Nanami Posted December 28, 2025 Report Posted December 28, 2025 Petition to Revert Patch v136 & Patch v137 Patches v136 and v137 feel extremely rushed and insufficiently thought through. Over the years, the community has provided extensive feedback and suggestions regarding QoL and content changes, many of which focused on reducing unnecessary time investment in PvE content already present on the server. Unfortunately, these patches appear to have had the opposite effect, significantly increasing completion times across all PvE activities. Abyss and Deep Abyss previously took around 20–30 minutes total; they now require 1 to 1.5 hours. CC1 runs that once took 1 minute for Libra and 2 minutes for Sagittarius now take 4–5 minutes each, even with a strong party. CC2 (Pisces) is effectively no longer viable. Even before patch v136, Pisces runs already took 10–12 minutes per run. Expedition 120 has become unreasonable, and Viridian Gorge, once a 40–50 minute run (or 30 minutes with a solid party) now takes nearly twice as long. "Issue 1: Party Composition Restrictions There is now an overwhelming reliance on very specific class combinations, where replacing even a single class can make content significantly harder or unplayable. This includes rigid requirements such as mandatory Trainers, or strict Slash-only or Pierce-only party compositions. This issue has steadily grown since the release of Dragonridge Sanctuary and has continued to worsen over time. As it stands, this design direction is unwelcoming to new players, returning players, and players who may not be deeply familiar with optimal party setups." Our “strict Slash-only and Pierce-only party compositions” were a direct result of the unwelcoming content design. The resistances, mechanics, and health values assigned to bosses left players little choice but to adopt these restrictive setups. 😶 This patch is particularly unfriendly to new players. Debuff-oriented roles such as Trainer and Serker were previously the most accessible and cost-effective way for new players to begin contributing in PvE while gearing up. With debuffers effectively removed, new players now struggle to participate at all without already having significant gear. Ironically, instead of encouraging diverse party compositions, the current state of PvE has resulted in parties stacking two to three of the same DPS class. This seems to directly conflict with past design goals that emphasized avoiding repeated roles. Trainers, in particular, were never viewed as unwelcoming; they were one of the most effective ways to help newer players participate in CC1–CC2, AT/DF, Abyss, and Deep Abyss on a daily basis. Concerns With Patch Direction and Execution While these changes may have been intended to move the game in a “new direction,” the execution has been poor. The patch feels incomplete and rushed, having been released after roughly one week rather than being refined over a longer development period. Greater transparency regarding the intended long-term direction of PvE would be appreciated, as the current implementation feels unclear and unfinished. Bosses require more meaningful mechanical adjustments rather than blanket solutions such as true resistance "fixes", which true resistance currently serves only to increase clear times without adding depth or challenge. This is especially problematic now that players can no longer optimize parties around a single damage type. Additionally, the combined impact of losing debuffs and damage dealt from trophies, pets, accessories, glyphs, skills, and other systems alongside nerfs to damage increasers has exacerbated the issue. Time Investment and Community Impact Most players simply do not have the time to spend multiple hours each day on PvE content. This is especially true given the server’s low population, where peer formed parties are rare nowadays for things like Hoo, full CC runs and most of the time you will only see pre made groups of 5/5 from a single guild doing this. While it may be said that players are not required to complete all PvE daily, progression systems such as CC make that impractical. With 3,140 sparkles required for a single CC set, missing daily runs significantly delays progression though this gear has arguably lost much of its value under the current patch. Given these changes, reimbursement for gems, fortification scrolls, and stones spent on items that now require re-fortification (such as PDPS hammers converted to MDPS) or entirely new sets to "fit the new meta" would be a reasonable consideration. Closing: I hope that the development team takes the time to reassess these patches with the broader community’s experience and feedback in mind. Many players can no longer invest the same amount of time they once could since we are no longer children, and PvE should reflect that reality. I recommend reverting patches V136–137 and exploring an alternative approach to address the issues referred to as 'No. 1' and 'No. 2' that you previously mentioned, such as rebalancing and restoring classes to the same level as others prior to the nerf, and adjusting the mechanical structures and stats of bosses. Thank you for your time and consideration. Happy Holidays, and wish you the best. 11 Quote
Hoshino Posted December 28, 2025 Report Posted December 28, 2025 I strongly believe in the value of feedback and constructive criticism. However, learning that a major patch such as V136-V137 was developed in roughly one week, without systematic testing or meaningful community feedback, suggests that things were handled in the wrong direction. With the current state of the game, it no longer feels like Eden anymore. I can agree with the core idea behind the patch: encouraging more variety in party compositions and opening up alternative team setups I believe is a goal worth pursuing. That said, this rework feels heavily rushed and very poorly executed. Given the scale of the changes introduced, a detailed roadmap with multiple, incremental patches would have been far more appropriate. Instead, everything was delivered at once in what feels like an unfinished state. Patch V136 attempts to address its first major issue by mentioning the use of strict or “mandatory” class combinations, and that any changes to these combinations are completely unacceptable. I strongly disagree with this assessment. These so-called restrictive setups are the result of countless hours of testing and optimization by players who simply want the most efficient way to clear content, and I believe this behavior is entirely normal in any game. The issue does not stem from the community, but rather from how the content itself was designed and balanced. Regarding the second issue (where one “perfect” party could kill a boss in under a minute while average parties took 10–20 minutes) this problem has not been resolved and may actually be worse now. In reality, only a handful of end-game bosses were ever defeated that quickly, even with optimal setups (Not possible after nerfs such as the removal of double hit buffs in PoD or crowd-control immunity in certain CC bosses). After V136, both optimized and average parties are now taking 1.5x to 2x longer than before due to widespread damage nerfs. These include decreased damage taken, recalculated damage dealt formulas, significant nerfs to multiple classes (examples are Executioner, BM or Rifleeteer), glyphs, racial passives, etc. While the stated goal was to “reduce the power gap between top-tier and average parties”, the current implementation instead amplifies both extremes. While I see how some players want to use magic-focused classes in everyday content rather than adhere to established compositions, sometimes in search of a greater “challenge”, I believe that nerfing the overall performance across the board so that all content takes longer, simply to match those preferences, is not a healthy or fair solution. It feels as though enjoyment is being limited for some players because others are not having fun in the same way. Needless to say, there was already pre-patch content like AT/DF or VG where people could work with a mix of both compositions. Even Abyss (besides Molten), people were already applying a mix of physical and magic parties without the need of nerfing one composition or another. If fully reverting these changes is not feasible, I strongly encourage the development team to aim for a middle ground. More importantly, these changes should be developed gradually, through systematic and consistent patches, rather than being rushed out all at once and riddled with bugs. Potential alternatives could include keeping targeted resistances while rolling back the heavy nerfs to physical DPS classes, or reworking targeted resistances altogether so undergeared players can once again contribute through a more accessible “debuff” or support role in group content. Thank you for your consideration. 8 Quote
VGN GM Jordan Posted December 28, 2025 VGN GM Report Posted December 28, 2025 13 hours ago, Nanami said: Petition to Revert Patch v136 & Patch v137 Patches v136 and v137 feel extremely rushed and insufficiently thought through. Over the years, the community has provided extensive feedback and suggestions regarding QoL and content changes, many of which focused on reducing unnecessary time investment in PvE content already present on the server. Unfortunately, these patches appear to have had the opposite effect, significantly increasing completion times across all PvE activities. There will be no reversion because as the game stood its a waste of time to create content for a game in which every single new player comes in and gets completely shafted by the community as being a liability unless they play a single class leaving room for a single new person per party. 13 hours ago, Nanami said: Abyss and Deep Abyss previously took around 20–30 minutes total; they now require 1 to 1.5 hours. CC1 runs that once took 1 minute for Libra and 2 minutes for Sagittarius now take 4–5 minutes each, even with a strong party. CC2 (Pisces) is effectively no longer viable. Even before patch v136, Pisces runs already took 10–12 minutes per run. Expedition 120 has become unreasonable, and Viridian Gorge, once a 40–50 minute run (or 30 minutes with a solid party) now takes nearly twice as long. Current content should take around 10 minutes a run on average, this is the expectation from a devloper point of view. Abyss is older content which I am happy to take less time with progressed gear but going into abyss with none progressed gear like HoO gear and previous awaken sets should also take around 5-10 minutes a run. I don't really care how long it took before as it shouldn't have. I need feedback to make adjustments and since there is only 2-3 people actually providing much of any feedback you cannot expect me to make adjustments fittingly. So if you wanna give feedback, include some videos and such to help make things right. 13 hours ago, Nanami said: Our “strict Slash-only and Pierce-only party compositions” were a direct result of the unwelcoming content design. The resistances, mechanics, and health values assigned to bosses left players little choice but to adopt these restrictive setups. 😶 This patch is particularly unfriendly to new players. Debuff-oriented roles such as Trainer and Serker were previously the most accessible and cost-effective way for new players to begin contributing in PvE while gearing up. With debuffers effectively removed, new players now struggle to participate at all without already having significant gear. Ironically, instead of encouraging diverse party compositions, the current state of PvE has resulted in parties stacking two to three of the same DPS class. This seems to directly conflict with past design goals that emphasized avoiding repeated roles. Trainers, in particular, were never viewed as unwelcoming; they were one of the most effective ways to help newer players participate in CC1–CC2, AT/DF, Abyss, and Deep Abyss on a daily basis. Based on testing beserker is not much different now than it is before. Maybe in actual gameplay it is different but as far as testing was concerned beserker was still top 5 in the testing and still a very easy and accessible class to use. Having someone auto attack on a class and apply a mark to the target is not gameplay that should be encouraged. Half the community was asking me to nerf / change the class in various ways because it was boring to have in a party and often people who quit the game cited being forced to play this class being 1 of the major gripes with the server. 