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Reikan

Guild system - Member cap and more

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Hello, it's me, Sirocco.

I've made a topic a really long time ago about people AFK'ing in maps to generate gold, which was listened to. Thanks VGN, specially Jordan!

This time, i'm writing this topic to discuss something that has roots on the very heart of our veteran community: Salary. We have a member cap in TW's and GvGs (if I remember correctly, it's 50). I'll add some math on gold-generating here:

A level 100 character, with 3 territories, gets around 600g. That same character can be created and leveled up in a couple of days, if not a single day (with charms).

At the current moment, we can have 350 characters in a guild. Considering that a "big guild" has 50 real players, that's room for 300 gold-generating alts. That means, if all those alts are at least Lv100, that the server is getting 180k gold everyday from people logging alts and doing nothing. From a single guild. The number gets higher if you count all the territories involved and multiple guilds.

Now, you may tell me: "This is OK because PVP has costs like pots and pods, and those people won that right because they put effort on it!". 

All PVP costs can be covered for a week if you do Palace of Dreams in a single day. That's 1 hour of farming. Not only that, allowing people to exploit the system in order to generate gold has been an issue to the server growth for a really long time. Most of the lazy new players dream of joining a guild that grabs them free salary just so they can exploit like the veterans. It's not healthy for the server.

MY SUGGESTION: Lower the guild member cap to 100. 

___________________________________________________________________________

Now, after that. We all know how painful it is to level guilds and NPCs from guild towns up. It was made easier on gold thanks to VGN, but it's still really slow to level up buildings like Magic Pool or even Mine/Farm. 

If the member cap were to be changed, we would have even less motivation to level a guild up past 6. This is where my suggestion kicks in:

GUILD BUILDS

Yes, you read that correctly. I'm suggesting that each guild, past level 3 (the level for Guild Town) gain access to a couple of "Knowledge Points", quite much like the classes, in order to encourage people to level their guilds up. That helps the server with more NPCs and variety, not being gated by dead guilds or high taxes.

How would that work? 

Since this is not a feature in original Eden Eternal, that would probably need a gimmick to insert in the game. My initial idea, to make things easier, was to put new special NPC slots in the guild town (as you level the guild up), and make a store with permanent NPCs that we can plant in those slots, that would grant the guild, the passives they want. Quite much like our VGN Statues, but permanent. If it's possible to program a guild KP system, then that wouldn't be needed.

No, not more status

I'm not suggesting more P-ATK or that kind of stuff. This idea was more guild-oriented in the sense of economy and market, so the guild KPs could be something related to crafting itself. I have some suggestions, but that idea could be refined with the help of the staff, or the community. Some examples

- Passive: Longer NPCs (That would heavily help rare NPCs since they last for 3 days)

- Passive: Higher building EXP (Would help leveling stuff like Magic Pool)

- Passive: Higher fame gains from NPC activity (Would help leveling the guild itself)

- Passive: Higher NPC durability (For less need of repairing NPCs)

The NPCs could have multiple levels (with higher benefits), so the higher levels would be unlocked as you level up your guild. More NPCs with guild utility could be created (again, we would need the help of the staff or community with more suggestions).

Why would we add that? The guild system is perfect

I agree that the guild system is currently on a good state, but as I mentioned, we don't have any real motivation to level our guilds past 6, unless we want to exploit the salary system. These suggestions are a complement of my first suggestion, but would heavily improve our lifes on building guilds up. Trust me, being a guild leader, nothing makes it more boring than creating "rules" to force people into farming fame into oblivion just to get more room for guild recruits. That way, we would have clear benefits, more high level guilds with quality NPCs, less room for tax exploiting (since there would be more guilds offering the same service) and less room for "hey can you repair Guild X please" on peer.

 

That's all. Thanks if you read it until here. Goodbye! ~

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So you QQ cos you can't win a tw? 

What if the player can't farm palace since he/she has a limited time?

Donate? Invest more time? 

Not all players have time like you

Some people invest their time doing PvP or gearing themselves to maximize their time and not just do palace everyday

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32 minutes ago, COmetkun99 said:

So you QQ cos you can't win a tw? 

