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GodOfLogic

PvP Crowd Control(CC) Rework

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I first want to start off by stating that I do think CCs should be a part of PvP as an effective tool. However, what I have been seeing lately and what I have been experiencing is that PvP is now CC reliant. Stun, Knock up, Knock down, Fear, Mundane, Conjurer's Worm Transformation, Elegant Dance's Dance of the White Dove that makes you dance are some of the CCs that are utilize by a skill from a certain class. These are just from skills, I'm not including the ones that proc'ed by Trophies and I may be actually missing some CCs that are Class Skill based. Numerous times these past few weeks I been CCed for at least 30 seconds while an opponent team cycle through all the available CCs. I have been even CCed for over a minute several times and could have been longer if I did not die... I am 100% positive others have shared this experienced. It is to the point where you can continuously get CCed locked if timed right. What is quite common is to get CCed for 20 seconds and get killed to then revive and go back into battle and experience that exact same thing due immunity being up. During these 30 minute pvp match/battle, 30% of the match is just being CCed. I do not know what is the best course of action but something should be done to immunity. Either drastically increase the Immunity time where it cant be cycled through causing a continuous CC lock. Or have all CCs operate under one immunity so you can't be instantly CCed after just leaving a CC state to avoid back to back to back CCs. Like I said, I am not entirely sure what should happen but this type of pvp should not continue. Spending a good chunk of a PvP CCed is not an ideal style of PvP whatsoever. 

Thank you for your time.

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We have alot of "Maid" to clear ours debuf, maybe you will need to look for any support like:

Glacier knight remove 10 debuff

HolySage remove 8 debuf

Sage skill Tru Grit: remove all party member negative status(can be used on mimic)

...

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The thing about CC is: It needs a rework, but an entire rework regarding CC's is "too much work" according to Jordan and he doesn't want to do it (that was said in another topic which was closed).

Currently, we have ways to "counter" it, but it turns out to be a bad mechanic: You either die CC-locked forever, or all the CC thrown is useless because you have 3~4 supports constantly clearing debuffs. It's not a reliable mechanic and you can't really predict CC mechanics in this meta.

Also, considering you want a rework, i'd recommend adding a possible solution. If it's hard to the staff to listen to stuff they literally need to Ctrl+C, imagine them having to think about everything. Not gonna happen.

[My Suggestion]

Nerf all the cleansing skills to cleanse 2 debuffs at max. Even the high CD ones.

Re-code skills: Instead of the skill giving its own debuff, it should apply an existing debuff (or stacks of this debuff) from the game that interacts equally for all the classes. Example:

Slow: Decreases -10% Move SPD, stackable 10 times.

Stun: Target is unable to perform any actions for 1 second, stackable 6 times.

Re-code enchantments: Higher level enchantments should erase lower level ones, instead of stacking

Priority: Add a line to all accessories and trophies with a code regarding "Less priority". Add a code to cleansing skills that differ "High priority" (Class CCs) and "Less Priority" (Item debuffs), so every time a cleansing skill is used, it will search for High priority before cleansing a trash item debuff.

[Conclusion]

With my suggestion, CC's would be reliable, and supports would not be there just to spam purifying stuff, but instead, for the kit of their classes. We would see more support variety (Hello Life Worshipper), we would see less people dying because they took literally 40 debuffs at a time and all the supports weren't able to clear all that. Supports would be able to do their job, while CC'ers would have to be smart instead of just throwing everything they have.

Nowadays, it's frustrating for every side: No one can truly do their jobs, you need a lot of players to fill the CC/Cleansing roles because you need SPAM, not player skill.

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Sorry I missed this post until now.

 

Increasing the Immunity isn't an option without source access as the game handles CC immunities automatically (excluding dance immunity, worm immunity and knock-up immunity) as they're not real immunities they're fake immunities in the games eyes. The other problem that comes with increasing immunity times is that it kinda makes smaller fights feel very impossible, if you put in arena's perspective and your fighting a healer, right now the only way to kill a good healer is by cc locking them and even then its hard to accomplish. The same can be said for less populated GvG's and TW's where its not groups and groups of people firing CC at you. It's kinda hard to balance correctly because theirs 61 possible classes to play all with different duration's of CC, the best possible solution I could suggest is running classes with high clense values like glacier knight and holy sage, combined with using things that prevent CC entirely like the Holy Sage Aura's.

