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Pluton

human berserker

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can u make a one hand axe , or put axe in 1 hand weapons , to make berserker useful again when you are human ? 

 

(and make somthing about DE .. nerf was too much , physical mode is dead and magical  don't make suficient damage)

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Hello Pluton,

I agree so much with u, we could develop several strategies in PVE (DS) with one hand axe.

But please can u remove the mecha please ? it deals 50 dmg/attack whereas we have only 200 hp max. And can u accelerate the pickaxe farming please ?

Cordialement.

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Agreed.
Knuckle Bracer made human zerker useless, even tho it was the best race for zerker. Most humans will just go with Club+Shield to keep a good damage while increasing survivability with blocks.
But this makes Human zerker bonus useless.

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I Agree
I think you should do something with other races, for example, 
anuran uses greatsword and it doesn't work for him either. if you 
see chibi-ursun-zumi, they have no use with greatsword and axe, so 
it would be good to add them in some osino class, they will only be 
useful in human-anuran

 

 

 

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The issue you guys are looking at here is Knuckle Bracer, and not Human Berserker. That would imply that Anuran Berserker should also have a buff, and some other classes+races (for bonus) should be wearing shields too.

Knuckle Bracer grants access to the most effective defensive stat of the game (block) for literally no drawback. Most of the classes that do use this shield, also pair it up with a high strenght, which nullifies its block debuff.

While the Bracer is overtuned, Apocalyptic Defender, in the other hand, is basically used by 2, maybe 4 classes, and considering they're all magic, they all struggle to reach 30%+ block, even without a block debuff. It also gives the player a passive slow, which is hard to deal with, without other classes MoveSPD buffs. Defender is fairly balanced, with concrete strenghts and visible drawbacks of using it. You make it up for DMG diference of a 2HD weapon user, but you don't get free capped defensive stats.

My suggestion would be:

Removing the +50% DMG on normal attacks to tune the Bracer with Apocalyptic Defender.

-35% block instead of -25%.

Change the +MoveSPD activation to +ACC to pair it with the Defender.

Yes, it's a huge nerf, and yes, most people will not like it, but it's something needed to tune it with 2HD weapon usage. It was made to "bring justice to 1HD weapon users", not ruin the experience to 2HD weapons.

Either nerf the Bracer, or give all the 2HD weapons a massive boost to parry, so people can cap it at 70% exactly like all P-DPS are capping block with the bracer.

Nerfing is the obvious solution here.

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2 hours ago, Reikan said:

The issue you guys are looking at here is Knuckle Bracer, and not Human Berserker. That would imply that Anuran Berserker should also have a buff, and some other classes+races (for bonus) should be wearing shields too.

Knuckle Bracer grants access to the most effective defensive stat of the game (block) for literally no drawback. Most of the classes that do use this shield, also pair it up with a high strenght, which nullifies its block debuff.

While the Bracer is overtuned, Apocalyptic Defender, in the other hand, is basically used by 2, maybe 4 classes, and considering they're all magic, they all struggle to reach 30%+ block, even without a block debuff. It also gives the player a passive slow, which is hard to deal with, without other classes MoveSPD buffs. Defender is fairly balanced, with concrete strenghts and visible drawbacks of using it. You make it up for DMG diference of a 2HD weapon user, but you don't get free capped defensive stats.

My suggestion would be:

Removing the +50% DMG on normal attacks to tune the Bracer with Apocalyptic Defender.

-35% block instead of -25%.

Change the +MoveSPD activation to +ACC to pair it with the Defender.

Yes, it's a huge nerf, and yes, most people will not like it, but it's something needed to tune it with 2HD weapon usage. It was made to "bring justice to 1HD weapon users", not ruin the experience to 2HD weapons.

Either nerf the Bracer, or give all the 2HD weapons a massive boost to parry, so people can cap it at 70% exactly like all P-DPS are capping block with the bracer.

Nerfing is the obvious solution here.

This is basically what I'd respond with too.

 

You guys are forgetting that the only reason this equipment exists is because without it 1HD varients of Beserker / other 1HD classes become unplayable to a large degree. So even if this equipment makes Beserker stronger with a 1HD sword why does that instantly mean we have to start buffing Axe users and Greatsword users. Claiming the class is useless as a Human is just a very close minded statement, not everything is about damage you know...