13 hours ago, Nanami said: Concerns With Patch Direction and Execution While these changes may have been intended to move the game in a “new direction,” the execution has been poor. The patch feels incomplete and rushed, having been released after roughly one week rather than being refined over a longer development period. Greater transparency regarding the intended long-term direction of PvE would be appreciated, as the current implementation feels unclear and unfinished. Bosses require more meaningful mechanical adjustments rather than blanket solutions such as true resistance "fixes", which true resistance currently serves only to increase clear times without adding depth or challenge. This is especially problematic now that players can no longer optimize parties around a single damage type. Additionally, the combined impact of losing debuffs and damage dealt from trophies, pets, accessories, glyphs, skills, and other systems alongside nerfs to damage increasers has exacerbated the issue. I don't see how executiuon has been poor, rushed or incomplete? It took months to finish so it certainly wasn't rushed. It's far from incomplete as every aspect of the game was adjusted. Every single class passive was evaluated and adjusted (including race based ones), lots of adjustments to racial based skills, rebalance of every single class in the game and testing to make sure they roughly produce similar numbers in damage, time to kill, dps etc. Calling it rushed and incomplete is just "I can't be assed testing things and checking thing, meh".. Execution could be considered poor to those who don't like it sure. But improvements can be made simple as that. I have already made several adjustments based on player feedback (for those who bothered). As for mechanical adjustments? Explain why thats necessary? The thing thats different now that wasn't the same as before is how classes work and interact with each other. This has no effect on the boss mechanics outside of maybe and it is reaching the amount of damage they can do or the amount of DMG Taken buff they might recieve from a certain mechanic. Max HP, True Resistances, Base Resistances are the core aspect that has been changed this patch which is why they where targeted. Give me examples if you think I'm wrong? 13 hours ago, Nanami said: Time Investment and Community Impact Most players simply do not have the time to spend multiple hours each day on PvE content. This is especially true given the server’s low population, where peer formed parties are rare nowadays for things like Hoo, full CC runs and most of the time you will only see pre made groups of 5/5 from a single guild doing this. While it may be said that players are not required to complete all PvE daily, progression systems such as CC make that impractical. With 3,140 sparkles required for a single CC set, missing daily runs significantly delays progression though this gear has arguably lost much of its value under the current patch. Given these changes, reimbursement for gems, fortification scrolls, and stones spent on items that now require re-fortification (such as PDPS hammers converted to MDPS) or entirely new sets to "fit the new meta" would be a reasonable consideration. As mentioned above my goal is an average time of 10 minutes for current content per run. I'm happy for people to take less than this but that is the goal for the average party and so far I'm seeing results of around that figure. I'm also no buying this shit that people keep saying they don't have time. It's an MMORPG game and spending 10 minutes to clear a dungeon is already short. At all times during the game before HoO and stuff came out dungeons used to take this time on average and once you where maxed yeh you could speed them up a bit but sometimes people could spend a whole hour clearing a trial. So I'm not going to sit here and bend the knee because people want to kill a boss in 30 seconds because it's actually an insane mentality to have. Why bother making more content other than chucking a boss that does nothing in the middle of a room for people, takes me a lot of time and effort to make content so yeh expecting a 5 - 10 minute run is not a lot to ask... --- I'm open to feedback. If a class is underperforming highlight it and we can test it or better yet video it comparing to something comparable and show the setups and I can make some changes accordingly. If a dungeon is taking too long and you video it, show it to me and I'm always open to making some adjustments based on honest feedback. But this whining nonsense about reverting because you cant kill a boss in 30 seconds, then I'm sorry but thats just not feedback. I'm greatful others are giving feedback and I recieved a lot of positive feedback based on the previous patch. 1 1 Quote
VGN GM Jordan Posted December 28, 2025 VGN GM Report Posted December 28, 2025 12 hours ago, Hoshino said: I can agree with the core idea behind the patch: encouraging more variety in party compositions and opening up alternative team setups I believe is a goal worth pursuing. That said, this rework feels heavily rushed and very poorly executed. Given the scale of the changes introduced, a detailed roadmap with multiple, incremental patches would have been far more appropriate. Instead, everything was delivered at once in what feels like an unfinished state. It's not possible to do this as there was massive system changes to go along with it. So classes on the new system would be flawed from release vs classes on the old system and we wouldn't get any feedback and god forbid something like Beserker, Executioner and Blade Master being one of the first classes moved over as this would be worse than the current IMO. Also generally speaking once the classes where made I think made balance changes to all classes based off the first round of feedback and then several incremental changes with each round of feedback to refine things. So it's better overall doing it the way I did it. I can assure you it was not rushed because it took months to complete this work and yes it was a grind towards the end to make it for the deadline but it was definitely not rushed. I'm not sure where this narative has come from? 12 hours ago, Hoshino said: Patch V136 attempts to address its first major issue by mentioning the use of strict or “mandatory” class combinations, and that any changes to these combinations are completely unacceptable. I strongly disagree with this assessment. These so-called restrictive setups are the result of countless hours of testing and optimization by players who simply want the most efficient way to clear content, and I believe this behavior is entirely normal in any game. The issue does not stem from the community, but rather from how the content itself was designed and balanced. You can disagree all you like but everyone I managed to speak to who had quit the game quit the game because your not allowed to play xyz at all and your not allowed to play even broadly speaking mdps classes as a whole. I mean you just have to look on google and find other posts about this server and how people speak about it to know what I'm saying is factual. I understand that its fine to have optimized setup. But when changing the executioner for example to a gravity manipulator adds an extas 30-50% time extra onto a dungeon run you can see the issue. Yes the content's tankiness was a factor to this issue but that was because if you didn't have the boss HP so high and the resistances capped with true resistances those optimized parties could kill a boss in seconds. I saw it for my own eyes during the HoO testing initially. 12 hours ago, Hoshino said: If fully reverting these changes is not feasible, I strongly encourage the development team to aim for a middle ground. More importantly, these changes should be developed gradually, through systematic and consistent patches, rather than being rushed out all at once and riddled with bugs. Potential alternatives could include keeping targeted resistances while rolling back the heavy nerfs to physical DPS classes, or reworking targeted resistances altogether so undergeared players can once again contribute through a more accessible “debuff” or support role in group content. Thank you for your consideration. Again its a waste of my time further developing the game if every future patch has to have so much HP that only a setup with xyz or abc works and nothing else is considered. I've seen videos of runs now with the same party running a boss with pdps setup and mdps setup and both runs being within 20-30 seconds of each other. Regardless of the run taking 5 minutes or 20 minutes isn't that a good change overall? That the difference that was once measured by percentage can now be measured in seconds? So yeh maybe more adjustments to HP can be made and some other adjustments outside of that to make new players damage higher or lower hp more and lower damage a bit more for the geared (like the pve dmg base on abyss sets as an example). Most people seem to like the concept of the patch anyway or atleast when speaking to me. So I presume things can be adjusted to make it right at the very least but I'll echo it again. Feedback, feedback, feedback. You cannot expect things to get better if you just ask for the broken times back where peoples only suggestion is give all mdps class pve dmg +50% and that could work. I need videos and damage readings to say yes this is overtuned, this could be improved or this could be adjusted. 1 Quote
Goldducksama Posted December 28, 2025 Report Posted December 28, 2025 I understand the goals of V136–V137 and respect the effort put into it, but I’d like to share how the current state of the game feels from the perspective of a returning player who is helping friends progress. Right now, helping newer friends grind essential accessories feels significantly harder than before. Even with experience, decent gear, and using 4T pots, clearing T130 content takes much longer than expected. This makes repeated runs for accessories very time-consuming, especially when trying to help multiple friends catch up. Because accessories are required to enter end-game content, this creates a progression wall. New players struggle to contribute meaningful damage, and even when I try to help speed things up, my impact feels limited compared to before. As a result, progression feels slower for everyone involved. In addition, many parties now look for specific DPS or well-geared players to maintain clear speed. This makes it difficult for newer players to join groups, as they are not yet geared enough for peer parties. Targeted Resistance also reduces the ability for undergeared players to contribute through debuffs or support-style roles, which previously allowed them to feel useful even without high damage. I’m not asking for easy carries or a return to broken metas. I simply hope there can be a middle ground where returning players can meaningfully help friends, and where new players can grind required accessories at a reasonable pace to reach end-game content. I appreciate that balance adjustments are ongoing and hope future changes continue to take the returning and new-player experience into account. Thank you for listening. 6 Quote
Rubia Posted December 28, 2025 Report Posted December 28, 2025 29 minutes ago, Jordan said: I can assure you it was not rushed because it took months to complete this work and yes it was a grind towards the end to make it for the deadline but it was definitely not rushed. I'm not sure where this narative has come from? I'm not saying it was rushed on your end but having been on the other side of the coin, and even though yes I did not test as much back then because of my work schedules, I'd dare to say testing wise it may have been rushed. You guys currently have 3 GS testing (i'd assume) and yet I think most was "tested" within 1 week, 2 at most and obviously not daily since people have lives. Point that was proven with this as well: However when it went live normal players when went to test classes found bugs right away myself included. Same day it went live I sent Instinct at least 2 bugs, and I know my guild mates also sent bug reports about classes both through Instinct and through Peer directly to you iirc; not even PvE. Not to mention how the Event Boss was bugged as well, and not taken into consideration the new class changes. And again it's fine for the community to find bugs, sure but when it's as soon as they press one skill... Feels like it didn't get tested at all. And it's not something 1 person alone can test, at least two so one attacks and one tanks the skills. If didn't have time with the staff to do that it's another issue, say it wasn't tested because staff couldn't find time to match schedules and it's understadable. But when you keep insisiting it was tested when some things clearly weren't, that's another thing. Speaking of PvE, even if you don't want an AFK class for newbies nor encourage it - If with an end game party going mostly full DPS I'm taking 10mins or more on CC (And it's not even Pisces or Capri), I sure as hell don't wanna take even longer to bring someone new since it's going to either mean a dead debuffer or one less DPS slot. And I don't think I'm the only one having this mindset towards this issue. My party can somewhat clear one abyss run in 4-8minutes if optimal(Which we are still trying to do), but I can say it leaves no space for any newbie. And abyss, fine is doable. But CC, even if it's supposed to be harder, it's more complicated to bring someone new to gear. And I'm still only speaking of the easiest CC aka Libra, Sagi. Personally I have yet to try and test Capricorn, Pisces, Leo... but as of now, they sound a bit iffy to even think about. Also right now towards one bug in CC Libra. If the party wipes, even if she's not in battle she will keep spamming her one shot mechanic. Here is a quickie 25second video proving it happening: This has happened in multiple runs we did. Also most of the community doesn't use forum unless it's to read patches and/or item mall suggestions. So even if it's part of the community fault you aren't getting feedback apart from the other 2-3 usual people, perhaps other GS could start taking screenshots of the constant opinions about this patch that are being spoken on peer/world and send it to you. Here's a little peek at what was going on with peer last night: If you don't do any changes because it's always the same people commenting on forums or people keep playing either way (because we enjoy our childhood game - if it was another game, most people would have already quit) well... Let's be honest even if we say anything in world/peer/ingame or even VGN Discord we don't get heard. We're always seen as a QQing community, but I speak for myself having a job and currently other issues ongoing IRL: I want to log in to a game (be it an old mmo or not) I want to have fun, I don't want it to be yet another chore. 8 Quote