 

On 7/23/2018 at 8:45 AM, Reikan said:

Also, considering you want a rework, i'd recommend adding a possible solution. If it's hard to the staff to listen to stuff they literally need to Ctrl+C, imagine them having to think about everything. Not gonna happen.

We need to copy what?

 

On 7/23/2018 at 8:45 AM, Reikan said:

Re-code skills: Instead of the skill giving its own debuff, it should apply an existing debuff (or stacks of this debuff) from the game that interacts equally for all the classes. Example:

Slow: Decreases -10% Move SPD, stackable 10 times.

Stun: Target is unable to perform any actions for 1 second, stackable 6 times.

Re-code enchantments: Higher level enchantments should erase lower level ones, instead of stacking

Clearly you didn't read everything I said? You cannot make a stackable debuff like this as skill level will affect the stack, if a player with a level 100 skill applies a stack then people with a level 99 or lower skill WILL NOT BE ABLE TO APPLY A STACK UNTIL THE LEVEL 100 PLAYERS DEBUFF HAS FADED as that is how skills are HARD CODED into the game and this cannot be changed without source access and even if it could be changed it would provide very random results with other debuffs such as stacking debuffs from other classes. Like a player who spends time stacking - xxx attack speed debuff, then a second player comes along with a lower level and lower value attack speed debuff comes along and uses the same skill. Then the lower value buff will overwrite the higher level one.

As for stun what your suggesting isn't possible cause more stacks does not equal more duration, again this is a fact of the system and something that I cannot change without SOURCE.

 

Enchantments are possible to fix but its something I'm on the fence about as ever since back when I played a common strategy for good guilds and good players where to build your party around stacking different levels to make it harder to counter your debuffs. If people can't seem to handle coordination is it right for me to come in and remove the feature from the game or is it my job to hinder the people who actually try their best to make the game simpler?

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On 7/28/2018 at 5:55 PM, Jordan said:

Increasing the Immunity isn't an option without source access as the game handles CC immunities automatically (excluding dance immunity, worm immunity and knock-up immunity) as they're not real immunities they're fake immunities in the games eyes.

Can you code fake immunities freely? if possible, you could add a post-immunity "fake immunity" with extra duration.

The other problem that comes with increasing immunity times is that it kinda makes smaller fights feel very impossible, if you put in arena's perspective and your fighting a healer, right now the only way to kill a good healer is by cc locking them and even then its hard to accomplish.

Arenas nowadays are literally dead except from the days after maintenance where guilds log alts to rank for GvG. Which is also a problem we should deal with, but that's for another topic.

The same can be said for less populated GvG's and TW's where its not groups and groups of people firing CC at you. It's kinda hard to balance correctly because theirs 61 possible classes to play all with different duration's of CC, the best possible solution I could suggest is running classes with high clense values like glacier knight and holy sage, combined with using things that prevent CC entirely like the Holy Sage Aura's.

Low population TWs/GvGs are won based on strategy/map management rather than just PvP'ing. Even so, sometimes you stumble across a bunch of Reavers and other CC-spammers and you must decide either to walk with 3 supports in every scenario, or just wait and die. Forcing people to use some class to all possible scenarios isn't something cool in a game with 61 classes, right?

We need to copy what?

Read again.

Clearly you didn't read everything I said? You cannot make a stackable debuff like this as skill level will affect the stack, if a player with a level 100 skill applies a stack then people with a level 99 or lower skill WILL NOT BE ABLE TO APPLY A STACK UNTIL THE LEVEL 100 PLAYERS DEBUFF HAS FADED as that is how skills are HARD CODED into the game and this cannot be changed without source access and even if it could be changed it would provide very random results with other debuffs such as stacking debuffs from other classes. Like a player who spends time stacking - xxx attack speed debuff, then a second player comes along with a lower level and lower value attack speed debuff comes along and uses the same skill. Then the lower value buff will overwrite the higher level one.

I read everything you say, its just that we don't really know what you can do or not.

On 7/28/2018 at 5:55 PM, Jordan said:

As for stun what your suggesting isn't possible cause more stacks does not equal more duration, again this is a fact of the system and something that I cannot change without SOURCE.

Ok.

Enchantments are possible to fix but its something I'm on the fence about as ever since back when I played a common strategy for good guilds and good players where to build your party around stacking different levels to make it harder to counter your debuffs. If people can't seem to handle coordination is it right for me to come in and remove the feature from the game or is it my job to hinder the people who actually try their best to make the game simpler?

