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Venom
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13 hours ago, BesTweaveR said:

Bro, this tells me you did not read past posts about PU in this thread. Please back up your words with substantial facts

https://imgur.com/CkKtBrM

https://imgur.com/YPhEMuo

one is overkill one is wildifre,2 diffrent PU. dmg wasn't taken on sw or blueberry. im not sure how much dmg Pu players actually want.as for the slows i can make a video but thats something u can easily try yourself or with the PU;s on fk.

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4 hours ago, BumpetyBoo said:

 

overkill was good in oldtimes with old animation with 2.5 sec ....make cd shorter (  old asb ) 

 

lol... so u want it even with the bugs and you want the shortest cd non mech stun in the game to be shorter? aside from new medic stun which will prob hav a increased cd and new de stun which I think might be removed depending on something I have planned.

SE Tumbleweed kick 45s cd, stupefy 45scd | mech: stunning beauty 4s 30s cd

ME shockjock 4s 35s cd, blown away 2s 18s cd, both EASILY CANCELLED due to lengthy cast animation | mech: none

WH hook I 3s 30s cd, hook II 2.5s 35s cd, sadists choice 2.7s 30s cd | mech: athena's hate 2s 25s cd

DE steel impact 3s 30s cd, armageddon strike 1.6s 20s cd | mech: bladerunner 1.5s 20s cd

SW flare 3.1s 33s cd | mech: epona sprint 2sec 10s cd

CB skull crack 3s 30s cd | mech: dragging 1.5s 25s cd

PU overkill 2.5s 18s cd, Swingers 3.5s 35s cd | mech: detonation 4s 30s cd

 

look I am trying to guage what you can actaully get but sometimes what you all want does not make sense especially when I match it up with other classes. venom is right, pu can still do a lot of damage, ive done duels i've seen duels. some of them I see PU still destroy the other classes and are able to utilize their new freed points in a nice fashion to survive in arkana form and use more arkana skills rather than a clear cut mech build with almost no arkana attacks. I am trying to guage the right amount of damage but I know if you get what you had before its going to be ridicuolous with the amount of DPS you had before now being able to use these nots dots and the possibility to use these slows. its not so cut and dry.

 

many of the things discussed about medic and sw from PU perspective is pretty wrong lol.

We have effectively lowered overall damage and so this major nerf on pu is not necessray, some adjustments are being done and more points are being freed to help with utility survival but trying to find that good physical damage spot will be hard. Next patch you will have some back, probably have too much, but it's easier to adjust when more people can tell what the actual damage is compared to now. I do know that once pu can get its damage back medic will be the most affected as previously I used to get nearly 1 shotted by PUs, my DE could actually still die pretty quickly as well to a handful of PUs and it's the tankiest one in the game lol. the raw daamge from pu had thru physical does not need additional buffs or debuffs to make it more affective especially with more skill points to use slows and dots or the new changes incomming.

Unfortunately, PU isnt the only class with issues so we have a lot being formulated or testing and cant just put it out. and any adjustments to PU causes some interactions with other classes so have to be mindful there. most things cant just be  implemented without looking across the board.

 

we would also like to get to a spot where we can stop at least for awhile on tweaking things. There are stuff on my plate that I would like to take priority that would be much more beneficial. So good concise feedback is highly appreciated!

Edited by Daddy
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Seem the aim of most PU is to 1-2 hit everyone with no actual effort.even reverting to old PU like what was said above,the extra skill points will be too op with the slow changes,dot ect.Keep in mind 3 of pu mech skill are aoe which affect 6 targets,with 2 having big range an aoe dia ,with all of them hitting similar dmg. as a comparison ,It takes about 3 SE mech skills to do same dmg as 1 PU aoe mech skill which affects 6 targets vs the single target of the SE.Not even mentioning the arkana aoes like overkill,ultra plasma bullet,atomic  blast ect an others which also does formidable dmg/debuff  to multiple targets.

Edited by Venom
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9 hours ago, Venom said:

https://imgur.com/CkKtBrM

https://imgur.com/YPhEMuo

one is overkill one is wildifre,2 diffrent PU. dmg wasn't taken on sw or blueberry. im not sure how much dmg Pu players actually want.as for the slows i can make a video but thats something u can easily try yourself or with the PU;s on fk.

How do I get any understanding of what is the level of the 2 players you used to catch those SS with, it tells no names no players level nor the class. Nor time or date are mentioned.

I've got a few to show but I did not take for forum purpose so no date in those either, but rest can be checked,

vpgniUw.jpg

QOybWTk.jpg

 

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8 hours ago, BumpetyBoo said:

I played a while pu in asb too

pu was good in 59 cap , in 59er cap he can survival an sw with cocoons without defset in hp build 

now u dying vs sw in few seconds , other classes too  . 

overkill was good in oldtimes with old animation with 2.5 sec ....make cd shorter (  old asb ) 

with slow build u can survive se ( when u running ) and waiting bubble is over ^^ when not se kill u easy cause u have no acc ^^

crit build now useless without passive atk ( i played like asb thise build now i makes no dmg , u can now play more builds but burst dmg is exit :(  pu is no moire glas cannon...makes no dmg and dying in few second in mass pvp usless whil zerg ervertime focus pu when wh zerg pulling ^^   played mostime Medic ( its good balanced now ) 

>> Venom   << u can hit 20k when se have no bubble when collapse works than u can with lucky hit 20k dmg but not with overkill maybee on blueberry

other classes more pushed and pu nerfed too much, thats why most reroll too other classes 

Can't agree on some and can agree of some of the things you said, can agree on the crit rate, passive atk because other classes got boosted (also in crit eva) and pu only recieved nerf in damage. But some of  other things you mentioned sound just not right as they would be empowering too much the class making it over powered, classes need balance not overkills.