Perroempapado Posted December 28, 2025 Report Posted December 28, 2025 2 hours ago, Jordan said: Most people seem to like the concept of the patch anyway or atleast when speaking to me. So I presume things can be adjusted to make it right at the very least but I'll echo it again. Feedback, feedback, feedback. You cannot expect things to get better if you just ask for the broken times back where peoples only suggestion is give all mdps class pve dmg +50% and that could work. I need videos and damage readings to say yes this is overtuned, this could be improved or this could be adjusted. Might sound straight up rude but, you seem to expect us to give you feedback on how things work now despite us not even having the feedback of what was even changed? like if we try to pinpoint an issue you can just say "it doesnt work like that" and we have to believe it and keep trying to reverse engineer formulas and item interaction priority. And more than that, how can we suggest clear improvements if when something changes it just says "adjusted"... just out of respect for the player base I feel like transparency on how was the change made is a must, no? i.e instead of "adjusted resistances" just say "the base resistances went from 100 to 50". Its not crazy to ask for this IMO. Why do we have to log in, search for old screenshots of stats and skills and compare with the new things to know what changed... and I'm not even talking about lots of times where things have gotten nerfed (example some CC gems) and the patch where it was made didn't even say anything about any "adjustment". Look, I personally get the idea behind targeted resis change however that does not mean I agree with how it was done, also how does that bring into play getting rid of most of triple hit skills? what is this so called "direction" that you want for the game? if you want better feedback you also have to tell us what changed. With how it currently all works, what I end up envisaging in how the PVE is going to get played at a "top" level is just 3 of the same top dmg class the 4th something like a buffer and the 5th a healer. And this, like always will ooze into more casual parties reducing the classes the we play overall. 2 hours ago, Jordan said: I can assure you it was not rushed because it took months to complete this work and yes it was a grind towards the end to make it for the deadline but it was definitely not rushed. I'm not sure where this narative has come from? Now regarding this, you might to remember your staff the "code of conduct" or something that you guys had and with it what things they can and/or should share. Because most of the rumors originate from there. Thanks for reading, and I hope this does not come across as too rude as english is not my main language. 7 Quote
Hoshino Posted December 28, 2025 Report Posted December 28, 2025 2 hours ago, Jordan said: Current content should take around 10 minutes a run on average, this is the expectation from a devloper point of view. Abyss is older content which I am happy to take less time with progressed gear but going into abyss with none progressed gear like HoO gear and previous awaken sets should also take around 5-10 minutes a run. I don't really care how long it took before as it shouldn't have. I'm really curious as to why is this a thing? Why does the current content have to take around 10 minutes on average, for a single run? In a game with multiple runs across multiple dungeons, this expectation dramatically increases the overall time commitment just to keep up. When each run is designed to take 10+ minutes on average, the cumulative effect becomes significant very quickly. What might sound reasonable in isolation turns into a substantial barrier in practice. Mainly, this design choice disproportionately impacts players with limited playtime such as students, working players, or those in different time zones, who may only have short windows to play. For these players, the game shifts from being something they can enjoy flexibly into something that feels like a time-gated obligation (a chore, as it has been mentioned). I also believe this approach does a worse job of achieving the stated goal of inclusivity. Longer baseline run times make parties more risk-averse, not less. When runs are already lengthy, players naturally avoid inviting under-geared or newer players because any mistake or inefficiency further extends an already long run. Ironically, this works against the idea of making content more accessible or welcoming. 2 hours ago, Jordan said: Half the community was asking me to nerf / change the class in various ways because it was boring to have in a party and often people who quit the game cited being forced to play this class being 1 of the major gripes with the server. I’m also confused by the idea that a class should be nerfed or changed primarily because it is considered “boring” to have in a party. Also wonder who really "half the community" is, as I have witnessed a very different point of view in-game and Discord. 2 hours ago, Jordan said: I've seen videos of runs now with the same party running a boss with pdps setup and mdps setup and both runs being within 20-30 seconds of each other. Regardless of the run taking 5 minutes or 20 minutes isn't that a good change overall? That the difference that was once measured by percentage can now be measured in seconds? I don’t understand why a 20-minute run would be considered a good outcome overall (specially when 20 minutes is considered a fail time in Celestial Corridor). The fact that two setups differ by only 20–30 seconds becomes largely irrelevant when the baseline duration of the run is excessively long to begin with. This ties directly into the reality that even the GS team was unable to properly test all content within a single week due to time constraints. If experienced testers cannot realistically run and validate all content in that timeframe, how is this expectation reasonable for the broader player base, many of whom have limited playtime? 3 hours ago, Jordan said: I'm also no buying this shit that people keep saying they don't have time. It's an MMORPG game and spending 10 minutes to clear a dungeon is already short. At all times during the game before HoO and stuff came out dungeons used to take this time on average and once you where maxed yeh you could speed them up a bit but sometimes people could spend a whole hour clearing a trial. So I'm not going to sit here and bend the knee because people want to kill a boss in 30 seconds because it's actually an insane mentality to have. Why bother making more content other than chucking a boss that does nothing in the middle of a room for people, takes me a lot of time and effort to make content so yeh expecting a 5 - 10 minute run is not a lot to ask... If content is shorter, more dynamic, and refreshing, why is that inherently a bad thing? Faster clears don’t eliminate challenge, they simply respect players’ time and allow room for experimentation, alt play, and whatnot. Measuring balance improvements in “seconds instead of percentages” only matters if the overall duration remains reasonable. Also, there has never been a piece of relevant or current content where bosses were consistently killed in "30 seconds" (Using extremely old content like HoO or something as a reference point doesn’t accurately represent the state of progression or balance at the time those clears occurred). Testing or showcasing speed kills in content that is far beyond its intended lifespan is not a valid comparison. Second, the idea that players asking for reasonable clear times are demanding “30-second bosses” is a false framing of the discussion. What players are pushing back against is not difficulty, but forced time inflation. There is a meaningful difference between challenging content and content that simply takes longer to complete by design. 6 Quote
VGN GM Jordan Posted December 28, 2025 VGN GM Report Posted December 28, 2025 3 hours ago, Goldducksama said: I’m not asking for easy carries or a return to broken metas. I simply hope there can be a middle ground where returning players can meaningfully help friends, and where new players can grind required accessories at a reasonable pace to reach end-game content. Since a lot of this came down to accessories I'm just going to ask what exactly you mean. Because I would assume by accessories you mean the equipment and theres plenty of decent ones from fame / trials / running maps that surely are good enough to progress. Obviously theres better ones in other content but surely theres enough decent ones around to be able to be strong. If I am wrong then if you could give me some examples of some that maybe are lacking I can always look into some changes or something? 2 hours ago, Rubia said: I'm not saying it was rushed on your end but having been on the other side of the coin, and even though yes I did not test as much back then because of my work schedules, I'd dare to say testing wise it may have been rushed. You guys currently have 3 GS testing (i'd assume) and yet I think most was "tested" within 1 week, 2 at most and obviously not daily since people have lives. Point that was proven with this as well: Well if this is all then its just completely wrong. Before most the GS got there hands on this patch it was tested by me, doudou and tekkah first as doudou invited him along to assisst him in testing. We had already been testing and working on this for around 1 month before staff got there hands on it. They where there purely for a second opinion on things and to help verify the balance changes which as far as I could grasp from the data provided they did for the most part. Yes more testing could have gone further but the patch took way longer than expected and we still had a deadline. However, I was not unhappy with the state of the patch on release and there was very minimal bugs considering the things you don't see is almost every skill got reworked for optimization purpose. So even skills you look at an have had 0 changes has likely been changed to some degree. Every bug reported to me was fixed for last patch. I can tell you now from me finding bugs with the classes that nobody has either noticed or pointed out to me there was more bugs before the patch with the classes than after the patch. I'm not going to come here saying testing is perfect but I'm 1 person doing all the work here and doudou did 90% of the testing. You aint going to get perfection. 2 hours ago, Rubia said: Also most of the community doesn't use forum unless it's to read patches and/or item mall suggestions. So even if it's part of the community fault you aren't getting feedback apart from the other 2-3 usual people, perhaps other GS could start taking screenshots of the constant opinions about this patch that are being spoken on peer/world and send it to you. Here's a little peek at what was going on with peer last night: If you don't do any changes because it's always the same people commenting on forums or people keep playing either way (because we enjoy our childhood game - if it was another game, most people would have already quit) well... Let's be honest even if we say anything in world/peer/ingame or even VGN Discord we don't get heard. We're always seen as a QQing community, but I speak for myself having a job and currently other issues ongoing IRL: I want to log in to a game (be it an old mmo or not) I want to have fun, I don't want it to be yet another chore. I spent hours online seeing what the community said and talking and discussing with them. I also get constant print screens from members of staff about what people are saying in game. Nobody cares if people come the forums to give feedback because if people actually care to give feedback they can quite easily do so. Several people have pm'd me through other people including your own friend as you sent this post as they found a way to sort it out. I'm also getting pretty sick of this fence hopping you're doing where you say one thing to me and one thing to your crew (the people posting on this). You where a member of staff for a long time and also friends on discord and I don't recall you really every suggesting against a change or disagreeing with me but now you're saying you're ignored? I'm not on the VGN discord so maybe you're only posting there but since you have a direct line of communication I suggest you use it? 1 hour ago, Hoshino said: I'm really curious as to why is this a thing? Why does the current content have to take around 10 minutes on average, for a single run? In a game with multiple runs across multiple dungeons, this expectation dramatically increases the overall time commitment just to keep up. When each run is designed to take 10+ minutes on average, the cumulative effect becomes significant very quickly. What might sound reasonable in isolation turns into a substantial barrier in practice. Mainly, this design choice disproportionately impacts players with limited playtime such as students, working players, or those in different time zones, who may only have short windows to