Even you agree that we have 61 possible classes with unique debuffs, and you also agree that many people argue about some classes being unplayable. Why leaving the debuff stacking capacity to enchantments instead of removing it and encouraging people to use different classes for that task? 

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Is there any way to get this "source code" apart from contacting the developer and paying millions of dollars to buy the game rights (which is definitely not an option, jus' sayin')?

 

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4 hours ago, Fenril said:

Is there any way to get this "source code" apart from contacting the developer and paying millions of dollars to buy the game rights (which is definitely not an option, jus' sayin')?

 

There's a lot more legal complications when it comes to source and it's one thing decompiling the source but then getting their in house compiler is the next difficulty from that. Bash has been looking into alternatives to get more control but the likely matter is source will never happen. With a bit of luck there will be some more impactful changes upcoming shortly but don't think I'll have the power to change anything and everything once that comes along because it would be a work around which opens a few more doors.

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1 hour ago, 0x00000000 said:

No comments on Reikan's constructive opinions?

Not really constructive but sure.

 

1. You can't fake immunities to extend the duration as the immunity would automatically apply itself afterwards again creating an infinite loop of CC (excluding the 3 I mentioned, Knockup, Worm and Dance).

2. It was merely an example of smaller scale fights.

3. There's lots of options to counter CC, I was just giving an example of one way to deal with it. There is also nothing wrong with running 3 supports, they're in the game for a reason, you have 10 slots in a party, choose what ever makes you win is the point in having organized guild PvP, not my job to manage that for you.

4. Ctrl+C = Copy? Either I don't understand what your trying to say or you're missing part of the sentance.

5. I have already tried to make it a bit more clear with what I can and can't do in Fenril's post and I'd be happy for people to ask, but pushing the same thing I've already stated isn't possible isn't going to suddenly make it more possible. Like I said in my other reply the possibilities will soon be opened wider and my time is freeing up to get some good work into Eden but Patience is needed as I'm waiting on Bash to help me get somethings done. So you can expect some bigger changes coming soon along with me revamping normal classes for the patch after next with some bigger changes to make it more balanced without just running around nerfing classes (as I want to keep the core of normal classes how it is and maybe put some buffs to the un-played classes).

6. I'll consider doing some changes that might avoid this being as viable but right now in this moment it stays.

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23 hours ago, Jordan said:

Not really constructive but sure.

 

1. You can't fake immunities to extend the duration as the immunity would automatically apply itself afterwards again creating an infinite loop of CC (excluding the 3 I mentioned, Knockup, Worm and Dance).

2. It was merely an example of smaller scale fights.

3. There's lots of options to counter CC, I was just giving an example of one way to deal with it. There is also nothing wrong with running 3 supports, they're in the game for a reason, you have 10 slots in a party, choose what ever makes you win is the point in having organized guild PvP, not my job to manage that for you.

4. Ctrl+C = Copy? Either I don't understand what your trying to say or you're missing part of the sentance.

5. I have already tried to make it a bit more clear with what I can and can't do in Fenril's post and I'd be happy for people to ask, but pushing the same thing I've already stated isn't possible isn't going to suddenly make it more possible. Like I said in my other reply the possibilities will soon be opened wider and my time is freeing up to get some good work into Eden but Patience is needed as I'm waiting on Bash to help me get somethings done. So you can expect some bigger changes coming soon along with me revamping normal classes for the patch after next with some bigger changes to make it more balanced without just running around nerfing classes (as I want to keep the core of normal classes how it is and maybe put some buffs to the un-played classes).

6. I'll consider doing some changes that might avoid this being as viable but right now in this moment it stays.

"Not really constructive"

I'm giving my opinions and suggestions to make the game better. It wouldn't be constructive if it was pointless complaints about the changes made on Vendetta server.

1. Ok

2. We don't have smaller fights except for 5v5s in GvGs and some crystals on TWs, but again, the second ones are usually turn into a 5v20 really quick.

3. I'm fine about using 3 supports, but if you're forced to use 2 classes every time, it means something is wrong. We have 61 classes, we should be allowed to explore more instead of being forced to use 2 because they can clean more debuffs.

4. I literally said: "The staff will hardly get your suggestion, even if they just need to control+C it, imagine needing to develop content from 0 without a lead from community". I never said Vendetta copies anything.

5. We argue to sharpen the arguments. As long as discussions go, new ideas come, better than the older ones. No discussion = No progression.

