Jump to content

Altar mishandling


Jult
 Share

Recommended Posts

https://prnt.sc/12qyskl - So this the new altar system Jordan rolled out with patch 25. My issue is the two different places "reset scrolls" are listed. I know that there are Fort reset scrolls(always in the same spot as chisels where S1 is) and scrolls that reroll costumes(always at the top of the altar where S2 is). I had a "discussion" with @Herakles asking for clarification as to why fort resets have been missing from the altar for upward of 2 weeks and was told it is because they are an S2 item and currently being used for diamonds. https://prnt.sc/12qz0j3 this is a screenshot of an altar with both fort resets (lower space at x1) and costume rerolling scrolls (higher on the altar being at their usual x2 for 25% scrolls). I'm a little confused as to why these two things suddenly swapped positions? Can we get some insight into which reset scroll is which and which category they both belong to?

Secondly, I think it's also important to bring up every time fort resets go on an altar they go another 2+ weeks before being put on the altar again. Why are these the only items put on this very odd schedule? The screenshot posted above shows the last time fort reset scrolls were on altar 4/22/21. That is three weeks to the date of posting this. Fort reset scrolls are some of the most sought after and necessary items in the whole game and im just having a hard time understanding the reasoning to keeping them off altar when they are locked behind a paywall 100% of the time and are a "gambling" item (random rolls on the new fortification bonuses). Could we also get some clarification on to why there is so much infrequency between altars where they are made available?   

There have been a LOT of issues with the classic altar: item repeats, stones, EP amount, etc. This new altar system SHOULD help with many of these issues since now only about 6 or so slots are non-rotating items. The time it takes to make an altar should plummet, though i doubt it takes long anyway, and hopefully increases in quality. Many of the people who actually still play this server and actively roll altar are often voicing their discontent with the current and past management of the crystal altar and I am hoping this thread can be a bridge to fixing that.

Common altar concerns/feedback I have seen:

1-there are 60 and 70 SD/essences on altar but never 65/55/50 etc

2-EP being top row and x1 (disscussed in another thread)

3-chisels/reset scrolls being hard to come by/land on

4-constant repeat primes 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Altar looks so lazy. Like literally how are any of these rewarding beyond the diamonds and stones lmao. And we just had the reset suggestion scrolls all weekend, there should be fort reset scrolls or chisels now...

HFnK6.png

I don't think Herakles should be the one making altars if they are this lame and unappealing. Honestly looks like he has never played the game before. If I were just getting back to playing I would log off after checking not only this but the most unappealing Diamond altar being rehashed for the third or fourth time now.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM

Reset scrolls belong in the normal place they did before the changes of S2 as mentioned. As I've mentioned to people who have brought it up to me who I'm sure have passed on the message this was my mistake as nobody told me about it till after maintenance had happened already that the S2 slot wasn't rotating. So I'm not sure why nobody mentioned it to you since I've had a couple people asking from your friend group about it that the S2 slot is suppose to rotate between the items.

8 hours ago, Jult said:

Secondly, I think it's also important to bring up every time fort resets go on an altar they go another 2+ weeks before being put on the altar again.

This just isn't true at all. The altar has been almost on a constant rotation since before christmas where the S1/S2 type items and all the B's R's and stuff have also been on a almost constant rotation (especially cause I didn't have my dev server for almost 2 months so I wasn't even able to test any altar changes therefore keeping it as close as possible to the same 3 designs each week. So yeh maybe 6 months ago when altars where in much more variation this could have happened but not in 2021 (Unless you coun't the last 2 weeks which again as mention was more of a bug than anything else).

8 hours ago, Jult said:

I had a "discussion" with @Herakles asking for clarification as to why fort resets have been missing from the altar for upward of 2 weeks and was told it is because they are an S2 item and currently being used for diamonds. https://prnt.sc/12qz0j3 this is a screenshot of an altar with both fort resets (lower space at x1) and costume rerolling scrolls (higher on the altar being at their usual x2 for 25% scrolls). I'm a little confused as to why these two things suddenly swapped positions? Can we get some insight into which reset scroll is which and which category they both belong to?

As for this. Clearly he just misread the post as he has no say on any of these items and only picks out the alpha's / prime's of an altar. I have also told your friends exactly this so again not really sure why you've not been told this as they specifically mentioned this "discussion" you had with him.

8 hours ago, Jult said:

Common altar concerns/feedback I have seen:

1-there are 60 and 70 SD/essences on altar but never 65/55/50 etc

2-EP being top row and x1 (disscussed in another thread)

3-chisels/reset scrolls being hard to come by/land on

4-constant repeat primes

1. What's the point when 65 would just take 70's place and 55 would just take 60's place? There isn't enough room on altar to have every stardust so you'd just complain when a 65 is in the 70 place because "Why am I getting lower this altar" when 70 on a functional basis works as a 65.

2. EP is suppose to be a harder currency to get and isn't suppose to be coming in the boat loads (Diamond altar is a special occasion so I allow it). I've added more PvE ways to get EP but I'm not about to be adding more to the top row. Plain and simple.