What if the player can't farm palace since he/she has a limited time?

Donate? Invest more time? 

Not all players have time like you

Some people invest their time doing PvP or gearing themselves to maximize their time and not just do palace everyday

I have a geared character, I had invites to join Memory for literally my entire guild. The reason why I declined is because I want a healthy server with competition and flourishing, natural guilds competing. 

If someone doesn't have time, there is racial crafting to invest. You can leave alts logged, collecting materials for selling Glyphs, Gems or anything like that. Most of my guildies that lack time to invest in dungeons, farm literally double my gold because they invest in Racial Crafting. In fact, it's far more efficient than just doing dungeons. 

Your excuse makes 0 sense.

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Salary. 

I think it's a bad idea. the server is to progress not to go back. Salary is a good reason to go to pvp wars within the game. You are free to do all the missions of the game for make the gold xD

 

if it were that way we also took out the gvg bags and took them out of the altar of gems. totally disagree.

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5 minutes ago, Kyurem said:

Salary. 

I think it's a bad idea. the server is to progress not to go back. Salary is a good reason to go to pvp wars within the game. You are free to do all the missions of the game for make the gold xD

 

if it were that way we also took out the gvg bags and took them out of the altar of gems. totally disagree.

I didn't ask to remove salary from the game, I just said that abusing alts to generate such a large amount of gold is abusive. Also, there is no "good reason" to go PVPing if everyone wants to be on the same side (the winning side) to abuse this "feature".

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4 minutes ago, Reikan said:

I didn't ask to remove salary from the game, I just said that abusing alts to generate such a large amount of gold is abusive. Also, there is no "good reason" to go PVPing if everyone wants to be on the same side (the winning side) to abuse this "feature".

Ten for sure that not everyone in the guild charges. There are 
some who use alts and that is not bad because it costs work to 
upload a character from 0.
it's like using different characters who abuse alts to raise racial and sell racial

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MY SUGGESTION: Lower the guild member cap to 100. 

 

We do not agree because we must progress not to go back. as you say,

the guild is difficult to level up because it is because the guilds must climb

pitifully with the help of all members, it is not so because not everyone should

be obliged to do so. What I propose is an increase in the experience of low levels.

there are already guilds lvl12 already dead-BM-GamerxGamer-Syndicate and others

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Just now, Kyurem said:

Ten for sure that not everyone in the guild charges. There are 
some who use alts and that is not bad because it costs work to 
upload a character from 0.
it's like using different characters who abuse alts to raise racial and sell racial

Nope, it's not. Leveling a character from 1 to 100 is entirely free (you don't need to gear it up), and it takes about 2 or 3 days.

Not only that, selling racial crafts isn't "abusing" anything, you're spending tools and creating a product that sells on the market, it depends on costumers to work. 

Alt abusing is literally gold generating, there is no such a reason for it to exist, as the game provides enough gold sources at the current state. Just look at how our market is working at the moment - we have about 2 ~ 3 players selling racial crafts in the entire server. 

If you agree that people deserve to have a free gold generation, why not change the daily reward into 5k gold for everyone? It makes as much sense as the idea of having 300 ALTs just for gold collecting

 

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No one have 300 ALTs XD

The maximum amount is 10 maybe and nope is not free 2-3 days as 
you say they don't have it all. What you are proposing I think is wrong.
and if people who sell racially abuse high when collecting 2-5
 alts increase your collection by 2-5 according to your alts. 
with that it already produces to sell to 5 people. instead of 
producing just for you. because it is free gold you only spend 
on ex material: 6,000g for materials when it 
produces 40,000g being only afk collecting with 5-6 pjs in just 1 day

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9 minutes ago, Kyurem said:

No one have 300 ALTs XD


The maximum amount is 10 maybe and nope is not free 2-3 days as 
you say they don't have it all. What you are proposing I think is wrong.
and if people who sell racially abuse high when collecting 2-5
 alts increase your collection by 2-5 according to your alts. 
with that it already produces to sell to 5 people. instead of 
producing just for you. because it is free gold you only spend 
on ex material: 6,000g for materials when it 
produces 40,000g being only afk collecting with 5-6 pjs in just 1 day

I leveled my alt to 100 in 2 days, and I was not even using charms. "The maximum amount is 10" you're not making real sense here. I'm talking about how much gold is generated to the server, and not about guild rules or how much each leader allows into their guilds. Most of the winning guilds have a 300+ member count and we all know that's not for real usage, we all know that people abuse alts to get more gold.