6. *Sigh*

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47 minutes ago, Reikan said:

"Not really constructive"

I'm giving my opinions and suggestions to make the game better. It wouldn't be constructive if it was pointless complaints about the changes made on Vendetta server.

1. Ok

2. We don't have smaller fights except for 5v5s in GvGs and some crystals on TWs, but again, the second ones are usually turn into a 5v20 really quick.

3. I'm fine about using 3 supports, but if you're forced to use 2 classes every time, it means something is wrong. We have 61 classes, we should be allowed to explore more instead of being forced to use 2 because they can clean more debuffs.

4. I literally said: "The staff will hardly get your suggestion, even if they just need to control+C it, imagine needing to develop content from 0 without a lead from community". I never said Vendetta copies anything.

5. We argue to sharpen the arguments. As long as discussions go, new ideas come, better than the older ones. No discussion = No progression.

6. *Sigh*

It's not constructive cause I keep having to reiterate how its just simply not possible and any "work around" you think of I'm 99% sure I've already thought or just out right knew it was impossible to do, dating back to my original reply to this query. All my responses are just reasons why it's not possible and if I say somethings impossible then 99% of the time I'm telling the truth otherwise I would at least state why I wont do something like I did with the response about the enchants.

 

2. Back when I played when the server numbers where much higher including back on Aeria games when channels would be full and even 50vs50 GvG's. You still have several cases of smaller scale fights so I hardly believe its much different now.

3. People aren't forced to use 2 classes, they choose to because its the best option. If you buff another class it doesn't add variance it just changes what classes people play. We're not going to act like a moba where we have to buff and nerf classes on a bi-weekly basis just to keep the class selection fresh as people pay to gear a class. There is a couple of classes I'd like to tweak in the coming weeks but not a single one of them are supports.

4. It's not really what you said but now I understand what your trying to say and my response is, sure.

5.  Yes, but reiterating something I said just isn't going to work / isn't possible and trying to act like we're being ignorant isn't the way to go about creating a discussion.

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Wait... aren't you guys talking about ''variety'', and not ''variance''? Cause my english may be bad, since it's not my mother language, but I'm pretty sure variety means ''a lot of options to choose from'' and variance means ''fluctuation, range, rate"? Anyway. I think what Reikan's trying to say is... if you have a class that heals wonderfully, removes cc wonderfully, provides defensive buffs wonderfully... why would you pick any other class instead? Bufing Adjudicator, for example, would make him a bit more attractive, 'cause he would still heal nicely, would remove 3~4 crowd control effects with his Purifying Water, and would have some skills that are part of his identity. 

Or you could nerf Glacier Knight, for example. Holy Sage heals are not that strong compared to Adjudicator's, Glacier's or even Totem's. So, Holy Sage compensates that by removing more debuffs from his allies. Glacier Knight actually do everything. He heals, he clean debuffs, he provides damage reduction buffs, etc. Kinda OP, isn't it?

 

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On 7/28/2018 at 3:55 PM, Jordan said:

Enchantments are possible to fix but its something I'm on the fence about as ever since back when I played a common strategy for good guilds and good players where to build your party around stacking different levels to make it harder to counter your debuffs. If people can't seem to handle coordination is it right for me to come in and remove the feature from the game or is it my job to hinder the people who actually try their best to make the game simpler?

This its team work, if u guys dont like CC just make class to removed then i just see coments from Gravity Manipulator master , i you guys wanna to counteract the CC, there have a lots options.

CC= Team work - strategy leader.
Dmg = Well people that only knows how to jump

I wanna see the real nerf on Gravity Manipulator class how 80% of server will gonna cry.

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13 minutes ago, Mark20 said:

This its team work, if u guys dont like CC just make class to removed then i just see coments from Gravity Manipulator master , i you guys wanna to counteract the CC, there have a lots options.

CC= Team work - strategy leader.
Dmg = Well people that only knows how to jump

I wanna see the real nerf on Gravity Manipulator class how 80% of server will gonna cry.

We have classes to remove CC on our party, we're just not agreeing to build a bunch of Glacier Knights just because it's OP, it's common sense. Glacier shouldn't be healing more than Adjudicators even being able to clean more debuffs and also tanking better.

