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Deathoniak

Content Suggestion 3

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Hello guys, i have an idea of creating a new system that will help the entire server players, while keeping long term content, and help new players to be able to reach older players while playing with them and cutting some issues that abuse the game mechanics like alts etc. Lemme know in the comments, if you think this is a good idea or not.

Since EE contents have been easy to get, and thus making content to get dry very fast, or also that guilds specifically help their guildies only, i was thinking this:

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Making a way to get new gear, whereby it takes atleast 1 week to finish a set of gears for a specific class, Giving players a choice on which class they want to gear first, and afterwards they can proceed to the second class. Since EE has so many classes, and is one of major reasons why players chose this game in the first place, because of diversity. It makes players make the server more active and gives time to the GMs also to have more time to make patches.

So thus a total of 40 classes, would take 40 weeks to finish all of them (which i know not everyone plays all , but it will take that amount of time), instead of making it into finishing all your gear within a few weeks then get bored doing nothing in the game. I know it sounds like ''oh i have to grind a lot" but no, i have a suggestion for that to as follows:

The new dungeon types will be very easy unlike the past contents being too hard for new players to join on it, so it only benefited the older geared players to get their things done and then new players who do not have guilds or are not in big guilds are left with a hard grind that does not feel rewarding. The aim is to make new players and old players get together while doing easy dungeons together, and reach a specific set amount of gear. For example , Level 105 set & weapons.

This will in turn help newer players to get their gears and be able to join PvP, while still having to grind gold to get their forts + gems, so it just cuts the ''grind fest'' to get gears, then grind even more, to fort + gem it. Taking so much time while adding legendary achievements into it, makes new players not able to join or do PvP without having to grind for a long time to even be able to pose a challenge, As the current PvP requires you to be very optimal, otherwise you will just get killed.

So for example, a player can only get 1 Weapon, 1 Head Piece, 1 Body Piece, 1 Belt Piece, 1 Boot Piece, 1 Glove Piece per day, and the reset happens on maintenance. Therefore if they choose to gear a class like Berserker for example, They can get the gear done, in 1 week , but they cannot gear another class, Asura for example until another week. That adds 2 weeks to the game players to do their stuff, making the game active more.

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Currently on EE, players have to grind very hard to get their gears, and even if crafted Level 100 Gear is easy to get, there is not enough players doing it to even sell those sets or make them, because of the issue of Guildies only help their own guilds but not anyone outside, then be done with it. Thus it kills how other players can get their stuff and unable to even participate on PvP.

The point is to make old Content of EE like 70 S trials from 50~60 trials type of thing again, where it is easy but everyone gets gears. But again you may thing that it is just how EE works, but here is how i suggest to change it:

Use the arena queue system of EE

I remember back then in the old days of EE, people would ask to queue for arena to get their tokens done for their gears,

However here i don't want the queue system to go into arena pvp, but instead queue into dungeons

This way, people can queue with anyone in the server into a dungeon, and finish the dungeon, and if they get queued with new players, they have no choice to carry the new players.

So you may think, alts abuse/kicking people might be a thing.

Here is how you counter that:

When you queue into the dungeon, you have a NPC to teleport you into the dungeon so like a barrier (like a requirement), The NPC requires, you to finish a certain main quest line to be able to access to the other side, else they won't be able to.

But even with alts, the dungeon should be very beginner friendly so, people who do queue with alts will end up clearing it anyway.

BUT

People, will get queued randomly with other people like 3v3 arena. So there could be something like: (3 old player, 1 alt, 2 new players)

Therefore, the old players can help the 2 new players get their gears, But in the case scenario of where there is like : (6 new players), the dungeon should be easy enough to do it or require minimal gears.

Remember the point is to join up players to be on the same level so they can interact in end game PvP easier, thus making it more active, while keeping the dungeon long-term so keeping the server alive.

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Speaking of kicking people or leaving dungeons

Kicking people for no definite reason from the dungeon should be considered bannable. And people leaving the dungeon for no reason, should get the ''defector'' penalty to 30 minutes, therefore they get punished if they want to be toxic or dicks to others. Thus resulting in their own loss.