3. They're suppose to be on altar once a week (Sometimes they might skip a week if I do something extra like a Pet themed altar where theres fruits or skill books). But 9/10 weeks its suppose to be chisel and fort reset one altar every week.

4. I put the altars together and asside from a couple Alpha's repeating or being a different colour of the same alpha I don't really notice it as much as you keep stating it happening. And if there is a couple altars a year of the same primes ever thought they could have been re-suggestions by newer people or people who missed it the last time its on altar. Theres only a finite amount of primes in the game and then theres only a finite amount of good primes that people actually like aswell.

7 hours ago, Kibo said:

Altar looks so lazy. Like literally how are any of these rewarding beyond the diamonds and stones lmao. And we just had the reset suggestion scrolls all weekend, there should be fort reset scrolls or chisels now...

I don't think Herakles should be the one making altars if they are this lame and unappealing. Honestly looks like he has never played the game before. If I were just getting back to playing I would log off after checking not only this but the most unappealing Diamond altar being rehashed for the third or fourth time now.

As mentioned above Resets and Chisels where a bug and where on me not Herakles. As for the items... He gets most his item suggestions from players in game or here on forums so if you have a problem with those item's then I can't really see how it's his fault.

---

So TL;DR it was a bug and will be corrected this maintenance. As for items themselves, try submit them on the forum post and they will be done in due time. If you have a more urgent suggestion contact him directly and he may or may not bump the suggestion up. After a post like this though that comes across as a hit piece. I highly doubt he would want to bump suggestions up just saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is NOT A HIT PIECE. I can't believe I had to type that sentence tbh. If I wanted to attack a certain member of the staff/community everyone, you included, knows I have no issue of doing that. What I do want is clarification not just for the people you choose to share it with, but also the entirety of the player base. The suggestions/concerns I posted I took directly from players in peer chat last night after the diamond altar/crystal altar changed. in regards to your comment about the 70 essences, why even have any other stardust or essence on altar then? Why do we specifically need 60 every single altar is 70s are a for sure as well? See how that just doesn't make sense? I and a lot of other people are just wondering why include 60 as it was over a year ago that, that patch was the level cap. What's the point of including 60 essences EVERY SINGLE ALTAR, but have literally 0 representation of 45/50/55/65? If we can use 70s for those levels is it not just a waste of two spots? Lucky safeties are no longer represented on the altar at all. That's confusing since they're better than regular SS and have an entire rat racial dedicated to them. Why include 60 essences every altar, but not luckies? The Eternal points thing is a whole different matter that many people have voiced their concern about on almost every single altar topic (Aeri, Crap frog, Matt, etc). The "themed" altars have honestly gotta stop. No one askes for them and they rarely have anything good on them. My opinion take it or leave it, but we all know it's true, no one rolls those altars if resets or diamonds aren't on them. I don't think anyone aside from Aerilyn cares about what alphas go on altar for the most part. I'm more concerned with the prime repetition, if you would like I can go through and count why, the toy fish, for example has been on altar 4 times before some other primes are even on there once. Finally no one is asking for you to make EP x10 or x5 at the top brother. We're just asking that if it's going to be on the top row make it x2. that's literally it. I'm not sure why this is such a controversial topic or why you think that making this change would suddenly tank EP prices or create a drastic rise in the amount of it. Especially with it being so rare on the altar to start with. 

P.S- Honestly having backdoor discussions with certain select members of the community who you then hope to convey the message to the rest of the server is kinda shitty ngl. We did that on awakened and look how that turned out. The point of this thread is to voice the concerns of more than just that select few who you deem it necessary to share it with. I just want to play the game without all the backdoor cloak and dagger shit that went on, on awakened server. GS's that don't do their job, biased mutes, INFORMATION LEAKING, etc(AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HERA). I want EVERYONE to be able to voice their opinions on the altar and improvements to be made so BOTH parties are happy. My intention is not to base the GS that does not play my server. I do not care about him in the slightest. 

P.P.S- I do not care about the fashion that goes on altar. I have never been a play for cutes guy. If something is on altar that I want, I get it. I don't mind waiting, but there is a laundry list of primes people have been asking for since the start of the server that have STILL not appeared on the altar. That's just shitty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In an attempt to get this thread back on topic here is an example: Panda pet, demon great sword, cupid bow, Imp pets, HOODIES AND CHISIRE HATx3 have all been on altar, in either their prime or alpha form (pets have been on twice prime and 4 times alpha) {Great sword https://prnt.sc/12ru2tp then it came back on altar during this event}. While stuff like  militissa, whipped cream dream dress, chenogasm, plumed fans, voodoo headdress have never seen the light of day. If you really take feedback from the forums as often as is claimed. Why are more than half the items listed in those suggestions threads STILL not have been on altar? I understand people make mistakes and it can be a lot to handle, but no one is asking pussy in boots to be on altar for the 3rd time. I'm asking for this server to be a collaboration between the staff and the players to create an environment where people feel comfortable spending their time and money. Let's take the egos and emotion out of this. I'm just trying to keep it real

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jordan said:

Reset scrolls belong in the normal place they did before the changes of S2 as mentioned. As I've mentioned to people who have brought it up to me who I'm sure have passed on the message this was my mistake as nobody told me about it till after maintenance had happened already that the S2 slot wasn't rotating. So I'm not sure why nobody mentioned it to you since I've had a couple people asking from your friend group about it that the S2 slot is suppose to rotate between the items.