About the GM part, i'm a Gravity myself, so I'll consider it was a comment targetting me. I see a bunch of random GMs on TWs. Some on "top guilds" with said classes to support them (Glacier, Holy Sage) and they can't reach my level of result with the class. I've been getting top kills and capping 1st place on crystals in many TWs, do you know why? I'll answer that for you: I know my class potential and I use everything to benefit from it. There are lots of players that only know how to press 2~3 buttons, that exists on every class.

GM is currently a balanced class, you can't oneshot people inside their teams because of the %DMG Reduction from supports, yet with the right combo and setup you can kill people and be useful with CC. 

Now, why don't we go back to the topic instead of trying to demoralize people based on their main classes?

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2 hours ago, Fenril said:

Wait... aren't you guys talking about ''variety'', and not ''variance''? Cause my english may be bad, since it's not my mother language, but I'm pretty sure variety means ''a lot of options to choose from'' and variance means ''fluctuation, range, rate"? Anyway. I think what Reikan's trying to say is... if you have a class that heals wonderfully, removes cc wonderfully, provides defensive buffs wonderfully... why would you pick any other class instead? Bufing Adjudicator, for example, would make him a bit more attractive, 'cause he would still heal nicely, would remove 3~4 crowd control effects with his Purifying Water, and would have some skills that are part of his identity. 

Or you could nerf Glacier Knight, for example. Holy Sage heals are not that strong compared to Adjudicator's, Glacier's or even Totem's. So, Holy Sage compensates that by removing more debuffs from his allies. Glacier Knight actually do everything. He heals, he clean debuffs, he provides damage reduction buffs, etc. Kinda OP, isn't it?

 

Like I said it doesn't matter how many times I nerf/buff classes there will always be a trend of specific classes that will be seen as a "must" and will be played by a majority of partys. Besides a couple of classes which I have noted down all other classes are in a state of being playable but at the end people want to maximize their effectiveness and if that means playing glacier knight over adjudicator then that's what will happen. The only variances in this is people who have a special liking to certain classes to the point that they will play it over all others either because they like the challenge of playing something more difficult and as GM's we shouldn't really be expected to run around 24/7 tweaking classes up and down to keep changing the meta. I can maybe agree to a degree that with recent gears and achievements that Gravity Manipulator and Glacier Knight have had a small power creep but that's just what happens with MMORPG's, some gears and advancements are better for some classes more than others.

My time resources are limited and right now I'm currently waiting on Bash as mentioned in earlier replies before I can keep working on the next patch; however, I hope to be able to continue in the next week as I do want to get this patch out sometime this month. I also wanna focus on bringing back the Normal Class TW that I got flamed for removing as I will hopefully be able to spice that up to make it much more like the original days. I also have a small list of classes that I've had noted down since around December that I'd rather spend my time working on improving rather than nerfing an overplayed class. So unless something jumps out at me and is like completely off the wall broken like the bug that was discovered last week where you could pass the Arch-Elementalist shield to any class you you could use it on a class that likes being hit like mecha and have the bonus -fire resistance. I have far to many things that need to be done before I can do some tweaking again and hopefully once Bash is done I'll be able to pump a couple of nice updates out over the next few months including but not limited to new dungeons, normal class tw's, new gears, further on some awaken weapons, some bigger class changes to some of the underplayed classes, some QoL changes and also one last thing that I will not disclose until the next patch comes out as it should be part of the patch :)

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2 hours ago, Reikan said:

About the GM part, i'm a Gravity myself, so I'll consider it was a comment targetting me. I see a bunch of random GMs on TWs. Some on "top guilds" with said classes to support them (Glacier, Holy Sage) and they can't reach my level of result with the class. I've been getting top kills and capping 1st place on crystals in many TWs, do you know why? I'll answer that for you: I know my class potential and I use everything to benefit from it. There are lots of players that only know how to press 2~3 buttons, that exists on every class.

Big part of u guys think like u; GM its powa class try be versatil Player get 1° on Asura / BA  (since those 1hands class get small Nerf with the last patch) idk why really  ; 2hands Rilf ; CA.  and many class really good on the right hands.

Dmg its not all 

Strategy make u team great : D

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31 minutes ago, Mark20 said:

Strategy make u team great : D

Yes, and this is why my guild is happening to be competitive with less than 10 players on every TW.

Let's not change the subject of the topic here, ok? I'll start ignoring your targets against me from now on. We'll see each other in the TWs anyways ^-^

@Jordan

We don't need big nerfs to classes in order to give them an identity. Glacier should be the tankiest healer (and also share that tankiness with other team members), but not have the highest heal (Totem/Adju) or highest cleanse potential (Holy Sage).

