Whippers and their Arkana pulls

[GoddessSand]

Okay, just read from Uninformed the WH being compared to the mele classes SWs, DEs, and CBs, and then put in the group of tank classes consisting of 3 different classes one being a WH and the other not not specified. For the sake of understanding correctly I am going to say that the WHs, DEs, and ??? CBs? are the tanks. So, while the Mele classes consist of all those in the tank category, the SW is the only Mele class not considered a tank class. Unless I am wrong and it's really the PU that is considered the 3rd tank not the CB, but either way people are looking at the tank as if it should be an exact copy of the other 3 tanks as well as a copy of the 4 other mele classes. The WH has it's good points and bad points and people shouldn't be comparing abilities of one class to the abilities of another. Just because the PU has the strongest atks, doesn't mean the WH should have those same abilities. Just because the DE has the best tanking ability doesn't mean the WH should be on that same exact level with the same exact buffs or debuffs. The WH is it's own class and it was created to do something other players can't, no other player can pull a group of other players into one location instead of being spread out. Do you know how OP that ability is to a team? You pull all the other players into one location and basically everybody else just needs to dive in with their AOE skills to kill an entire team at once. Because those pulls come with stuns/disables and the Ch-acc/acc to pull that off against every and all player to the WH that built their character right, means that all other players have to do is keep the enemy team from leaving and here's how. 

First WHs pulls large groups of players and they are stunned at once. SWs come in and have their own AOE skill flare. SE drops a trap that slows players down from leaving said area and hits them with an atk that is increased the more people in the trap. The PUs have their insane atks that they could just aoe atk the group with insane damage. If players survive this grouping they can still easily be picked off one by one as each person targets each player keeping them from either countering atks, healing, allowing the ME to heal everybody, and so on. Just need to focus on certain players in the group that need to be taken down before they are allowed to do anything, including heal.

Because the WH could potentially have a zero miss pull and stun with the acc/ch-acc of the pull skills, then the values of the acc/ch-acc should be nerfed for players who rely on their eva or ch-eva for their defenses. Those who rely on eva and ch-eva should be harder or have greater chances of skills missing them. Those who rely on void and ch-resist don't need the eva and ch-eva, like the WH and DE, get damage done to them reduced. So, when a player is able to 100% land an attack on the SEs, SWs, and PUs they really get to deal a lot of damage. Because the WH will never miss a pull or a stun on any player that doesn't rely eva/ch-eva the added acc/ch-acc doesn't effect them as well as the damage that the WH deals against them will be reduced. However, if the WH chooses to build an acc character, they will more likely never miss a pull on characters reliant on eva because those pulls give them the added acc to over compensate any eva a player has. That would be a reason to nerf the acc on those skills for those players to have a chance to avoid being pulled. Players who are ch-eva reliant, more than eva, will easily get pulled by a acc or ch-acc WH and the only chance that player has to get away is to hope that the stun or disable doesn't kick in by their reliant on ch-eva. The problem is that the Ch-acc built WH will not only pull the Ch-eva character because the lack of eva they have to stop it, but but they will also get stunned/disabled too because that added ch-acc from those skills over compensate for that player's ch-eva.

The question and problem people face is that why does the WH get so much acc/ch-acc that nobody could block the pull and stun or have such a low probability to do so? Sure there are WHs that focus more on dealing higher damage than increasing their acc/ch-acc, even though the increase would do them better in pvp, but those who are highly focused on PvP will create theirs so that pulls and stuns work over DPSing and rely on the rest of the pt to DPS the group of enemies together so that they can CC like they should.

 

[Uninformed]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 12:22 AM, Versteckt said:

You really live up to your name, let's go.

"Now lets look at the complete package

Of the mele units, which class is the only one not to have a cleanse? that's the WH

the other 3 mele classes have speed boosts the WH has a speed debuff (making acc on pulls more important)

of the 3 "tank" classes the wh has the worst defense buff

of the 3 "tank classes" is the only one without a self heal skill"

These 4 points are refuted with just one remark, whipper has the mildest debuff while using her buffs than ALL of these other classes, for a CB or DE make a tank role they basically reduce their dmg potential to 0, Whipper loses only movespeed and that it still doesn't affect her so much, because she can use bike and ignore this debuff or use the movespeed buff of its mech form, so in the end it does not cost ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for she get the following

4500 Crit-VOID
730 DEF
3600 VOID
4950 in all CH-Resists
750 Crit-EVA.

Those are too strong buffs for a class that needs to give up of very little of her status when it activates them, and are buffs that have an eternity of duration and have an extremely low cooldown because one of these buffs has only 5 SECONDS time window to abuse, because it have 35 sec duration and has 40 sec cd, and the other one has a duration of 30 sec and has 45 sec of cd, she has THE SMALLEST WINDOW TIME between buffs to be abused between buffs duration and cd of all classes.

