Elemental Expedition Feedback

[warbeast667]

So far in the few runs of playing it it's been fun (except Avner), but there is a few glaring problems in this dungeon so far.

First problem I ran into is the mob leash range like sand pigs and cursed slashers having less leash range than a Blood knight's mark aoe making it harder to pull them into a clear.

Second problem is specifically with the first two bosses (Zark and Avner) when running these bosses you either don't have enough people to dps them in a timely manner or you have too many people which makes you lag too much to cast skills.

Third problem (which might be a personal gripe) is Avner's core mechanic, like idk if it's based on how much dmg you do to him or if it's on a timer because the amount of time we get to wail on him with no dmg reduction feels very varied.

tbh there might be more complaints but idk since I haven't npc'ed for the first and third boss

[infecttado]

Dungeon is amazing.
All bosses.
My favorite? Avner, crystals players are basic, and DPS's just need stand, to kill it faster crystal players must break their respective crystals faster, it reseted bunch times, because bosses focus who's on crystal idk why they just get into us and reset, which is really bad, but at all best boss.
Others are just ok.

Its expedition of 25 members, we don't have people all time for it and consumes alot of time for now because people isn't usued to DNG mechanic.

Main problem for me, people that don't play pvp will do Lv95 statue, its much better and less stressful for majority of players.
Lv120 statues are ok, but mostly guilds now have less than 10 active players at same time, and server rarely do this expedition often, i got 2 runs at total on it, and on 2nd one i got lagged and dced on 3rd boss so i didn't got rewarded.
1st run EVERYONE was lagged, i used VPN, diferent ones, Windscribe, Exitlag, Softether , and none helped.

So far that's best map ingame, i got 0 graphic lag and i'm playing without my graphic card.

Suggestion? idk i think is just useless DNG for pve players, timezone + many things to do daily + DNG time.
Amazing idea, for me obviously that can do this dng anytime, but yeh its dead DNG cause people don't have time :c.
Ty Jordan and staff members for the patch is really amazing. 

[Jordan]

On 6/25/2022 at 3:19 AM, warbeast667 said:

First problem I ran into is the mob leash range like sand pigs and cursed slashers having less leash range than a Blood knight's mark aoe making it harder to pull them into a clear.

Could maybe try to increase them a bit if this is still the case. But I will add the game is a bit iffy with reset ranges and it either has them or doesn't in most cases. These mobs I found to be better with a reset range to kinda force the intention of completition (The pigs more so than the slashers).

 

On 6/25/2022 at 3:19 AM, warbeast667 said:

Second problem is specifically with the first two bosses (Zark and Avner) when running these bosses you either don't have enough people to dps them in a timely manner or you have too many people which makes you lag too much to cast skills.

After investigating the lag it would appear that a lot of the lag comes from too many people doing things in the same location. Now I am unable to finger point the exact solution but we may need to either upgrade the server machine or maybe look into making a channel thats similar to the Territory War channel where the raid takes place on.

I have noticed though and I assume you have by now that doing it on the less popular channels and with around 15-20 people is more ideal to combat the lag at the current moment. But we are looking into fixes for this.

On 6/25/2022 at 3:19 AM, warbeast667 said:

Third problem (which might be a personal gripe) is Avner's core mechanic, like idk if it's based on how much dmg you do to him or if it's on a timer because the amount of time we get to wail on him with no dmg reduction feels very varied.

Well its always on a timer when his core changes. But with how the game is designed the countdown skills are between 1 and 3 skills that are all on seporate cooldowns based on his HP %. So sometimes you can catch the countdown skills between cooldowns.

This is how the game works and there isn't a lot I can do about this other than play with the delays. You may have noticed a similar feeling with the Abyss boss Leonic and his stone activations.

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On 6/26/2022 at 12:31 AM, infecttado said:

Its expedition of 25 members, we don't have people all time for it and consumes alot of time for now because people isn't usued to DNG mechanic.

People will get faster as time goes on and maybe after the hype dies down and people are less inclined to do it maybe some HP nerfs can come in.

Most people in the entire history of EE have never really taken 25 people to the 25 man dungeon except for maybe 75 cap on official when Borsey was done for no reason other than fun. The dungeon was designed to be done in groups of maybe 15 and more people just make it faster. The mechanics are a lot simpler in this dungeon and are mostly focused on being player gated and not difficulty for the very purpose of being doable by anyone who has a decent set of gear.

On 6/26/2022 at 12:31 AM, infecttado said:

Main problem for me, people that don't play pvp will do Lv95 statue, its much better and less stressful for majority of players.
Lv120 statues are ok, but mostly guilds now have less than 10 active players at same time, and server rarely do this expedition often, i got 2 runs at total on it, and on 2nd one i got lagged and dced on 3rd boss so i didn't got rewarded.

