Nyet

Erenia / Zenas prices

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Wanted to open this discussion regarding the price changes with c25/28 equipment & blue souls etc.

As someone that often opens erenia boxes in order to get glacerus' manes / draco claws', it was already borderline impossible to make profit / break even with erenia box openings, but this change in price is absolutely ridiculous.

I understand that there needed to be some way to reduce gold flow, but to reduce certain items like this is definitely not a way forward.

This pretty much eliminates a way of lower level players getting perfection stones / certain equipment without making a ridiculous loss on what they're paying, it would be different if the rates for equipment etc. were increased.

To combat this I would suggest either changing crystal of balance to x5 in the boxes and completely removing Silk or Intact Orichalcum since they're completely useless and can be obtained via farming, alternatively increasing the rates on equipment / erenia horn / wings etc. should be added.

Also not reducing the profit from fernon but directly reducing erenia / zenas is also just absurd, as someone that already has gold I'm not hugely effected by either raid, I simply open the boxes for perfection stones, but to allow people that spam however many fernon raids with a family with the possibility of getting 250kk+ with ease and potentially 1kkk+ in some hours is just dumb, they're already rich and will stay richer based off this.

This update seemingly just increases the disparity between lower levels and higher levels to an even greater degree than it is right now, don't get me wrong I accept and understand that there were major issues with gold injections into the economy but directly affecting raid viability doesn't seem like a good solution to this.

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In the end opening raid boxes is gambling and sometimes you make profit with a lot of equipment or something like the horn and sometimes you just don't. That's how gambling works tho

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5 minutes ago, Nyxia said:

In the end opening raid boxes is gambling and sometimes you make profit with a lot of equipment or something like the horn and sometimes you just don't. That's how gambling works tho

Before the reduction in prices of equipment I opened about 400 boxes, I lost over 300m and only got 300 glacerus' manes which got me from 95~98 perfection, it's pretty much impossible now to not lose unperceivable amounts of gold just trying to perfect an sp now. 

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That's some very unlucky rng then. Most of the time I just break even with the equipment and still having manes and claws o: And I buy a lot of boxes too.

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4 minutes ago, Nyxia said:

That's some very unlucky rng then. Most of the time I just break even with the equipment and still having manes and claws o: And I buy a lot of boxes too.

Yea, I'm not expecting to always profit / break even, more often than not before the patch I would lose about 100-200kk on average in about 300-400 boxes, now it's easy to lose way more gold and the boxes haven't, most likely won't ever reduce in price to 1.8~2kk and there's no improvement to the items you receive, just seems a bit ridiculous to me.

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This may happen yea, but we should still wait for how it's actually going to balance itself out and hope on better rng for you :P

 

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4 minutes ago, Nyxia said:

This may happen yea, but we should still wait for how it's actually going to balance itself out and hope on better rng for you :P

 

I don't think it's going to balance anything tbh the boxes will stay at a high price just the things inside them are trash and I will never have good RNG :( 

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Theres a whole picture here not just "how to get myself from A -> B". You just have to bare with us and give us time to teeth through the changes to find a balance that suits all. Every single complaint is coming from a situation based on tunnel vision and that's not how we do things here.

We didn't do any of these changes lightly and the fact peoples only argument to return to us is about the gold sellers goes to show how many people really don't understand the changes.

I've explained the decisions on both the price changes and the Trade Limit I'd prefer it if everyone just go on with things.

Economy changes are never fixed over night.

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2 hours ago, Bash said:

Theres a whole picture here not just "how to get myself from A -> B". You just have to bare with us and give us time to teeth through the changes to find a balance that suits all. Every single complaint is coming from a situation based on tunnel vision and that's not how we do things here.

We didn't do any of these changes lightly and the fact peoples only argument to return to us is about the gold sellers goes to show how many people really don't understand the changes.

I've explained the decisions on both the price changes and the Trade Limit I'd prefer it if everyone just go on with things.

Economy changes are never fixed over night.

I'm aware of the bigger issue, but even as a short term fix this doesn't seem to benefit anyone really, the boxes are still as high as ever, in fact everything is ridiculously high in bazaar.

If you want to really fix the economy some items should be injected into the economy via bazaar to try and fix their price.

On top of that I don't think I'm having tunnel vision, I personally don't need the profit from the boxes, I have enough gold I just want the perfection stones, but for lower level c30 players who may want to perfect their sp etc. it will take extremely long to do so and it will be economically trash, the margin to make profit just isn't there.

