infecttado

R.I.P Tank classes

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@Jordan ty for 20% def reduction with that all my tank classes back to useless list. I know is on test but is good for other and bad for tanks , classes like ED and Mimic what i was using to get fun cant tank a single assassin, and before i was tanking 5 assassins together.

Im talking that as a solo test .

I dont play with party.

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All classes are weak against a pt alone, and tw/gvg are not really made to play alone, so you cant expect to do much in any class like this, also a mimic, paladin, shielder and any other tank classes are still super tank if you are in a pt, and probably will never die before the rest of the pt.

And i think if he start to balance classes only to solo players do better with 1 class, the pvp will be totally broken.

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I'm sorry but if your going into group PvP solo then it's kinda your own fault that you can't tank high dps classes. Thats like going into a dungeon that requires 10 people and asking why the boss isn't killable solo.

It was an experimental change and in no way shape or form will I be judging the success over solo yoloing TW.

Edit: The change will likely result in 1 of the 2 things, nerf to over powered pdps that became broken with the change like Assassin or reverted back to 70. Depends really on how broken the classes became, but seriously you cannot think that I put much thought into solo players in a group based pvp (there is a reason that you must be in a guild to even enter TW). Like why are you even playing a Tank in solo pvp? who are you tanking for exactly? tanks are suppose to take the hits while the DPS dish out damage.

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11 hours ago, Yukani said:

All classes are weak against a pt alone, and tw/gvg are not really made to play alone, so you cant expect to do much in any class like this, also a mimic, paladin, shielder and any other tank classes are still super tank if you are in a pt, and probably will never die before the rest of the pt.

why for 5 months i've played solo in tw and was fun, and now i die in a single Assassin combo?

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8 hours ago, Jordan said:

I'm sorry but if your going into group PvP solo then it's kinda your own fault that you can't tank high dps classes. Thats like going into a dungeon that requires 10 people and asking why the boss isn't killable solo.

i'm tank ( Mimic/ED: only for cc and run, if i make ppl get unable to do any action it make 100% diference) i don't like to kill ppl, and play with some players whos abuse bugs and ppl who only think with themselves.

yesterday i have try mimic x assassin, and i died in 3 secs, with 50% block i didn't blocked any hit and recived triple hit combo on last skill:

1st skill failed>2nd failed>3rd ( 315k>157k>70k and dead.) (player lv101, i'm lv 106 so level was not the problem)

And vs mdps or hybrid classes  still the same as before.

If this 20% def reduction keep in game i wish u rebalance ED skills: like reducing heal skill cooldown (with Glyph np) , and reducing Samba skill cooldown to 3 secs (have imunity and don't need to have high cooldown).

and if can reduce duration of dance force buff making ppl put points on kp.

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8 hours ago, Jordan said:

but seriously you cannot think that I put much thought into solo players in a group based pvp

I never focus on stay vs 1 full party, i ever try to stop cappers and healers.

When Celestial Guild was alive they added 1 more glacier to their party to prevent me.

i'm the only Mimic in game and now i'm trying to find an way to keep playing as it.

(Sorry for many reply)

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2 hours ago, infecttado said:

why for 5 months i've played solo in tw and was fun, and now i die in a single Assassin combo?

I dont think if you die to a assassin in 1 combo with a tank class its because of 20% def reduction, probably just proc, but what you need to understand is that tank classes like Shielder or even Zerk was basically immortal in a pt with at least 1 healer, going yolo with a tank class dont matter the def or not you will eventually die when they get to focus you.

And again he have to focus in the main pvp of the game, which is tw/gvg, meaning group pvp, if he raise the defense again, for sure the reasson will not be to yolo tank classes survive a bit more, i agree that assassin is a bit overpowered right now but on my vision if you nerf assassin dmg in a bit, it will lose the spot of the best capper and everyone gotta play zerk or asura again and the class will became useless like before since asura and zerk can work in a party and assassin dont.

