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Deathoniak

Server State For New Players

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Making this thread to address how things are going on, This also is to average players in the game

New players usually die out at quest end which is level 92-95. If no one carries them. They usually cannot do anything because no gold. Gear is way too weak and way too grindy to even do fae. A geared player would do fae in 4 minutes. A new player with tk gear 1 awaken class and 1 + weapon, will take atleast 15 to 20 min to finish 1 run. 10 runs = 150 -200 min.

I know Squid made a video about being able to grind fae with no armor, just weapon and trophies. But do not forget it is not just that, A new player has no gold to have that awaken classes CE unlocked to even be able to do proper damage nor survive. They do not have the achievement he has, nor the knowledge or Trophies/Accessories he used.

This makes players not want to come play despite they do come they always quit. Every now and then a new guild pops with many players who need to do PvE to be able to achieve what many others did. There is level to grind. Ccm to grind. Gold to grind. Achievements to do. Gems to make. Without spending money they cannot really do anything.

If it is PvP, No one wants to face people that are heavily overgeared than them if pvp wise. People cannot spend all day grind it, this kills the server state. I would suggest make better ways for new players to make gold. And not rely on RNG to roll altar. There is always less people that donate, than players who do not. That is the reason why EE is played by many players who cannot really afford many things. So if can solve this. More people will come, and in turn more will donate so they are able to play with the others.

Let's talk a bit about PvP.

I know there has been many reasons why PvP players quit the game, which go from drama , not properly understanding the game, complaining about classes been broken and a few more. But that is not only the reasons.

For so many months, PvP has just been MT vs Garden, 10vs10s and there is those randoms from smaller guilds or sometimes some people in Phi try and you can get around 20 kills. There is no fun in it anymore, it is not intense anymore. There is barely any GvG that is worth it, people will get stomped in few minutes. A guild will only last long on situations where players like us,just decide not to go pvp because it is boring now, and then it is just 2 or 3 of us vs the rest, so it just becomes a cap war.

There is no new players that come, if the do come, they will usually get killed so fast due to having no gears. Yes Level difference matters but i am not talking about a Geared Level 110 facing a Geared Level 100. The Level 100 can still get away with it, despite level impacts a lot. But i am talking about those new players that barely have any proper build, resist, defense, damage to even pull something out.

Having made many alts, let's take a look of the different things you will need as a new player , taking level 100 gears into consideration.