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1 minute ago, Nyet said:

I'm aware of the bigger issue, but even as a short term fix this doesn't seem to benefit anyone really, the boxes are still as high as ever, in fact everything is ridiculously high in bazaar.

If you want to really fix the economy some items should be injected into the economy via bazaar to try and fix their price.

On top of that I don't think I'm having tunnel vision, I personally don't need the profit from the boxes, I have enough gold I just want the perfection stones, but for lower level c30 players who may want to perfect their sp etc. it will take extremely long to do so and it will be economically trash, the margin to make profit just isn't there.

I think I've made it clear to you before that my replies are always based at everyone. Even though I quote you, I speak to everyone as a whole. So the "Tunnel Vision" comment was directed towards the obvious concerns everyone seems to have which is "How do I get from A -> B" without realised there is a C, D, E, F, G etc

I understand your concern but it's teething issues atm and if we need to inject more items into the game to help the economy then so be it. But we can't just do it 24 hours after a patch we have to analyze.

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Just now, Bash said:

I think I've made it clear to you before that my replies are always based at everyone. Even though I quote you, I speak to everyone as a whole. So the "Tunnel Vision" comment was directed towards the obvious concerns everyone seems to have which is "How do I get from A -> B" without realised there is a C, D, E, F, G etc

I understand your concern but it's teething issues atm and if we need to inject more items into the game to help the economy then so be it. But we can't just do it 24 hours after a patch we have to analyze.

Sure I understand, but I think it should definitely be looked at as an option, I used the example before the server went down as a result of the gold duping that abysall essences were beyond overpriced, they're now even higher than that rate.

Erenia boxes are more expensive, it's simply a consumer supplier cycle, supplies are low at the moment but people still want them so the prices are kind of irrelevant, but as a result everything will go up in price permanently, even if just marginally it's not good for any economy.

I agree it would be best to wait for the time-being though and just see how it plays out, but I can't see anything at all reducing in price to lower than before the gold dupe since now the first person who listed an item decided the price for it.

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It's high right now though due to the fact that the NB was wiped, people are trying to manipulate the market. For now we're just gonna wait and if anything is needed we will act on it. Remember we're doing this for the best interest of the server, we didn't just wake up and go "Hey! Let's ruin everyones day". Very counter productive given I'm apparently all for the money right?

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If the prices are as high as you're saying then:
1. Don't buy and raid by yourself.
2. Farm unknown land?

However, I think the issue with the price change was more in mobbing, since it wasn't really rewarding compared to raids with 2 characters. Now if you do the changes mentioned above, it'd be even worse ratio, and no one would actually mob.

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6 minutes ago, Bash said:

It's high right now though due to the fact that the NB was wiped, people are trying to manipulate the market. For now we're just gonna wait and if anything is needed we will act on it. Remember we're doing this for the best interest of the server, we didn't just wake up and go "Hey! Let's ruin everyones day". Very counter productive given I'm apparently all for the money right?

Okay well as long as you're monitoring it to see if something should be done that's all I really want to happen, just from my POV I don't see the economy stabilising for a long time if ever.

Also, some people don't really know how to give objective criticism so instead just flame you, which is what it is I'm sure you're used to it, I gain no benefit from saying you're money hungry or a trash GM and it doesn't even show that way realistically, I just don't want to see an economy become like UK official where everything was inflated for the simple fact that people bought everything in bulk and decided the prices as they see fit.

2 minutes ago, Azna said:

If the prices are as high as you're saying then:
1. Don't buy and raid by yourself.
2. Farm unknown land?

However, I think the issue with the price change was more in mobbing, since it wasn't really rewarding compared to raids with 2 characters. Now if you do the changes mentioned above, it'd be even worse ratio, and no one would actually mob.

People will always mob, it's how you get xp. It purely depends on your preference to make gold. Also pretty sure everyone is aware that Unknown land is a joke to try farm given where it's placed

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14 minutes ago, Nyet said:

Okay well as long as you're monitoring it to see if something should be done that's all I really want to happen, just from my POV I don't see the economy stabilising for a long time if ever.

Also, some people don't really know how to give objective criticism so instead just flame you, which is what it is I'm sure you're used to it, I gain no benefit from saying you're money hungry or a trash GM and it doesn't even show that way realistically, I just don't want to see an economy become like UK official where everything was inflated for the simple fact that people bought everything in bulk and decided the prices as they see fit.