play. For these players, the game shifts from being something they can enjoy flexibly into something that feels like a time-gated obligation (a chore, as it has been mentioned). I also believe this approach does a worse job of achieving the stated goal of inclusivity. Longer baseline run times make parties more risk-averse, not less. When runs are already lengthy, players naturally avoid inviting under-geared or newer players because any mistake or inefficiency further extends an already long run. Ironically, this works against the idea of making content more accessible or welcoming. Because when I design the bosses and there mechanics they're designed around the concept of the total dungeon time being around 10 minutes as people with up-to-date gear. So in the case of Deep Abyss for example, 10 minutes for people without Deep Abyss gear (So AT/DF weapons and Abyss gears) as these where what was current at the time. AT/DF was designed with HoO Weapons and Abyss gears as these where what was current. Now I don't even know what you even want? Because you call this a chore and time gated but yet like what else is there in the game? Like this is the game, the PvE is the game. These so called chores is literally the game? Like what are you logging in for if you don't want to do the content? Because as far as I'm made abundantly aware most of you guys don't PvP which the only other thing to do in the game. So what is it you actually login for as if all the PvE is a chore then whats left? This is an actual question by the way because if there is a content that isn't a chore then maybe I should be doing more of that? 1 hour ago, Hoshino said: I don’t understand why a 20-minute run would be considered a good outcome overall (specially when 20 minutes is considered a fail time in Celestial Corridor). The fact that two setups differ by only 20–30 seconds becomes largely irrelevant when the baseline duration of the run is excessively long to begin with. You missed the point completely. Spoiler I've seen videos of runs now with the same party running a boss with pdps setup and mdps setup and both runs being within 20-30 seconds of each other. Regardless of the run taking 5 minutes or 20 minutes isn't that a good change overall? That the difference that was once measured by percentage can now be measured in seconds? I didn't say 5 minutes or 20 minutes is good. I said the fact that a run between a pdps party and an mdps party is now seconds apart rather than before where the mdps was only an option on bosses that where literally immune to physical damage. I was explaining that the balance is really close now making more setups and more classes closer to each other. When i mentioned the times I meant that it doesnt matter how long it takes, aslong as they're close that means the balance of classes was good not the balance of the dungeons. 1 hour ago, Hoshino said: I’m also confused by the idea that a class should be nerfed or changed primarily because it is considered “boring” to have in a party. Also wonder who really "half the community" is, as I have witnessed a very different point of view in-game and Discord. The angry voices shout the loudest. Also people may PM me or other staff one thing and then speak publicly a different way. As mention in another response in this message Rubia does the same thing. 1 hour ago, Hoshino said: If content is shorter, more dynamic, and refreshing, why is that inherently a bad thing? Faster clears don’t eliminate challenge, they simply respect players’ time and allow room for experimentation, alt play, and whatnot. Measuring balance improvements in “seconds instead of percentages” only matters if the overall duration remains reasonable. Also, there has never been a piece of relevant or current content where bosses were consistently killed in "30 seconds" (Using extremely old content like HoO or something as a reference point doesn’t accurately represent the state of progression or balance at the time those clears occurred). Testing or showcasing speed kills in content that is far beyond its intended lifespan is not a valid comparison. Second, the idea that players asking for reasonable clear times are demanding “30-second bosses” is a false framing of the discussion. What players are pushing back against is not difficulty, but forced time inflation. There is a meaningful difference between challenging content and content that simply takes longer to complete by design. Again the point is there and you missed it. I was talking about HoO in testing. As for the rest, a lot of bosses have cooldowns on passives and skills around the minute mark. So yes too fast is bad as either the mechanics need more speeding up which leads to longer runs because mechanics are spammed or not enough time to react. I'm not against content being shorter where appropriate. Abyss has 1 boss and Deep Abyss technically has 1 boss with 2 phases. These should take a bit longer because your only killing the one monster. AT/DF should have quicker bosses because you have a little bit of running to do and you have 3 of them to kill. I've had several videos now from several people of doing AT/DF before the patch and after the patch and taking roughly 10 minutes even without being fully stacked (people with slightly older gear mostly so returning people). I have also seen abyss runs in 5 mins or less and usually its only Spike that takes people just over 5 minutes if they do run over. These runs vary from fully stacked parties to ones with maybe 1 or 2 people who are lower in gear. So I don't actually see a problem with this especially after the changes made last week. --- So I'm going to be blunt here because this is a waste of everyones time involved. I will only respond further when feedback is provided as right now its a bunch of people all from the same echo chamber providing different approaches on the same point without providing anything meaningful in terms of feedback and its just kinda pointless. I already explained I wouldn't be making future content without changes like this in as even with every new content "HP too high", "Trainer boring" and "LF party must have sagi to do sagi". There will be no reversion but their is room for improvement. Now if you want to help with the improvement then sure I'm all ears but you're going to have to back it up with some for of evidence and results based analysis and not just feelings. I apologize if I come across as rude but we all work hard to keep this game running and the best it can be and just because you don't agree with my decision doesn't mean I'm wrong (even if I don't get it perfect at first). 1 1 1 Quote
Himeko Posted December 28, 2025 Report Posted December 28, 2025 1 hour ago, Jordan said: I'm also getting pretty sick of this fence hopping you're doing where you say one thing to me and one thing to your crew (the people posting on this). You where a member of staff for a long time and also friends on discord and I don't recall you really every suggesting against a change or disagreeing with me but now you're saying you're ignored? I'm not on the VGN discord so maybe you're only posting there but since you have a direct line of communication I suggest you use it? Just a friendly reminder, that this topic was opened because it was meant for a healthy discussion, not personal attacks aimed at people responding. This seems really unprofessional as you are the main figurehead of VGN itself. No one has made any personal attack towards you or any staff member. We are all discussing the game, community, and the most recent patch. I don't see a need for a personal attack calling out someone who simply wanted to contribute to the conversation. 1 hour ago, Jordan said: Before most the GS got there hands on this patch it was tested by me, doudou and tekkah first as doudou invited him along to assisst him in testing. We had already been testing and working on this for around 1 month before staff got there hands on it. They where there purely for a second opinion on things and to help verify the balance changes which as far as I could grasp from the data provided they did for the most part. I don't want this to come off across as rude, as I don't have any problems with the staff members mentioned or players mentioned - but why is a player that is not a GS anymore testing the patch first before the rest of the actual staff members are? I understand that DouDou is Head GS, so it makes sense that he gets the first priority in terms of testing. However, why is it that a player is allowed to test the upcoming patches before the rest of the staff does? This makes me (and I'm sure majority people reading this chain of posts) feel like you don't respect the opinion of your staff. The only GS that I see playing the game as intended is Instinct. He plays PvE and PvP on a regular basis. As soon as the patch came out, from what I saw, he was the only GS testing and making parties to play the content. --- My final thoughts are that I do like that you have made the MDPS classes more balanced with the PDPS classes. I do like that more classes are viable and that anyone has the option to play any class they want. However, I've done PvE since the patch has come out, and I've quickly noticed that every party that I've gone to with different players, always ends up including a Totem Master or Adjudicator (depending if the party is going MDPS or PDPS), Darkness Blade (sometimes 2 or 3 Darkness Blades), Kage, and Paladin (for the new players as it's the easiest class they can play right now and can contribute to the run without losing damage overall). 5 1 Quote
BloomingStar Posted December 28, 2025 Report Posted December 28, 2025 Hi, um I'm just saying this not as feedback but just throwing it out there (will probably get hate but whatever) I've seen in this entire forum post, that a lot of people mention that many parties cant bring a newbie because they are not geared or somewhat geared and if they take them, it will last more time than usual. That a lot of people are avoding newbies and such.. Before this Patch came out, nobody wanted to help newbies because they "had no gear" or "could not follow instructions" and wanted only "perfect" runs (aka 1 -2 minutes per run) and only 100% achievement to participate (I do have ss of that). I was helping ppl in Legendary and peer ppl, and it was not 1-2 min per run, prob 5 or more (don't remember). In this current Patch, people keep saying that you can't bring a new player, because too much time. In my party, we have a newbie. This person has somewhat of gear (non awaken 125 gear) classes between 100 - 110 + accursed weapons or vendetta weapons for Trainer and Zerker debuffer. We had to help this person get a decent shield to play Shielder/Paladin. They have decent gems and decent accesories/trophies. And this person is slowly getting gear for mdps stuff. So in a way, YOU CAN bring a newbie with somewhat of gear or barely any gear + HP/Cloth/Heavy/MS/Weapon Achievements + listen to instructions. All people need is "Patience" (and tbh I do have a life + other stuff to do in rl) + I do racials for the game and that takes a LOT of my time. When I bring 1 newbie in party, our runs yeah, they take 10 minutes in deep abyss / less than 10 in abyss, I really don't care, my party doesn't care, (well idk if the 4th person minds, but so far they have been ok with the time + a newbie coming) all just to help the newbie get better gear. I would love to take 2 newbies in a party, but so far can only take 1, since the only class a newbie can play atm is Shielder/Paladin (until more are discovered or newbie is no longer a newbie). I haven't gone to cc with a newbie, but if people do say that average runs take...20 minutes, MAYBE..maybe, extend the time to 30 min? since 20 min in cc is a failed attempt. But in a way, I do get this patch (in a tiny way). Yes people used to rush content and complete their gear in a week or so and then they would leave, now its longer, but the result will be the same eventually, get geared (or rage quit) then leave game until new stuff comes out. But yeah..some people did gem weapons and now they are useless because some weapons (aka hammer) have changed type. but end point, you can bring a newbie, just need patience. that is all :3 Have a lovely day~ 3 Quote
Zhaus Posted December 29, 2025 Report Posted December 29, 2025 As you mentioned previously, the point of this patch was to add variety in classes that are viable to be played in PvE content. However, this feels pointless, as with the current state of the PvE meta, people will play the best in slot class, as class synergy doesn't matter anymore. As an example, in the previous meta, players would synergize Blade Master knockdown with Berserker fear, as well as some classes were played to reduce resistances and defenses of end-game PvE content. With the way that the current patch was designed, it is a must that players debuff for themselves if they are playing a DPS class, as there are no more class synergies as well as roles to debuff for the DPS players. Currently, players must sacrifice using a full Celestial Corridor combination (trophies, rings, and cape) if they do not have a debuff pet corresponding with the damage type that they are playing as. This entirely defeats the purpose of using different classes in the same party. The current content was designed for the previous meta. Examples are the auto attack damage reduction as well as true physical resistances. As mentioned previously, this forces players to play multiples of the same class in each party. This is a problem for new players, as they don't have DPS classes geared for an efficient run - efficient as in the 5-10 minute timeframe that you have mentioned earlier. While the current best in slot classes are not a problem for end-game players, it is a severe problem for new, returning, and under-geared players. If the problem was that the "debuffer" or "trainer" role was ""too boring" to play, I feel that the class could've been tweaked or you could've introduced a rework for an underperforming class. An example could have been nerfing the Trainer mark while buffing the Trainer pet damage, and increasing the cooldown on the mount, as DPS Trainer wasn't bad - it was actually viable. The current sentiment right now is that the HP of bosses is still too high, and that end-game players don't want to feel like the progression that they have made feels like it's been reduced to nothing. End-game players do want to help new players gear and reach the level that those players are at. Thoughts are by Zhaus, written by Himeko. 6 Quote