The other classes that have defensive buffs that do not cause any kind of debuff like Sentinel for example receive the following

5000 EVA
2200 VOID
2000 Crit-EVA.
100 DEF

And this buff has a time window of 20 SECONDS where the SE is vulnerable.

In the end WH can use their buffs and while they are active she can cause MUCH MORE DAMAGE than a CB or an DE could cause when activating their defensive buffs, while this she has a stunlock much, but really much bigger than the respective ones classes. These Whipper buffs only would be fair if she had 0 dmg potential when need to use them just like the DE and the CB, or if her stuns got heavy nerfs, but lose only 26 movespeed to get this? not! there isn't a way this be fair at all.

In relation to the other points there is nothing worth my time to comment after all is everything bullshit, since I started playing this game I didn't find a DPS class that can kill a tank while they use their buffs, being that in the case of WH the same manages to tank and still have damage enough to kill any squishy class during her stunlock.

OK to your points WH yes "only losses move speed but they cannot switch to DPS in an instant like DE and CB so them having no DPS is only while they are attacked, not exactly a hardship

Evasion buffs mean things miss you meaning you get no damage not reduced

the main whipper buff is 30 seconds not 35 so that's 15 seconds cool down while the WH is vulnerable and with slow speed does not get to kite out the back like an SE or SW PU has perma cacoon 

again the advantage the DE and CB have is they can atr anytime switch to HIGH DPS the WH does not have this option.

[Venom]

On 5/22/2019 at 5:37 PM, mrburns said:

nerf se traps.........wait they did already now they suck

What is a trap?

[DrApple]

Just a thought but can we limit the amount of times you can be pulled ? Because there is NO counter play in PVP vs whipper chain pulling people. Not really touching the whipper class its self but everyone tbh. Maybe make it a limit of 2 or 3 pulls someone can be pulled back to back.

[Megatron]

1st. even with acc/ ch acc buff on pull + max acc random + max uniq acc jewel rank2 wh still miss on pulling SE and SW especially when they got medic eva /ch eva buff with them not to mention medic and sw can cleanse stuns and debuff on their team mates .

2nd. without stun on hook skill wh can die fast since other class can just stun the wh that pull them + add nasty debuff + use damage buff like miss misery /firing squad / frenzy / photon traps etc to kill the wh in few seconds or stun the wh and run arround fooling arround kill the wh as they please or waiting till wh buff off then finish the wh ..this happens on cap 59..maybe this is their hidden intention by asking nerf..as mele class without speed what can wh do if wh pull always missed ? being fooled arround by other classes speed ? without being able to get closer wh chance of winning is big zero against other classes who got speed buff!

3rd. wh can only be a real threat when they got medic acc/ch acc buff and numerous WHs on battle field but this can only be done by certain faction that got tons active max gear medics and WH's..as for the other faction having very active op medic is like a dream !

so my point here is nerfing wh or any other classes only benefiting certain faction with tons active max gear medic..medic buffs and short cd heals is abomination ,,so the one that kill you after being pulled by wh is dps class that hide behind whippers cos wh must sacrifice all red jewel and random stats tobe ACC meaning they got not enough damage to kill as fast as other classes..and I'm sure most lvl 65 got 2 set gear so stop crying cos wh can only kill fast with the help of zerg and medics buff you wont die by just by the pull alone

[Jade]

@DrApple No there isn't really a way to implement a game mechanic to check for when you were last pulled and set a timer or anything of the like to prevent a new pull. This would be code base oriented and this isn't possible for us. The only way to limit pulls in any way is using the system of Cooldowns. Which, in a 1V1 sure if the CD was set so there was some sort of delay or gap between 1 pull and the next, but let's look at when there is 2 WH there. You can't test for a pull and act on this information.

 

[DrApple]

4 hours ago, Jade said:

@DrApple No there isn't really a way to implement a game mechanic to check for when you were last pulled and set a timer or anything of the like to prevent a new pull. This would be code base oriented and this isn't possible for us. The only way to limit pulls in any way is using the system of Cooldowns. Which, in a 1V1 sure if the CD was set so there was some sort of delay or gap between 1 pull and the next, but let's look at when there is 2 WH there. You can't test for a pull and act on this information.