  • First the leveling, which usually stops at level 91 with quest then they have to buy DoS slightly to 92 then proceed to 94 with viroona quests. Questing would give you around 5k gold. They need to be atleast level 95 to do the new contents, because no one does old content anymore. For so many months i keep see players LF4m LF3m LF3m for <xx trials> for hours, no one is helping them at all. Yes gearing at older content will help, but even getting there is a bit rough. And people do not have all time.
  • At level 95, they need 6k Gold to buy an awaken armor book, (66k if all awaken books which is rather important at end game but keep 6k for now), It is already hard to find the Guild Bosses in the trials for them unlike geared players, so doing them 1 by 1 can take many weeks to months. 1 of these quests also will require you Inks, ccm and among other items which require gold. I would say atleast 10k gold is gone per these quests.
  • Since a new player who does not get carried by others, needs their classes leveled in order to even be able to participate in DoDs, trials (which almost no one does), so they have to atleast buy runs to proceed which is around 250G, Ofc they don't need all classes leveled so let's take 20 out of these. 20 classes to 80 is 5k Gold, and then awakening the 20 classes is 20k Gold. Buying 1 class to 85 is around 400G, so out of 40 awaken classes if they buy 20 for the important CE, it is 8k gold.
  • Level 95 Trials might take 1 min or 2 minutes for us top tier players to do, or even solo, but for new players? 1 Trial can take them more than 20 min if they keep die. Counting disconects boss resets, wipes etc. It takes a relative large amount of time for them to even get the trials done, if no one carries them.
  • Achievements now, 1 Corona Stardust 65 is 150G, 90/100 is 250-350g sometimes more. You need atleast 50 of these to be able to do the basic achieves to even be able to survive constantly without any issues to Level 95 + trials. If some player would want to PvP, they will need atleast 300 + of them to even finish the ones they require for 1 class. If all weapons then it can go around 400 +. so let's take level 65 stardusts x 300 = 45k gold, Now they need Eternal Coins , which cost around 450 of them. Having made so many alts full achieves , i can tell to finish all achieves to 90 apart from runes takes you around 400 EP, That is 180k Gold, Of course a new player don't need to do all, so let's say atleast 100k gold will be invested into it. And if they have to grind for it it takes all their time for other things. People are playing this game for fun, not to kill themselves grinding.
  • The Blueprints and Fame items you need to even craft for achievement usually use up all your gold. The blueprint price can be very very costly depending on the guild tax %. but already at 5 % it takes quite a while to even get them done.
  • Now Gems is very important, without gems there is no point to even PvP, and to even do Level 95 trials ESPECIALLY level 100 ones. you need to be at full HP and High HP. GoP , you can barely even carry any new player. 1 Resist gem costs atleast 2.5k if you buy them for a Level 7 one. If you craft them it will cost you atleast 1.5k gold, taking essence, EP mats etc into consideration. So 12 gems per set will cost someone 18k gold to just get resist gems. Now to PvP players They need more than just resist gems, the new gems added help a lot to be at end game , but let's just say they will use normal resist ones. But they will go for tower gems etc, which their base gem costs 1.5-2k already. There is barely any crafters that sell gems now, so they have to level their own racials, which take time to gather materials, their own time to invest leveling alts, not to mention it was already hard for them to get their own main leveled. Also many players don't have a high end pc to do many clients to keep gather at the same time.
  • The New gears are harder to get, and they will give anyone who uses them a big boost in damage and survival, so hunting them is almost a necessity now. It is easy for old players who have already geared themselves or have gold for it. Myself being the one of the best if not the best speed runner to get characters geared from 0 due to myself having the resources and help for it. But for new players it is not. You will also need Fort stones, 1 set to +14 will cost you [(100*6) + (250*2) + (300*2) + (350*2) + (350*2)] per piece from just the stones (viridian/ultramarine/coral/citrine/amethyst/rose). Not counting the Guard Scroll Primes/Power Scroll Primes used on it and the BIG fail RNG that happens. Then they will need reset scrolls from all sorts, which can range from 1k to 10k + depending on the RNG per piece they want to be at top end, 1ks being the ones for the new players.

These new players can barely grind Fae properly , even if they do and spend so many hours of their time, they can only get 7k a day if they do not invest $$ into the game. Yes the server needs $$ to run i already took that into consideration but just like i said above, there is always more players than play this game because it is free to play. I am not saying it is Pay2Win, it is Pay2WinFaster for sure. But 7k a day with all these RNG involved is hard.

I made a new character from scratch, i had the resources and many friends did help me, just in order to get myself geared just like my old account, took me a lot of VGN as well as more than 2 million gold. But i have everything geared so let's just take 1 class gear into consideration counting all these achieves etc will take them more than 500k gold to even get there to PvP. (which used to be the reason why EE has been alive for so long). If PvE then maybe less but it is still a grind fest.

And if a player really wants to be top end , he would want to have the best things for the specific role he plays. Which requires a LOT more gold , example top tier gems, top tier pets, best weapons, best forts. At the very moment just these i just mentioned will cost you more than 800k gold in game to get, due to how expensive they have become. Of course they are not needed, but in PvP it is another thing (the pet is not a big difference, but it can make a difference between killing or capping and making a win), Players who keep win over and over again mostly have these pets , while the others who don't have the resource for it just lose and quit over the time

There is so many more things that is hard for them to acquire, like Honor Stars to get them their desired set, they have to grind for it, or rolling gem altar which is so much on RNG it could take all their gold and not get anything. I know a MMO needs grinding , and EE already has it, but at the current state, it is so hard for a new player to get things, so much of their real time invested into the game, As someone who works and studies as well as those who work or study, time is hard to get , even 1 hour a day is hard to get sometimes.

So for new players the cost is very heavy right now. There still is so many of their everyday needs which i will not mention, there is too many of them. EC is 250-300G each at the moment, so if they want to roll altar they will have to buy that too , using up all their gold. Legendary price is low at the moment but it still will use all their gold, making them grind grind grind everyday for it. They cannot really enjoy what they want in a Private Server anymore unless they grind hell. Not to mention the other dungeons give so little gold (Meeryasha and so on), Viroona Ruins is out of question it is way harder than Fae, so i won't even mention that for now.

