Chewbacco

Stats difference gloves SW

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Why do people prefer the gloves with the lesser stats? (the one with more min/max ATK instead of min/max Chakra)

To me it seems the gloves with Chakra ATK do more DPS or not?

On Gloves 1 I only see +10 ATK increase , and if you count up all % ATK increase of SW weapon,glove and bangle it only gives 19,36 extra min/max ATK if im correct.

The extra stats on Glove 1 seem not that great.

Even for a non-chakra build Glove 2 seems a better choice, is that right or I'm missing something?

Comparison:

===================================================

Glove 1
Min. ATK 10
Max.ATK 10
Def 2
Crit.Rate 100
Void Pierce 120
Ch-ACC 1%
Max HP 10
===================================================
Glove 2
Min. Ch-ATK 60  (+12 Enchant Min. Ch-ATK 94)
Max. Ch-ATK 90 (+12 Enchant Max. Ch-ATK 135)
Max SP 60

===================================================

Glove 1:

6009e5d735.jpeg

Gloves 2:

600a5cc034.jpeg

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I personally prefer it because of the additional Void Pierce and it depends on who you're up against

 

Edited by Norleras

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1 minute ago, Norleras said:

I personally prefer it because of the additional Void Pierce.

Hm I see, but would you still recommend it for chakra build? Thanks for reply.

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25 minutes ago, Norleras said:

It should be okay.  Though I haven't touched Pure Chakra build in a long time, so yeah

 

I may go for chakra % jewels to maximize chakra so any extra chakra helps I think.

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Honestly, I'd just assume use crit-atk jewels.  That way in the event you crit someone with high crit-void, your damage wouldn't take as much of a drop when crits land.  It is indeed possible for crits to inflict less damage than a non-crit.  Ch-atks crit too and are affected by the crit-atk value.  At least have it high enough so Shadow Strike can make up for enough difference in crit-atk vs crit-void.  

Edited by Norleras

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I don't try to use ch-atks because 1) I either go with crit atks, which the lower number of stats the greater the void piece like luna said as well as more crit rate. 2) the other is going with ch-acc, the lower number of stats have higher ch-acc.

I'm not sure ch-atks are really that effective if you crit against somebody with more crit void than your crit atks, but if you are going to go with ch-atks, you should find ways to limit your crit atks through very very low crit rate, which means don't use precision. Might want to consider if slaughter is worth using? I question the use of going full ch-atk because if you crit a player you could do less damage than the increase in ch-atk effort you made as well as less physical damage. Might want to consider mixing ch-atk increase and crit atk increase to be effective, also not use ch-atk % as I've heard they don't do what you might think they do and the best would be to use ch-atk as a SW.

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I have to experiment some to see what is effective balance, but for Ch-ATK % to be usefull it's best to be full chakra so you will see the most increase in ch-atk, they then will give more chakra then Ch-ATK jewels, but as you said it might not be wise to go full chakra so I have to consider what will be in balance. If I cannot go full chakra then it probably will be better to just use Crit-ATK jewels instead because it will be not the increase in Ch-ATK you expect from Ch-ATK %

If Ch-ATK is to low then Ch-ATK jewel might be better yeah. Thanks.

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Ch% is is kind of a lie. The number increase really doesn’t seem to mean much. It is better to go ch atk jewels. But another reason they all may be going crit/phys is because phys is so high with not as much defense stats against it while quite a bit of classes can reduce chakra damage to zero depending on buffs and builds 

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Why doesn't it mean much? The numbers are much higher then Ch-ATK jewels.

I'm playing in lvl 59 cap and have 1917-2808 Ch-ATK. Each Rare Rank 2 Ch-ATK % jewel gives min 32, max 47 Ch-ATK while a Rare Rank 2 Ch-ATK jewel only gives min 16, max 16

 

Jewels in all slots:

Rare Rank 2 Ch-ATK%
Min Ch-ATK 9x32=288
Max Ch-ATK 9x47=423

Rare Rank2 Ch-ATK
Min Ch-ATK 9x16= 144
Max Ch-ATK 9x16= 144

 

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5 hours ago, Chewbacco said:

Why doesn't it mean much? The numbers are much higher then Ch-ATK jewels.