This just isn't true at all. The altar has been almost on a constant rotation since before christmas where the S1/S2 type items and all the B's R's and stuff have also been on a almost constant rotation (especially cause I didn't have my dev server for almost 2 months so I wasn't even able to test any altar changes therefore keeping it as close as possible to the same 3 designs each week. So yeh maybe 6 months ago when altars where in much more variation this could have happened but not in 2021 (Unless you coun't the last 2 weeks which again as mention was more of a bug than anything else).

As for this. Clearly he just misread the post as he has no say on any of these items and only picks out the alpha's / prime's of an altar. I have also told your friends exactly this so again not really sure why you've not been told this as they specifically mentioned this "discussion" you had with him.

1. What's the point when 65 would just take 70's place and 55 would just take 60's place? There isn't enough room on altar to have every stardust so you'd just complain when a 65 is in the 70 place because "Why am I getting lower this altar" when 70 on a functional basis works as a 65.

2. EP is suppose to be a harder currency to get and isn't suppose to be coming in the boat loads (Diamond altar is a special occasion so I allow it). I've added more PvE ways to get EP but I'm not about to be adding more to the top row. Plain and simple.

3. They're suppose to be on altar once a week (Sometimes they might skip a week if I do something extra like a Pet themed altar where theres fruits or skill books). But 9/10 weeks its suppose to be chisel and fort reset one altar every week.

4. I put the altars together and asside from a couple Alpha's repeating or being a different colour of the same alpha I don't really notice it as much as you keep stating it happening. And if there is a couple altars a year of the same primes ever thought they could have been re-suggestions by newer people or people who missed it the last time its on altar. Theres only a finite amount of primes in the game and then theres only a finite amount of good primes that people actually like aswell.

As mentioned above Resets and Chisels where a bug and where on me not Herakles. As for the items... He gets most his item suggestions from players in game or here on forums so if you have a problem with those item's then I can't really see how it's his fault.

---

So TL;DR it was a bug and will be corrected this maintenance. As for items themselves, try submit them on the forum post and they will be done in due time. If you have a more urgent suggestion contact him directly and he may or may not bump the suggestion up. After a post like this though that comes across as a hit piece. I highly doubt he would want to bump suggestions up just saying.

I'm specifically replying to your second point about EP.

I think the main reason players ask for more EP through altar is because of the value discrepancy for the items in that specific slot (S1). For example, before the economy died/server went inactive Tritium Scrolls were valued at 3-4k, Deuterium Scrolls were valued at 1.5-2k and you got two while Eternal Coins are valued anywhere from 400-700g and you only got one. Corona Heartflames were the only item that were close in value to these, but even then they were valued at approximately x2.5 or 3x of an eternal coin. There is no sense of putting those items there because of this huge discrepancy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly it really feels like altar is trying to squeeze too much into one static rotation. The new static placements are definitely an improvement but what jult is trying to do is give feedback in his silly little angry language. The miscommunication is in wanting more variety in altar setup. If there's not a shiny body prime on an altar, it's not the end of the world like it seems like we're complaining about. what I mean is if for example pets are going to be the focus on the altar, there should be a full push towards pet related items instead of swapping out the prime slots because then it feels like a bit of a lost opportunity/less thoughtfulness or creativity on the altar maker's part. the new static is appreciated for clarity sake but that doesn't mean it can't be switched out a bit for obviously special altars that are out of the norm like pet/corona. It's ok if pets are on altar. But if the pets aren't for everyone or some players already have them, other incentives to play the altar would be far more effective by replacing other slots with things like pet food (maybe instead of the top row alpha), Nelle handbooks, unbind stones, nametags, battle theory, just a dedicated altar instead of a few items here or there stuffed into the normal rotation. pet nametags specifically have been asked for more frequently on altar but as it is altar is cramped and my point exactly is never will everyone be happy all the time with a static rotation so there should be alternate types of statics for broader item categories like crafting, pet, gear, to please *specific* needs instead of trying to meet them all with one type of altar.

 

For coronas I would like to suggest instead of bickering over which level is in which slot, once a month or so throw a bone to the crafting players and have a SPECIFIC altar like This one that players loved a lot from 9/12/20 but having EP (x2 specifically on this type of altar), gathering aids, crafting related items in general. Since there's a large presence of new players having altars like this would soften the relentless blow achievements takes to your gold and also have them rely less on whatever happens to be chosen for the regular status slots. 