People will always mob, it's how you get xp. It purely depends on your preference to make gold. Also pretty sure everyone is aware that Unknown land is a joke to try farm given where it's placed

If mobbing is my preference on making gold, why isn't buying boxes your preference? Then you may as well just do the raids yourself? Find yourself a Fernon team (you actually get more manes and claws from there)? Second of all, You do realize that the box price will drop itself if it's not "benefiting" / creating huge loss to the ones who open

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6 minutes ago, Nyet said:

Okay well as long as you're monitoring it to see if something should be done that's all I really want to happen, just from my POV I don't see the economy stabilising for a long time if ever.

Also, some people don't really know how to give objective criticism so instead just flame you, which is what it is I'm sure you're used to it, I gain no benefit from saying you're money hungry or a trash GM and it doesn't even show that way realistically, I just don't want to see an economy become like UK official where everything was inflated for the simple fact that people bought everything in bulk and decided the prices as they see fit.

People will always mob, it's how you get xp. It purely depends on your preference to make gold. Also pretty sure everyone is aware that Unknown land is a joke to try farm given where it's placed

Then blame the people who ruined the economy. I don't get why we're the ones getting the earful here when in all fairness this wouldn't have happened if players would just play the game for once instead of trying to make a quick buck.

Soon as someone quits the game they "cash out". It's fucking annoying, these are the people ruining the game not us. We're trying to fix it.

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2 minutes ago, Azna said:

If mobbing is my preference on making gold, why isn't buying boxes your preference? Then you may as well just do the raids yourself? Find yourself a Fernon team (you actually get more manes and claws from there)? Second of all, You do realize that the box price will drop itself if it's not "benefiting" / creating huge loss to the ones who open

Well it won't because people are constantly buying them, and I'd rather not speak on your preference of making gold since you've already made enough profit as a result of selling to a gold duper even with the 80% gold loss.

I don't use boxes for profit, I buy VGN to make gold, pretty sure that's common knowledge at this point.

1 minute ago, Bash said:

Then blame the people who ruined the economy. I don't get why we're the ones getting the earful here when in all fairness this wouldn't have happened if players would just play the game for once instead of trying to make a quick buck.

Soon as someone quits the game they "cash out". It's fucking annoying, these are the people ruining the game not us. We're trying to fix it.

I think the reason you're receiving blame is because people feel they're all taking punishment for something gold dupers / sellers did when they already got their money and left. It's hard to see the bigger picture and if this will reduce the chances of it happening in the future when you come back after however many days of being unable to play to now see you've lost 20% of your gold, you can't trade anything, you have to do a redundant questline etc. it's just tough to come back to that and see it as rewarding.

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Just now, Nyet said:

Well it won't because people are constantly buying them, and I'd rather not speak on your preference of making gold since you've already made enough profit as a result of selling to a gold duper even with the 80% gold loss.

I don't use boxes for profit, I buy VGN to make gold, pretty sure that's common knowledge at this point.

I think the reason you're receiving blame is because people feel they're all taking punishment for something gold dupers / sellers did when they already got their money and left. It's hard to see the bigger picture and if this will reduce the chances of it happening in the future when you come back after however many days of being unable to play to now see you've lost 20% of your gold, you can't trade anything, you have to do a redundant questline etc. it's just tough to come back to that and see it as rewarding.

It could have been worse, you could have lost 4 weeks worth of work (that's how long they were doing this for). Still this system was in place, you have to understand I've slept only 20 hours in 6 fucking days I've done everything I can to save this server and the way some of you are going on I am really close ot throwing in the towel and telling you all to fuck off.

I can take criticism but to question my actions against corruption because boo fucking hoo you gotta do an old quest line. Seriously no wonder GF doesn't give a fuck anymore about this game.

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21 minutes ago, Nyet said:

Well it won't because people are constantly buying them, and I'd rather not speak on your preference of making gold since you've already made enough profit as a result of selling to a gold duper even with the 80% gold loss.

I don't use boxes for profit, I buy VGN to make gold, pretty sure that's common knowledge at this point.

I think the reason you're receiving blame is because people feel they're all taking punishment for something gold dupers / sellers did when they already got their money and left. It's hard to see the bigger picture and if this will reduce the chances of it happening in the future when you come back after however many days of being unable to play to now see you've lost 20% of your gold, you can't trade anything, you have to do a redundant questline etc. it's just tough to come back to that and see it as rewarding.

As always a Graduate family member can't do simple maths and realize that 80% + 20% equals 100%. However, If people are "constantly buying them" Then they're still worth it, and I see no issue there.