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It's not like playstyles getting buried is uncommon, it happens with any MMO (many times just for the sake of change). As a solo player you gotta switch your main at times. I remember paladin being a nice stun kill combo class I was successful with before shied nerf but I didn't get to it's full potential before nerf :( but I'm doing fine stomping people with hb since there are many that just don't gear, grind lv or get good, I'm just afraid of money team at this point. I didn't see ideas for making arenas genuinely better supported so looks like people here just don't care about that. I'm glad you had fun and theres nothing wrong with that but this is doing guild pvp the wrong way.

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8 hours ago, Frost Knight said:

It's not like playstyles getting buried is uncommon, it happens with any MMO (many times just for the sake of change). As a solo player you gotta switch your main at times. I remember paladin being a nice stun kill combo class I was successful with before shied nerf but I didn't get to it's full potential before nerf :( but I'm doing fine stomping people with hb since there are many that just don't gear, grind lv or get good, I'm just afraid of money team at this point. I didn't see ideas for making arenas genuinely better supported so looks like people here just don't care about that. I'm glad you had fun and theres nothing wrong with that but this is doing guild pvp the wrong way.

How is Holy Blade feeling after the small change I made server side, is it still getting a lot of Target to Far? or is it much better now?

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19 hours ago, Yukani said:

I dont think if you die to a assassin in 1 combo with a tank class its because of 20% def reduction, probably just proc, but what you need to understand is that tank classes like Shielder or even Zerk was basically immortal in a pt with at least 1 healer, going yolo with a tank class dont matter the def or not you will eventually die when they get to focus you.

And again he have to focus in the main pvp of the game, which is tw/gvg, meaning group pvp, if he raise the defense again, for sure the reasson will not be to yolo tank classes survive a bit more, i agree that assassin is a bit overpowered right now but on my vision if you nerf assassin dmg in a bit, it will lose the spot of the best capper and everyone gotta play zerk or asura again and the class will became useless like before since asura and zerk can work in a party and assassin dont.

I can likely tweak Assassin without hurting its capping, would likely mean nerfing the stuff that doesn't affect the crystal such as triple hits and such. I'll see though right now I'm just trying to get a feel for the change and see how it went before proceeding with anymore changes to classes.

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23 minutes ago, Jordan said:

How is Holy Blade feeling after the small change I made server side, is it still getting a lot of Target to Far? or is it much better now? 

Honestly I wasn't very active the last couple days. I'll give you feedback next gvg or maybe one of the tws this week. Prior to that change I already used transformations to cut animation delays like alpaca transformation crystal which lets you fire off the skill pretty much the same frame you pressed the button, downside is you lose the buff when hit so you kinda have to spam it. I'm also using the imp transformation as a compromise for cases spamming alpaca crystal just doesn't work. Also stacking movespeed helps. I usually don't chase around people and only go on these who don't move much except when I go for stuns or if the opponent is likely to die in a couple hits / dot ticks.

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On 12/9/2018 at 6:16 AM, Jordan said:

your

you're*

-------------------------

Also about this post, I know it is fun messing around with classes like mimic or illusionist or even tanking many people at the same time. It is really fun, i have been doing that on MS on 2013-2014 while killing people with mimic or just sleep people, time cc them etc and then run away. But there is one thing, just like Jordan mentioned. GvG and TWs are usually made for party players, usually soloing would mean to either cap or just cc them alone, WHICH you can still do. But tanking people should be fine still, i don't think 1 on 1 it should just kill a tanky mimic you could run away with it, if you did get 1 shot, it probably is the level difference or an extremely lucky proc.

If you are trying to tank many people at the same time, then it is just wrong. And the truth is, all the people who tried to tank many people and managed to do so, was solely because the other people who they were tanking, just were using classes to fight actual parties.

If you want to kill someone tanky, let's say Prime for example who is always trying to tank people alone. It is not that people take time to kill him, it is just it is not worth it to change classes just to kill someone who is trying to waste our time, meanwhile another geared party could wreck us while we changed classes. Just 2 classes is enough ( you will know which ones, just look at the skills, there are many of them), to wipe anyone who is trying to do that tank-alone strategy.