This dungeon has the added bonus of having no RNG to the statue where as the Level 95 does. So if you do the math interms of statues you need 20 people per legendary statue per week. So with 10 active players and some other peer players thats twice a week you have to do the dungeon to get a statue. I put a lot of thought into guild sizes and how to balance the statues around this. But in the end if people want to take the route of 95 statues then I have nothing against that either.

 

On 6/26/2022 at 12:31 AM, infecttado said:

1st run EVERYONE was lagged, i used VPN, diferent ones, Windscribe, Exitlag, Softether , and none helped.

Yes this did worry me a fair bit. But then I realised that one fault of the run was that it was done on channel 1 like 1hour-2hours after maintenance with a big patch. So the amount of players online and the channel being one of the more popular channels was probebly a big factor in this. I will say this though.

If any more runs are laggy make sure to note down the details of the run such as classes people playing, and the channel. As there could also be other factors at play that could be assisting in creating the lag.

[infecttado]

On 7/5/2022 at 12:35 PM, Jordan said:

If any more runs are laggy make sure to note down the details of the run such as classes people playing, and the channel. As there could also be other factors at play that could be assisting in creating the lag.

I had lag at ch3 and 5 , after maint last week.
and still not getting archivement from Zark

IDK if that's limited to amount of players or i'm just getting bugged, i made sure hit/dot and haven't died in 2 runs.

that's all, its my 2nd favorite content, CC still best one

[Akyme]

Hello,

It's been many months since Elemental Expedition has been released (Patch v96, The 23th June 2022).

In my opinion, this Expedition deserve a rework to be more accessible for everyone. First example, only one guild has the statue that the expedition gives. The others actives guilds don't have it.

Those are the current most active guild (Only 2 of them are PvP). As you can see, they still use the old expedition statues. Why ? Because they can't group up 25 players, and even if they can, it'll end up by being too laggy after 15 members in the raid. 

In my opinion, this expedition should be reworked to be do-able easier as a 10 Players group, by reducing every bosses HP or resistance / or allowing 200% pots, and for the 2nd boss, reducing the space between elementals stones and boss to avoid some hard reset.
 

The dungeon is very interesting to do, mechanics are fun, but it's way too long even with a party of strong players. Increasing the amount of reward wouldn't fix the problem, only one guild would have the statues all the time. I'm very surprised that others guilds didn't ask for any change about it, since thoses statues are very good to use.

I'm pretty sure that by making it as a 10 Players party, it would add another daily PvE content to do, even if you reduce the reward it gives. 20~30 min in that Expedition would be way enough for casual players that can't play all the day.

Thanks for reading,
Yato

[Tiwaka]

I totally agree with Akyme that an overhaul of the expeditions would be greatly appreciated.🥰

[Doll]

I completely agree as well, vast majority of my guild aren't capable of undertaking it, even further not being able to get them all together to attempt it

Even if I could, spending 45+ minutes even reaching over an hour for it isn't something most people want to do, a decrease in difficulty would be much appreciated for smaller guilds

[Nanami]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:27 AM, Akyme said:

Hello,

It's been many months since Elemental Expedition has been released (Patch v96, The 23th June 2022).

In my opinion, this Expedition deserve a rework to be more accessible for everyone. First example, only one guild has the statue that the expedition gives. The others actives guilds don't have it.

Those are the current most active guild (Only 2 of them are PvP). As you can see, they still use the old expedition statues. Why ? Because they can't group up 25 players, and even if they can, it'll end up by being too laggy after 15 members in the raid. 

In my opinion, this expedition should be reworked to be do-able easier as a 10 Players group, by reducing every bosses HP or resistance / or allowing 200% pots, and for the 2nd boss, reducing the space between elementals stones and boss to avoid some hard reset.
 

The dungeon is very interesting to do, mechanics are fun, but it's way too long even with a party of strong players. Increasing the amount of reward wouldn't fix the problem, only one guild would have the statues all the time. I'm very surprised that others guilds didn't ask for any change about it, since thoses statues are very good to use.

I'm pretty sure that by making it as a 10 Players party, it would add another daily PvE content to do, even if you reduce the reward it gives. 20~30 min in that Expedition would be way enough for casual players that can't play all the day.

Thanks for reading,
Yato

Changes were asked, I did so in another forum post.

I still very much agree that it needs adjusting to accommodate the smaller player base we have on vendetta, most guilds are not many active people so smaller guilds suffer the most. 
Sure the big PvE guilds and both PvP guilds probably have enough people to do it, but getting every one at the same time to spend 1-2h doing expedition is something that majority prefer/cannot do because of timezones, work, etc.