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The daily should only be doable once you access via the NPC, so therefore if someone DCs, they can queue again and finish their dungeon, or if others do leave again, they can just requeue and finish the daily which UNLIKE currently on EE, if you disconnect and lose your run, it basically means you lose your daily thing you planned. So this will also counter that for players who dc often

This idea basically keeps old and new players grind for new content together and enjoy new patches together, unlike the current EE, where new players are stuck on an old grind to even reach new content, and by the time they reach new content, it is dead already, so they have it hard to get their things done. It also affects PvP, as there is always old players, but less new players for a long term.

Being honest, from the new player infos i got, they are not happy with THAT amount of grind to even get to a certain point in the game. It does not feel rewarding at all to them, which is a negative thing.

If this is possible to do, players just have to grind gold to get forts + gems instead of hard grind for level, hard grind for forts, hard grind for gems, hard grind to do achievements. It cuts the non- rewarding hard grind, while maintaining a grind as a MMO should be.

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Summing it up, lets take it into an actual scenario:

>Content releases, New gear & Weapon

>Players queue in dungeons like they do for 3v3 (I believe kicking is not possible in 3v3 if that helps, reduce the kicking issue)

>All players around the game queue together, with multiple types, everyone benefits from getting a gear done in 1 week, Next week they do another class, thus enjoying all classes

>Dungeons are relatively easy, but kept in the long term, thus very new player friendly, remember this is not meant to be challenging content for old players, but to make the entire game more fun and active, To make things easier for the GMs, do not develop new maps for this, just use old maps which was left unused, This will ALSO, bring the very essence of EE lore, making players feel they are playing EE.

>Based on the release on this, the post patch of this will be more challenging, thus, every single player in the game, both old & new, get to accept a new challenge, unlike the current EE where only old players experience a challenge like GoP, but new players get tormented for even going there, which results in many quitting.

It is important to create equality between players, in this case,  PvP will benefit from becoming more active as well. And not become a super grind fest for people who do not really have time to play so much. It makes them play EE, but it also makes them feel relaxed and have fun with it. Since it is a long term, the content will always be done. And based on this many things can be changed.

We can still grind our gold, to fort & gem, but not grind so hard for the gears instead then grind even more. So most things stay the same, while making things not too easy, but also prolonging the game life in another way rather than making it more grindy to prolong content life.

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Finally yes, it may seem like this comes from FF14, and it is true, I played FF14  a lot and tried to assess what made the game successful from the 1.0 where it failed. This is where the game constantly grows and currently is the most active  MMO with very high player base.

I know some will say, EE & FF14 is different, but i thought hard about this as well because some things like queue system and defector on EE, is the same as on FF14, as well as the multiple class system where in both games you can change to any class, whenever you want.

In FF14, if you kicked a player for no reason, you will get reported, if you leave the dungeon for no reason, you are unable to queue for anything in the game for 30 min, which is like EE's queue arena system.

Make use of that system and change the whole way of EE, making it a less stressful grind fest game for new players, as well as fun for everyone to participate in every content possible, as well as PvP.

I have already suggested this to the GMs, but it will be quite a big work to get into the progress, of it, that is why i made this post to the community, so if you find this is a good and positive idea for the server as a whole, let know in the comments.

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Sorry for the long post, but thank you for reading, Enjoy ~

 

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Honestly, this idea is great. The grindfest is a huge reason a lot of new players are discouraged from playing EE. The dungeon queue system is an interesting concept. Games like Elsword (while still a grindfest) have a system like this for dungeons and generally, it works out well with balancing new players and geared players. I do think however that there should be a list of reasons on why a player can be kicked. For example, leeching and doing nothing while they just get carried. New players are undergeared, I know, but that doesn’t make them unable to contribute to a party in this sort of setup. The one class a week system seems really cool as well, as it will bring importance back to specific roles as people will absolutely NEED to choose different classes rather than just the meta dps classes that have been deemed “OP.”

