Jordan

Normal Class TW Changes

Poll Name read the post  

66 members have voted

  1. 1. Read the post for more information on the choices

    • Major changes to all classes
      25
    • Major changes to weaker classes
      18
    • Minor changes to all classes.
      6
    • Minor changes to weaker classes.
      7
    • Change nothing
      10


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All these people in this forum dont even play in parties Jordan, they are solo people.Just so we are clear.

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1 hour ago, Kouen said:

All these people in this forum dont even play in parties Jordan, they are solo people.Just so we are clear.

I know who does and who doesn't play in parties I also know what is stupid and what isn't. You don't have to tell me but thanks for the concern xD. I take most of what people say with a grain of salt and usually I'm right with what I decide even though most don't think that way.

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20 hours ago, Kouen said:

All these people in this forum dont even play in parties Jordan, they are solo people.Just so we are clear.

You would be more helpful by exposing your opinion about this tw instead of trying to downgrade suggestions of people that don't play in the same way as you play.

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The eden already reached its limit of base content, Jordan managed to overcome Aeria Games with all classes Awakens, even with the game becoming very repetitive: every new patch people run to equip themselves to go pvp, in the next patch is the same thing, became a eternal cycle, comes to a point where there is no longer where to put status for classes, the power of the classes begins to get extremely excessive, classes like GM that are already strong for having an extreme burst become stronger still, other classes weak begin to become strong too, what I mean by this is that it all comes at a certain time that everything turns into a glass cannons festival Everyone kills everyone with 1-hit or 2 no chance of you being able to think of an alternative escape, tanker classes like GK which simply can not die if they are not focused by 5 or more people at the same time, i don't have much to propose to change the game since i am away for a long time, but it would be good to decrease the base damage of the awaken classes, how would this affect the game? would create a fairer and more fun pvp, you could reduce the resistances of the gems and trophies of the game, so there would be so much reason for everyone to go around giving cap on all the resistances, it would be something more like in the cap 70-75 40- 50 of resistance would already be good, decrease healing of healers so they will have to think about focusing or tankyness or healing, can not have much of the 2 at the same time, '' soraka can not heal the entire team and tank as a Thresh at the same time.'' just a exemple. 

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So this is basically Jordan's version of "pick my poison" on how much he has to work xDD

But a normal class rebalance would be nice too~ especially if it could include racial skill rebalances, some skills are just too good and others are just too "why does this skill even exist"

 

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2 hours ago, Alouette said:

So this is basically Jordan's version of "pick my poison" on how much he has to work xDD

But a normal class rebalance would be nice too~ especially if it could include racial skill rebalances, some skills are just too good and others are just too "why does this skill even exist"

 

Considering he completely ignored the racial skill rebalance topic, I don't see that being rebalanced. It sucks because EE is a game about building, customization and free class change, yet you lose cc skills permanently if you don't choose certain races at the beginning of the game. Said skills are crucial for some classes, to the point where they can be 2 times more powerful if you pick the correct race.

One day I invited someone that never played EE to this game (he was looking for a game with good pvp), and while I was helping him with character creation choices he said he wanted to main samurai, so I said pick the frog because it gets a 5 sec stun , he said something like "what If I don't want to play as a damn frog?". So yeah that sumarizes how dumb is this permanent choice.

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1 hour ago, Noka said:

Considering he completely ignored the racial skill rebalance topic, I don't see that being rebalanced. It sucks because EE is a game about building, customization and free class change, yet you lose cc skills permanently if you don't choose certain races at the beginning of the game. Said skills are crucial for some classes, to the point where they can be 2 times more powerful if you pick the correct race.

One day I invited someone that never played EE to this game (he was looking for a game with good pvp), and while I was helping him with character creation choices he said he wanted to main samurai, so I said pick the frog because it gets a 5 sec stun , he said something like "what If I don't want to play as a damn frog?". So yeah that sumarizes how dumb is this permanent choice.