 

On the safeties department I would also like to suggest incorporating LSS in some way as there isn't many ways to get them now. Maybe removing the gathering aid slot, putting 30 slots there, moving SS down and putting LSS under VLSS. I don't know if that's workable or something you could fit in but it devalued the zumi racial even more than it was before as LSS wasn't quite so common on altar anyway so if LSS could be worked into the new system somewhere it would be appreciated as some players like myself prefer to use them over the specific variety luckies. 

 

Along with this, themed altars are tiring due to it feels like the same themes being repeated or reusing items a lot. there's a lot of 3 prime themes that can be incorporated, it's disappointing for things like demon eye greatsword or fish to be a recurring theme for edgy or aquatic. here's some examples how those themes could be repeated without reusing common items:

Spoiler

 

  • Edgy:
  • ghoulish skull, voodoo headdress, tarragon horns
  • bandit queen/king, mummy bandage

 

  • Aquatic:
  • there's a billion types of swimsuits/umbrellas honestly
  • beach hats, inner tube back item
  • pirate vests, pirate cutlass

 

its not specifically themes that are disliked its just the reuse of particular items when other things are available to switch out for. 

-

Elaborating on the categories I suggested earlier 

Quote

like crafting, pet, gear, to please *specific* needs instead of trying to meet them all with one type of altar.

 

  • Spoiler

     

    • Crafting:
    • corona focus, EP, gathering aids

     

    • Pet:
    • Nametags, unbinds, battle theory, handbook, pet food, pet conversion fruit

     

    • Gear:
    • -1 downgrade scrolls, fort reset scrolls, 60-69 gear upgrade reset scrolls (For 65 awaken weapons which we still use)

     

Idk why this quote has a list dot but I cant get rid of it so dont judge me. Hopefully this is understandable to ask for. the pussy pet thing on altar wouldn't be disappointing for players not in need of a pet if we were also able to roll for other pet related accessories like handbooks and conversion fruits yadda yadda. Go all in on the themes instead of just swapping out the prime slot because other items are needed too and it's okay and it's what we'd like to see to break the mold a little on certain altars to provide more to a certain niche than to try to cater to everything on the standard altar. 

 

Also the reason I repeatedly mention grouping themes is because it can get frustrating when item uses are separated. Like iirc there was an altar a while ago that had pet conversion fruit out of the blue? But then you'd need the other pet relevant items to make full use of that like unbinding your new decent pet or teaching it better skills so it's just hella convenient to have that shit all on a similar altar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM
46 minutes ago, Matt said:

I'm specifically replying to your second point about EP.

I think the main reason players ask for more EP through altar is because of the value discrepancy for the items in that specific slot (S1). For example, before the economy died/server went inactive Tritium Scrolls were valued at 3-4k, Deuterium Scrolls were valued at 1.5-2k and you got two while Eternal Coins are valued anywhere from 400-700g and you only got one. Corona Heartflames were the only item that were close in value to these, but even then they were valued at approximately x2.5 or 3x of an eternal coin. There is no sense of putting those items there because of this huge discrepancy.  

That was around the time there a good number of Diamond Altars where released within a short period of time which as you've noticed in the past has killed the EP price and the same thing happens on Awaken to a degree since the fail prize of Diamond there is also EP. The main reason people have told me they want more EP was due to some towns going down which is why I've made efforts to try and help the lower towns get back up to fix the problem.

31 minutes ago, Aeri said:

 

I get where you come from all this but the thing you've gotta remember with these special altars is they take 3x as long just to make them (That's not including all the rate testing that needs to happen before hand). I guess I could make a template for it at some point in the future which could work but just from efforts made in the past sometimes its just like why bother because it mostly goes un-appreciated and sometimes even have the prime or nothing players tend to be like gg trash altar. Although Herakles has suggested to do this a couple of times along with Dye altars I've never really had much other support for it. So maybe we can look into it in future.

As for pet primes I agree on the pet altars to a part and how you suggested pet books and such and before my dev server went down as you noticed I've actually done this before for the most part. However, we try to put 1 set of prime pets a week as they are just as important to players as prime costumes in terms of the gameplay experiance (prays/battle skills). So I do not agree that everytime a pet is on altar there should also be the bibles, unbinds etc. But as a special once or twice a month thing then yes maybe one could argue a pet themed altar with pet related items is a good idea.

Generally speaking though a lot of this comes down to preferance and how some people prefer to get what they're expecting and just looking for whats new and some prefer to be suprised or panic roll as this week has a random "fortification" altar.

I'll talk with herakles though as he is the one whos been suggesting to do altars of this nature in the past and I've just kinda pushed the idea asside based on previous experiance..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Jordan said:

That was around the time there a good number of Diamond Altars where released within a short period of time which as you've noticed in the past has killed the EP price and the same thing happens on Awaken to a degree since the fail prize of Diamond there is also EP. The main reason people have told me they want more EP was due to some towns going down which is why I've made efforts to try and help the lower towns get back up to fix the problem.