 

If anyone wants to add more things i missed, i am just writing this on whatever came to my mind and was thinking about over the time. Feel free to post it on the thread. I felt like this needs to be addressed as someone who is on the top and can see everyone's ups and downs and how they do things in various guilds and various situations. I do not think just adding new contents will solve this, because the server has been going on a constant downfall in numbers of players not because they are busy or drama, it is hard for many new players to even be able to play the game properly.

Thank you.

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Loooot to reaaad...

But thanks to make that, because always when i'm on i goes all time carrying people and lot of times they tell me : "Oh it's not all the time people carry here" / "Think of yourself first before other" 

So yeah i think you touched a big problems here 

Big thanks for writting all of that i got nothing to add.

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There is not really a safe way to tackle this problem with a game this old without making everyone start from 1 again. Just going over your points:

  • You can add exp to the quests so they hit 95 safely but they still run into the same problems of not being able to gear without being carried as you cannot force older players to run this dungeons regularly and even if you do by say adding a daily or a quest that requires them you still run into a problem where 90% of geared players wont invite new players and will prefer to run solo or run a super geared party to melt bosses in like 2 seconds.
  • They can skip out on Awaken Armors and just go for a gold set. I mean the only other suggestion is adding a 95 TK set that is the same as 90 where its as if its +10 but cannot be forted.
  • People only invite geared people, people need gear to participate its not all the games fault on this point it's also a player mindset.
  • Can't do anything about this, if your max geared and know how to play the game well you cannot expect to take the same time as average joe with his band of new players.
  • You do not need capped achievements or even all the way to 95 to PvP. There's a difference between being able to PvP and being able to do the best in PvP and there is a lot of little things you can do to boost stats in certain areas to be able to participate such as a resistance certificate or just putting all the quest and book quest gems inside your set to get decent at best resistances. Yeh sure if you wanna be a top dog then you need everything done but to be honest I think with this point your seeing things from a perfectionists point of view. This problem was already countered by me forcing 65 stardust on the altar on a low place for people to get so that people can at least to 1-65 easier.
  • same as above.
  • This has been mentioned above but you can get away with using book quest gems in most places and then improve them later when you can farm effectivly.
  • I can't make new gear easy to get or their is no point in me adding it, if a player can get all the new stuff in 1 day then what's even the point in putting new stuff into the game. As for resets new players really shouldn't be worried about getting a perfect set. Just using the Aeria logic of trying for 3/5 on each piece is fine, this again is a bit too "perfectionist" mindset. As you know full well back when the balance patch was released I played an alt character with 27% on achievements (which already had some not needed achievements like multiple weapons completed) and had 10/12 gems from book quests (some needing to be leveled up once) and even had 3/5 pieces only 4/5 on forts and for the longest time had even 3/5 on those pieces. After all the above mentioned I could come top place in TW even considering the class I was playing was seen as bad or at-least not meta.

 

All your problems stem from the game being kinda hard to catch up on. However, this is a problem thats almost impossible to solve because if you make gear too easy then people who grinded hard will be anoyed especially as the gear is already on par with what they have if not the gear they're using. If you make gold easier (which you suggested to me on discord) then prices just go up because current players and new players can both take advantage of it so the problem isn't solved.

The big problem in my eyes is the difference between a player who knows what to do and a player who doesn't. If a player is like us who knows the game well then they know what can be sacrificed to be able to catch up faster than people who do not know. Even making a guide on this likely wont help much. There is also the current mentality of MMORPG's where everything has to be given on a silver platter or they QQ and quit (All it takes is one look at every single mobile MMORPG to see where this mindset came from, built in bots to play the game for you?). The only contribution I can give personally is making the awaken armors slightly easier to complete with things like CCM but not actual quest objectives (as these can't really be changed without causing problems). Possibly making a TK set/weapon for level 95 to bridge the gap for new players who can't fae. New content maps are in the works for questing past 95 but is taking a lot of time to put together along with a new grinding area but all takes time.

