Matt you can still exploit the market and time the armor boxes for good gold as well.

Also, any need to make a second post with your response? A bit much don't you think?

 

5 hours ago, SenorBernd said:

I'd like more Safety Stones :) Best to boost the rates in Alpaca Capsules but just for normal SS ofc. I know Jordans sick of hearing this but this would make people stop crying literally instantly and i honestly don't know why it would be so hard to just make them drop more out of the capsules except from maybe people cashing less then?

Sadly this wouldn't change anything. It would just stop them talking about Safety Stones and move on to the next thing that they can complain about. I'm not trying to invalidate peoples arguements but there is a good number of people who tend to post nothing but complaints and when you solve one the next one arrives.

 

55 minutes ago, Matt said:

I think a lot of the problem comes from the fact people want to have their +10 gear as soon as they can get it and that isn't how the game is meant to be played. MMOs are a gradual grind, not something that should be instantaneously finished the day of release. That is why games die out and get boring because there's nothing to work for. Spending money here and there is fine as it helps you gear up, but if you want to have your +10s immediately, expect to be spending more money.

Idk, this is the best way anyone could put it to be quite honest.

 

5 hours ago, Grandfenix said:

i know server has to be paid, i know jordan probably want to make money on his work, wich is understandable.

As I've stated before I don't actually benefit from people spending more money or less money on the game. I make my decisions based on what will make the game function for the longest. My concern and decisions are always based on what I believe is best for longevity.

 

5 hours ago, Grandfenix said:

i was glad in all servers to farm rq to get stone with alpaca coins, now i loose this, and what i have instead? Bank Card baby..and i should think we dont give a damn about my facs? bullshit.

Our rates are based on Aeria US server before the merge with the French server. We have not altared these rates in any shape or form. The rates may have been higher on what ever server you played in the past but our rates are a direct copy from Aeria's US.

We do not need to follow what the other servers had.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

I'm not really sure if this thread should just be locked to be quite honest, I will do it however as the main issue address in the original post was about the availability and not the cost. I did originally hide a response to avoid this same arguement of SS's being "too expensive" and how everyone should be able to +6 / +10 their gear within an hours online time but after taking my first true day off since opening this server it just got out of hand... again...

I'm also not against ideas like this to improve Safety Stone availabillity for the grinders in the future but needs to be "steped with care".

https://forum.vendettagn.com/index.php?/topic/10925-drop-rates/&do=findComment&comment=65161

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  • Jordan locked this topic
  • VGN GM

We're not saying that we won't change anything in the game, our actions are not motivated by greed. We just have a server that's 5 years old already and have seen what happens when the game is made far too easy. We've already acted on community feedback but that falls on deaf ears as per, now here we are being accused and insulted as per, until people get what they want.

We will come to a decision and act on it as soon as we can, thank you for your feedback, we look forward to the next round...

 

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