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or then the parry effect becomes the same as the blockage there will be more cases increase the damage of the weapons to 2 hand no need of nerve

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Or then the parry effect becomes the same as the blockage the will be more cases increase the damage of the weapons to 2 hand no need of nerf

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6 hours ago, Jordan said:

Claiming the class is useless as a Human is just a very close minded statement, not everything is about damage you know...

on a class like berzerker , how can you say that "not everything is about damage" ? this class is not a healers , and not a tank too, it just need to make dmg to kill faster enemies.. or we don't play the same game ?  

human with axe make less dmg than club + bracer or sword (same for anuran and great sword )  , but it's without any buff on club (or sword) .. the main idea is to make all race on an equal stat for this class .. if you compare dmg zumi VS human , zumi makes more dmg cose of his race (+15% club atk). so my idea his to create a 1H axe , or to make +15% atk on sword / club / great sword / axe for all race , but not for ursun,their fear is out of subject

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9 hours ago, Reikan said:

Removing the +50% DMG on normal attacks to tune the Bracer with Apocalyptic Defender.

 

This part, there is a common misconception in game due to things not being properly written. The Bracer states +50% Dmg to normal attacks. But it also increases Damage in skills too and that is also by 50% (nerfed from 100% on release)

If you remove the +50% Dmg on normal attacks, it would still be broken especially on PvP. Because it has +50% dmg on skills as well. Therefore i would suggest if balancing that part, it would be best to reduce /remove the skill damage part instead, as skills do massively more damage than normal attacks.

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28 minutes ago, Pluton said:

on a class like berzerker , how can you say that "not everything is about damage" ? this class is not a healers , and not a tank too, it just need to make dmg to kill faster enemies.. or we don't play the same game ?  

human with axe make less dmg than club + bracer or sword (same for anuran and great sword )  , but it's without any buff on club (or sword) .. the main idea is to make all race on an equal stat for this class .. if you compare dmg zumi VS human , zumi makes more dmg cose of his race (+15% club atk). so my idea his to create a 1H axe , or to make +15% atk on sword / club / great sword / axe for all race , but not for ursun,their fear is out of subject

I can say not everything is about what does the most damage because in this game you can play things you wanna play and not just whats the best. Like what do you expect from me? To buff Axe beserker until its stronger than Shield Club beserker? Then what? You have the Zumi players come here saying to buff Club Shield Beserker because does less damage. Thats just an endless cycle because UNLESS you remove everysingle build option from the game you will NEVER get 100% balance between the two. Axe beserker is great, its by far playable and with all the life steal you get from the Awaken Axe you can become as tanky as someone using a shield especially when it comes to PvE. I get it, it would be nice to have every race equal but you will never get that unless every race is a copy and paste of the next. The only reason these shield exsist in the first place was because before the shield exists every single race and every single 1HD weapon class was completely useless when it came to PVP (asside from Darkness Blade and that was only because it was so broken that it didn't matter). With 2 * 1hd weapons only relying on evasion to survive in a game that even with me doing everything in my power to make a useful stat still being useless you get a PvP situation where you just cannot survive at all. You have classes like BA that where super broken before the balance patch but yet where rarely if not never played because it just died too easy because you had no parry, no block and evasion was useless. This was the case for many years and once Awaken Classes where released and you got piles of ACC with everything you do or LCK then you just got to a point where 100% evasion did nothing.

And no you cannot make a 1HD version of a 2HD weapon, you have Axe's in the game and you have Sword's in the game.

 

22 minutes ago, Deathoniak said:

This part, there is a common misconception in game due to things not being properly written. The Bracer states +50% Dmg to normal attacks. But it also increases Damage in skills too and that is also by 50% (nerfed from 100% on release)

If you remove the +50% Dmg on normal attacks, it would still be broken especially on PvP. Because it has +50% dmg on skills as well. Therefore i would suggest if balancing that part, it would be best to reduce /remove the skill damage part instead, as skills do massively more damage than normal attacks.