 

yea it was a long shot, was just wondering if even possible. Tbh whipper just need to be nerffed 90% of one faction is mostly whippers XD

[GoddessSand]

On 6/24/2019 at 10:06 AM, Megatron said:

1st. even with acc/ ch acc buff on pull + max acc random + max uniq acc jewel rank2 wh still miss on pulling SE and SW especially when they got medic eva /ch eva buff with them not to mention medic and sw can cleanse stuns and debuff on their team mates .

Are you discounting the idea of a WH having buffs from their ME? If one side gets ME buffs, so does the other. The buffs for the ME ch-eva/eva is less than the buff they give for Acc/Ch-acc, so the opposing side that is relying on the Acc/Ch-acc will win out over the side with the ch-eva/eva. But you are talking about ME case scenarios in which both sides should account for ME buffs, if you neglect the ME buffs then no the WH doesn't miss on pulling SE's and SWs if they are built with acc in mind, they will also always disable/stun the SE and SW(if they focused on ch-acc build).

Just because a ME or SW can cleanse a debuff, it doesn't mean we in all cases can. If we are in the middle of a stun lock rota from a WH, that's 17 seconds where the ME can't heal or clease anybody and there are players that die in less time than 17 seconds without ME support. For the SW, again we can't just clease any debuff if we can't use skills, just because we can doesn't me we can in all cases. The ME can clease players in Arkana, SW has to be in Mech to clench and then we still have to be able to use skills to do that.

 

 

On 6/24/2019 at 10:06 AM, Megatron said:

2nd. without stun on hook skill wh can die fast since other class can just stun the wh that pull them + add nasty debuff + use damage buff like miss misery /firing squad / frenzy / photon traps etc to kill the wh in few seconds or stun the wh and run arround fooling arround kill the wh as they please or waiting till wh buff off then finish the wh ..this happens on cap 59..maybe this is their hidden intention by asking nerf..as mele class without speed what can wh do if wh pull always missed ? being fooled arround by other classes speed ? without being able to get closer wh chance of winning is big zero against other classes who got speed buff!

Nobody is talking about removing stun, just reduce or remove ch-acc/acc increase. Ch-acc can be more appropriate than Acc, because only the SW relies on ch-eva and like I feel no player should get more ch-acc to break through one of the only methods the SW has for defense. Others have a much longer def buff than the SW and does give other players the upper hand especially if the SW is stunned for 17 seconds 7 seconds longer than their buff last and more likely 10 seconds longer from the second they are attacked as the SW doesn't get hit often enough the second they buff. If the SW does get hit the second they buff most of the time the buff gets canceled because lag between computers and server cancels it, it happens all the time. I also can't run far enough fast enough to escape a WH's pull.

 

On 6/24/2019 at 10:06 AM, Megatron said:

3rd. wh can only be a real threat when they got medic acc/ch acc buff and numerous WHs on battle field but this can only be done by certain faction that got tons active max gear medics and WH's..as for the other faction having very active op medic is like a dream !

Wrong, WH's are a real threat without a ME. Put a WH on a team with the right players and the WH can play CC on an entire team. Mind you 17 seconds is long enough of a stun rotation and if they keep players next to them, same team SWs can come in and help with CC and even atk some of the more powerful as well as easier to kill players(like other SWs). I don't see a lot of WHs on the FK faction during my play time and see more WHs on RG side. Yes, both sides have WHs, but again they aren't always on during my gaming time.

 

On 6/24/2019 at 10:06 AM, Megatron said:

so my point here is nerfing wh or any other classes only benefiting certain faction with tons active max gear medic..medic buffs and short cd heals is abomination ,,so the one that kill you after being pulled by wh is dps class that hide behind whippers cos wh must sacrifice all red jewel and random stats tobe ACC meaning they got not enough damage to kill as fast as other classes..and I'm sure most lvl 65 got 2 set gear so stop crying cos wh can only kill fast with the help of zerg and medics buff you wont die by just by the pull alone

They may try nerfing some skills, but I doubt it's that simple and I am sure a reduction in one area might be increased in another so to still allow that character to be playable. I've heard of some players wanting to nerf the SW to a point that the SW has no def by them saying the SW needs to have a max ch-eva of 15k, which is basically saying to everybody hey look free kill. I hope they do take into account medic support when altering any character and not just look at the character alone. As for most lvl 65 players having 2 gear sets, maybe the ones you keep facing off against do but it's not like there's a post asking for a raise of hands for what level is your character and how many gear sets do you have. I had 2 gear sets back in lvl 59 and it really wasn't that hard to make 2 sets as I leveled up to 65, because all I had to do was join bgs(which players aren't doing so they struggle with it).

[Norleras]

Since this hasn't received any responses as of late, this post is closed to avoid further Necro Posts.