I'm playing in lvl 59 cap and have 1917-2808 Ch-ATK. Each Rare Rank 2 Ch-ATK % jewel gives min 32, max 47 Ch-ATK while a Rare Rank 2 Ch-ATK jewel only gives min 16, max 16

 

Jewels in all slots:

Rare Rank 2 Ch-ATK%
Min Ch-ATK 9x32=288
Max Ch-ATK 9x47=423

Rare Rank2 Ch-ATK
Min Ch-ATK 9x16= 144
Max Ch-ATK 9x16= 144

 

Yes, your min and max do increase, but people are finding out that something is off on the ch-atk% jewels without really specifying what it isn't doing that the ch-atk jewels do. From what I've been told they don't increase with skills used, while the ch-atk jewels I guess do? What that means is I have to clue what the hell it means. However, you should notes that it doesn't matter how high your ch-atks are like daddy said. If a player has a ch-resist of 10k, they will take that ch-atk down to 0 unless you have ch-pierce, which most tanks are getting around 13k to 15k ch-resist. It doesn't matter if the attack is 500 or 5k, it resisted 100% of your ch-atk. So, any final resist that a player has that is above 10k will result in 0 atk in the end. The reason that they added ch-resistance pierce to shadow strike was because the tanks are way too tanky to the SW. They still can be, note I said can be not are, unless you build your character just right in both gears and skill tree. Now, I question certain players who can do things with their SW, especially if players are looking at others with SWs that have been banned at one time or another. If you want to survive a tank rotation you need to build your character and use it to do so, otherwise good luck.

The problem I face with taking on other players is the need to use my escape artist early on in my rotation; That is instead of waiting till close to the end of my rotation so that if I didn't kill the tank I have some protection till I can move again because I can survive players better. The reason I often have to use it early on rather than at the end, is that in mass pvp without it all it takes is one stun or disable from a player and you failed to kill and are good as dead.

I will add that if you are going to go with ch-atks, I recommend using Ch-pierce ancient jewels over any other jewels too.

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yeh its really hard to explain but as sand says. its more visual while the non% jewels actually increase your damage. its weird.

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I would find it interesting to know who discovered this and what his details are, because I find this strange and mysterious.

If Ch-ATK is so useless why would players still use Chakra accessories and Chakra skills? Only for PVE?

In PVP most players still use Chakra accesories and no tanking accesories with Ch resistance right? As far as I understood, most players do not use high Ch-resist accesories and with their Ch-resist from Suit they do not come close to very high Ch-resist unless they are a tank class such as defender or whipper with buffs.

Classes like Whipper that rely on Ch-ATK are they really useless then? Is it only Ch-ATK% jewels that do not work well or do other items that increase chakra with Ch-ATK% also not work properly? (Narak version 2 weapons, pet data chip ch-atk or other buffs)

I see most Whippers running with Narak version 2 weapons and probably also with Ch-ATK accesories.

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I remember in the big guilds like the ones I was in, Revered, Villains discovered the CH% jewels didn't work the way it seemed they might. But we are unsure how they really work since we learned they actually do something when we got the R3 jewels. (u could 1 hit soccer balls). The worst extent of figuring this out is Viva, pvelegends, (forget his name here) had all uni R2 CH% jewels and did significantly less dmg than Crit  and flat chakra jewels.

 

 people use the chakra accessories mainly for the CHACC tbh. also, alot of classes have pretty decent resists since the accessories have nice ch-resist. I know as medic have like 8-10k on all my resist wit just hero and if i wanna mix i can do 10-12k and max like 15-17k with restoration. most people use crit/chakra mix or all crit.

my DE is insane with resist lmao/ cb and wh can be pretty high as well without tryin.

 

people use narak wep skin cus its easier to obtain. also dot is unaffected by the chakra dmg

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There is nothing mysterious about it if you understand the formulas which are explained by limeox in some old posts and run the actual numbers shown on the simulator web page. Attack skills may have a multiplier of 100-500% and a % jewel just adds so much on top of that. Whereas the flat stat jewel gets the multiplication. The character screen implies a multiplier of 100% which in most cases is too low. Instead you got to compare values in the skill description.

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17 hours ago, Chewbacco said:

If Ch-ATK is so useless why would players still use Chakra accessories and Chakra skills? Only for PVE?