Join a guild, make better good use of that mimic or shielder on a party, there are hundreds of different strategies that you can pull. Especially with mimic, right now the defense is 50 %, it means things like burning metal etc are even much worst as a debuff on mimic, since it is easier to reach lower defense % from that, thus dealing more damage. You will have more fun playing with teamwork rather than just those alone things, Believe me, i been in almost every single situations of this game from 0 to everything possible on pvps, you should play with people.

I know infectado your BR friends quit, but it does not mean the end, people come and go, just make new friends new colleagues to play with as you continue. Have fun in your game.

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2 hours ago, Jordan said:

I can likely tweak Assassin without hurting its capping, would likely mean nerfing the stuff that doesn't affect the crystal such as triple hits and such. I'll see though right now I'm just trying to get a feel for the change and see how it went before proceeding with anymore changes to classes.

Idk, im not 100% sure if its a good in nerfing assassin, the class is 100% single target and the purpose of ''assassin'' always been to kill fast and leave, not just cap, maybe you can increase the cd of the heal skill or just remove it to be invisible after used, so ppl will think 2 times before getting on middle of a bunch of ppl to kill and leave, gonna keep the same gameplay of been able to kill someone and leave fast, just a bit harder and probably a death if you fail, right now any assassin can just hit or kill you and invisible again everytime, even on middle of a pt.

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1 hour ago, Deathoniak said:

I know infectado your BR friends quit

that's true but i don't speak english too good, so i can't follow exacly the instructions.

And thats why i play solo, brazilian community isn't good, ppl who u help become toxic after being strong(All of then without exceptions).

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9 hours ago, infecttado said:

Brazilian community isn't good, ppl who u help become toxic after being strong(All of then without exceptions).

I don't think so. The only thing to complain about our people is the discipline, we don't have a midterm. We're either too tryhard or too lazy to leave Aven. I know you didn't like the path our guild took but I also know you understand it was for the best. :) 

@Topic

I agree that you shouldn't be doing stuff solo in a group environment, and I'd like to expand that to PvE aswell: I like the fact that most of VGN-exclusive content isn't solo-able.

We have awesome games to play alone but a MMORPG isn't the best bet for that.

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Why can't people understand that there isn't supposed to be a "perfect class" :c every class can and has to be able to both kill and die, not just kill.

Except supports and healers of course, just replace the "kill" part with support and heal respectively.

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About the cast changes: I noticed on duels how skills sometimes finished casting even though my opponent moved out of range but that's about it. On Tw it is mostly a matter of if I am fast enough to catch my opponent or not, if I'm too slow then I shouldn't bother because the thing I said earlier would just occur once at best and for the rest I'm just out of range to start casting that skill in the first place. Also sorry for the late response.

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1 hour ago, Frost Knight said:

About the cast changes: I noticed on duels how skills sometimes finished casting even though my opponent moved out of range but that's about it. On Tw it is mostly a matter of if I am fast enough to catch my opponent or not, if I'm too slow then I shouldn't bother because the thing I said earlier would just occur once at best and for the rest I'm just out of range to start casting that skill in the first place. Also sorry for the late response.

Thats what i always said about HB range, but its fine now since the +225% dmg buff work in basic hits too, so you always should be closed to ppl while fighting.

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Well is not a "Huge" nerf at the end, tank classes are still very strong in team play despite this change and as they said before if you are playing by yourself. Obviously, you will be crushed at some point if you fight against heavy dmg classes, even more, if they have any sort of skill that deals dmg based on your max hp. I'm a tank player and it's unfair for DPS classes to face shielders or glacier knights for example, due to the excessive dmg reduction that they can reach and the heals that they have. 
I agree that it can be fun stand your ground alone taking almost no damage, but in the long run, it just ain't right.

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