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Add a Gem Merchant for lvl 4 Gems


SenorBernd
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So as many people are mentioning and wondering about, there happens to not exist any Gem Merchant in 65 and 70 content at all(apart from apparently being able to get one out of Wonder Pockets when they get introduced at 70).

Also this was found in a random old wiki that kinda confirms it(ending at lvl 55 = lv 3 Gems and only re-starting at lv 75 = lv 5 gems) 

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It just makes no sense to not have an NPC available for Lv 4 Gems until Lv 5 Gems are out(or as said with luck from wonderpocket inbetween the 2 gem caps but yeah). 

I mean sure in the end the stat-boost inbetween lv3 and lv 4 gems isn't too insane but 1. that makes a whole cap of human racial completely un-usable and 2. as mentioned it makes no sense at all to literally not have them available by any chance.

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I was able to use my human racial at lv 60 with gems lv3 which required a lv55 Gem merchant, on lv 55 I think it was not posible to use the racial. I think that the reason of lv 65 bp being released later is somewhat related to this.

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16 minutes ago, ted said:

I was able to use my human racial at lv 60 with gems lv3 which required a lv55 Gem merchant, on lv 55 I think it was not posible to use the racial. I think that the reason of lv 65 bp being released later is somewhat related to this.

Well but you were able to get a lvl 55 Gem Merchant in 55 cap, that's what this is about. I know that Humans can already learn the next gems if they have the mats(you could actually already learn the lvl 4 upgraded gems in lvl 60 cap even though they are lvl 65 but as said this has nothing to do with the general subject).

This is about literally not having a merchant for gems at all on lvl 65

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The merchant was not in the game's content at the level cap. The merchant was introduced as a reward from merchant boxes from Wonder Pocket and with the introduction of level 75 content through dungeon bosses.
You can watch old GvG videos from level 70 cap from back then and see that everyone was still using LCK Elimination Lv3 gems in case people want to say it's wrong.

http://gametsg.techbang.com/fn/index.php?view=npc&npc=55067072#detail

http://gametsg.techbang.com/fn/index.php?view=npc&npc=55413184#detail
Here are the two NPCs that carry level 4 gems and where you can receive them. 

Adding them to the game will do more detriment than good IMO, don't think they should be added at all.

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8 hours ago, Matt said:

Adding them to the game will do more detriment than good IMO, don't think they should be added at all.

Elaborate.

 

Edit: I'm personally fine with only using gems lv3 but as mentioned before it's just nonsense to not have the 65 gems in 65 content. I'd just like a clear yes or no so i and many others don't waste 30+ lv 3 gems by refining them and then suddenly getting an NPC you know.

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14 hours ago, Matt said:

Adding them to the game will do more detriment than good IMO, don't think they should be added at all.

I agree with you, however maybe for people doing archivements it could be some kind of annouance specially those who want the dragon mount, but I personally don´t see the need to add those merchands since there are more important issues to attend at the moment.

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45 minutes ago, ted said:

I agree with you, however maybe for people doing archivements it could be some kind of annouance specially those who want the dragon mount, but I personally don´t see the need to add those merchands since there are more important issues to attend at the moment.

You dont need the 65 gems for the 65 gem achievement :D Sure there are always things that are more important but i honestly really don't think this is un-important. 

Also both of you didnt elaborate >why< you think that it's a bad idea?

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Lv4 gems, while it'd be cool to have, ultimately are way too powerful to have at this cap considering most players know what they're doing regarding gear optimization. we would reach absurd base levels of crit (some players have already achieved this). lv4 resist gems give 5 resist from level 3's 3 resist, which is a massive jump. we didn't have l4 gems previously at 65 cap on aeria, and although classic has some things we didn't before, this isn't a QOL change and is instead a serious gameplay change/power creep. it's very possible to reach near max crit or mcrit fully procced and buffed already. we don't need them, not at 65 cap.

another way to improve your gear sounds like a good idea, but then everyone has access to that and suddenly it's a huge jump in what players are capable of vs what they should be capable of/what is healthy for the server.

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I don't know what up with all the hate towards lvl 4 gems compared to level 3 gems.

If we're talking about Stat Gems;
Lck Elimination lvl 3 is 5 lck and 12 mcritr
Lck Elimination lvl 4 is 6 lck and 14 mcritr
If u slot all your armor and weapon with these, that's a total difference of 18 lck and 36 mcritr, which should be around 3-5% at most (Depending on class, skilltree and whatever bonus you have). 3-5% is not bad, but the way you say it makes it sound like it's a difference of like 50%...

Talking about resistance gems:
Its true that lvl3 (lvl55) gems only give 3 elemental/physical resists while lvl 4 (lvl60) give 5 elemental/physical resist which is quite a jump, however, given how strong MDPS are and will become with the upcoming lvl 65/Awakened weapons, this will be pretty much necessary and it's also the only thing you can do on your own to counter that. (the other things would be Grace Of Wisdom and War Rhyme Glyphs - but you can't rely on those when queueing for 10v10 Arena for example, so putting resistance gems into your armor is the only counterplay for mdps, and you'd have to sacrifice A LOT of stats just to get a decent amount of a single elemental resistance)

About my Opinion:
I think lvl 65 gems should be available for lvl 65 cap. This game is always about gradual improvement from cap to cap. The Sets, gems and procs give better stats from level to level, but so do the requirements increase to reach a certain amount of mcritr for example. Like on level 60 you need around 2,2k mcritr to reach 100%, while it's over 4k mcritr on lvl 120 (i didnt check, but you should get the idea).