I get where you come from all this but the thing you've gotta remember with these special altars is they take 3x as long just to make them (That's not including all the rate testing that needs to happen before hand). I guess I could make a template for it at some point in the future which could work but just from efforts made in the past sometimes its just like why bother because it mostly goes un-appreciated and sometimes even have the prime or nothing players tend to be like gg trash altar. Although Herakles has suggested to do this a couple of times along with Dye altars I've never really had much other support for it. So maybe we can look into it in future.

As for pet primes I agree on the pet altars to a part and how you suggested pet books and such and before my dev server went down as you noticed I've actually done this before for the most part. However, we try to put 1 set of prime pets a week as they are just as important to players as prime costumes in terms of the gameplay experiance (prays/battle skills). So I do not agree that everytime a pet is on altar there should also be the bibles, unbinds etc. But as a special once or twice a month thing then yes maybe one could argue a pet themed altar with pet related items is a good idea.

Generally speaking though a lot of this comes down to preferance and how some people prefer to get what they're expecting and just looking for whats new and some prefer to be suprised or panic roll as this week has a random "fortification" altar.

I'll talk with herakles though as he is the one whos been suggesting to do altars of this nature in the past and I've just kinda pushed the idea asside based on previous experiance..

Only replying to the specific part I was addressed in.

The price for EP has stayed stable the entire life of the server. They have floated around 500~700g. The only exception to this is as of recently, purely because there is not as much gold in the server and when the server initially started, but even then they were around 400g each. I don't think having diamond altars kills the price, if anything that is the only place they really come from. People rather buy EC with their AP because they sell for more than 129 coins do. I'm sure it's happened on awaken server, I'll take your word for it but that does not mean it will happen on the classic server, all it just shows that it is capable of happening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM
2 hours ago, Jult said:

P.S- Honestly having backdoor discussions with certain select members of the community who you then hope to convey the message to the rest of the server is kinda shitty ngl. We did that on awakened and look how that turned out. The point of this thread is to voice the concerns of more than just that select few who you deem it necessary to share it with. I just want to play the game without all the backdoor cloak and dagger shit that went on, on awakened server. GS's that don't do their job, biased mutes, INFORMATION LEAKING, etc(AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HERA). I want EVERYONE to be able to voice their opinions on the altar and improvements to be made so BOTH parties are happy. My intention is not to base the GS that does not play my server. I do not care about him in the slightest.

Just cause Aeri conveyed the majority of information you where trying to provide but in a much more comprehensible  and reasonable fashion. However, I'll just clarify.

I'm not expecting to have no backdoor discussions and hope they convey the message to the rest of the server.

All I was saying was you should have been informed as I know the people who are most likely to convey the message to you have already been informed that the resets being missing since the altar update was due to a bug that I wasn't aware of till after the maintenance had already occured. So yeh not saying you couldn't ask but honestly I'm sure you knew before you made the post so asking for clarification on it just seems a bit petty.

But if you didn't know then I apologize.

 

2 hours ago, Jult said:

 in regards to your comment about the 70 essences, why even have any other stardust or essence on altar then? Why do we specifically need 60 every single altar is 70s are a for sure as well? See how that just doesn't make sense?

And to this comment...

Makes perfect sense. You have higher rates and a lower position on the altar. So unless you want me to put like half a 70 stardust in the 60 stardust place or something then it makes perfect sense.

What doesn't make sense is putting like every level of stardust on every altar because then wheres the rest of the items going to go. It also doesn't make sense to alternate them either as in my previous response (Why do I get 65 Stardust in the same position and rate as a 70 Stardust sometimes?).

When making the template I decided that slot was worth the value of a 60 Stardust not a 65. Therefore isn't it best to keep it at it's highest possible value? But if you think differently then fine I can alternate the 70 with 65 and the 60 with 55 if you feel thats better lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jordan said:

Just cause Aeri conveyed the majority of information you where trying to provide but in a much more comprehensible  and reasonable fashion. However, I'll just clarify.

I'm not expecting to have no backdoor discussions and hope they convey the message to the rest of the server.

All I was saying was you should have been informed as I know the people who are most likely to convey the message to you have already been informed that the resets being missing since the altar update was due to a bug that I wasn't aware of till after the maintenance had already occured. So yeh not saying you couldn't ask but honestly I'm sure you knew before you made the post so asking for clarification on it just seems a bit petty.

But if you didn't know then I apologize.

 

And to this comment...

Makes perfect sense. You have higher rates and a lower position on the altar. So unless you want me to put like half a 70 stardust in the 60 stardust place or something then it makes perfect sense.

What doesn't make sense is putting like every level of stardust on every altar because then wheres the rest of the items going to go. It also doesn't make sense to alternate them either as in my previous response (Why do I get 65 Stardust in the same position and rate as a 70 Stardust sometimes?).

When making the template I decided that slot was worth the value of a 60 Stardust not a 65. Therefore isn't it best to keep it at it's highest possible value? But if you think differently then fine I can alternate the 70 with 65 and the 60 with 55 if you feel thats better lol.