I won't argue about the racial craft part because you seem to lack knowledge about how market works, and how racial crafting in special works. If you think it's that easy and the profit margin is that huge, I'd recommend you to try investing your time into that. Spoilers: It won't be that easy.

I'll stop arguing with you here, since you are not making progress on the discussion. Ok, I get it, you won't like a change, but regardless of your opinion, the server needs less gold generating from idling, my suggestion is needed for the economy to stop inflating, and for long-term survivability in the market system. Less gold generation will mean more people producing stuff to sell, or selling runs, or even doing dungeons. It also means that we won't have full-geared players hoarding millions of gold from doing nothing, inflating prices just because they want something faster. It's healthier for the entire server, but most of the abusers won't ever agree with me.

That's why I'm not arguing with people that have such closed minds. Peace. :)

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I like the guild system suggestion would be a real cool why to improve and make guild more valued. The guild limit I like as well but with how the game currently is even if its at a limit of a 100 it wont change the people already abusing it and as well as how would you go about removing people in a guild with 100+ alts already? Honestly at this point its the community that's killing the game if anything with the way everyone keeps doing pvp lol instead of getting better and fighting with strats and it just turns into a numbers run sadly. 

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28 minutes ago, Reikan said:

I leveled my alt to 100 in 2 days, and I was not even using charms. "The maximum amount is 10" you're not making real sense here. I'm talking about how much gold is generated to the server, and not about guild rules or how much each leader allows into their guilds. Most of the winning guilds have a 300+ member count and we all know that's not for real usage, we all know that people abuse alts to get more gold.

I won't argue about the racial craft part because you seem to lack knowledge about how market works, and how racial crafting in special works. If you think it's that easy and the profit margin is that huge, I'd recommend you to try investing your time into that. Spoilers: It won't be that easy.

I'll stop arguing with you here, since you are not making progress on the discussion. Ok, I get it, you won't like a change, but regardless of your opinion, the server needs less gold generating from idling, my suggestion is needed for the economy to stop inflating, and for long-term survivability in the market system. Less gold generation will mean more people producing stuff to sell, or selling runs, or even doing dungeons. It also means that we won't have full-geared players hoarding millions of gold from doing nothing, inflating prices just because they want something faster. It's healthier for the entire server, but most of the abusers won't ever agree with me.

That's why I'm not arguing with people that have such closed minds. Peace. :)

 

Everything you say is based on assumptions. we are 50 players not alts or more if it were as easy as you say we would be 500 inside or more in the guild but as I show you that you are totally wrong.:  http://prntscr.com/onkmbd 

I won't argue about the racial craft part because you seem to lack knowledge about how market works, and how racial crafting in special works. If you think it's that easy and the profit margin is that huge, I'd recommend you to try investing your time into that. Spoilers: It won't be that easy."                    About this Typical no answer

Peace too bro😁

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1 hour ago, Kyurem said:

 

 

Everything you say is based on assumptions. we are 50 players not alts or more if it were as easy as you say we would be 500 inside or more in the guild but as I show you that you are totally wrong.:  http://prntscr.com/onkmbd 

I won't argue about the racial craft part because you seem to lack knowledge about how market works, and how racial crafting in special works. If you think it's that easy and the profit margin is that huge, I'd recommend you to try investing your time into that. Spoilers: It won't be that easy."                    About this Typical no answer

Peace too bro😁

You're showing me that the 100 member cap is viable, as I'm sure there might be an alt or another just for some reason (and not abusing). See, if no one abuses alts, 100 member cap is the ideal choice, and it would help avoiding such exploits to happen. Easy, huh?