VGN GM Jordan Posted December 29, 2025 VGN GM Report Posted December 29, 2025 44 minutes ago, Himeko said: Just a friendly reminder, that this topic was opened because it was meant for a healthy discussion, not personal attacks aimed at people responding. This seems really unprofessional as you are the main figurehead of VGN itself. No one has made any personal attack towards you or any staff member. We are all discussing the game, community, and the most recent patch. I don't see a need for a personal attack calling out someone who simply wanted to contribute to the conversation. I don't want this to come off across as rude, as I don't have any problems with the staff members mentioned or players mentioned - but why is a player that is not a GS anymore testing the patch first before the rest of the actual staff members are? I understand that DouDou is Head GS, so it makes sense that he gets the first priority in terms of testing. However, why is it that a player is allowed to test the upcoming patches before the rest of the staff does? This makes me (and I'm sure majority people reading this chain of posts) feel like you don't respect the opinion of your staff. The only GS that I see playing the game as intended is Instinct. He plays PvE and PvP on a regular basis. As soon as the patch came out, from what I saw, he was the only GS testing and making parties to play the content. Since these aren't related to the topic but rather me / the network i will respond. I am not the figurehead of VGN. I am the developer of EE and that is it. I was simply calling out a few inconsistencies in what the person has posted publicly and how they have behaved privately and have since discussed it with them at length privately and cleared up some misunderstanding. Ever since the start of the server we have allowed staff to bring 1 friend who they trust to help them test as we understand staff do not always get along with each other or are able to test with each other. These people have to be verified by myself as being trustable and the trust fallsback on the inviter so if they leaked then the person who invited them is responsible. I'm not going to sit here and explain the inner workings of the team but I will say that doudou was more of a right hand man for me so he gets my messy files with my messy notes and is able to look through them something that instinct is not informed about as he has not been in the team as long (I have been factoring him in to major testing more and more each time theres a big patch). I do feel like a couple of small things where missed which maybe I do need new staff specifically aimed at testing because I was unhappy with some of the bugs that made it to live. But overall I'm not disappointed with the amount of bugs and issues as there was not so many and the HP issues from patch days are an issue with my maths not their maths or testing (However, was stated on the patch notes). Just a few things to touch on here as they relate to feedback more than anything. 27 minutes ago, Zhaus said: As you mentioned previously, the point of this patch was to add variety in classes that are viable to be played in PvE content. However, this feels pointless, as with the current state of the PvE meta, people will play the best in slot class, as class synergy doesn't matter anymore. As an example, in the previous meta, players would synergize Blade Master knockdown with Berserker fear, as well as some classes were played to reduce resistances and defenses of end-game PvE content. With the way that the current patch was designed, it is a must that players debuff for themselves if they are playing a DPS class, as there are no more class synergies as well as roles to debuff for the DPS players. Currently, players must sacrifice using a full Celestial Corridor combination (trophies, rings, and cape) if they do not have a debuff pet corresponding with the damage type that they are playing as. This entirely defeats the purpose of using different classes in the same party. The current content was designed for the previous meta. Examples are the auto attack damage reduction as well as true physical resistances. As mentioned previously, this forces players to play multiples of the same class in each party. This is a problem for new players, as they don't have DPS classes geared for an efficient run - efficient as in the 5-10 minute timeframe that you have mentioned earlier. While the current best in slot classes are not a problem for end-game players, it is a severe problem for new, returning, and under-geared players. If the problem was that the "debuffer" or "trainer" role was ""too boring" to play, I feel that the class could've been tweaked or you could've introduced a rework for an underperforming class. An example could have been nerfing the Trainer mark while buffing the Trainer pet damage, and increasing the cooldown on the mount, as DPS Trainer wasn't bad - it was actually viable. The current sentiment right now is that the HP of bosses is still too high, and that end-game players don't want to feel like the progression that they have made feels like it's been reduced to nothing. End-game players do want to help new players gear and reach the level that those players are at. Thoughts are by Zhaus, written by Himeko. 1. Every video people have sent me of the content and most of the videos are fine times like 5-7 minutes deep abyss runs and 12 mins or less AT/DF runs have been using many different classes. Theres a couple of more common ones like DB and AE are the most common MDPS and Assassin the most common pdps but theres lots of different classes. So again not perfect but I think has been more successful than not? 2. There is room for refinements but as it stands I think one mistake people make is only testing on Doudou who has max resistance. I think that some places in the game you have bosses with lower resistances and there becomes a point where the CC sets shine over resistance dropping. Theres also a good mixture of the CC set and the resistance dropping that can be achieved. 3. This was all adjusted on the last patch (137). So it is now designed for the current state of affairs. Again improvements could be made but as of the moment if i was to remake the content it would likely have the same level of true resistance and basic attack reduction as it has now. 4. The issue wasn't trainer being bad, the issue was that it provided too much value with nothing and nerfing it to require gear would have resulted in the same situation now except worse. It wasn't a case of the class being boring it was a case of the class gave your team so much damage that geared or not it was better than having someone geared on a different class. 5. I would like some more information on this as it stands right now I have a number of people getting couple minute runs on abyss and saying its perfectly fine how it is and then I have people saying its not fine. So more perspectives is welcome. 1 Quote
Psion's Booper Posted December 29, 2025 Report Posted December 29, 2025 All I'm gonna say is: ✨Welcome, everyone. ✨ Glad to have you here in my world. 3 Quote
OptikuMSd Posted December 29, 2025 Report Posted December 29, 2025 On behalf of the Garden guild, we would like to express our full support for Jordan and the recent patch and meta adjustments. We understand the challenges that come with significant PvE changes and recognize that such updates are intended to guide Eden Eternal into a new and healthier direction. While we stand behind the overall vision and are committed to adapting, we would also like to respectfully note that we do not fully agree with the extent of the recent class nerfs. In our view, selective buffs or lighter adjustments may help maintain balance without limiting class identity and gameplay diversity. Despite differing opinions on certain tuning decisions, we trust the development process and will continue to support the growth and evolution of Eden Eternal. As a guild, we remain united and ready to embrace this new era. 6 1 4 Quote
hiersen Posted December 29, 2025 Report Posted December 29, 2025 I'm lazy to read all that, so i'm just gonna drop a suggestion here. Can you make it so the -res daggers also reduce elemental resistances so kageryu can actually benefit from them? I do agree with the part of the patch that aim to make you able to play everyclass, I myself was complaining I couldn't use a class I like (Time Manipulator) in any content because it wasn't worth the hassle. I even took a new player (or at least ungeared) into abyss as a paladin, so he could be and feel useful. Honestly wasn't that bad, but that's abyss so yeah. The problem with the patch is that it definitely just switched the "eh newbie go trainer" to "eh newbie go paladin" which i don't think was the goal. And that's when newbies even get "accepted" in parties, which is a problem with the community more than the game itself, but that's another discussion that isn't relevant right now. The problem with the targeted resistance patch in a way, is that the classes without a way to reduce said targeted resistances innately, or a way to boost their dps (like assassin with the toggle, asura with buffs and so on) are gonna underperform. I'll take two examples, AE and Time Manipulator, both as Ice dps. AE can boost its own m-atk, ice penetration, and reduce targeted res. In what world would I pick time manipulator, that can't do none of that, except m-atk with the toggle. Sure, you have a KD, and a root, but honestly, It's not gonna help on that case. I went to bully doudou on guild town using both ae and time to check, using only triple hit damage on it, and AE after stacking ice stance passive, was doing 20k dmg/hit (not counting multi hit) more than Time. and if we add the - ice res, double the damage. It's without taking into account the magic burst buff, or the arctic storm buff, those end up being almost 3 times the damage of time manipulator. Now, if we factor the holy skills which is the only way for Time manipulator to reduce the res, the difference becomes "slightly" less, just a meagre two time the damage. For the record, I tested with similar conditions, the only difference being the weapon, staff for AE, Grimoire for Time manipulator. All in all, my opinion on the patch is mixed, there is good, but also no good. Helping newbies didn't feel much different than before, except it took a bit longer. 3 Quote
VGN GM Jordan Posted December 29, 2025 VGN GM Report Posted December 29, 2025 9 hours ago, OptikuMSd said: On behalf of the Garden guild, we would like to express our full support for Jordan and the recent patch and meta adjustments. We understand the challenges that come with significant PvE changes and recognize that such updates are intended to guide Eden Eternal into a new and healthier direction. While we stand behind the overall vision and are committed to adapting, we would also like to respectfully note that we do not fully agree with the extent of the recent class nerfs. In our view, selective buffs or lighter adjustments may help maintain balance without limiting class identity and gameplay diversity. Despite differing opinions on certain tuning decisions, we trust the development process and will continue to support the growth and evolution of Eden Eternal. As a guild, we remain united and ready to embrace this new era. I appreciate the positive feedback thank you. If you have any class suggestions feel free to put them forward. It's hard to sort of say the goal wasn't to nerf specific classes but to nerf the numbers on everything to shorten some of the power creep in the game as a whole. But obviously the more egregious a class was the more of a "nerf" it recieved. But I'm open to fixing things and based off the current state I don't particularlly think I'd have to nerf any classes to achieve balance as of the moment but buff some of the weaker things. 9 hours ago, hiersen said: Can you make it so the -res daggers also reduce elemental resistances so kageryu can actually benefit from them? For the record, I tested with similar conditions, the only difference being the weapon, staff for AE, Grimoire for Time manipulator. Can take a look into it for sure. Time Manipulator had a bit of a weird position as it wasn't particularly bad but it was on the lower end. I will be looking into improvements for it but we have to be careful with that class as it can become a meance in PvP quite easily. As someone who played the class a fair bit. Demon Summoner is also in this question as again wasn't bad but was at the lower end and could do with some adjustments. Thank you for the feedback. 1 Quote