 

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Just gonna plop my 2 cents in here real quick. This is just MY PERSONAL opinion on the game, feel free to reply but don't be a dick jerk about it, cause I kinda just rejoined a month ago.

I think one of the main problems within the game is that there aren't enough new players to support other gamers while levelling up, because the game itself is not very popular anymore. A lot of older players already have the advantage by having the knowledge base from previous EE servers/experience on VGN to know where to go, what needs to be done, how to get to a high level as fast as possible, how the economy is set, etc etc.

If you're wondering why the game seems so dead...

Eden has been around for like 8ish years now, and I think it's odd that there's only one private server. Maybe if there were more private servers, it would attract more people, and private servers would need to compete in order to draw even more players. (Idk if anybody plays perfect world, but there's a lot of different private servers that strive to be the greatest, and there are lots of players on any server you join, at least the one's I've played on. Eden needs that to keep the game alive). As much as I hate to say it, I do believe EE and VGN needs some more advertisement as well. 

I know it's not feasible for EE private servers to just magically start coming online, but if it were, that's what I think would elevate the server population, in theory.

Now, about EE VGN...

You don't see ANYBODY camping at level 69 or 80 (or whatever level people used to camp at, forgive me it's been awhile since even I did). And the reason being is because there's no longer a level cap on trophies or drops. It's also REAL easy to plvl anybody nowadays, and with such a high exp rate, most NEW players level up fairly quickly, and quests can be skipped, with new ones popping up everytime you level in some cases. 

I feel like if the level cap for drops was put back on, it would almost force players to take a break and focus on getting whatever they need before moving on. At least, that's what happened to me when I was beginning on Aeria WAYYY back in the day. 

But then again, what's the point of doing trials of any level anymore? You can solo them WHEN YOU'RE GEARED.

I feel like I have a good point but idk how to express myself easily so just deal w it

Also, I remember back when the peer chats were separated, it was a lot easier to ask for help, because all people in your peer chat were around the same level as you and had the same problems. And if you are just starting out, it's nice to know people that are within your level range and level up with them. Back when I was just starting out it was really nice to have a little friendly "competition" while learning the game. I've also noticed that a lot of people are more concerned with levelling faster, as there's nobody to talk to or team up with at a lower level, and that's straight up boring.

However, I understand that with a low influx of players, separating the peer chats may not be the correct option. If the chats were separated, those low level players may not see other people in the chat, and may just think it's REALLY dead. However, most of the player population is already above level 80, and the peer chats could just be straight up dead for the most part. Then again I have no idea how many new players join the server per month or whatever. 

 

So my three suggestions are:

1. Put the level cap back on for drops.

2. Segregate the peer chats again.

3. Spread the word of VGN EE!

 

IDK if that would literally do anything, but it's just what I think would change up the server a bit and add that sense of gameplay back into EE VGN. And I know there are a whole lot of downsides to changing anything about the server rates or drops or anything, but maybe this server just needs a few big changes in order to attract more players who actually wanna play the game and enjoy it.

Sidenote: If I ever did a trial back in the day with any of you old folks from Aeria or PlayEden, just know that that was a boppin' time and I always had hella fun doing trials even if I was the squishiest Samurai ever. Personally, I LOVED doing trials, and I don't know if anybody can relate to the feeling of when you just killed the boss and it drops your call, and it's 120% and you just kinda wanna scream because you've done the trial like 10 times already, and then you hit need and it pops up in your bag and you just feel so COMPLETE. qwq

And remember guys, try not to focus so hard on the NUMBERS! Enjoy the GAME and the BEAUTY of it!

If you read this whole thing, sorry for giving you a seizure with all the different font sizes I used :D

6VqxanK.gif

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On 1/3/2019 at 10:45 AM, Ophed said:

 

It's hard to compare Perfect World and EE because back when perfect world was big it was really big, like different kinda ball pond from EE. EE has always been a bit of a niche game as you basically have to enjoy Anime or Dressing up games to enjoy Eden or even to try Eden and then even if people grow out of that kinda style then they fall back on them enjoying the game and how unique it is as an MMO. So opening more private servers would potentially increase the playerbase as a whole but per server would be infinatly lower as it would be split across X servers and as Eden is a put work into 1 character kinda game it wont work having that watered down community.