Doesn't have 50% on skills at all and neither does the MDPS one. The numbers wheren't released on skill DMG. You'd also never balance the item without skill dmg as quite frankly the only way to match having a second weapon is skill dmg since pattack buffs will need to be altared on a per patch basis and any one who decideds to go for a -res/-def build instead of a +pattack build would lose a lot of dmg with just pattack.

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44 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Doesn't have 50% on skills at all and neither does the MDPS one. The numbers wheren't released on skill DMG. You'd also never balance the item without skill dmg as quite frankly the only way to match having a second weapon is skill dmg since pattack buffs will need to be altared on a per patch basis and any one who decideds to go for a -res/-def build instead of a +pattack build would lose a lot of dmg with just pattack.

You can test this in game easily, Mdps one is 30% skill dmg, if it is not as you stated then it is a bug. We have been testing things for more than 2 years in game, and things were as they have been stated, Here is a basic one. you can also use another weapon to match 1.99 xmdmg, but the damage still does not go from 3364 > 5123. Simple Light Split 0 Variation Dmg Test:0d79071ec2.jpg

4fffd3c545.jpg

15af4a0ddf.jpg

There is a basic Magic one test, and the numbers clearly show, even for a 1.90 to 1.99 it does not even come close to what the shield gives you in terms of damage. Can't even say it is the Matk increase, it is clearly it has + Dmg behind it. and the data is visible to everyone in game who have been doing it for years.

If you were unaware of this, then it is a bug because all the games meta changes, every builds throughout the past 2 years were based and done on that data. And the proof of it can be seen clearly by every players even for Physical. A double 1h x never made up for what the skill did. (330k Patk assassin is beaten by 230k patk shield assassin) Myself having gathered data for more than a month to check whether Patk is worth it or not. But the shield is just so strong, it won't be for another few levels until the Patk increase matches that +Dmg increase.

For the phy one, it might not be exactly 50% but it the increased damage data is very very close to 50%. So it was concluded to be 50% Dmg. It clearly does not affect only basic attacks by 50% but also skills if not close digits to 50% exactly. Mdps-Dmg Shield inc is exactly 30% currently based on the live game + the extra Matk and stats that affect the extra increase.

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28 minutes ago, Deathoniak said:

You can test this in game easily, Mdps one is 30% skill dmg, if it is not as you stated then it is a bug. We have been testing things for more than 2 years in game, and things were as they have been stated, Here is a basic one. you can also use another weapon to match 1.99 xmdmg, but the damage still does not go from 3364 > 5123. Simple Light Split 0 Variation Dmg Test:0d79071ec2.jpg

4fffd3c545.jpg

15af4a0ddf.jpg

There is a basic Magic one test, and the numbers clearly show, even for a 1.90 to 1.99 it does not even come close to what the shield gives you in terms of damage. Can't even say it is the Matk increase, it is clearly it has + Dmg behind it. and the data is visible to everyone in game who have been doing it for years.

If you were unaware of this, then it is a bug because all the games meta changes, every builds throughout the past 2 years were based and done on that data. And the proof of it can be seen clearly by every players even for Physical. A double 1h x never made up for what the skill did. (330k Patk assassin is beaten by 230k patk shield assassin) Myself having gathered data for more than a month to check whether Patk is worth it or not. But the shield is just so strong, it won't be for another few levels until the Patk increase matches that +Dmg increase.

For the phy one, it might not be exactly 50% but it the increased damage data is very very close to 50%. So it was concluded to be 50% Dmg. It clearly does not affect only basic attacks by 50% but also skills if not close digits to 50% exactly. Mdps-Dmg Shield inc is exactly 30% currently based on the live game + the extra Matk and stats that affect the extra increase.

Not even close to 50%, its 30% just like the mdps one. The basic attack damage is 50% yes but the skill dmg is 30%. There's no way you can test physical dmg because a weapon has RNG dmg on it and a skill has RNG dmg on it. Where as mdps only skills have RNG dmg which is why because of the way the Luminary skills where made it comes out as 100% the same as they where made wrong.