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In queuing in this new dgn you need to be in a specific class in order to get the specific equipment for that class? So Sets are more class exclusive and weapons( just like 95 ones)

I like this idea where you cannot choose your party and it's completely random

BUT what IF you can open multiple accounts and finish it using yourself and what IF players queue and only afk since OTHERS will just carry them

There are many flaws in this but I like the idea hope it will be implemented but with some strict rules so that you can feel that you are really in a party not just full of alts like in 3v3 arena

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Just thought I would mention this:

 

This would like take 2 months to implement a system such of this not including any of the content that goes with it as it would require a lot of changes and a lot of trial and error and likely a lot of bugs that will come with it. I'm not saying it's not possible but in an honest case likely it's not worth the wait cause you're looking at about at minimum 3 months patch time.

 

You also need to remember how much this system would be abused and theres no way to stop this, you will have people leave, afk or disconnect which you cannot always blame and as this is PvE you cannot just go around banning people for doing this. Second of all alts, if people can solo the dungeon they will try their hardest to do it with alts, maybe putting alts in queue to pop it and then join with more alts afterwards or just leave when they're put with others.Thats just some of the abuse you could have not even diving in to people trolling people they don't like or once they're done whats the motivation to do the dungeon again while unlike trials and such they have the motivation of helping a guildie/friend where as this random system they might queue and get put with different people.

 

You also need to remember whats going to differentiate this to arena queues? after say 1 month whats the motivation to keep queuing for new players? Unless you start piling in gold or other cash shop items people generally aren't going to bother with it, which just isn't going to happen.

 

11 hours ago, Ratatta said:

The grindfest is a huge reason a lot of new players are discouraged from playing EE.

Practically the entire game is designed of being a grindfest, thats why over the years they've made maps like DD, VL and BTS. Every single patch I'm making changes to help new players, this upcoming patch has it's own section on the patch notes now for changes directed specifically at new players but you have to sit back and think when are we doing too much and are the players actually going to stick around once they complete their gear as many of the people who complain and quit are normally the people who play MMO's to complete them and not really to play them. This game requires a lot of time to get a character from nothing to finished as everything you do matters towards your character, leveling classes, achievements and even just gearing classes. There's just not really anyway to avoid it being a grindfest at this stage of the game without going back and making everything super easy which will intern have the effect of the game being able to "completed" too fast and causing people to have nothing left to do. Like just remember this, roughtly 5-10% of the server has completed all achievements, leveled all classes and have weapons and armor for each class. So everytime a player is bored, they can think ohh I don't have a Katana yet maybe I should go Awaken it (as an example). So there is no reason for even a veteran player to be bored as there is usually atleast something they can do to improve there character which is one of the ways to keep the veterans playing as if they cannot improve their character anymore all they have left to do is help others or PvP.

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I had a conversation with the topic creator on VGN discord and Jordan's opinion is quite much the same as mine - There are other ways to help new players without adding "artificial interaction" between old players and new players.

I know it looks like a grindfest for any untrained eye, but the game is on a really fair state of economy and growth scale.

Funnny mentioned that L95 trials should be made easier (removing the Purification debuff from bosses) and TK sets should have a bit of elemental resists, and I agree that it would heavily help the newcomers, but that's it.

Thanks for the topic @Vyzer, always good to see people trying to improve the server.