Goldducksama Posted December 29, 2025 Report Posted December 29, 2025 17 hours ago, Jordan said: Since a lot of this came down to accessories I'm just going to ask what exactly you mean. Because I would assume by accessories you mean the equipment and theres plenty of decent ones from fame / trials / running maps that surely are good enough to progress. Obviously theres better ones in other content but surely theres enough decent ones around to be able to be strong. If I am wrong then if you could give me some examples of some that maybe are lacking I can always look into some changes or something? Even with full endgame accessories, content is taking 10+ minutes to clear. Is the expectation that we must have Trial or Frame accessories just to make the time investment even remotely reasonable? The shift to additive DMG math and Targeted Resistance has killed party synergy and made the daily grind a tedious chore. Many of us have full-time jobs and only 2–3 hours a day to play; under this system, you can’t even finish dailies in that window, let alone enjoy the game. Most players are only pushing through this tedious PvE right now because of the Christmas Event. Once the event ends, do you really think people will continue doing such long, unrewarding runs? Veterans feel nerfed and new players are less useful than ever. 4 Quote
Nanami Posted December 30, 2025 Author Report Posted December 30, 2025 On 12/28/2025 at 11:29 AM, Jordan said: If a dungeon is taking too long and you video it, show it to me and I'm always open to making some adjustments based on honest feedback. I did not record every PvE instance I completed. That responsibility belongs to the testing team…and based on the current state of dungeon runs, it is clear that proper testing did not take place. On 12/28/2025 at 11:29 AM, Jordan said: I'm also no buying this shit that people keep saying they don't have time. It's an MMORPG game and spending 10 minutes to clear a dungeon is already short. At all times during the game before HoO and stuff came out dungeons used to take this time on average and once you where maxed yeh you could speed them up a bit but sometimes people could spend a whole hour clearing a trial. So I'm not going to sit here and bend the knee because people want to kill a boss in 30 seconds because it's actually an insane mentality to have. Why bother making more content other than chucking a boss that does nothing in the middle of a room for people, takes me a lot of time and effort to make content so yeh expecting a 5 - 10 minute run is not a lot to ask... I genuinely don’t understand why feedback and suggestions especially when delivered politely are so often met with aggression or dismissed as “QQing” or “whining.” That reaction has been directed not only at me, but increasingly at others as well, and it’s discouraging. At this point, I’m frustrated. The staff needs to step back and actually listen. Run polls, actively gather player feedback, and stop expecting the community to do the staff’s testing for them because they are too lazy. Too often suggestions are ignored or immediately shut down without discussion. There is a noticeable lack of effort in certain areas (@theGSteam), including staff members sitting on untagged characters playing while players are actively seeking GS help. To be clear, I’m not saying you personally (Jordan) have done nothing. However, compared to earlier years, the overall level of care and responsiveness toward this server has significantly declined. I also don’t think the issue with “10m+ runs” is being fully understood. There are three runs per CC, six different CC dungeons, and they’re available six days a week. Even before the patch, some of these runs were already close to 10 minutes. CC alone could easily take four hours especially in peer parties, assuming one even forms. We’re adults now. Nothing should take longer than 2–3 minutes per run. We simply don’t have the time to spend: 2 hours in Abyss 4–6 hours in CC1 & CC2 another 1–1.5 hours in AT/DF & Viridian Gorge 30-1m (pre-patch). 30m Sky Tower 30m Dreadlore 30m+ Daylight Forest None of this includes the time it takes to search for people to fill the parties when needed. Just to keep up with the main gearing dungeons. On top of that, the 130T drop rate is extremely low, and class drops don’t even guarantee the item. Pre-nerf, we could cap all runs in about two hours. Now, to reroll once for a 120 weapon, we’re expected to use a 3:1 ratio which is hardly new-player friendly. As for endgame bosses: none of them have ever died in 30 seconds. Pre-nerf Libra runs were around 1:20 with a fully optimized, podded party and the use of engineer potions. Sagi was 1:40–2:00. That wasn’t a problem it was refreshing to have a couple of encounters that were quick compared to everything else added to the game. Please, listen to the entire community to find some common ground. Nerfs are not always the answer. Please, take the time to play your own game. Make a character anonymously, gear it through peer the same way we have to, and experience it firsthand. Then ask yourself after working 6–12 hours, caring for sick or disabled parents, going to school, and having only 2–3 hours left to relax with friends whether these changes are actually fun, and whether 10-minute runs per dungeon are reasonable. I would like to openly acknowledge this and apologize for any instances where I came across as rude, as that was never my intention. I’m fed up with the constant and exhausting hostility within the EE community. Personal dislike or past disagreements do not justify the behavior we’ve seen by players and staff alike. I’ve said before that I disagreed strongly with some patch decisions, and I acknowledge how that came across. But aside from forum posts and criticism, I’ve never done anything to deserve snarky attitudes or mean-spirited responses toward me, my friends, or other people who are simply trying to provide our feedback. We’re all adults. Instead of dismissing concerns, ignoring suggestions, and attacking each other, we should be having productive discussions aimed at fixing problems many players are clearly experiencing. Why does it always have to escalate to this point? I’ve disbanded my own guild town, as well as another that was largely mine. I then re-leveled STARDUST, PENGUIN, and LOLLIPOP. Those were my choices, and I’ve long since made peace with them. For some of us, the forums are the only way to reach you. You aren’t in the VGN Discord, and not everyone has you added. If you ever want to talk things out, you know where to find me. You’re welcome to add me so we can actually discuss things and work through whatever resentment exists. This isn’t the “evidence-based analysis” you asked for, so whether you consider it is up to you. You may close the thread if this isn’t the feedback you were looking for. Happy New Year. I genuinely wish everyone the best, and good luck going forward. ⭐🎉🎄 7 Quote
Mark20 Posted December 30, 2025 Report Posted December 30, 2025 Since am once the head on behalf of the BigBrain squad, we would like to express our full support the recent patch and meta adjustments. To be honest, the changes initially had a big impact, but as the days went by I understood the direction and vision that the current GM has, Likewise, I must also mention, without intending to create victims or future victims, that there are things and attitudes that will NEVER change. After a quick review of the criticisms, perspectives, and attempted tests, I regret to inform you that they are VERY WRONG. The current patch, from my point of view, is focused more on the participation of all 5 players, not on having AFK mules doing basic hits with the trainer/zeker. I'm absolutely certain that, from different player perspectives, Jordan could make adjustments based on the quality of their gaming. Is it the testers' job? Yes, of course, but YOU can also prove they were completely or partially wrong. We understand the challenges that come with significant PvE changes and recognize that such updates are intended to guide Eden Eternal into a new and healthier direction. While we stand behind the overall vision and are committed to adapting, we would also like to respectfully note that we do not fully agree with the extent of the recent class nerfs. In our view, selective buffs or lighter adjustments may help maintain balance without limiting class identity and gameplay diversity. Despite differing opinions on certain tuning decisions, we trust the development process and will continue to support the growth and evolution of Eden Eternal. As a squad, we remain united and ready to embrace this new era. WELCOME TO EE WITHOUT BASIC HIT's TRAINER / OR DOUBLE ACCOUNT without taking returned players cuz they're gonna be "maybe" bad players Live, enjoy, purifying your gaming life Thoughts are by Mark, written by Asa. Cheers 3 1 2 Quote
VGN GM Jordan Posted January 2 VGN GM Report Posted January 2 On 12/30/2025 at 12:55 AM, Nanami said: I did not record every PvE instance I completed. That responsibility belongs to the testing team…and based on the current state of dungeon runs, it is clear that proper testing did not take place. I genuinely don’t understand why feedback and suggestions especially when delivered politely are so often met with aggression or dismissed as “QQing” or “whining.” That reaction has been directed not only at me, but increasingly at others as well, and it’s discouraging. Nobody expects you to record anything. Testing in a test environment and testing in an actual environment is two different things and you of all people having helped test for many years should know this better than anyone. Yes nobodies saying testing was perfect it wasn't, but it never really has been its always been the best with what we can do. You can say the post was polite all you like but theres an underlying tone with all your posts of a passive aggressive nature. Now you tell me this. If you are in my position and several people come to me with videos and feedback showing times that are mostly acceptable then you come to this post with numbers that are vastly different claiming the worlds on fire. Who am I more likely to listen to, the video evidence and the feedback that accompanies it or the person who makes a post most patches looking for anything to nit pick (or his/her echo chamber of guild mates and friends who post the same feedback but worded differently). I mean outside of you telling them to copy you and post even if you didn't say that, they where still more than likely in the same party so likely had a mirrored experience. On 12/30/2025 at 12:55 AM, Nanami said: I also don’t think the issue with “10m+ runs” is being fully understood. There are three runs per CC, six different CC dungeons, and they’re available six days a week. Even before the patch, some of these runs were already close to 10 minutes. CC alone could easily take four hours especially in peer parties, assuming one even forms. We’re adults now. Nothing should take longer than 2–3 minutes per run. We simply don’t have the time to spend: 2 hours in Abyss 4–6 hours in CC1 & CC2 another 1–1.5 hours in AT/DF & Viridian Gorge 30-1m (pre-patch). 30m Sky Tower 30m Dreadlore 30m+ Daylight Forest None of this includes the time it takes to search for people to fill the parties when needed. But you see this is why you lose your credibility. You add loads of numbers and content to try and bulk it out and make it look massive. Like why is dreadlore / sky tower and daylight forest on here. These are hyper specific examples that are a "run when needed" and not a daily event. 2 hours in absys? at a suspected 10 mins a run for deep abyss (even though most are back to like 5 minute runs after 137) thats 40 minutes maximum on deep abyss and while abyss at the gear grade of the time would be 10 minutes a run it will atleast be less than deep abyss so even at worse case scenario thats 40 + 40 which is 1 hour and 20 minutes not 2 hours. But imo for geared +1 straggler your looking more along the lines at around half that easily. 