So these better gems only make up for the higher requirements to reach a certain amount of mcritr.
I mean, these gems are lvl 65, so why should they not be intended for lvl 65?

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14 minutes ago, Skyrith said:

I don't know what up with all the hate towards lvl 4 gems compared to level 3 gems.

If we're talking about Stat Gems;
Lck Elimination lvl 3 is 5 lck and 12 mcritr
Lck Elimination lvl 4 is 6 lck and 14 mcritr
If u slot all your armor and weapon with these, that's a total difference of 18 lck and 36 mcritr, which should be around 3-5% at most (Depending on class, skilltree and whatever bonus you have). 3-5% is not bad, but the way you say it makes it sound like it's a difference of like 50%...

Talking about resistance gems:
Its true that lvl3 (lvl55) gems only give 3 elemental/physical resists while lvl 4 (lvl60) give 5 elemental/physical resist which is quite a jump, however, given how strong MDPS are and will become with the upcoming lvl 65/Awakened weapons, this will be pretty much necessary and it's also the only thing you can do on your own to counter that. (the other things would be Grace Of Wisdom and War Rhyme Glyphs - but you can't rely on those when queueing for 10v10 Arena for example, so putting resistance gems into your armor is the only counterplay for mdps, and you'd have to sacrifice A LOT of stats just to get a decent amount of a single elemental resistance)

About my Opinion:
I think lvl 65 gems should be available for lvl 65 cap. This game is always about gradual improvement from cap to cap. The Sets, gems and procs give better stats from level to level, but so do the requirements increase to reach a certain amount of mcritr for example. Like on level 60 you need around 2,2k mcritr to reach 100%, while it's over 4k mcritr on lvl 120 (i didnt check, but you should get the idea).

So these better gems only make up for the higher requirements to reach a certain amount of mcritr.
I mean, these gems are lvl 65, so why should they not be intended for lvl 65?

You can easily cap resist without the +5 resist gems (you can cap it now without any resist gems on a pdps, just have to use guardian enchants). I'd say that PDPS get fucked over even more with the introduction of those gems but again that's just my opinion.

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1 minute ago, Matt said:

You can easily cap resist without the +5 resist gems (you can cap it now without any resist gems on a pdps, just have to use guardian enchants). I'd say that PDPS get fucked over even more with the introduction of those gems but again that's just my opinion.

... What?
so legendary Achievements: 10
commonly used Spenja/Torreyace combo with TE: 3 + 4
Heroic Trait (if u have it): 5
Ele-res Necklace: 5
Thats 27 total (+2x 8 for Fire but only because of the commonly used Whirpool cape and Avila-Volcano Necklace). Now you could use elemental resist certificates, bringing you up to 37, but you'd sacrifice a lot of stats in order to do so and you still won't be at 50. You'll STILL need (all things considered) 3-4 lvl 50 resist gems PER resistances. And you probably want Ice, Holy AND Fire to withstand the most used Pvp Classes.

I dont understand at all why PDPS get fucked over even more, and you again didn't even tell us why.

PDPS are more likely to be in need of critr for example, as 1 Lck = 1 mcritr but 1lck = 0,8 pcritr (https://edeneternal.fandom.com/wiki/Character_stat). this ultimately benefits both, but i feel like MDPS has it much easier to achieve high Mcritr because 1. it's easier to get procs because of AOE Dmg and 2. because of the above-mentioned Lck-Mcritr Ratio.
(Ranged PDPS probably don't have many crit-r issues due to high Lck Bonus on these classes, but thats doesn't go for every pdps and i don't want to focus on this aspect too much as lvl 4 stat gems benefits all kinds of Players - heal, pdps, mdps alike)

I think it's exactly the other way around. MDPS would get an indirect nerf because it gets easier to build up necessary Elemental Resistances - but so can you put physical resist gems into your armor - so again, Both benefit.

In the End, i'd like to repeat that Higher Resistances are imo necessary to make pvp more interesting and adding lvl 65 gem merchants would make that much more accessible for all kinds of players

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  • VGN GM

I'm somewhat of the mindset that it will have a greater effect on the classic experiance if you have Resistance gems especially of a higher level than you would have at that level cap previously. The same arguement could have been made 2 months ago because correct me if I'm wrong the level 4 elemental resistance gems are actually level 60 and not level 65?

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the resist gems are the big deal. going from 3 to 5 resist at 65 cap is too much. if it was 4 resist instead of 5 for level 4 i think it'd be less of a problem to add them, but i don't think we *need* more than 3 resist per gem at this point in the game

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10 hours ago, Jordan said:

I'm somewhat of the mindset that it will have a greater effect on the classic experiance if you have Resistance gems especially of a higher level than you would have at that level cap previously. The same arguement could have been made 2 months ago because correct me if I'm wrong the level 4 elemental resistance gems are actually level 60 and not level 65?

