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Luxdrayn

[Feedback] Kage Rework

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Kage Rework

 

Hello guys,

It has been more than a month since the Kage was modified (FINALLY) so I decided to open this topic in order to have opinions about the class (whether in PvP or PvE) what you would like as possible improvements / nerf.

For those who are late/new: 

  • The rework of the Kage was done during the v40 patch (released on December 6, 2018)
  • It is a hybrid class (except for the water stance which is only magical ) a little special because once you have selected a stance, all your damage will have the same element (like the annihilator with the bullets)

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The different stances

  • This class wants to be unique because of its design and its way of playing.

Factor to be taken into account:
"Elemental Resistance vs PDPS skills is now capped at 50%.
This change only affects classes that can change their elemental damage (Annihilator and Kage). Their damage vs 70 resistance will limited to 50 just like if someone had 70 pierce." - Jordan, Patch v40

 Kage Guide by Foxnoturno

My opinion about the class:

I haven't played it enough (mainly in pvp, I started building this class on a whim ) to give a clear opinion on it, however I really appreciate it, I expected a more classic physical DPS (with short and medium range skills).I also have the feeling that it's not THE new class that will end up top kill at each TW, causing monstrous damage (or I need to review my equipment because it's not crazy)

In terms of stances, in terms of teamplay, the water stance is probably the best (disarmament, reduced g-heal, magic attack buff, reduction of ice resistance and move speed etc etc.) in addition to a Time Manipulator / Conjurer.

The stance fire is also not bad, the major part of the skills are magical but the p-dmg skills are double / triple hit. I'll see it with a DK or a Mecha Ares (or both)

Nature stance should be playable (not all players think of filling their nature resistances in addition to the brand system allowing to obtain side effects (stun, damage in addition, silence).

Lightning stance seems to me to be the annoying stance, various tp, stun, a triple atk buff that can be fun with the double atk buff of the zumi.

 

So, what's your opinion/suggestion ?

 

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Fake Kage Player

Edited by Luxdrayn
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This class is nice since you can bp the boss with some elemental weakness for pve and maybe for pvp

And I'm looking forward maybe there will be a guide about this class 

And also I'm hoping for a str & int set and weapon for this class just like the DE

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11 minutes ago, COmetkun99 said:

This class is nice since you can be the boss with some elemental weakness for pve and maybe for pvp

And I'm looking forward maybe there will be a guide about this class 

And also I'm hoping for a str & int set and weapon for this class just like the DE

Mmh, yeah an str-int set could be great but you can still pay it with a str  set or an int set and add crit dmg or m-crit dmg  etc on it, about the weapon, I haven't tested the holy skill ( "Ninjutsu Flash StepCaster jumps 20 meters forward, increasing their Move SPD +30% for 5 secs. (Cooldown time: 10 secs) ") but it's kinda great to back up, the lv95 daggers have been changed, but I am using the lv100 atm.

I'm not good enough to make a guide, but I hope someone will  give it a try :v

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I think the problem many of the reworked classes have are that they give less incentive to play them than zerker or gm as they excel when maxed out rather than while being used for progress, I'd like to see one of these being made again someday.

Most notable for Kage in my opinion is it's single target control. Water Style: Pool Noodle Disarm has a 7 sec duration and 5 sec cooldown, making it able to be kept up permanently when not removed. Also Nature Release offers a 4 sec mundane and 4 sec stun which makes for a neat opening but due to immunity you want to switch to Water Release if you wan to keep up cc.

Each mode has also a recovery skill that all have their own cooldown with 2 being good, one being a double edged sword and one being unfavourable. To balance these traits out Kage has just half decent damage, making it reliant on being with other people to be played efficiently.

In contrary to what Fire Release implies to be, Wind Release is the actual PvE release for party play as it functions like a rather stiff AoJ, making targets take more dmg but it only works when there is someone else for the mob to target when going invisible for Mark of Storms. Annihilator is already versatile for breaking elemental BP and can fit in pdps compositions alright. Fire Release pales in comparison to that as it brings nothing to the table for the party aside from it‘s own damage.

Lightning Release implies to be the bursty mode but due to the nature of Kage it‘s damage is still unfavourable compared to the mostly used damage classes. It has however a little mass stun and a single target stun that ignores immunity, making it a bit of an annoyance.