1 hour ago, popzy said:

I like the guild system suggestion would be a real cool why to improve and make guild more valued. The guild limit I like as well but with how the game currently is even if its at a limit of a 100 it wont change the people already abusing it and as well as how would you go about removing people in a guild with 100+ alts already? Honestly at this point its the community that's killing the game if anything with the way everyone keeps doing pvp lol instead of getting better and fighting with strats and it just turns into a numbers run sadly. 

Hi Popz, and thanks for the input. Well, the fact that people are already abusing something isn't an excuse to allow it to happen forever, right?

As for guilds with 100+ alts, that's a good point. Maybe giving the players a week to sort between players and ALTs, using the Guild Order system? Example: People on 3 highest rankings in each guild have a guaranteed stay unless that number excceeds 100, then everyone else gets an automatic kick, including excceeding people on those 3 higher ranks. That would give time for guild leaders to sort between players and alts, and wouldn't give the staff work to worry about. It's up to the guild leaders who to keep inside, honestly.

I agree that the community is to blame about how they play PVP nowadays, but the fact that people go for numbers shouldn't be an excuse to allow such exploits to be open. If the member cap in PVP maps is 50, why allow more than 100 inside a guild? Even if you have 100 actual people in a guild, no one is obligated to put their alts in a guild, and 100 is already a really high number count for Eden standards.

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Me caring for Salary 
HczvsEJ.jpg

MoneyTeam already disband that guild got like 200+ players there not the points i can suggest limit for players to join in each guild in pvp, but there make no sense my boiii
You need to understand if u limit the guild there many guild than can be lost Guild Town , like dead inactives guild 
Celestial 
GxG
Offline
Blutmond
BlackMagic.

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1 hour ago, Mark20 said:

Me caring for Salary 
HczvsEJ.jpg

MoneyTeam already disband that guild got like 200+ players there not the points i can suggest limit for players to join in each guild in pvp, but there make no sense my boiii
You need to understand if u limit the guild there many guild than can be lost Guild Town , like dead inactives guild 
Celestial 
GxG
Offline
Blutmond
BlackMagic.

That is a good point that I didn't see. Maybe any change to that system to prevent such a huge loss for the server? xD

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1 hour ago, Kyurem said:

u are crazy 5 years with the same system and u are the 1 dont liqe it lmaooo

Main server doesn't get updates for years, if you like things that never change, you can leave and join them.

Change is good.

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8 hours ago, Kyurem said:

ur Change ls really bad lmao

The salary was intended to be that amount for each player, the community found out how to exploit it for their benefit, I didn't even suggest to remove the gold, just to fix it so there is no abuse. Explain to me why is it bad?

6 hours ago, kuruhara23 said:

or change the reward...remove gold reward..change to something else...like a (buff idk?)

We already have NCTW and GvG with other rewards, I don't think gold on the reward is an issue, it's just easy to exploit and that is the issue. I agree that we don't need gold from salary, but it doesn't hurt the economy if it gets harder to exploit.

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The game has always had the same method. I don't see it 
exploding like your say just because you don't win, you want 
to take away from those who do win

I don't see your solution, you only harm others. there is no 
exploit just ensure a totally false theory and I showed you the 
evidence In this game you need a lot of gold. uploading 100-120 
classes is charged 20,000g or more and there are 61 imaginate 
classes or do you want everyone to buy vgn and p2p? what is your 
solution? You are lacking ideas. In addition to uploading sets 
and weapons if you want to play all classes. the archives all sum 
in an immeasurable amount of gold


"or change the reward...remove gold reward..change to something else...like a (buff idk?)"
Really?? nah more buffs really? u can take it from gvg-Ga-pod etc u get 100% stat lmao

 

 

 
 
 
 

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i dont think theres any reason to change this system, Taking Memory as an example: theres 100 members and a few alts, theres a rule in the guild that alts cant do fame to farm, so.. hoje meu voto é não.

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