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21 minutes ago, Bash said:

It could have been worse, you could have lost 4 weeks worth of work (that's how long they were doing this for). Still this system was in place, you have to understand I've slept only 20 hours in 6 fucking days I've done everything I can to save this server and the way some of you are going on I am really close ot throwing in the towel and telling you all to fuck off.

I can take criticism but to question my actions against corruption because boo fucking hoo you gotta do an old quest line. Seriously no wonder GF doesn't give a fuck anymore about this game.

I mean I didn't really come here to argue about the execution of what you've done, nor to flame you.

I simply wanted to explain my opinion on the current financial hit the market has taken.

People are going to trash talk because they're mad it's an online mentality not just a server / game based one, I don't really want to bother speaking on that, I've got to know you relatively well through some issues I've gone through and you've helped with and often you've gone above and beyond to help with things so it's just a matter of anger and lack of perspective. From my point of view, you're far from money hungry and care about the longevity and player base more than it comes across as to some people.

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Just now, Nyet said:

I mean I didn't really come here to argue about the execution of what you've done, nor to flame you.

I simply wanted to explain my opinion on the current financial hit the market has taken.

People are going to trash talk because they're mad it's an online mentality not just a server / game based one, I don't really want to bother speaking on that, I've got to know you relatively well through some issues I've gone through and you've helped with and often you've gone above and beyond to help with things so it's just a matter of anger and lack of perspective.

I'm mainly venting to you, so don't take what I am saying as directed to you.

I'll figure a solution out for this for Monday I'm sure.

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8 minutes ago, Bash said:

I'm mainly venting to you, so don't take what I am saying as directed to you.

I'll figure a solution out for this for Monday I'm sure.

Don't worry I wasn't taking it personally.

I don't doubt you'll figure something out, as I said I just wanted to check it was looked at.

You should take a break tho n enjoy the weekend for real

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First of all I want to make clear that I'm just a player experienced with all the ways of farming in this server (from pts to fernon) so everyhing will be based on my own experince doing pve. I know that some prices are really high and I undestand that these changes were made to mitigate this issue and maybe that will work, but I just want to suggest/discuss other options.

The main issue with erenia/zenas raids are that you get a really high profit when u sell them (like 80kk/h with 2 accs) comparing to how much u make if you decide to open them (30kk/h max? and like 30 claws/manes?). So why not reverse the changes that were made to c25/8 gear (or even improve a bit the loot from boxes) but make erenia/zenas raidboxes not tradeable? This is how it works on fernon and it seems to be working pretty fine. This would also encourage (well, or force tbh) to farm by their own if they want to perfect their sps (either doing erenia/zenas/fernon raids of going to UL) and would solve the problem of the overpiced boxes.

Regarding to shining blue souls, I also think that this change should be reversed. We were able to make around 55kk/h (more or less, including that you level someone for cash) and this doesnt really sound like a crazy way to make money (for example, in erenia you could make 80kk/h). With the souls at 160k/u this amount is reduced by 5kk more or less and even if its not so much money, we have to consider that the souls were the 'secure' way to make moeny in 6.2/6.1; because you wont be able to find someone to boost for cash always, or probabling you won't loot avengers each hour.

And well this is a bit off-topic maybe, but I think the fernon raid should be changed a bit to make it more profitable. It's the hardest raid of the game by far (to make decent amount of raids/h i mean) but it doesnt feel as rewarding as it should be (IMO, ofc). So why not increase the amount of claws/manes you obtain (for example) to make it slightly more profitable (as you have to 'invest' a good amount of money, to be well geared for this raid)

Again, I'm not saying that these changes were done to 'fuck' players and I know that everyhing was decided as the best way to solve the problem and it might be the best option, and not what i've just said. 

 

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1 hour ago, hollowknight said:

First of all I want to make clear that I'm just a player experienced with all the ways of farming in this server (from pts to fernon) so everyhing will be based on my own experince doing pve. I know that some prices are really high and I undestand that these changes were made to mitigate this issue and maybe that will work, but I just want to suggest/discuss other options.

The main issue with erenia/zenas raids are that you get a really high profit when u sell them (like 80kk/h with 2 accs) comparing to how much u make if you decide to open them (30kk/h max? and like 30 claws/manes?). So why not reverse the changes that were made to c25/8 gear (or even improve a bit the loot from boxes) but make erenia/zenas raidboxes not tradeable? This is how it works on fernon and it seems to be working pretty fine. This would also encourage (well, or force tbh) to farm by their own if they want to perfect their sps (either doing erenia/zenas/fernon raids of going to UL) and would solve the problem of the overpiced boxes.