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I agree that we have to bring new players more close to the older players, but making a system to force they to work togheter wont work, specially because as Jordan said it will open a lot of oportunites to abuse.
Eden always have been a game who is not noob friendly, but I've been thinking about a suggestion I already made for a couple days ago: Removing the purification bonus in T95.
That's a buff that made T95 harder before people managed to get geared enough to solo it, but now there's no reason to have this buff since it's only holding new players. So if you remove the buff, it will be easier for new player to get some good gears on T95 and then join T100.
Now we can stop and think about two things:
Eden has never been a noob friendly game. Seems like new content always have been made to be done by people who is already geared with previous patch/cap itens.
But having a buff like purification can change this:
If Jordan removes this buff from T95 it will be easier for new player, even tho it was not that easy to do when they're released.
If Jordan creates a new buff (doesn't have to be the purification) for T105, it will be hard for us who are already geared to make the new trials when they're released.
So when we move to Lv110 dungeons/trials, Jordan can again create a new buff for Lv110 T and remove Lv105 buff, so it will be easier for new players.
I'm not sure if I'm explaning well, but my point is: Having a buff like purification means it's easy to nerf trials when they don't need to be as hard as they are, so new people will have a better time gearing, geting closer to geared players.

Also we can look at MoneyTeam members. You will only see they online when there's a possibility to a good PVP to happen.
If you make it harder to gear, making people  to basically wait till their gear a new class, they will be only playing the game when they have something to do, otherwise they're going to play ff, lol, apex, or whatever they want till they have something to do again on EE, and anyway they will eventually gear everything they want to play and leave the game again, only coming back when they can have a good PVP.
The answer for a good PVP is actually making easier for people to get stronger, while not just giving they a free pass to end game.

So for IMO having a buff like purification will be the answer for both to make the game more active and more noob friendly.
We will have a buff that makes trial difficult enough for geared people as the same time we will be making the old trials easier, so everyone is having a fair challenge.

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Here's my perspective as someone who also played XIV a ton; I hate dungeon queues. Quite simply, they encourage an attitude that is the opposite of what you are suggestion, they encourage a very detached, cliquey community, even moreso than what already exists, and eventually nobody feels like helping anyone. The only thing that kills a game faster is something that is also in XIV, which is a -real- parser (I know EE has a parser, but it's nowhere near as invasive or relevant as XIV's, when you hit endgame in XIV your talent level and ability to even get parties in the real progression raid content is judged solely on your unrealistic parses that you overkey with a party comp made up of some friends that accentuates your class's damage alone such as mdps with a ton of -ele resist and mob luring to artificially increase your damage. If you are not showing as within the top 90-95 percentile of all dps of all clearparties in all servers, you are considered bottom of the barrel trash in XIV, and I say that as a person who DID abuse this system because I was forced to, I was 98th percentile BLM in 2.0 and 94th heal/87th dps SCH in 3.0, in 3.0 I could barely get alexander parties because being better than 87% of all people in the game for DPS is not good enough in XIV).

Making XIV any form of "gold standard" of how to do endgame is just not a good idea, it's actually the largest thing the game does absolutely wrong, if the game had a decent endgame and slightly better collision detection/snap to position in combat (for lack of better terminology, basically the animation of monster skills has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you get hit, only if you were inside the "hitzone" when their cast completed, leading to immersion breaking garbage like getting hit from 2 screens away or on the flipside just running through a nuclear missile bombardment with no damage because you weren't in the aoe when the cast bar finished) nobody would be playing any game other than it.

Any form of automated system of party creation is doomed to eventually create a very disconnected community who only look at other players as robots that either fit their harsh gearlevel/damage requirements or are trash and not even worth speaking to.

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Hi @Jordan idk if I should post it here but anyways

I like the idea on the sff sets where you can get gold sets just by doing 0/10

What if you make something like that and change how we can get it like you get tokens in every boss by chance and exchange it so that the gold farming will not be abused or we get points in Everytime we finish the dgn Ang exchange it for a set

Since not everyone has the luxury to buy/craft higher lvl sets and not to be stuck using only lv90 tk set

And most players get stuck on what to do

Its a one way where the new people can enjoy farming a dgn and gain an appropriate set which can be used in obtaining higher lvl sets

It's just my opinion and feel free to tell me if it's wrong or not

Thanks and keep it up!

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The SFF sets where not be used just for bonus gold as they're worth more gold than regular blues. I have boosted the 90 TK set again for the future patch as I will continue to do when releasing new content that makes older content more obsolete. If people wanted a better set they could use the earned gold from this dungeon to craft the 98 Orange set.

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