Balance is not only about numbers, but identity aswell.

To the rest of your comment: Well, let's wait then.

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6 hours ago, Jordan said:

Like I said it doesn't matter how many times I nerf/buff classes there will always be a trend of specific classes that will be seen as a "must" and will be played by a majority of partys. Besides a couple of classes which I have noted down all other classes are in a state of being playable but at the end people want to maximize their effectiveness and if that means playing glacier knight over adjudicator then that's what will happen. The only variances in this is people who have a special liking to certain classes to the point that they will play it over all others either because they like the challenge of playing something more difficult and as GM's we shouldn't really be expected to run around 24/7 tweaking classes up and down to keep changing the meta. I can maybe agree to a degree that with recent gears and achievements that Gravity Manipulator and Glacier Knight have had a small power creep but that's just what happens with MMORPG's, some gears and advancements are better for some classes more than others.

Exactly. We will always have trending classes, but with the right tweaks here and there, we can minimize the impact of those classes. Nowadays, Glacier is a "MUST HAVE, OMGBBQ class!!". What we expect for the future is... "Hmm, Glacier Knight is interesting... but so is Life Worshipper... uhh, that Adjudicator looks nice too". I know it's hard to do, but it's definitely possible. We've seen that in other games, such as Ragnarok (mmorpg), League of legends (moba), Grand Chase (mmoag), etc. And rest assured that we do really understand that you have your own things to care about, your personal life, family, friends, studies, etc; So we can't and we won't demand updates every 2 weeks. It would be an absurd. But, to be honest, smaller updates like ''bug corrections'' or even ''typos corrections'' in-between massive updates are really adorable. Keeps people aware that you're still around and caring about the game. This is important because I'm pretty sure that a lot of this server players have played other games where the administration didn't even show up, so... it's just nice to interact with the game admins from time to time.  

My time resources are limited and right now I'm currently waiting on Bash as mentioned in earlier replies before I can keep working on the next patch; however, I hope to be able to continue in the next week as I do want to get this patch out sometime this month. I also wanna focus on bringing back the Normal Class TW that I got flamed for removing as I will hopefully be able to spice that up to make it much more like the original days. I also have a small list of classes that I've had noted down since around December that I'd rather spend my time working on improving rather than nerfing an overplayed class. So unless something jumps out at me and is like completely off the wall broken like the bug that was discovered last week where you could pass the Arch-Elementalist shield to any class you you could use it on a class that likes being hit like mecha and have the bonus -fire resistance. I have far to many things that need to be done before I can do some tweaking again and hopefully once Bash is done I'll be able to pump a couple of nice updates out over the next few months including but not limited to new dungeons, normal class tw's, new gears, further on some awaken weapons, some bigger class changes to some of the underplayed classes, some QoL changes and also one last thing that I will not disclose until the next patch comes out as it should be part of the patch :)

Pretty good news have the exact same effect on me as a nice, cold coke in the middle of the desert. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
And to be honest, I don't know why people flamed you for removing the normal class TW. It was really broken. An entire pvp map full of invisible Illusionists spamming "sleep" and killing everyone with one "deadly icicle". Supa fun! ¬¬'

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The problem with working on smaller updates between bigger updates is the fact that I basically cannot be working on a big update as I can't test the smaller patch without doing around 30mins of reverting on my testing server and then everything I do has to be done twice. Once for the clients current patch and another for the bigger updates client.

The game right now is in a balanced state in my opinion, yes their is always improvements but I'm hey atleast we're not aeria where you get blown up by most classes without any hope to survive and then even if you survive you always have the chance to kill yourself on reflect. That's not even mentioning that now they have a 90 day ban rules in place for anyone who plays elegant dancer and mecha in the same party because +DMG amplifiys your reflect (even though rifleteer has more reflect and simalar +damage)

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7 hours ago, Reikan said:

Let's not change the subject of the topic here, ok?

Who change the thread : thinking:

Are you guys who want removed cc or put others unnecessary (-mov spd) 

Server its ok am once who flamed Jordan for removed TW' normal because there are once pvp really funny (2 per day)

I think the only issue on TW normal was the shura's because they can hitting u by 1 shot

 

Dont be angry to tell you the truth about Gravity Manipulator Players ; Just let jordan do his job which is the only one guy that has really done a lot things  than Aeria 

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