Well that's just not true. I just asked questions, Aeri gave you advice. Two different things, two different goals, but go off. The questions is why are they a constant 60 and not rotating like everything else on the altar with the other level essences? Can't be pet nametags, decolorizer, portable bank/auction, repair hammer, shatter gem? That's literally what I was wondering. This is the public fourms and a GS said something that was confusing in game peer chat. I came here seeking clarification for the WHOLE SERVER, not just me, Aerilyn, etc. That's what I meant about the backdoor. You can't be dming certain people to tell them a mistake but not say anything about it. Herakles or you have no announcement, how are people to know? If you're gonna depend on a player to be your mouthpiece just make them a GS or at least pay the girl. Anyway I was just trying to get some information for the SERVER, but if you think it's just to attack you then just listen to her and make the adjustments. I don't really care past that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/10/2021 at 5:43 AM, Jordan said:

So TL;DR it was a bug and will be corrected this maintenance. As for items themselves, try submit them on the forum post and they will be done in due time. If you have a more urgent suggestion contact him directly and he may or may not bump the suggestion up. After a post like this though that comes across as a hit piece. I highly doubt he would want to bump suggestions up just saying.

I decided to read the rest of the replies in this thread and came across this specific thing. In no way is any post or thread about altar suggestions or mismanagement a directed "hit piece" towards Herakles. If anything, it would or should be directed at you. The only thing Herakles should be held responsible for is directing players in-game to read the patch notes about how Crystal Altars work while not actually reading it himself. His actions in-game are poorly reflective of a staff member. Herakles is completely out of touch with the Classic server in regards to how the game operates and what it needs, as you seem to be as well. I'm unsure of the things Herakles does behind the scenes for the Awaken server, but this will continue to be an issue in Classic. I will take some blame for the lack of communication to Jult about the fort-reset thing, as you did tell me in private; although I am certain I did mention it but maybe he wasn't listening or AFK. But, most of the blame is still on yourself, you should be making a forum thread regarding this mishap. You guys are running an anniversary event that incentivizes players by spending AP and doing event boss to utilize the diamond altar. Lots of players are very hesitant in rolling EC because the items they need (chisels, fort reset scrolls) are not on the altar, for the entirety of the event period. I think you guys should consider extending the diamond altar an additional week while adding these items back into rotation but on a x2 basis to make up for the error on your part. If an additional diamond altar is introduced, you should consider doing a new set of items; we've had the same rotations of items with the exception of one or two diamond altars (we both can check to confirm this), these costumes are being bland. The current diamond altar (the marvel wings, mecha stuff) is probably the worst one out of them all, I'm surprised it was even re-used.

There are constant issues that I have reiterated to you in private that players constantly complain about. This is one of the biggest things that is keeping players from coming back from other servers (whether it be the FR server, Aeria before it closed, and the ones that crossed over from the Awaken server). I understand that this is a business first and foremost, but there is no reason to push things the way they are when the player base (outside of a few) does not buy AP. Things should be changed so that players are more incentivized to return to the game and spend money. I can see the player base picking up slowly since I've returned a couple weeks ago and it's on a trend upward. This is your opportunity to get the server to strive again.

Hopefully these things can be addressed in a timely manner. It's a shame that there are players wanting to return and spend money and enjoy the game but these small things are gatekeeping from enjoying their new items (level 70 awaken sets, items). Speaking as a friend, a player, and a customer more importantly, I do hope these changes are made.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM
10 hours ago, Matt said:

I decided to read the rest of the replies in this thread and came across this specific thing. In no way is any post or thread about altar suggestions or mismanagement a directed "hit piece" towards Herakles. If anything, it would or should be directed at you.

The first 2 posts made here mention him by name and I've also saw serval in game chats that are either directly related to this topic and directly aggressive or if not directly aggressive passive aggressive towards him. So take what you will from how the first reply of this topic was within minutes of the first post but to me it comes across as hostile towards him if not a hit piece. I would also like to point out I never directly called it a hit piece. I said that this comes across as a hit piece which again from the above mentioned information I hope you can understand why to me an outsider this is how it comes across.

 

11 hours ago, Matt said:

The only thing Herakles should be held responsible for is directing players in-game to read the patch notes about how Crystal Altars work while not actually reading it himself. His actions in-game are poorly reflective of a staff member.

He confused Reroll Scroll's and Reset Scrolls which is understandable for someone who's first language isn't English. Especially since the OP who is an English speak was asking for clarification on the exact same wording that Herakles had made a mistake over.

 

11 hours ago, Matt said:

His actions in-game are poorly reflective of a staff member.

This is just unfair. He was never expected to be a staff member for Classic but he took on the job of being present for both servers. He has both servers logged in atleast half the day and is always checking peer for questions and helping out players. Yes he's not the best player in the world who knows the most optimal builds in the game and be top of the scoreboards on PvP but as a staff member he goes above and beyond what is expected of him. Not to mention he single handedly tests the majority of patches for both servers without complaints giving me more time to work on each patch. So yes you could argue that sometimes he'll say something that comes across the wrong way or he gets something wrong. Nobodies perfect.