I didn't mean to ignore a topic (I have just looked for it and saw it now). Racials are NOT that important to make or break your experience with the game and people shouldn't feel forced to make a character of a specific race just to be on par with everyone else, If this was the case halfkins would be extinct as aside from regular Illusionist and maybe Luminary halfkins are absolute garbage in the racial department. Yet that's not the case, there is a lot of halfkin's in the server (one of the more dominant races) and its not like the people playing them feel completely screwed over by it. But I personally am not going to be that guy who has to tell someone who picked Zumi because it excels in racials skills/passives that now they now have to remake their character because now human has the best (Cause lets face it, nothing will ever truly be even unless its an exact copy and some people will always want to have every little inch of advantage they can gain and I'm not just going to remove a feature that makes the races have uniqueness).

I do; however, plan to maybe tweak some of the shit ones to be a bit more useful but its not on a priority list because like I said it doesn't make or break the game currently and there's more important things that need to be done like making normal class TW's more enjoyable or new content so people have things to do again. Unless the majority of the community feel different on the matter then this is all I have to say about it.

 

As for this post, I am waiting on something from BaSH before I start changing the normal classes, failing that I'll likely be doing some changes for the next week maintenance unless anything more pressing comes along. I'm also debating swapping the Guardians TW map in normal class TW to something a little smaller (Most likely a new map exclusive to the mode). As for PvE likely will aim for a mid July patch with some new PvE content; however, if something else goes to plan then that can throw a spanner in the works but more info will come on that when we get there.

 

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Ofcourse, I didn't cared about races when creating my char either, however he wanted to main samurai and from personal experience its not a good class in pvp, because its cc's are too short to finish combos in time, while a frog blademaster (or samurai in normal tw) gets +5 seconds to perform combos, since stun, knockdown and frog racial all stack together. Class viability should not depend on a permanent choice that you do at character creation... lets say you buff human's wind armor to deal 5% slash DoT, it becomes a good dps skill against tanks but it would not change the meta or make a class viable. That's how the racial skills should be in my opinion.

Also, halfkins are not garbage in the racial department. They have a very powerful and underrated 6 second stun with green class, plus they have the best enginer passive (+30% eva) and a very good one for inquisitor (+10% dmg). Almost all green class can use that cc to their advantage. Nothing special on the other 4 class branches, but atleast they are unmatched in one.

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11 minutes ago, Noka said:

Ofcourse, I didn't cared about races when creating my char either, however he wanted to main samurai and from personal experience its not a good class in pvp, because its cc's are too short to finish combos in time, while a frog blademaster (or samurai in normal tw) gets +5 seconds to perform combos, since stun, knockdown and frog racial all stack together. Class viability should not depend on a permanent choice that you do at character creation... lets say you buff human's wind armor to deal 5% slash DoT, it becomes a good dps skill against tanks but it would not change the meta or make a class viable. That's how the racial skills should be in my opinion.

Also, halfkins are not garbage in the racial department. They have a very powerful and underrated 6 second stun with green class, plus they have the best enginer passive (+30% eva) and a very good one for inquisitor (+10% dmg). Almost all green class can use that cc to their advantage. Nothing special on the other 4 class branches, but atleast they are unmatched in one.

Those are possible changes in future because if anything just makes them usable and not better.

And I'd much rather Zumi/Human racial skills on green classes, same with engineer as -DMG trumps as it has no cap. Inquisitor halfkin falls into the same category as halfkin illu, yeh the 10% dmg is nice but I'd much rather be a human and have -10% dmg taken.

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Balancing Eden Eternal is extremely difficult and requires a lot of patience and disposition (not only to make the changes, but to question those changes). Imo, subjects should be adressed from bottom to top. We can ask you to "balance normal classes", but what precisely do we mean by that? Take the Illusionist damage for example. It takes 2 to 3 deadly icicle to kill someone. That's insane. Sum that up with the fact that this class can make itself invisible, cc whoever's bugging it and focus on one opponent at a time, and boom... you have a "must play" class. 

Absolutely not fair at all.

Imo, if "deadly icicle" always triple-hit someone, make it double-hit instead and run some tests to see if the "nerf" won't make the class unplayable. 