My initial post was indeed aimed more at the Stat-Gems since i don't really care for PvP anymore in this game :D 

It'd just be nice to hear a clear no so people can prepare their lv 3 LCK gems in peace. There are more people against it than for it anyways so it's fine for me.

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10 hours ago, Jordan said:

The same arguement could have been made 2 months ago because correct me if I'm wrong the level 4 elemental resistance gems are actually level 60 and not level 65?

Yes you are right, but i guess people didn't care about that too much at that time mainly because it was not worth sacrificing important stats like mcritr and such for a mere 3 Resistances because gaining the stats was actually rather hard on lvl 60? Idk, but i do know that only very few people actually used Resist gems in lvl 60 (And i'm stalking a LOT of players equipment)

I'm not a fan of the "It's not classic" arguement at all because - again - 120% Weapon system for example isn't classic either. Even though it does not make a lot of difference on Damage (~1-2k dmg more than a 100% weapon from Jordan's Testing https://imgur.com/trQOCVL) i do think that having the higher resistance-gems is a nice opportunity to make up for that.

I mean, it doesn't really change the gameplay at all, does it? Illu will still be S-Tier for pvp, so will Ranger, Mage and DPS Cleric - no matter if you have max resistances against those damage types or not.
Because they are not only played because of their Damage output, but also - and mainly - because of their Skillset.



in the end, i do realize that pretty much all commentors here are against it, and the only reasons that speaks for the release of the gem merchant imo are
1. The Gems are lvl 65, so they should be available in the lvl 65 cap. if they are too OP, then they should be lvl 75 and not 65...
2. It "looks" better? Using lvl 55 Gems in a lvl 65 armor, when you know that there sometime will be lvl 65 gems, is wasted potential in my eyes and doesn't really feel satsifying.

@Jordan
Anyway, I just want to suggest that if they actually were to be released for lvl 65 Cap, then it should be either with the upcoming Patch that brings Trials and lvl 65 Armor or never within in this cap, because people will start gemming their armor and would be upset if the merchant does come before lvl 70. (or if it does come at a later point within the lvl 65 cap, at least make an announcement so people don't waste their lvl 3 Gems)

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  • VGN GM

They come with 70 cap regardless as I'm pretty sure the Wonder Pocket racial craft is level 70 and that is where the box is contained that gives the 50-75 gem pre-75 cap.

That being said I know that its important to stay consistant so they will not be released during the 65 cap as Senor said it best.

2 hours ago, SenorBernd said:

It'd just be nice to hear a clear no so people can prepare their lv 3 LCK gems in peace. There are more people against it than for it anyways so it's fine for me.

 

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I'd rather have lv4 gems be a thing sooner rather than later, i mean, why have one thing, the arcane box, be available now to make purple gear super easily, thereby making people that much stronger, that much easier, when the arcane box wasnt around in 65 cap, but not include the next gem levels, which would greatly help survivability against the influx of rangers, and the still sheer amount of overwhelming force that illus are? 

You'll still have people dumping everything into fatals and eliminations, because if theres one thing thats never gotten enough love its tanking. Pretty much no matter what game it is, its dps or nothing, because dps vs tanking was never really balanced, since why should anyone bother with sustaining themselves when they can just be a glass cannon shooting other glass cannons hoping their attack connects first? 

Heck, i cap ice res, sometimes overcap it to ensure i never go below 50%, and an illu pop sup, sleeps me, then pelts me for triple digits, chipping away waiting for their sadness to proc double damage, would be great to invest in something other than "hurr cap crit2win". Already starting to consider the possibility of just building templar like I would a cleric to just healstall things like 3v3 since its pretty unfun head into arena, killing two thirds of a team, only to have the token illu go invis, sleep my team, change to cleric, revive their team members, then switch back before sleep is over.

Can't gem for both sustain and tanking with lv3 gems that easily, lv4 gems would make it more possible, or maybe just bumping that dear old elemental res to 70% would be an even bigger help than straight up lv4 gems. All I know is pvp is pretty unfun currently. 

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On 6/22/2020 at 4:19 AM, SenorBernd said:

So as many people are mentioning and wondering about, there happens to not exist any Gem Merchant in 65 and 70 content at all(apart from apparently being able to get one out of Wonder Pockets when they get introduced at 70).

Also this was found in a random old wiki that kinda confirms it(ending at lvl 55 = lv 3 Gems and only re-starting at lv 75 = lv 5 gems) 

unknown.png

It just makes no sense to not have an NPC available for Lv 4 Gems until Lv 5 Gems are out(or as said with luck from wonderpocket inbetween the 2 gem caps but yeah). 

I mean sure in the end the stat-boost inbetween lv3 and lv 4 gems isn't too insane but 1. that makes a whole cap of human racial completely un-usable and 2. as mentioned it makes no sense at all to literally not have them available by any chance.

I will disagree, people in lv70 cap still used lv3 gems, you may not like but thats how people played.

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