As an SW, Ch-atk is the way to deal against SE and other SW afaik. With normal atk, ya cant raise enough acc to offset those classes' high eva. On the other hand, chakra accessories gives high enough ch-acc to against those classes' ch-eva.

btw. Building pure ch-atk results in significantly low dps (both in pvp and pve) cuz raising ch-atk usually comes at the expense of crit-atk. Building pure crit is just as bad if not worse. I'm still trying to figure out how to balance ch-atk, crit-atk, and pvp-atk. Then again, I'm just a nub.

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Thanks all, I'm getting a better picture now.
 
@Daddy: hm 1 hit soccer balls with R3 jewels, that doesn't sound right and more like a bug with R3 jewels. Dot is indeed unaffected by Ch-ATK I figured, but Dot Reduction debuff helps increase Dot. Whippers got a skill called Blazing Wounds starting at lvl 46 that can increase Dots by up to 30% when maxed.

 

@Tropical: Interesting, but my skill description is hard to check because of the cap increase bug, all numbers are extremely high in the millions. Its starting at lvl 55 getting bugged and I noticed that at lvl 58 skill description is not bugged anymore, but as soon you going to lvl 59 the skill description is bugged again. I don't have any chars higher then 59 so dont know if the bug is still there at higher lvls. Since the skill description is bugged I mostly checked character screen only.

 

So if you had a skill with 500% Chakra multiplier and got 100 ch-atk from gear with 1 ch-atk% R2 jewel you would get 500 ch-atk from multiplier + 2,4 ch-atk from ch-atk% jewel = 502.4 ch-atk

 

While if you had a skill with 500% Chakra multiplier and got 100 ch-atk from gear with 1 ch-atk R2 jewel you would get 500 ch-atk from multiplier + (5x16=)80 ch-atk from multiplier = 580 ch-atk

 

This is correct and what you mean?

 

@Sicat: I'm also trying to figure out a good balance for several classes actually. When I played WOW years ago around 30% Crit was enough in raiding, but what Crit% and Crit-ATK% is enough in SB? Stat numbers seem to be much higher in SB.

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On 8/18/2019 at 1:30 PM, Chewbacco said:

I would find it interesting to know who discovered this and what his details are, because I find this strange and mysterious.

If Ch-ATK is so useless why would players still use Chakra accessories and Chakra skills? Only for PVE?

In PVP most players still use Chakra accesories and no tanking accesories with Ch resistance right? As far as I understood, most players do not use high Ch-resist accesories and with their Ch-resist from Suit they do not come close to very high Ch-resist unless they are a tank class such as defender or whipper with buffs.

Classes like Whipper that rely on Ch-ATK are they really useless then? Is it only Ch-ATK% jewels that do not work well or do other items that increase chakra with Ch-ATK% also not work properly? (Narak version 2 weapons, pet data chip ch-atk or other buffs)

I see most Whippers running with Narak version 2 weapons and probably also with Ch-ATK accesories.

Don't get me wrong. Ch-atks are just as viable as an option to use. If a player focused on just physical and crits, then they only get to deal 2 out of the 3 types of damage. If you balance your physical, are able to land a ch-atk, and have high enough crits. You can do so much more damage, than just physical and ch-atk or any of the other two. The purpose of the ch accessories are for more ch-acc, ch-eva, and ch-atk. The use of crits types stats for jewels and randoms is to balance out all attacks. Let me explain.

You have physical atk of 5000, a ch-atk of 300, and crit of 15k. Well, if you land a physical you could get a crit atk added to that, but with that low of a ch-atk you might be lucky to land that atk and if you don't land a ch-atk you won't crit on it either.

If you have physical atk of 5k, ch-atk 2.5k, and crit of 11.8k Then if you land a physical and ch-atk you could also crit on both the physical and ch-atk thus increasing your damage. You could very well still miss a physical or ch-atk as well as miss a crit, but landing all 3 and having the crit add to both means your damage just went up more than the above skill. Let's do the math here - 11k (going simple) added crit against 13k crit void you end up with 130% crit bonus. That 130% x 5k phsyical = 6.5k actual physical damage, if you also crit on your ch-atk you will have 130% x 2.5k =  3.25k of actual ch-atk damage.