Regarding to shining blue souls, I also think that this change should be reversed. We were able to make around 55kk/h (more or less, including that you level someone for cash) and this doesnt really sound like a crazy way to make money (for example, in erenia you could make 80kk/h). With the souls at 160k/u this amount is reduced by 5kk more or less and even if its not so much money, we have to consider that the souls were the 'secure' way to make moeny in 6.2/6.1; because you wont be able to find someone to boost for cash always, or probabling you won't loot avengers each hour.

And well this is a bit off-topic maybe, but I think the fernon raid should be changed a bit to make it more profitable. It's the hardest raid of the game by far (to make decent amount of raids/h i mean) but it doesnt feel as rewarding as it should be (IMO, ofc). So why not increase the amount of claws/manes you obtain (for example) to make it slightly more profitable (as you have to 'invest' a good amount of money, to be well geared for this raid)

Again, I'm not saying that these changes were done to 'fuck' players and I know that everyhing was decided as the best way to solve the problem and it might be the best option, and not what i've just said. 

 

+1 :)

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12 hours ago, hollowknight said:

First of all I want to make clear that I'm just a player experienced with all the ways of farming in this server (from pts to fernon) so everyhing will be based on my own experince doing pve. I know that some prices are really high and I undestand that these changes were made to mitigate this issue and maybe that will work, but I just want to suggest/discuss other options.

The main issue with erenia/zenas raids are that you get a really high profit when u sell them (like 80kk/h with 2 accs) comparing to how much u make if you decide to open them (30kk/h max? and like 30 claws/manes?). So why not reverse the changes that were made to c25/8 gear (or even improve a bit the loot from boxes) but make erenia/zenas raidboxes not tradeable? This is how it works on fernon and it seems to be working pretty fine. This would also encourage (well, or force tbh) to farm by their own if they want to perfect their sps (either doing erenia/zenas/fernon raids of going to UL) and would solve the problem of the overpiced boxes.

Regarding to shining blue souls, I also think that this change should be reversed. We were able to make around 55kk/h (more or less, including that you level someone for cash) and this doesnt really sound like a crazy way to make money (for example, in erenia you could make 80kk/h). With the souls at 160k/u this amount is reduced by 5kk more or less and even if its not so much money, we have to consider that the souls were the 'secure' way to make moeny in 6.2/6.1; because you wont be able to find someone to boost for cash always, or probabling you won't loot avengers each hour.

And well this is a bit off-topic maybe, but I think the fernon raid should be changed a bit to make it more profitable. It's the hardest raid of the game by far (to make decent amount of raids/h i mean) but it doesnt feel as rewarding as it should be (IMO, ofc). So why not increase the amount of claws/manes you obtain (for example) to make it slightly more profitable (as you have to 'invest' a good amount of money, to be well geared for this raid)

Again, I'm not saying that these changes were done to 'fuck' players and I know that everyhing was decided as the best way to solve the problem and it might be the best option, and not what i've just said. 

 

Making Erenia/Zenas untradeable is further disallowing improvement for new players to the game.

It is not plausible for a c30 to try farm Unknown Land for perfection stones, they will just die constantly and not gain anything, regardless of the time they put in, unless Unknown Land is an anti PvP zone this is simply not going to be logical.

Also as for Fernon raids, I can't see how any complaints can be made on the amount of gold the raid provides, main items from the raids sell from 100kk~800kk.

This will minimum require 10 hours of erenia raids to hit the peak of a Fernon raid loot pool. Yes, it may be low chance to receive Fernon shoes, however if it wasn't viable to do fernon raids people wouldn't be spamming them at every possible opportunity, to say it doesn't seem rewarding is simply because you aren't getting the loot you want, if you got Fernon shoes every hour you did the raid it wouldn't be a complaint, it comes down to RNG realistically and certainly doesn't need to be buffed further.

On top of which a base NPC price was added for equipment that was going for borderline no gold prior to the update, which allows even more gold from a very easy raid realistically, it's the most spam-able with minimal effort. I don't see how there's any room for complaint in those raids to be completely honest.

I agree with reversing back the price of Erenia/Zenas Equipment and also with Blue Souls, mobbing really isn't a ridiculously high income option, more of a side way of making gold if you don't want to raid or can't.

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