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6 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Not even close to 50%, its 30% just like the mdps one. The basic attack damage is 50% yes but the skill dmg is 30%. There's no way you can test physical dmg because a weapon has RNG dmg on it and a skill has RNG dmg on it. Where as mdps only skills have RNG dmg which is why because of the way the Luminary skills where made it comes out as 100% the same as they where made wrong.

In game however it is very more  than 30% for Phy, I know there is no way to test Physical. That is why we need huge amounts of data to come to the closest Dmg possible. It took me 1 month of data gathering to conclude that it is 50%. As healing is a 20% variation + / - from what the formula output states. It was the same for Dmg as well (unless it has been changed).

I would request to recheck that, because the output of the phy damage shield is nuts especially on PvE/Crystal capping. It is the very core reason how we manipulated the data it gives, to perform an output dmg on every single boss to be able to beat the new DS dgn as well as how the previously GoP record had been done.

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8 hours ago, Jordan said:

Claiming the class is useless as a Human is just a very close minded statement, not everything is about damage you know..

Not everything is about damage. That's exactly the reason Knuckle Bracers made it unfair for 2h weapons.
You added alot of damage with much more survivability.

While it's easy for a P-DPS to reach 50% block (that nullifys all damage) with knuckle bracer, have difficuty to be able to cap Parry that only cuts damage by half.

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Just now, Deathoniak said:

In game however it is very more  than 30% for Phy, I know there is no way to test Physical. That is why we need huge amounts of data to come to the closest Dmg possible. It took me 1 month of data gathering to conclude that it is 50%. As healing is a 20% variation + / - from what the formula output states. It was the same for Dmg as well (unless it has been changed).

I would request to recheck that, because the output of the phy damage shield is nuts especially on PvE. It is the very core reason how we manipulated the data it gives, to perform an output dmg on every single boss to be able to beat the new DS dgn as well as how the previously GoP record had been done.

I checked before my initial response cause I actually had forgotten how much it gave. It is exactly 30% no doubt about it and obviously because the formula behind both Magic DMG and Physical DMG are only about 50% the same, the rest is completely different. So measuring the two in terms of "if I wear xyz then I should get abc" it just doesn't work that way. Not even beginning to mention the formula behind Physical DMG auto attacks and Physical DMG skills are also two different calculations all together theres just no way to get a solid read on it unless you build a program with the exact same code behind it and spit in all the different ways to improve your damage.

Like example of a difference: MDPS has a flat -DMG value or +DMG value depending on the level difference which caps at 10 levels. So level 110 will deal 20% more dmg to a level 100, as well as a level 120 will deal 20% more dmg to a level 100.

However: PDPS factors it only into the defense reduction, so if you have 50% defense and the level 110 attacked a level 100 then you get -70% defense. Which slightly affects the output considering one of the first things you lose is defense -dmg.

 

Also healing is not just 20% variation of what the formula states as the old formula I had before isn't even correct. Now i've seen the actual formula its much more complicated than that. Healing has 2 formula's that pass between the person casting the spell and the person recieving the heal. Even beginning to explain how G-Heal and P-Heal work is just a road that's not worth going down at all as there's actually a 3rd hidden stat that is related to both G-Heal and P-Heal that isn't even referanced in game. You can get a rough guess based on [Random{Skill Value - Skill RNG, Skill Value + Skill RNG} ] * Crit (if Crit) but it's never going to be accurate. For example, there is a lot of static numbers in the healing formula like the players wisdom is always multiplied by 1.2, so if you have 1000 wis you actually have 1200, something that you'd never ever be able to guess from in game numbers alone.

 

All I will say to finish this as there is no point in discussing it further without flat out giving the formula's which I don't think is the greatest idea. No matter how much data you have, if it's not a static number like the MDPS skills you will always be wrong in some way or another. The formula's are much more complicated than this and also have external numbers influencing them that are unchangable. As the example even though your data said 50% i have it in plain text infront of my eyes that it's 30%.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Tuti said:

Not everything is about damage. That's exactly the reason Knuckle Bracers made it unfair for 2h weapons.
You added alot of damage with much more survivability.

While it's easy for a P-DPS to reach 50% block (that nullifys all damage) with knuckle bracer, have difficuty to be able to cap Parry that only cuts damage by half.