 

11 hours ago, Matt said:

Herakles is completely out of touch with the Classic server in regards to how the game operates and what it needs, as you seem to be as well. I'm unsure of the things Herakles does behind the scenes for the Awaken server, but this will continue to be an issue in Classic.

Aside from Costumes/Mounts/Pets he doesn't pick anything else for Altar. So I'm not really sure how they fall under any of this. He has no say on whether or not a Reset Scroll or a Chisel goes on what Altar or in which slot they go in. He's also been the one suggesting for a while now for us to do things like Dye Altars and Crafting Altars.

 

11 hours ago, Matt said:

I will take some blame for the lack of communication to Jult about the fort-reset thing, as you did tell me in private; although I am certain I did mention it but maybe he wasn't listening or AFK. But, most of the blame is still on yourself, you should be making a forum thread regarding this mishap.

Yes I could of made some sort of announcement and maybe choosing not to was a bad decision on my part. But honestly speaking it shouldn't be causing that much of a dilema for players to not roll altar over this.

I also won't be doing another diamond rotation over this as there has been plenty of free diamonds this time around which after seeing the piles of alt's gather in some of the screenshots I could have nerfed. But I chose to leave it as it is so I think that makes up for this matter.

However, I might do something as suggested about the resets and chisels as a middle ground.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 6:07 AM, Jult said:

Well that's just not true. I just asked questions, Aeri gave you advice. Two different things, two different goals, but go off. The questions is why are they a constant 60 and not rotating like everything else on the altar with the other level essences? Can't be pet nametags, decolorizer, portable bank/auction, repair hammer, shatter gem?

So what you the 60 essence to rotate with 55 essence and 50 essence?

Kinda what I said here right? In response to you? But talking about Stardust... Which the same can be applied to essence.

On 5/10/2021 at 10:23 PM, Jordan said:

What doesn't make sense is putting like every level of stardust on every altar because then wheres the rest of the items going to go. It also doesn't make sense to alternate them either as in my previous response (Why do I get 65 Stardust in the same position and rate as a 70 Stardust sometimes?).

When making the template I decided that slot was worth the value of a 60 Stardust not a 65. Therefore isn't it best to keep it at it's highest possible value? But if you think differently then fine I can alternate the 70 with 65 and the 60 with 55 if you feel thats better lol.

As for making it a rotating item. I mean I could possibly do that but I feel its best to always have a cheaper essence for those trying to get their achievements done. So having something lower on the altar with higher rates I feel is the best approach. It's nothing really different to what we've done for Awaken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jordan said:

This is just unfair. He was never expected to be a staff member for Classic but he took on the job of being present for both servers. He has both servers logged in atleast half the day and is always checking peer for questions and helping out players. Yes he's not the best player in the world who knows the most optimal builds in the game and be top of the scoreboards on PvP but as a staff member he goes above and beyond what is expected of him. Not to mention he single handedly tests the majority of patches for both servers without complaints giving me more time to work on each patch. So yes you could argue that sometimes he'll say something that comes across the wrong way or he gets something wrong. Nobodies perfect.

This isn't an excuse though. Staff members should be doing what they are telling the players to do. Not only did he tell us to do something to confirm something, he could've done it as well. Also, he barely is in-game on Classic. I would hardly call AFKing in-front of his NPC being online in classic. I rarely see him speak as it is, and when he is speaking it's not even in English. As I said previously in my other post I'm unsure of what he really does behind the scenes, and that's great if he is contributing that way. 

I also think the language thing is an excuse for his mistake. Herakles has created an altar thread that showcases every single altar since the inception of the server. He has screenshotted each altar, and I'm sure he is familiar with each item and how they look. I can also guarantee that he has probably scrolled his mouse over the items to look to see what they are. To sit here and tell me his first language caused him to create a mistake in his words is just ludicrous. I really feel like he was just trying to be smart because of how we were treating him in peer chat (which also is unacceptable) and it bit him in the ass when he was wrong. I feel it's this way because he hasn't been in-game or at least made it known he is in-game since. He logged off shortly after he was called out.

It's good you're considering some sort of compensation for the mishap with the fort-reset issue. I'm also disappointed that you are choosing the route of "well, they were abusing an event that the staff created, that I could reasonably anticipate would be abused" and not compensating players. Throw in another diamond altar and nerf the diamonds as you say you should have done. Seems like a reasonable response. But, you choose to blame the players rather than owning up to it. Also, you saying you could've nerfed the diamond rates for the alt gathering them, do it then. Don't just use this as an excuse not to fix your mistake. I think that's kind of stupid, you knew damn well prior to the patch that people would do that. Even with all of the alts, barely anyone got what they wanted from the diamonds (primarily stat rocks) because of how terrible the rates were (I can give actual data to this if you'd like).

Hopefully things can change because as of now I won't be spending any more money on this server because there truly is no reason to. I won't be supportive of a business that has failed time and time again to listen to customers and their input on how to help alleviate issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Jordan said:

So what you the 60 essence to rotate with 55 essence and 50 essence?