That being said I‘d like to suggest to optimize Fire Release for solo play or give it a different purpose. Also I had in mind to split the mode change skill into 4 skills similar to arch elementalist in trade for having less recovery to make it possible to run wild with the abilities of the 4 releases, creating combos out of skills from different releases while not having effects that directly enhance each other but I don't think it's likely to happen with this class.

I can‘t say much for Lightning and Water Release as Wind Release stood out to me and Fire Release looks meh in my opinion. Overall this class looks rather like a support class to me, helping out with quirky abilities but at best only Water Release and maybe Nature Release are able to hold their own ground. I appreciate the effort that is put into the rework tho, keep up the good work Jordan o/

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7 hours ago, Frost Knight said:

I think the problem many of the reworked classes have are that they give less incentive to play them than zerker or gm as they excel when maxed out rather than while being used for progress, I'd like to see one of these being made again someday.

Most notable for Kage in my opinion is it's single target control. Water Style: Pool Noodle Disarm has a 7 sec duration and 5 sec cooldown, making it able to be kept up permanently when not removed. Also Nature Release offers a 4 sec mundane and 4 sec stun which makes for a neat opening but due to immunity you want to switch to Water Release if you wan to keep up cc.

Each mode has also a recovery skill that all have their own cooldown with 2 being good, one being a double edged sword and one being unfavourable. To balance these traits out Kage has just half decent damage, making it reliant on being with other people to be played efficiently.

In contrary to what Fire Release implies to be, Wind Release is the actual PvE release for party play as it functions like a rather stiff AoJ, making targets take more dmg but it only works when there is someone else for the mob to target when going invisible for Mark of Storms. Annihilator is already versatile for breaking elemental BP and can fit in pdps compositions alright. Fire Release pales in comparison to that as it brings nothing to the table for the party aside from it‘s own damage.

Lightning Release implies to be the bursty mode but due to the nature of Kage it‘s damage is still unfavourable compared to the mostly used damage classes. It has however a little mass stun and a single target stun that ignores immunity, making it a bit of an annoyance.

That being said I‘d like to suggest to optimize Fire Release for solo play or give it a different purpose. Also I had in mind to split the mode change skill into 4 skills similar to arch elementalist in trade for having less recovery to make it possible to run wild with the abilities of the 4 releases, creating combos out of skills from different releases while not having effects that directly enhance each other but I don't think it's likely to happen with this class.

I can‘t say much for Lightning and Water Release as Wind Release stood out to me and Fire Release looks meh in my opinion. Overall this class looks rather like a support class to me, helping out with quirky abilities but at best only Water Release and maybe Nature Release are able to hold their own ground. I appreciate the effort that is put into the rework tho, keep up the good work Jordan o/

When i designed Kage I wanted it to stand out and be unique and different. Unlike Arch-Elementalist which plays off the back of being able to combo skills across elements the idea with Kage was that you kinda pick 1 element and thats it. I also didn't design this class for the masses to use, I know you might find this decision odd but the way I design games is I make something for everyone to play but also things that are not exclusive but more aimed at niche players. The reason I don't nerf GM or nerf other "over powered" or "easy" classes is because there are many un-skilled players or players who like playing very simple classes. So its only natural that a majority of players flock to this. You can see this in my work, Arch-Elementalist, Blade Master, Rakshasa and Kage just to name a few (Glacier Knight being the oddity of class where everyone flocked to even though I made it weird). These classes are designed from my point of view of an idea that was cool and I could make it work where X-Legend couldn't and each of these classes have people who enjoy playing it (Even Rakshasa).

The releases signify different elements of the game:

Fire: is suppose to be a more damage oriented build where your suppose to be only for yourself and no one else, this is why its covered in Triple Hits and Double Hits and all its buffs are very self oriented like +range or +mattack.

Lighting: is suppose to be about speed, which is why its got attack speed, movement speed, lots of dashing and teleports.

Ice/Water: is suppose to be a damage/supporter designed to be a class like the original master fencer where it can do damage but not as much as say GM or Mecha but it has supportive elements to compensate for the lesser damage.