Yeh and at the time the shield was made classes with 1HD weapons where 100% unplayable and without being able to cap block differently for each weapon which isn't possible how else am I suppose to balance this? I put a negative block debuff of flat -35%. That means you need 85% block to be capped, If I make this more then classes that don't build STR will not be able to cap block. You can't just say XYZ is unfair because whats the alternative? I remove DMG to the point where you never get enough DMG out the shield to make it worth using, then you lose the posibillity to play 1HD classes in a PvP environment cause they can't survive. Your just missing the entire point of everything.

Nerfing a shield that makes beserker stronger cause Axe Beserker is weaker than Shield Club Beserker doesn't solve the problem. It just means Axe Beserker is the better varient and then you have people who play races that require 1HD weapons QQing that now they've drawn the short end of the stick and how it's unfair the only way they can match a Human is by going full glass cannon die in 1 hit build.

Alternatively buffing Axe Beserker doesn't work either cause the only way to truely buff it is increasing the P-ATK which then scales harder and then in a couple of patches you have the 1HD users again QQing they've got the short straw.

The best solution is what the original post suggested, make a 1HD axe, but it's not possible to make a 1HD Axe. The game isn't designed to have a 1HD Axe. If the shield needs more -Block then fine I can do that, if the shield needs more nerfs to its damage thats fine too, but you're forgetting that it doesn't matter. If someone gets to use a shield while DPS then they don't really care about 2HD weapons because it doesn't matter about damage when you're dead.

You have 2 solutions here, make the shield like every other shield where the only way you can make enough damage is going 2 1HD weapons which in turn means that those people cannot use the class in PvP anymore.

Second solution is you keep nerfing and buffing it each patch and have people roll the dice every patch to see what they get which trust me is very frustrating for people to deal with rather than "Ohh although my class says Axe user, it's more optimal for damage to use Club Shield".

There is nothing wrong with Axe/Greatsword Beserker, they're are still playable and they still deal damage.

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@Jordan

 theres two solutions: Buffing useless gears like Greatsword/Axe to be usefull or changing some racial passives. The whole game turns around Halfkin now cause theres no reason to play other races.. Im playing as Anura and theres only 3 good racial passives, the point with anura was the racial skills and its useless now too.. So how im supposed to play a zerk with greatsword if the GS is just bad? how can i compare with a 30% atk with sword (this one is way better than GS) with a halfkin? gonna be same with every class, anura/ursun/humans sucks against halfkins..

how can you say "There is nothing wrong with Axe/Greatsword Beserker, they're are still playable and they still deal damage." when the greatsword do less dmg cause of knucle bracer with nothuing to bonus? 5% double hit and 30% mv spd is worse than block % and more dmg

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Being an Anuran main myself, I can argue that the Axe is absurdly stronger compared to the Greatsword. In fact, Axe users get a godlike amount of lifesteal while us Anuran get nothing. Literally nothing, either we forfeit our racial bonus in favor of block (from Bracer), or we play a weapon that's weaker than both Club (don't even need to compare it to Zumi, just the club itself) and Axe. Still, I don't complain about it on forums due to knowing what I was getting myself into when I made my character.

BUT

Knuckle Bracer is overtuned. The idea that people won't be able to cap block is perfectly fine, Jordan. You're giving enough DMG to people so they can pair it up with 2HD weapons while still being able to survive. That means they should be using PoDs, pots and maybe further buffs from spouse / other classes, or even block certificates and trophies if they want more survivability. It would add an entire new feature and give us tangible drawbacks when we look at the DMG shield.

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the point being a anura is that all our racial are made for a cap lv50 game
 

Not to mention other racials like atk spd nin executioner (being atk spd one of the most useless attributes of the game today) -malice in thief (needless to say anything).

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1 minute ago, Pinkey said:

the point being a anura is that all our racial are made for a cap lv50 game.

Yes, Anura racials are indeed weaker than they should be, but no matter what you suggest here, it will take a huge amount of time to change. I did work around to play it efficiently, but it's still a long way to pefection.

Thing is, the entire issue regarding this post is not related to Human/Anura Berserker, but the Shield itself. It needs a nerf.

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