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Guild vs Guild Changes


Matt
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Hello,

Over the server's life we have seen guilds come and go. For an EE server to have a healthy life, there is a necessity for PvE and PvP. Currently, Classic's PvE health seems to be at an OK place, it could be better. For PvP, the health has been non-existent since fall of last year. 

I'm writing this thread with the intention of bringing the currently playing players back into PvP, to bring old players back to the game and potentially bringing new players from the recently closed down Aeria servers. While I have not been playing the game much for the last few months, I do occasionally log on and see what's going on. PvP is being more or less used as a way to farm gold or ECs, whether it be through ranking, GvG bags, salary, etc. There isn't any issue with this, it just shows that there has been no actual PvP for a long time.

Guild vs. Guild Changes
I will preface the changes for GvG system with a message from Jordan: If people are in agreement over a new system, changes will occur. Changes however will be left to be determined either through collective feedback and decision or by the development team as seen fit; there will not be any issues in regards to development because some of the changes are already in place through other systems from the Awaken server.

Currently, GvG is a 50 versus 50 PvP with five crystals to cap and monsters that spawn every minute after death, and through other means like gathering crystals. Before GvG completely died in regards to activity, it was more or less a cap war between 10-20 players on each side. There was very minimal PvP, and it had a huge emphasis on crystal capping. From what I have seen in videos, and what I have been told by current players, the Awaken server falls victim to this same issue. My proposed change would be an overhaul to the entire system, that way the new system would take the emphasis away from capping crystals and avoiding each other and put it back on actually fighting, which is why it was developed in the first place.

Player Count
Instead of a 50 versus 50, the maximum capacity would be reduced to 30 for each side. This change in capacity would prevent guilds from becoming a huge conglomeration of other smaller guilds, if it could even occur again. I've heard in the past from players that they prefer smaller numbers, because it forces people to learn to play with what they have and teach themselves to be better with their group of friends or clique. This change would encourage this behavior.

Crystals
Crystals would be reduced from 5 to 3. Passive point gain from crystals would also be reduced when leading with crystals. Crystal's levels would also be increased to the current level cap. The majority of points currently in GvG are distributed from the passive point gain from retaining an advantage in crystals. The points should be awarded through killing each other, while also rewarding players from having an advantage through crystals. Having less crystals to worry about also increases the need for strategy, because you won't be able to just brute force crystals to win. The increased level of crystals is to reduce the incoming damage from players and monsters. 

Mob Spawning, Suicide Bombing, Attraction Bombing System
This would more or less be the same as before. I think adjustments would be necessary, but it would have to be played out through the first few GvGs to see how it works. Possible adjustments would be increasing mob spawns, mob damage to players (not crystals), and other additional adjustments.

Timing
GvG's time should also be changed. Currently, the majority of the player base is from Europe. Shifting the times of GvG is a must. Even if the original player base were to return, shifting the times 2 hours back for each of them would still fall in line with proper times. I'm sure most players if not all would be okay with this change.

Map
From what I've been told, the map that is ideal for meeting these requirements has already been used in the Awaken Server for normal class territory war. I'm unsure of this and how the map actually looks/operated because I didn't play the awaken server. But here is a picture of the general idea of where crystals would be, spawn locations, etc. I've marked it up a bit with a general idea of where I think things should go, this would be ultimately left up to Jordan for balance purposes with feedback from the community. 13woLAQ.png

 

Please give your legitimate feedback about these proposed changes. I'm sure only legitimate concerns will be addressed, people posting just to make annoyances will just be ignored. 

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these changes/suggestions are good and should be implemented imo. smaller cap on numbers, smaller map, less crystals, and more focus on actual fighting is what would make pvp better overall. having a different map is also a good attraction and a breath of fresh air for gvg since guild vs guild pvp is fun, the current vessel for it just isn't satisfying unless there's a ton of people on each side. the original map is just outdated for the current playerbase of the game and something different would be really nice. the timeslot change is good too, the majority of the server has been euro for a while now and changing gvg times to be earlier would be at the worst unaffecting to americans etc but for the europeans it would probably make the difference in them being able or willing to attend pvp events or not. if this was put in it would definitely draw players to or back to the game and the current playerbase would appreciate it greatly.

 

as for things that would be the same time as the proposed new gvg timeslot like tw arena etc i personally dont really care about overlap whatsoever but moving tw to be a different timeslot if it overlaps and leaving any arena openings would be my preference 

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I like these changes. A new map (especially one that I don't think I've ever played on) would definitely make me more interested in actually playing GvG again instead of just farming it, assuming other players feel the same and would play it with me.