Wind: was the final element designed and up until the day I began making it had no idea what to do with it other than I wanted it to include the classic thief class ability of being able to stealth. I wanted to still have elements of casting similar to water as the original plan was 2 none casters and 2 casters. However, in my eyes it came out one of the more successful forms in terms of damage.

To be honest coming up with class ideas is kinda hard after the rework that took place over a year ago as it was very taxing and even now I get nightmares on making skills even for bosses as it reminds me of spending 3 months remaking every awaken class alone so honeslty I wouldn't count on many more future reworks. I do want to create my own class from scratch one day but thats not in my current mind at the moment of what to do with it.

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6 hours ago, Jordan said:

The reason I don't nerf GM or nerf other "over powered" or "easy" classes is because there are many un-skilled players or players who like playing very simple classes. So its only natural that a majority of players flock to this. You can see this in my work, Arch-Elementalist, Blade Master, Rakshasa and Kage just to name a few (Glacier Knight being the oddity of class where everyone flocked to even though I made it weird). These classes are designed from my point of view of an idea that was cool and I could make it work where X-Legend couldn't and each of these classes have people who enjoy playing it (Even Rakshasa).

I‘m just judging classes in terms of usability here, I don‘t try to tell you that you may not have fun designing your classes and how to handle things, especially when I can enjoy all this stuff for paying nothing (sure this server is being kept alive by donors but I don‘t wanna dive too deep into that). However that doesn‘t come without me being biased as I enjoy classes here the way they are not inteded to be played. Paladin for example is meant to be well rounded but you can gear it towards raw dps, sneak to players using smoke bomb, suprise them and lock them down in a roughly 5 second kill window, making it sort of a mdps assasin (I hope awaken mace for pala buffs the dps skills at least to equal strength of lv 95 mace as I already use that one over the lv 100 mace :c) or Holy Blade being meant as a hybrid dps is one of the burstiest classes when it comes to auto hits with also having a dot rounding up it‘s dmg vs players.

As for the classes in question I agree with you in terms of Arch-Elementalist and Raksha as they are not very versatile in their usage however Blade Master is very rewarding to master (you see what I did there) as it is one of the top picks for pdps compositions and can do well in 1v1 when not bursted or controlled to death. Glacier Knight is a very well rounded healer, giving your party a good amount of damage reduction and stats increase while being very tanky as well as fast by itself and it has a mass debuff removal similar to the Sage so it‘s not hard for me to see why it‘s so popular. What I‘m trying to say is a good reason for the popularity of classes like GM and GK is that you have access to actually strong abilities and not necessarily because they are easy.

6 hours ago, Jordan said:

When i designed Kage I wanted it to stand out and be unique and different. Unlike Arch-Elementalist which plays off the back of being able to combo skills across elements the idea with Kage was that you kinda pick 1 element and thats it.

I see where you want to get with that and there is a good potential in designing Kage that way but I feel like aside from Water Release it could appreciate some tweaks here and there like Fire Release being damage oriented yet it can‘t make it to the level of Berserker, Mecha Ares, Blade Acrobat, etc as well as only having Humble Meditation as recovery that happens to have use when having duskblaze guitar equipped and autohitting a mob with it. Also Nature‘s Bonus A could have a couple more seconds to make Wind Release fulfill it‘s party role better.

6 hours ago, Jordan said:

To be honest coming up with class ideas is kinda hard after the rework that took place over a year ago as it was very taxing and even now I get nightmares on making skills even for bosses as it reminds me of spending 3 months remaking every awaken class alone so honeslty I wouldn't count on many more future reworks. I do want to create my own class from scratch one day but thats not in my current mind at the moment of what to do with it.

At the end of the day it is your thing what you do with your work, all I‘m doing here is giving my 2 cents about it.

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1 hour ago, Frost Knight said:

 

Don't worry I know you're giving your opinion and I meant no malice with my response I was just explaining why classes come out how they do from my end as I never really have been asked or have explained it before.

I will look into tweaking some classes that are weaker but currently my focus is this upcoming patch so I wouldn't expect it this patch. Although I do plan to revert Assassin changes from the previous patch when I have a moment. As for mace I will try and make it nice to use but no promises

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