Level cap drop wasn't the thing keeping people at 65-69, it was the 3vs3 arena, some players would claim it was more fun than the 70-75 one (personally I think it was because it was easier but each to their own). This was crushed when Awaken Classes where released or a little bit after because less and less people stayed down there especially after they kepted decreasing the EXP required to level up with each content patch so they would have to suicide a lot to stay in the bracket. I actually think the level change is even better now that Normal Class TW has a cap limit of 80 gears as now players of any level will be running these trials for gear to participate in the TW. Removing this would just be giving an advantage to people with more time to level an alt to farm gears and would likely not change the outcome on level 60-70 level bracket. I'd say a similar thing about the peer chat integration but would add a note that I think one of the biggest turn offs in the past for new players was talking in peer and having 0 response because 95% of the population was in the 70+ chat. I remember back when I played like (over 2 years ago when the server was still fresh) I could leave my alt gathering and in 1-30 peer chat after 8-10 hours would have 0 messages or less than 10 always. As for the middle bracket it was also dead as hell wouldn't even lose the message of "you have entered blah peer chat" on 99% of days. Now when new players login they can see peer chat activity, they can see that there is people in the game rather than hoping for the best till they reach level 70 (Plus asside from this there was a couple of bugs with peer chat with people over level 100). I know you already mentioned this, but thought giving what I've experianced first hand would help you understand what I'm saying.

Also as a side note as I forgot to hit on it, 90% of players don't gear till they hit cap these days, even on PlayEden which had the drop thing in place that you mentioned. We all just went straight to level 75 (Before they updated to 100 cap) and then geared once level 75. I remember using a purple weapon to kill DD and Vingot bosses lol.

Advertisement is a sure thing but it's not something easy to do for a private server when the live server is still around.

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I think a good solution would be to change the lv 90 DoD, when you finish your quests as a new player and you're in your 90's you get the set that has good defense, but your weapons are just awful, and the 10 free stones you get have a 1/20 chance of giving you a good weapon that can't yet carry you through fae. Making the single-player mode of DoD drop more weapons or adding a lv90 temple knight weapon set would help a lot, also changing the level up rewards you get from the level orbs, they are literally ancient and do almost nothing for a new player, not to mention having them until 60 was good when the cap was lvl 65, we're at the basic starter levels being around 90 now. Having a newbie's guide in-game could also help explain things from the game more easily, such as daily things to do or methods.

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3 hours ago, Alouette said:

I think a good solution would be to change the lv 90 DoD, when you finish your quests as a new player and you're in your 90's you get the set that has good defense, but your weapons are just awful, and the 10 free stones you get have a 1/20 chance of giving you a good weapon that can't yet carry you through fae. Making the single-player mode of DoD drop more weapons or adding a lv90 temple knight weapon set would help a lot, also changing the level up rewards you get from the level orbs, they are literally ancient and do almost nothing for a new player, not to mention having them until 60 was good when the cap was lvl 65, we're at the basic starter levels being around 90 now. Having a newbie's guide in-game could also help explain things from the game more easily, such as daily things to do or methods.

Level rewards I don't really wanna touch as they're default in the game so I'd like to leave how it is, we did however spice up the starter pack for new players to solve that very problem. I will be doing something about 90 weapons and 95 gears in result of this thread but not 100% on what yet so stay tuned for it.

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9 hours ago, Jordan said:

Level rewards I don't really wanna touch as they're default in the game so I'd like to leave how it is, we did however spice up the starter pack for new players to solve that very problem. I will be doing something about 90 weapons and 95 gears in result of this thread but not 100% on what yet so stay tuned for it.

I'll be looking forward to it, here's an idea that might be useful, you could add a relatively strong weapon or set that new players could use, but has a max level limit of 90 / 95, and isn't as good as real +14 Lv95 gear of course, that would encourage people to focus on getting their gears good at that level before going to 96 and trying to get into things like GoC

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30 minutes ago, Alouette said:

I'll be looking forward to it, here's an idea that might be useful, you could add a relatively strong weapon or set that new players could use, but has a max level limit of 90 / 95, and isn't as good as real +14 Lv95 gear of course, that would encourage people to focus on getting their gears good at that level before going to 96 and trying to get into things like GoC

I don't think I can limit gears individually. Not really sure though.