Now, let's ignore crits and give you focus on physical and ch-atks, That mean you will probably have about 6k crit atk as a end level SW focusing on ch-atk. You might have increased your ch-atk stats to (being generous) 3k max and have physical at 7k. But you want to go up against a tank, that tank has crit void of 13k. With a crit atk of 6k against 13k crit void you are going to end up with a 80% crit bonus. So, your phsyical of 7k x 80% = 5.6k actual physical damage  and ch-atk of 3k x 80% = 2.4k actual ch damage. As you see going for ch-atks and ignoring criticals you have a chance of reducing your damage more than you gained since I doubt you can get more than 1k(being generous) of added ch damage.

Comparing the numbers
focused ch-atk 3k base stat - if you don't crit you do 3k damage, if you do crit you do 2.4k damage.
balanced crit and ch-atks base stat of 2.5k - if you don't crit you do 2.5k damage, if you do crit you do 3.25k damage.

Now this is overly simplified and there are so many other factors in this, but you can see that ignoring crit atks, could result in lower damage if you crit and you would want to try and reduce those chances of a crit atk by reducing your crit rate to as low as possible. At level 60+ best I could see me lowering my crit rate while boosting my ch-atk damage would be around 6.5k or 65% chance of getting a crit and not use precision. At 65%, that is still a good chance of crit atks landing more than not. You can't rely on just reducing crit atks because as you can see, you just reduce your damage output.

The best players to go full ch-atk focus are SEs since they don't have much ch-eva or ch-resist. Also, players who don't focus on using crit voids so you can do much higher damage. Though if you are going to use crit atks on SEs, you'll want higher crit rate to get past their crit eva. Topic of another discussion.

End result, ch-atks can be a method to choose over using crit atks, but understand your choice and how to best utilize it. Last thing you'll want to do though is crit against a high crit void player.

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Thanks for the explanation, I see that it takes a lot to get a good balance, more than I expected. I can only afford 1 set of gear so it becomes even harder to be prepared for any situation.

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On 8/19/2019 at 6:12 AM, Daddy said:

I remember in the big guilds like the ones I was in, Revered, Villains discovered the CH% jewels didn't work the way it seemed they might. But we are unsure how they really work since we learned they actually do something when we got the R3 jewels. (u could 1 hit soccer balls). The worst extent of figuring this out is Viva, pvelegends, (forget his name here) had all uni R2 CH% jewels and did significantly less dmg than Crit  and flat chakra jewels.

 

i had in asb  ch atk % r3 and all balls was oneshoot... or thats was the Ancient Void pierce jewels rank3...idont know..  over 7k void pierce was very nice xD 

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8 hours ago, Chewbacco said:

Thanks for the explanation, I see that it takes a lot to get a good balance, more than I expected. I can only afford 1 set of gear so it becomes even harder to be prepared for any situation.

I used to have two full sets. One for dps and another one for survival. Didnt work at all. Ya cant sneak-n-kill a medic behind enemy lines and expect to get away alive. Thus I gave up on survivability. With only dps in mind, I say one gear set and two pairs of rings (ch pair and crit pair) are enough for an SW.

Then again, I must emphasize, that i'm just a nub.

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On 8/20/2019 at 7:55 AM, sicat said:

I used to have two full sets. One for dps and another one for survival. Didnt work at all. Ya cant sneak-n-kill a medic behind enemy lines and expect to get away alive. Thus I gave up on survivability. With only dps in mind, I say one gear set and two pairs of rings (ch pair and crit pair) are enough for an SW.

Then again, I must emphasize, that i'm just a nub.

You could look at the SW being used to either stay back for protecting the ME or sneak past the line to go after the ME. The SW shouldn't be the line. So, when it comes to getting past the line you need to survive long enough on your own to kill the ME or stall the other side long enough have a sufficient amount of players killed before the ME starts healing them again and make it nearly impossible to kill the other side. So, for me I do like to have 1 set ready for killing and buff survival and another set ready to hopefully survive long enough for back up to come in so I could get out of the thick of the battle till buffs are back up. Doesn't always work, and nothing I seem to do can stop an instant death once buffs are gone without a good medic or PT. 

With that, there are 2 reasons for ch accessories. Like Luna said, for ch-eva, the other I think is for the ch-acc when other SWs come into play. For DPS reasons, I don't know if ch-atks are a far better path to dps pve as crits do way more damage as a multiplier. The ch-atk for pvp, well you would need the ch-pierce and crit void reduction to make sure you can deal as much damage as you can because the crit void can cause your final ch-atk to be less than what you might have hoped for.

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