Kinda what I said here right? In response to you? But talking about Stardust... Which the same can be applied to essence

The whole point of what I said since you aren't reading past the first sentence is: WHY ARE THERE 60 ESSENCES/STARDUSTS, but pet name tags/other white items havent been on altar for months. Why did you choose these two items that i dont think anyone takes over other useful stuff...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VGN GM
3 hours ago, Jult said:

The whole point of what I said since you aren't reading past the first sentence is: WHY ARE THERE 60 ESSENCES/STARDUSTS, but pet name tags/other white items havent been on altar for months. Why did you choose these two items that i dont think anyone takes over other useful stuff...

I'm pretty sure this answers your question. But ok...

On 5/10/2021 at 10:23 PM, Jordan said:

Makes perfect sense. You have higher rates and a lower position on the altar.

Whether people take it or not that's up to them. This is what I felt was the best option and nothing you've really said has really changed my mind on that.

 

4 hours ago, Matt said:

This isn't an excuse though. Staff members should be doing what they are telling the players to do. Not only did he tell us to do something to confirm something, he could've done it as well. Also, he barely is in-game on Classic. I would hardly call AFKing in-front of his NPC being online in classic. I rarely see him speak as it is, and when he is speaking it's not even in English. As I said previously in my other post I'm unsure of what he really does behind the scenes, and that's great if he is contributing that way. 

I also think the language thing is an excuse for his mistake. Herakles has created an altar thread that showcases every single altar since the inception of the server. He has screenshotted each altar, and I'm sure he is familiar with each item and how they look. I can also guarantee that he has probably scrolled his mouse over the items to look to see what they are. To sit here and tell me his first language caused him to create a mistake in his words is just ludicrous. I really feel like he was just trying to be smart because of how we were treating him in peer chat (which also is unacceptable) and it bit him in the ass when he was wrong. I feel it's this way because he hasn't been in-game or at least made it known he is in-game since. He logged off shortly after he was called out.

I mean this is all just getting a bit petty now. No ones giving excuses and saying that what he said wasn't wrong. But giving a reason in which to maybe why he got it wrong so we can stop the "well this and well that". He made a mistake, his first language isn't English. Give it a rest already.

If the angle you're trying to get at is we need more GS or something then cool its a valid point. But as I've told you privately I don't make these types of decisions so if someone want's to step up to be a GS or knows someone who should apply. Then you can always give the recommendation and I'm sure Vivi will look into it.

 

4 hours ago, Matt said:

It's good you're considering some sort of compensation for the mishap with the fort-reset issue. I'm also disappointed that you are choosing the route of "well, they were abusing an event that the staff created, that I could reasonably anticipate would be abused" and not compensating players. Throw in another diamond altar and nerf the diamonds as you say you should have done. Seems like a reasonable response. But, you choose to blame the players rather than owning up to it. Also, you saying you could've nerfed the diamond rates for the alt gathering them, do it then. Don't just use this as an excuse not to fix your mistake. I think that's kind of stupid, you knew damn well prior to the patch that people would do that. Even with all of the alts, barely anyone got what they wanted from the diamonds (primarily stat rocks) because of how terrible the rates were (I can give actual data to this if you'd like).

I never once blamed the players at all. I simply said that the amount of free Diamonds that I could have patched out or changed after the fact I feel is enough compensation for players in regards to the Diamonds that where so drastically missed from people not wanting to roll an altar because of one slot of items wasn't rotating.

To Quote Myself:
I also won't be doing another diamond rotation over this as there has been plenty of free diamonds this time around which after seeing the piles of alt's gather in some of the screenshots I could have nerfed. But I chose to leave it as it is so I think that makes up for this matter

As for the other comment about me not owning up to it. I guess I'll quote myself again:
Yes I could of made some sort of announcement and maybe choosing not to was a bad decision on my part. But honestly speaking it shouldn't be causing that much of a dilema for players to not roll altar over this.

Guess the only thing I can add to that to make me own up to it is Sorry.

 

--

 

Anyway all this is starting to get tiresome so unless theres anything new to add that isn't TYPED LIKE THIS and isn't just nit picking at what's been said then I'll simply just not bother anymore.

The take aways so we're all on the same page is:

  • Some form of extra Scrolls and Chisels this week to cover the last 2 weeks.
  • More "special" kinds of altars, Crafting theme for example.
  • Think about increasing the EP on altar to x2 (Not saying I will but I'll think about it as valid points where raised).
  • Try to make opportunitys for other items such as the Portable's and the Nametags.
  • For @Herakles try to deviate or play more loosely with themed altars to cover more suggestions faster (Which in turn should help prevent as many repeats).
  • In future if a mistake is made make announcement in game and possible forum post.

Now again just to re-iterate to make things clear. I'm not guna sit here and argue with people on the forum all day. I have much better things to do and theres just no point because it gets no where. So just keep that in mind for future reponses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...