Shifting the times an hour or two back from where they are now wouldn't affect me too much. I'm in America for reference, and I could still sleep in a little bit on the weekends until GvG time :)

 

 

 

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These changes sound terrific for a more active server with 10+ members guilds to face each other.

I understand that with this system going for group PvP is a better strategy than caping the crystal, which sounds terrific.

Having the crystals on a higher level will increase the time to cap it so you have to be aware of the bombings and stuff which adds to the "strategy" side of this mode, it sounds good.

I'm totally in to try this if this is possible.

The only thing I have against it is basically the way EE pvp works. Basically with this system the guild with the highest number of stuffed AoE MDPS is going to win, such as it was already the case last year when there still was PvP happening. 

 

Huge plus for the time change of course. Having the GvG rounds at 2am when you have to work the next day is such a pain. European guilds are almost already out just because of this.

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I find the changes that Matt moves very well, especially the new limits of participants thus also smaller golden simple  have a chance to pass in PvP if the server becomes more active again.

  (I’m talking about PvP in general) 

 Currently it is unfortunately only a pure  “who can farm his alts the most from”   what the meaning behind the PvP completely leaves out what  really a pity for many is not able to play to every PvP type regarding the times when I would find the time adjustment for most very nice to adapt it.

 And hope that it will also be welcomed by others, as you can see here in the article.

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I don't really play Classic so maybe it isn't my place to say, but I really like the suggestions proposed and would like to see the same changes made on the Awaken server, as I believe they would be just as beneficial in the same way. I'm personally okay with either map, but I would love more emphasis on kills and less on capping. Makes GvGs a little less PvE.

The timing change would be huge, I know so many people on our server that would be able to make PvP events like GvGs if it were just one or two hours earlier. Would really like to see the same for weekday TWs too tbh, it would make a huge difference in the amount of people that can consistently go if it were just two hours earlier (European/Asian players make up a lot of the Awaken server).

Could see these changes doing a lot of good for both servers, and I hope they are at least considered.

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  • 2 weeks later...

For the Europeans anyway a 2 hour shift would be so much more pleasant for the GvG pvp, because until then we can not say that we are having fun at this level, I agree with Matt's idea. as said in the article.


Doing GvG so late is just not possible, we are really not in adequate hours, and it makes it harder to play EE's PvP rating.


But hey, if the change is made, I will have only one thing to say, thank you and the Europeans will have fun and play!

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Shifting GvG back by 2 hours would definitely help the EU playerbase, having 2 of the 4 rounds at 12-2 am makes it quite difficult for people to join. This is especially true for the finals, that take place at ~1 am before a workday. I admit that I'm saying this with American/EU timezones in mind and I don't know how this would affect the playerbase in Asia but the majority of players seem to react positively to this shift.

 

Now about the GvG itself, I agree that some of Matt's ideas would make the event more interesting. Fewer crystals further apart make it so you can't have a cap train that flips crystals every other minute while also making it easier to allocate resources to protect/attack crystals without sacrificing actual PvP combat power. The map example that Matt posted addresses both of these.

 

I don't really have an opinion on misc adjustments like mobs, bombing, etc. as they never struck me as central or gamebreaking, but I'm sure any crystal/map adjustments would shift the metagame and would have to be compensated with such tweaks anyways.

 

Finally, regarding lowering the max player count, the idea sounds reasonable on paper if you want to avoid having one side made up of 2-3 guilds bringing 40 people to take revenge on one guild that usually wins (which we saw multiple times during the server's PvP lifetime), and I think it's a good idea at least for the "serious half" of the GvG (semifinals and finals). However, as someone who didn't exactly try too hard in GvG but instead focused on making sure everyone in the guild is part of the event and involved, I would hate to have to explain to my less-geared, less-experienced guildies that want to get involved and have some fun bombing people that they can't join because there's a player cap (at least in the past, we've often hovered around 25-30 people on our side during GvG). A compromise here is simple: it would be good to apply this 30-player limit on day 2 of the event, where the more "serious" PvP guilds make it anyways.

 

I'd love to see any of the points addressed in this thread implemented! PvP in general has been pretty quiet so far, and I'm sure that listening to suggestions can create a positive feedback loop that can only be good for this game mode.

Raion

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  • VGN GM

I will experiment with this over the next week and see how things go. I have discussed this with the OP and adjusted the schedule for when these changes are done so that GvG is around 1-2 hours earlier. As for the other changes I need to check over the maps and make sure everything will work out before giving a definite answer.

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