 

[sulfidesss81]

I agree with this idea since only 1 guild is able to keep 120 expedition statues up, that just advantage to Garden which is already the most populated "strongest" guild, i think that's unfair to give advantage to only one guild.  And also with the actual player base it is really hard to find people geared enough to participate and even if you find people if their not in you'r guild (peer party by exemple) you might do the expedition a couple of time which is quiet hard maybe make it like easier and with a lower player requirement would help a lottttttt. @Jordan

[Gwen]

I Think Akyme is right.
Anyway this expedition take so much time, even if have geared 15-20Players party, and so few advantage compared to old statues.

Please rework it <3

[Jordan]

I will not be making any changes to the 25 Man Expedition.

I think people need to band together and communicate and you'll find that doing this dungeon is very easy. People had no problem doing it when it was new and a lot has changed since them in terms of the amount of damage players deal. So there is no reason that 15 people couldn't do this in less than 1 hour. It only takes 20 people running for 1 statue so if you can get atleast 10 people as you claim to suggest and then fill with 5 stragglers from other guilds then 2 runs a week and you've got urself a statue every week.

I also may do more boost events soon with double stones but even without them you should have no issues working together as a guild to do this.

To sum up some of the points made...

On 6/22/2023 at 3:27 PM, Akyme said:

Those are the current most active guild (Only 2 of them are PvP). As you can see, they still use the old expedition statues. Why ? Because they can't group up 25 players, and even if they can, it'll end up by being too laggy after 15 members in the raid. 

Also just after a quick search Stardust at the very least has enough stones for atleast 2 fused statues (400+) they're just likely using the older statues since they're not really PvPing at the moment and the difference between the two isn't big enough to justify for PvE alone.

And thats just me checking one person, if other members in the guilds are holding on to some too could be more and I only searched for who had the most in a stack and stumbled across them. So it wasn't even like i was particularly looking for them either.

 

On 6/22/2023 at 3:27 PM, Akyme said:

Those are the current most active guild (Only 2 of them are PvP). As you can see, they still use the old expedition statues. Why ? Because they can't group up 25 players, and even if they can, it'll end up by being too laggy after 15 members in the raid. 

Theres videos on youtube where there is more than 15 members where the players are not lagging. Although I'm not stupid and I know there can be lag at times with this dungeon. I suggest players make there parties on channels that are less populated like channel 2 and channel 3. This brings the chance of lagging down a lot, although I am working on optimizations when I find them to avoid anything contributing to the lag. If you find that doing this dungeon with a partiuclar class in the party makes it more laggy or if you find a particual boss is more laggy than others then please report this as this can be something I look into and potencially improving.

 

On 6/22/2023 at 3:27 PM, Akyme said:

The dungeon is very interesting to do, mechanics are fun, but it's way too long even with a party of strong players. Increasing the amount of reward wouldn't fix the problem, only one guild would have the statues all the time. I'm very surprised that others guilds didn't ask for any change about it, since thoses statues are very good to use.

I'm pretty sure that by making it as a 10 Players party, it would add another daily PvE content to do, even if you reduce the reward it gives. 20~30 min in that Expedition would be way enough for casual players that can't play all the day.

 

Was designed around having 15-20 people atleast and thats how it will stay.

 

On 7/1/2023 at 6:40 PM, Nanami said:

I still very much agree that it needs adjusting to accommodate the smaller player base we have on vendetta, most guilds are not many active people so smaller guilds suffer the most.

Player base on average has more players since your last suggestion post and small guilds can always communicate with other small guilds and organise a time with them. If you all did that then you'd be quite easily be able to fill slots. This was originally designed to be a guild exclusive dungeon and yet I changed this so guilds can cooperate with each other.

 

On 7/1/2023 at 6:40 PM, Nanami said:

Sure the big PvE guilds and both PvP guilds probably have enough people to do it, but getting every one at the same time to spend 1-2h doing expedition is something that majority prefer/cannot do because of timezones, work, etc.

Have you tried the dungeon since this suggestion post was made? Because I don't understand how you can say it takes 1.5 hours in september and still on average take the same time when since then you've had the level cap increase which increases the parties damage pretty much across the board and also now we have had new weapons added since then too which has definatly increased the damage to everyone who has it which basic assumption would be that atleast 3/4 players have these peoples by now who would be participating.

 

1 hour ago, sulfidesss81 said:

I agree with this idea since only 1 guild is able to keep 120 expedition statues up, that just advantage to Garden which is already the most populated "strongest" guild, i think that's unfair to give advantage to only one guild.  And also with the actual player base it is really hard to find people geared enough to participate and even if you find people if their not in you'r guild (peer party by exemple) you might do the expedition a couple of time which is quiet hard maybe make it like easier and with a lower player requirement would help a lottttttt. @Jordan

There is a very small advantage to having the new ones over the old ones. But nothing that would decide the fate of a PvP event, so it's not an advantage that cannot be overcome.