4-6 hours in CC (most players I speak to don't do this daily and the ones that do are more focused clears and not a full clear). However, that being said again you only have to look at the people who have completed CC post patch and see that CC1 is taking usually 4 minutes or less for the most part and CC2 is less than 10 minutes. Since resetting there isn't a lot of data but so far across the 18 runs a day (0 on thursdays) your looking at what if we round up to 5 minutes is 2 hours and 15 minutes and not as you claimed 4-6 hours. AT/DF from the evidence i have with noobs in the party is around 10 minutes a run (have seen significantly faster) but even if they took 1 hour to complete the 4 is that really that bad for the scale of it? its like less than 5 mins a boss if you take an hour (including running to the boss). Then VG post 137 have evidence of 20 minute runs and less with unful parties and people mentioned to be not maxed. The data I have on this is not perfect at this time. But you see you throw all this data out and just in reality the numbers don't add up. If we went off your time and cleared everything you mentioned a day you've said it takes 120 (Abyss) + 300 (CC) + 75 (AT/DF) + 45 (VG) + 90 (misc) which totals at 630 minutes or 10 hours 30 minutes. Now if you take the actual data times I have gotten taken worse case scenario 80 (Abyss) + 135 (CC1 & CC2) + 60 (AT/DF) + 40 (VG) you're looking at 315 minutes or 5 hours and 15 minutes which is exactly half of your numbers and thats me taking your averages and mid points vs the worse of what my data has shown. So your numbers just don't make sense. On 12/30/2025 at 12:55 AM, Nanami said: As for endgame bosses: none of them have ever died in 30 seconds. Pre-nerf Libra runs were around 1:20 with a fully optimized, podded party and the use of engineer potions. Sagi was 1:40–2:00. That wasn’t a problem it was refreshing to have a couple of encounters that were quick compared to everything else added to the game. I was being hyperbolic for the most part... being sarcastic but given the opportunity I bet 75% of players would jump at that. On 12/30/2025 at 12:55 AM, Nanami said: Please, listen to the entire community to find some common ground. Nerfs are not always the answer. Please, take the time to play your own game. Make a character anonymously, gear it through peer the same way we have to, and experience it firsthand. Then ask yourself after working 6–12 hours, caring for sick or disabled parents, going to school, and having only 2–3 hours left to relax with friends whether these changes are actually fun, and whether 10-minute runs per dungeon are reasonable. You say this like you know if I have or haven't done this. You also are bold in making the assumption that anyone asked for nerfs because 9/10 players would always favour buffing 40 classes rather than nerfing 3 classes. It's not something you ever want to do as you know going into the update its always going to be unpopular. But the games getting increasingly harder to balance. Bosses HP is getting out of control, forced true resistances so that bosses have a small chance to survive to use its skills more than once and it was just becoming a situation of why bother? Have you not notice that updates overall have been down this year? This isn't due to me being lazy its solely down to everything I come up with and design being second guessed because well the same 3 classes will just stomp it so we gotta punish all melee dps to slow it down. Ohh now the same handful of range dps classes come in so we gotta now prevent pierce damage too all the while someones afking on a class not using any class skills often using a weapon that doesn't even fit the class to stack another debuff so that people such as yourself can roll the boss 30 seconds faster because the HP is too high. The games balance was way off and without adding insane buffs to classes to make them equally as broken. Yeh you might not care for some bizzare reason maybe you like beserker executioner idk. But everyone who I manage to speak to who quits the game, people I see who post online about why they choose other games over ours there is 2 main gripes. 1. People don't let them in parties. 2. People don't feel like they have the option to play what they want. In a game with 65 classes currently, thats pretty poor if only around 10% of the roster is even a viable choice. One thing that screams success to me right now is I have several people from different walks of life who are contacting me about this update with their feedback and videos. Most parties are different between groups of people and even within the same video the classes are often changing depending on the dungeon or even the boss. Before people doing bosses like Spike with huge basic attack reduction and true resistance to pdps with pdps classes. The only reason people started using RDPS from my perspective was because AT/DF where so negative towards melee dps. On 12/30/2025 at 12:55 AM, Nanami said: I would like to openly acknowledge this and apologize for any instances where I came across as rude, as that was never my intention. I’m fed up with the constant and exhausting hostility within the EE community. Personal dislike or past disagreements do not justify the behavior we’ve seen by players and staff alike. I’ve said before that I disagreed strongly with some patch decisions, and I acknowledge how that came across. But aside from forum posts and criticism, I’ve never done anything to deserve snarky attitudes or mean-spirited responses toward me, my friends, or other people who are simply trying to provide our feedback. We’re all adults. Instead of dismissing concerns, ignoring suggestions, and attacking each other, we should be having productive discussions aimed at fixing problems many players are clearly experiencing. Why does it always have to escalate to this point? I’ve disbanded my own guild town, as well as another that was largely mine. I then re-leveled STARDUST, PENGUIN, and LOLLIPOP. Those were my choices, and I’ve long since made peace with them. While yes maybe I am a bit rude at times I'm also tired. You only have to look at your past post on the forums to see why I and other members of the community may have a bit of an attitude towards you and your friends (as your friends also just tend to be a vehicle of your opinion whether you tell them directly or not they basically echo, ive even been sent the same file from your friends in the past that you have send me with suggestions with nothing changed). We can quite happily have a productive discussion but you only have to take a look at your original post and my first response to see why there hasn't already been a discussion. You may not think it but you come across once again like every other patch feedback as passive agressive and dismissive of anything I've had to say about why and just say put it back. No ohh this that or the other needs to be adjusted, no you had this intention but this is holding the patch back. Just put it back. On 12/30/2025 at 12:55 AM, Nanami said: For some of us, the forums are the only way to reach you. You aren’t in the VGN Discord, and not everyone has you added. If you ever want to talk things out, you know where to find me. You’re welcome to add me so we can actually discuss things and work through whatever resentment exists. I'm not on the discord because I don't need people spamming me every five minutes when they want a character password reset or if someone said something mean in game to them. We have proper channels for this sort of thing and people choose the easy option everytime of asking the GM whos there. I have several voices from the community who can communicate with me and echo the voices of there guild members / friends or just other random players who say something in peer if they feel appropriate. I hand pick these people because I know for the most part they wont badger me all day with trivial stuff so I can get on with my IRL work or EE work. If I want to talk with the community I will login and do so within the game chat, which ive done several times since the patch launch (usually around maintenance times, Patch 136 I was online pretty much all day after its release gathering any reports of issues or feedback and many of those where made in Patch 137). You where one of these people but you decided to delete and block me because you didn't like my response to you on the forums. The door isn't closed its just you decided to close it. While I may have a somewhat negative opinion on you based on your actions over the last few years I try to keep a neutral opinion the best I can as even though I think a lot of your suggestions come the wrong place I know you only want whats best so I know they're not made out of negativity. On 12/30/2025 at 12:55 AM, Nanami said: This isn’t the “evidence-based analysis” you asked for, so whether you consider it is up to you. You may close the thread if this isn’t the feedback you were looking for. While its not I will let it stay but I would like to end this off topic conversation now. Quote
hiersen Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 Another feedback, though it might not be ONLY a problem from this patch, but can we actually have a note when a boss crowd control skill ignore immunities? Just did Jaxon for the first time with friends, and let's say, it was annoying to expect holy sage fear immunity aura to actually help us on it, only to discover it didn't do anything. Unless it isn't wanted for it to bypass sage immunity, and on that case I've nothing to say, and will just wait for a fix. That being said, just a little note would be appreciated for those of us that read the boss skills, so we can prepare accordingly. (also, a 10s fear on a 15s cooldown is criminal) Also, is class drop really working? We did 3 runs using class drop on 130T, and out of 9 bosses done with class drop, we got 2 weapons, one of which wasn't even one concerned by said class drops. So maybe make the bonus of drop higher, or maybe guaranteed? Quote
Psion's Booper Posted January 4 Report Posted January 4 Alright, my last post was a bit of a troll. I'll post actual feedback thus far according to the patches. SO. . . . Thank you for your hard work. No, seriously. Even if some aspects feel less tested than the others, the entire patch, to me, is still very nice. Especially after you've rescaled some enemies in 137. Despite my usual gripes about most patches that you (Jordan) push out, I really do applaud you for the work you've put in this one. I, like other players, do kind of dislike the time needed to be spent in PvE but overall, I've grown to understand that MMORPGs pretty much always follow this format for dungeon running—especially now. HOWEVER, despite my (admittedly, overreactive) attitude, I really have done some test-running in Abyss / ATDF (Not so much CC or VG. I don't particularly enjoy these content types) and the timing doesn't seem *terrible*. The general runs for my runs have been this: AT/DF - About 10-ish minutes per run, given that we do not Wipe / succumb to boss mechs. DEEP ABYSS - 5~7 Minutes PER run - UNLESS Spike's ass is involved ... then Spike can rank it up to about 7-9 minutes. - NOTE: The additional time tends to vary based on if your main DPS gets cc'd (Spike does it A LOT. Holy hell.) / what their rotation is / how long it takes for someone to NPC / etc. -> If your players are afk or aren't rotating their skills correctly, then that is, indeed, a skill issue. Regular Abyss - 3~6 Minutes. It tends to vary based on the boss, but it generally is around this time unless something happens like a wipe (Healers can die! Fox can fox! It happens. Get over it, I guess. Or don't die. *shrug*) CC1 - Most CC bosses in this gearing arc takes about 3-10 minutes on AVERAGE. -> Less mechanic intensive bosses like Libra, Sagittarius, and Leo are usually on the lesser end of the time spectrum. CC2 - I did not really enjoy playing this content, and the party I did try with kinda failed. It still feels like some of this content is a bit over-tuned for me (like they do a lot of dmg, even for me lmao). So I won't really put a grade here. (Though people I have asked either said it's not doable or bosses like Taurus can take about 10 minutes, give or take.) VG - I did not like this dungeon pre-patch. I do not like this dungeon post-patch. I genuinely do feel like this dungeon takes unnecessarily long, but because it *technically* is not a DAILY dungeon, then whatever. (Why is it 8-10 players for ST-Based gems anyway??? 😭) NOTE(1): I HAVE RUN WITH MULTIPLE PARTIES, PARTIES OF WHICH ONLY ONE MEMBER IS UNDERGEARED (The Paladin / NPC / etc). I DO NOT recommend doing content with 2-3 under-geared people due to time constraints. HOWEVER, if your other two DPS are good, then go ahead. It may take a few extra minutes, depending on several pre-disclosed factor(s) listed above. Note(2): I will have to be one of those people that has to say: I don't fully enjoy the Targeted Resist System. I do think it's "OK", but because of it, some classes will inevitably shine brighter than others because of their innate -RES Shred. I think having SOME accessory sets or pieces should have a little Resistance Shred for the entire party just so the paladin isn't just there to ..be there. -> Sets that are beginner friendly like: The Robust Set, Temple Knight, or other fame-related sets should definitely give a debuff team-wide. EVEN if it is not a lot. (We could easily change the values from like 10% to 5 % so it's more 'Nice to Have' rather than 'Unga Bunga, kill the boss as fast as we can'.) I only say this because it will still give some people incentive to get pieces and or fame that can still be beneficial to the party. Trainer mains have literally gone to Paladin mains. That part hasn't really changed. Debuffers are still debuffers, but hey. Just a suggestion. SO FAR, I really do like how the content is engineered. I have been able to remain near TOP DPS with classes like Holy Blade, Gravity Manipulator, Executioner (even in it's weakened state!), Annihilator (Surprisingly really well built dps!), Asura, and a few more. The ability to match MDPS with even PDPS classes because of class kits / dmg scaling is actually very refreshing to see. And, it has gotten even me (An Aven Main 90% of the time) to leave my spot to try things out. Thank you for this. I hated having so many classes built and not being able to use them! My Gripes about these patches thus far: Patch Notes Where?: - Although I do love playing the game of Discovery at times when on MMOs, I really disliked needing to go through each and every kit to find out what is useless and what is useful. I really wish there were extended patch notes of every class change / racial change / etc, because I do have records of my own that I would've liked to have a copy/paste of. It was a tad tedious needing to go through every little thing to find out what changed, but resetting KP does give me that initiative. CC2: - I've noticed a lot of people complaining about CC2, and I am honestly one of them too. The main reason why I don't particularly enjoy CC2 is because some of these bosses really do a LOT of damage (Cancer, for example) and I don't think they ...should? At least not this much. Maybe it's a skill issue on my part, but I don't find CC2 fun virtually at all. Fox Sanctuary: - Pleaseeeeee. This abyss, for me, is somewhat the only outlier (Outside of Stygian Core) that stands out to me. I'm very glad you decided not to give Sakuya an auto-debuffer like how we had in 95T (Pharoh's Curse my BEHATEDDDD), but I really do feel like this boss's debuffer removal passive should be tweaked. Because of the nature of how debuffs are pretty much applied by self now, I feel like this: "Removes 10 Random Debuffs every 8 seconds" thing is unnecessarily annoying. -> Can we push it to every 15 seconds, maybe? Or have Sakuya remove less debuffs?? -> This boss is ...admittedly, incredibly annoying. To me. To a LOT of people. The fox always has a tendency to remove CC even when you wait at 1 second before its' shockwave. - I understand that your intention was to make it a bit mechanic-based, but there are multiple classes that can still mess with the boss and it's even more fun with class versatility. -> Sometimes the tank dies because of the wipe mechanic and then it can spiral out of control because aggro is lost, etc etc.. It happens sometimes even to pro/top parties! Please, let's just ..look at fox maybe a little? 