 

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48 minutes ago, Fenril said:

Imo, if "deadly icicle" always triple-hit someone, make it double-hit instead and run some tests to see if the "nerf" won't make the class unplayable. 

 

That's what they did with Equilibrian, and nowadays it's a good class. Only the "OTP" guys that only spam the broken class of the moment stopped playing it, but it's still viable and useful.

+1 to this suggestion.

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6 hours ago, Reikan said:

That's what they did with Equilibrian, and nowadays it's a good class. Only the "OTP" guys that only spam the broken class of the moment stopped playing it, but it's still viable and useful.

+1 to this suggestion.

There are so many ways to balance a class without destroying its gameplay, this is a good way, it could also decrease your triple hit, by switching 100-50-25 to 100-25-15% increase the invisibility cooldawn to 50 seconds, so you could stay 30 seconds invisible (or 35 depending on the build) and 20 seconds out of invisibility, thus creating an opening point for your enemy to attack you.

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On 6/24/2018 at 4:47 PM, Fenril said:

Balancing Eden Eternal is extremely difficult and requires a lot of patience and disposition (not only to make the changes, but to question those changes). Imo, subjects should be adressed from bottom to top. We can ask you to "balance normal classes", but what precisely do we mean by that? Take the Illusionist damage for example. It takes 2 to 3 deadly icicle to kill someone. That's insane. Sum that up with the fact that this class can make itself invisible, cc whoever's bugging it and focus on one opponent at a time, and boom... you have a "must play" class. 

Absolutely not fair at all.

Imo, if "deadly icicle" always triple-hit someone, make it double-hit instead and run some tests to see if the "nerf" won't make the class unplayable. 

 

I honestly feel like Deadly Icicle is such an iconic skill that changing the way it works would just feel wrong, I like Nethe's suggestion better, just lower the damage rate instead of the number of hits, there are other ways the class could be made less powerfull

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8 hours ago, Alouette said:

I honestly feel like Deadly Icicle is such an iconic skill that changing the way it works would just feel wrong, I like Nethe's suggestion better, just lower the damage rate instead of the number of hits, there are other ways the class could be made less powerfull

This was my exact problem changing things ruined the whole purpose of the normal class TW's.

 

I have some semi decent news on this topic, although it wont be this upcoming patch. I have an idea and plans how to rebalance this correctly so maybe around September depending on how busy my life gets we should be able to get it back.

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17 hours ago, Alouette said:

I honestly feel like Deadly Icicle is such an iconic skill that changing the way it works would just feel wrong, I like Nethe's suggestion better, just lower the damage rate instead of the number of hits, there are other ways the class could be made less powerfull

Yes, it is indeed an iconic skill, however, I realized, a few months ago, that many Eden players, specially the veterans, are really against changes at all. I do remember when Jordan changed Glacier Knight. A lot of people, including me, didn't like it. I had my reasons and, to this day, I still think Glacier Knight should be a soft-cc-oriented-class-with-that-freezing-debuff-some-monsters-have-in-dl (hahaha) and not exactly one of the best healers in the game with a anti-cc skill. Amongst the tanks, we already have Paladin, which is a half-dps, half-healer class. Nowadays, people love this class. 

Basically, in the end, we'll get back to "class identity" subject. Some classes, such as Kage and Rakshasa, have no identity. Imo, Kage should be a "Support-Ninja". Throw poison kunais that would deal a % of his "m-atk" as damage, place traps in the ground that would greatly slow whoever steps upon them, etc. Rakshasa is, to this point, a "fire p-atk mage". Without his enhanced area buff, he simply cannot do anything. He'd have to be in the middle of an entire full raid party to try to cause some damage, and to really cause some damage, he needs stacks of Rakshasa-something. So, I'd turn him into a magical class as well. Make him a fire-mage and enhancing his damage to a target everytime he hits that same target with his spells (to a cap, of course, otherwise we would see tanky Rakshasas with a lot of damage, 'cause all he'd need is time). 

Anyway... not going to drift away from the subject for much longer, as this is a subject that tends to irritate and discourage Jordan, but I guess you get my point now. 

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