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2 minutes ago, Jordan said:

I don't think I can limit gears individually. Not really sure though.

If you find a way to do it, (which I believe you can because you managed to put viroona on the map as a normal warp point) that could open doors for much more than just level limiting weapons or specific items!

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I know this is an old topic but I wanted to share my experience as a new (now former) player. I simply had to quit because of the time and money I knew I would have to invest, and mostly while doing it alone. It got very lonely. Some of the problems for new players have nothing to do with the way the game is managed but rather the game itself. Every class can be played on a single character so there are few lower level characters to group or interact with. The community is not very accommodating to new players because of this alone.

By the time I reached 92 I had no idea what to do. I ended up spending all my money to buy DoS runs in order to level to 93 to start Viroona, and the quests there ended halfway through 93. So I had to grind Fae to get enough gold to convince someone to run DoS again. And it went on and on just until I had enough to get to 95 and then grind Fae every day to get enough gold to unlock all the awakened classes. And  then enough gold to get key ones to 85 so I had the expertise stats just so I could start doing 95 trials (which I never even attempted because I doubted I could get the two required trophies from DoS). I did spend $10 for the altar and made a small profit from it, so that helped.

Honestly, I don't mind this kind of time/money investment but I was doing it all alone. I tried to reach out to people but they were busy doing their higher game content to deal with a totally new player. I had to pay people to interact with me and eventually I had enough. I don't know what can be done differently other than for there to constantly be fresh blood brought into the game. Or maybe a mentoring program that gives some kind of incentive or reward for experienced players to help newer ones. I will say leveling to 92 was a breeze and switching between classes was very fun. The game has a good concept. I did have fun, but that fun ended at 92.

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Hi and thanks posting to the forum

 

Since i know what you are feeling as i'm helping people to get lv 93+ everyday , You can ask ANY Forestria members. I gave my heart helping them, and now they're geared

Knowing the game, You can do 10k a day (Even without stuff) with 2hours of farm. 

1Hour of DoS run is 4k , if not free.

Gears won't help you farm 95T as most of your usefull Stats will come of your Class leveling. (lv85 for awaken)

 

I can't let you say weird thing because you didn't have the keys to advance, I don't know what guild you were in, but if you want to retry with the good keys, I shall accept you in Forestria, to help you to be geared. You won't be the first one and won't be the last one.

Pm at [GS]Nippa.

PS: It's a MMO, If you stop playing at the first wall.. Of course it won't works. DoS trophy are not that great. Thanks for reading.

Thanks See you in game , if you want to try.

Edited by Nipaa
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1 hour ago, Irthwynd said:

. The community is not very accommodating to new players because of this alone.

It's not like i created a guild for that, by the ways :) With 95t karry, TK carry ,dragon expe carry everyday.

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Nipaa, I appreciate your reply and I did not know you devoted so much time to helping new players. That is very generous of you. The issue I am trying to express here is that I had to pay people in order to advance in the game, not work together with people my level in order to advance. And it was not cheap. I paid 8k per DoS run (if I had known I was being taken advantage of I wouldn't have paid it). I don't think anybody would do it for free, at least not in my guild. I just think it's a problem that a game requires something like DoS runs and carries from higher level players in order for people to catch up in level, not to mention gear. I do really enjoy the game and I might return, but I hope I can work with people and not just get carried. :)

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16 minutes ago, Irthwynd said:

. The issue I am trying to express here is that I had to pay people in order to advance in the game, not work together with people my level in order to advance. 

^^ Get a Guild.

17 minutes ago, Irthwynd said:

. I don't think anybody would do it for free, at least not in my guild. 

We do it for free for each member, Hoping they'll stay. Cuz we're a family. That's called a living guild.

17 minutes ago, Irthwynd said:

. I just think it's a problem that a game requires something like DoS runs 

You can run DoS easly with 2 level 70-75 trophy and Totem master, Even with TK set

18 minutes ago, Irthwynd said:

 I can work with people and not just get carried. :)

We're not gonna carry you, But help you, If you come to 95t, You're getting a role no matter what your stuff is, We will adapt

Same for TW 75% of my people are not geared, and still with adaptation we're in the fight.

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