👉👈 Adjudicator KP: - You sneaky RAT. (You're a Zumi, Jordan, relax.) I don't see how putting more DMG to Holy Dragon Strike helps much, but I do think adding a 0.5% or 1% DMG TAKEN (Stacks 5 / 3 times?) additional debuff would be ok? I really enjoyed the usability of it pre-patch. Healers are using HS / TM / Adju either way because they can. I haven't seen much party difference in this regard. But the 20% DMG amp for a skill that already doesn't do much is kinda .... I don't know. Useless? 😭 Gravity Mage: - I feel like Imbalanced Gravity should have a slightly less cooldown (25 seconds?). The uptime is pretty annoying to me, considering classes like Holy Blade can essentially have its -RES stacked permanently UNLESS the boss has moving mechanics. Lowering the cooldown even by a little could help with the slight clunky nature of this class's own personal shred. -> I feel like it would be nice if the skill Black Hole was a point and click AOE that draws all targets within it to the center of the skill aoe circle. Naturally, it should NOT work on bosses and SHOULD have a timed immunity for it. This is more of a suggestion than anything for this particular class because no one really uses this skill and it would give it a little utility. It also does make the skill name "Black Hole" actually make sense. (It could be nice for instances like Fox Abyss, Stygian Core Abyss for example!) Bring back old Darkness Blade or im calling the police. I MEAN IT!!!! I do sincerely have my best wishes for this patch and its development in the future-coming patches. I really do. Out of ALL of the patches I've been apart of over the course of 5 years—THIS one to me has such an insanely big impact. People literally crying over new players not being able to play this/that is to be expected. Personally? I literally don't care. New players about 72% of the time are not geared to play main dps roles—which is why we have classes like Shielder/Paladin (which what use to be trainer..) There's also been increased flexibility with Accessory / Trophy sets too, and I like that aspect. I've been in rainbow comps, normal static comps, and mixed comps. Everything, even now, is still not-so clear cut, and that's OK. I may add to the list above about my gripes, but I do think this is *about* all I have to 'complain' about. Overall? W patch. I feel like the pros of this patch outweigh the hefty cons. I think the majority of our issue right now is finding people for content. I see it EVERY day "Lf1m LF1M, LF2M, LFLFLFLF". -> I wish that we had content that would Scale according to how many people were going (with 3 being the minimal amount their stats scale for party content). However, I can see this causing 'clique' type parties to do their own thing—but, let's be real: They were going to do this anyway. Thank you for listening to me rant. I hope some of this info provides insight on how to go forward with future patchwork. P.S: People who disagree with me, please do not come to my dms complaining. I don't care. He said he was NOT reverting the patch, and I don't really think he should either. There's no point in me complaining about the same shit y'all are ok 😭 thanks. 4 Quote
VGN GM Jordan Posted January 5 VGN GM Report Posted January 5 On 1/3/2026 at 6:15 AM, hiersen said: Another feedback, though it might not be ONLY a problem from this patch, but can we actually have a note when a boss crowd control skill ignore immunities? Just did Jaxon for the first time with friends, and let's say, it was annoying to expect holy sage fear immunity aura to actually help us on it, only to discover it didn't do anything. Unless it isn't wanted for it to bypass sage immunity, and on that case I've nothing to say, and will just wait for a fix. That being said, just a little note would be appreciated for those of us that read the boss skills, so we can prepare accordingly. (also, a 10s fear on a 15s cooldown is criminal) Also, is class drop really working? We did 3 runs using class drop on 130T, and out of 9 bosses done with class drop, we got 2 weapons, one of which wasn't even one concerned by said class drops. So maybe make the bonus of drop higher, or maybe guaranteed? Most bosses that are suppose to be somewhat mechanically challenging usually has CC that bypasses immunity unless its considerably made unfair to sort of force some sort of immunity class to be played. In Jaxon's case for example you would look at the range of the ability and think the counter play is easy, just stay far from the boss since most ranged spells and ranged weapons have a distance that is longer than the range of the spell. I can maybe add to future bosses but I'm not sure about going back over all the bosses because there is plenty of none custom bosses that do this too. It should be working but I'll take another luck. Remember class drops aren't suppose to guarantee a drop just increase the chances (It's also classed as its own drop so the break drop and the class drop can drop at the same time). On 1/4/2026 at 1:12 AM, Psion's Booper said: Thank you for the positive feedback, it's always appreciated. On 1/4/2026 at 1:12 AM, Psion's Booper said: Patch Notes Where?: CC2: Fox Sanctuary: Adjudicator KP: Gravity Mage: Well patch notes take me quite a while to write and I mean while I have a bunch of notes of changes because basically everything change and was recoded / fixed (there was so many bugs with the old classes) / adjusted that pretty much every class had a mini rework while several classes had complete kit changes. So it would have kinda been a case of just posting every class and every skill side by side which would have taken me far too long. Now in the past I would have done this, but every single time I login after spending hours / days writing the patch notes most people are just like what happened here, whats this, why is this no longer like this and I just feel like why bother? If its a direct change this to this then sure but when its on such a scale just better to say well the information is available in game so just look at it. Yeh maybe Holy Skills would have been worth putting on and the glyphs since those aren't readily available for everyone. -- I will be making some adjustments to CC2 so thanks for the feedback. This content is suppose to be hard so yeh I might make some adjustments that effect the damage the mechanics would mostly be the same. -- I'll look into fox sanctuary. I was informed however that a lot of peoples gripes comes down to trying to cheese the mechanic and the removal counters this cheese. -- I've tried my best to cap any sort of appropriate DMG Taken debuffs in game as that was actually done before the full rework as this was the main reason trainer became how it is. Right now Holy Dragon Strike lowers resistances while the Holy Skill gives DMG Taken which makes the pair of skills balance. So there will not be any adjustments at this time towards adjudicator. -- Imbalanced can look into it. Black Hole would likely be a be a no but I might look into it still. Just mainly because not only bosses but also boss mechanics would also need checking out for several reasons plus PvP would have to be disabled too since skills that move people to positions usually cause ways to trap people (👀 Zumi Yellow Racial). On 1/4/2026 at 1:12 AM, Psion's Booper said: -> I wish that we had content that would Scale according to how many people were going (with 3 being the minimal amount their stats scale for party content). However, I can see this causing 'clique' type parties to do their own thing—but, let's be real: They were going to do this anyway. I wish I could do this but with how the game is made it might create too much overhead to the dungeon. I originally wanted to do this with expedition mainly because it was suppose to be a guild limited dungeon but due to the complications it was just easier in the long run to keep it as a 25 man. Maybe in future I would look into this but I do think you might end up with people like putting too much value and if your damage doesn't meet the threshold its better not to take someone that needs the help. 1 Quote
Psion's Booper Posted January 5 Report Posted January 5 3 hours ago, Jordan said: I will be making some adjustments to CC2 so thanks for the feedback. This content is suppose to be hard so yeh I might make some adjustments that effect the damage the mechanics would mostly be the same. -> Mechanic wise I think CC2 is OK. I actually do not have much problem with the mechanics overall. I think Primarily it is the damage of some of these bosses. Like, I thought CC1 hit hard when it came out, but CC2 to me is insane—as both a healer and a DPS with pretty high resistances. Deaths increase time purely from a DPS standpoint, especially ramping DPS. And wiping? Whew.. Note: I have yet to actually fight Capricorn. I don't know if I will. 😭 But, I have done all of the others.. 3 hours ago, Jordan said: I've tried my best to cap any sort of appropriate DMG Taken debuffs in game as that was actually done before the full rework as this was the main reason trainer became how it is. Right now Holy Dragon Strike lowers resistances while the Holy Skill gives DMG Taken which makes the pair of skills balance. So there will not be any adjustments at this time towards adjudicator. -> I figured you'd probably say this, yeah. Truth be told I'm still learning some classes give extra DMG Dealt—as is such with this patch—but I appreciate the response. Adju's still gonna be goated, even without the KP.. 3 hours ago, Jordan said: Imbalanced can look into it. Black Hole would likely be a be a no but I might look into it still. Just mainly because not only bosses but also boss mechanics would also need checking out for several reasons plus PvP would have to be disabled too since skills that move people to positions usually cause ways to trap people (👀 Zumi Yellow Racial). -> Thanks for being willing to look into it! I really do like GM in its current state other than this. -> I can see Black Hole the black hole being an issue in PvP, yeah. The repositioning skill was only really an idea for PvE in my head because I genuinely do not do PvP in eden, ha. It can have a long cooldown, maybe! Or even a higher stack count for usage (or maybe needs Out of Phase to work, something situational? Dunno.) I just thought it'd be neat because technically magician awaken had orbs that pulled you into places similar to how I imagine the skill could work. (Only one pull though in this instance, unlike how it spam pulls you in the dungeon..) 3 hours ago, Jordan said: I wish I could do this but with how the game is made it might create too much overhead to the dungeon. I originally wanted to do this with expedition mainly because it was suppose to be a guild limited dungeon but due to the complications it was just easier in the long run to keep it as a 25 man. Maybe in future I would look into this but I do think you might end up with people like putting too much value and if your damage doesn't meet the threshold its better not to take someone that needs the help. -> This is something I was afraid of. 'Gear Score' has always been a bit of an issue with MMOs that have it, so I'd probably steer clear of it. (Gatekeeping, as you mentioned, can be an issue.) But, I also do want people to be able to do content, but sometimes looking for 1-2 hours for 1-2 people for a dungeon really does suck for folks. My main thought process was for things to scale based on how many people are present to help reduce wait times / search times. 3 hours ago, Jordan said: Well patch notes take me quite a while to write . . . Okay, I can agree with this. I'm sometimes guilty as charged for not reading. 😭 ---- Overall, thank you for the response in kind. If I have any more feedback I will likely post it here, or in the suggestion thread as followed. Quote
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