In other players eyes PU was a glass cannon because it use to hit pretty hard on such classes, however that was happening when these players were out of their buffs. 

Because indeed:

DE could not be killed in 1 or 2 rotations by PU fully geared if buffed (Could get close, but never kill. Doing so implied a full crit atk build which means basic acc of 141-142% and 163-164% ch-acc - sw, me,wh,de,cb could often resist the stuns lol - sp it already was not a glass cannon) .

Sw could not be touched while on buffs because it had since previous patch huge eva/ch-eva for PU to do something, also because PU fully anti sw build reached 242% ch-acc so the cry was about 2 hitting the Sw while not in buffs, because that ch-acc is too low to stun them anyway.

Probably No PU beside mine was able to kill most of SEs either, I could because I used acc jewels, @Bikini knows what I'm talking about he should be able to recall some tests in mid amara me and him: my PU using all acc jewels + acc title +4% acc form randoms against his 16k eva and yet PU not being able to kill.

Against ME: Full crit atk build means no ch-acc therefore I used to go hybrid to get some ch-acc, however 1 wrong hit or delay in skill 1v1 against ME the ME would survive in last patch against PU without even necessity to teleport or run away, done lots of tests against @Leonie

Pu vs Se, technically SE since ever had much better chances of victory over PU, it's eva greatly useful knowing PU's weakness was always acc, also, FS against a fast running class usually meant to be a deadly combination against SE. 1 skill wrong or delay PU was dead. Not enough acc PU was dead.

CB and PU: it was longest of the duels thanks to the new skill Enfeeble, while before that CB would win 65% of times more or less. Very few PUs were good enough to win against this class using fooling methods.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Daddy said:

lol... so u want it even with the bugs and you want the shortest cd non mech stun in the game to be shorter? aside from new medic stun which will prob hav a increased cd and new de stun which I think might be removed depending on something I have planned.

SE Tumbleweed kick 45s cd, stupefy 45scd | mech: stunning beauty 4s 30s cd

ME shockjock 4s 35s cd, blown away 2s 18s cd, both EASILY CANCELLED due to lengthy cast animation | mech: none

WH hook I 3s 30s cd, hook II 2.5s 35s cd, sadists choice 2.7s 30s cd | mech: athena's hate 2s 25s cd

DE steel impact 3s 30s cd, armageddon strike 1.6s 20s cd | mech: bladerunner 1.5s 20s cd

SW flare 3.1s 33s cd | mech: epona sprint 2sec 10s cd

CB skull crack 3s 30s cd | mech: dragging 1.5s 25s cd

PU overkill 2.5s 18s cd, Swingers 3.5s 35s cd | mech: detonation 4s 30s cd

 

look I am trying to guage what you can actaully get but sometimes what you all want does not make sense especially when I match it up with other classes. venom is right, pu can still do a lot of damage, ive done duels i've seen duels. some of them I see PU still destroy the other classes and are able to utilize their new freed points in a nice fashion to survive in arkana form and use more arkana skills rather than a clear cut mech build with almost no arkana attacks. I am trying to guage the right amount of damage but I know if you get what you had before its going to be ridicuolous with the amount of DPS you had before now being able to use these nots dots and the possibility to use these slows. its not so cut and dry.

 

many of the things discussed about medic and sw from PU perspective is pretty wrong lol.

We have effectively lowered overall damage and so this major nerf on pu is not necessray, some adjustments are being done and more points are being freed to help with utility survival but trying to find that good physical damage spot will be hard. Next patch you will have some back, probably have too much, but it's easier to adjust when more people can tell what the actual damage is compared to now. I do know that once pu can get its damage back medic will be the most affected as previously I used to get nearly 1 shotted by PUs, my DE could actually still die pretty quickly as well to a handful of PUs and it's the tankiest one in the game lol. the raw daamge from pu had thru physical does not need additional buffs or debuffs to make it more affective especially with more skill points to use slows and dots or the new changes incomming.

Unfortunately, PU isnt the only class with issues so we have a lot being formulated or testing and cant just put it out. and any adjustments to PU causes some interactions with other classes so have to be mindful there. most things cant just be  implemented without looking across the board.

 

we would also like to get to a spot where we can stop at least for awhile on tweaking things. There are stuff on my plate that I would like to take priority that would be much more beneficial. So good concise feedback is highly appreciated!

Clearly what you quoted wouldn't be possible because it would balance out actually.

Yes there are other classes to be balanced too, but you see PU everywhere because the patch caused a PU rage.

Also, as per the PU described as OP in your post let me tell you going certain types of build to maximize the damage always comes with a cost: Just read the my answer to BumpetyBoo's post right above this one.

However, there are things we need and other we do not, what we need is a neat PU which is pretty simple in my eyes:

All classes got boosted in different ways so here's something I give to you to think on as per my POV:

Regain of that 400 lost void, some of the passive damage back, enough to help us somehow counter a DE and not be 2-3 hits by this class, chances to be able to kill a WH and not just die. No need to add a nerf to MoB as other classes got great boosts over various skills and PU is pretty weak already with their new damage.

Now I do not mind whether you do this via improving active skills debuffs providing no extra stun time cost @Norleras or via giving enough passive attack. Just make sure You do not make ME and SW godly in terms of surviving and damage.

On the contrary the noncontinuous cocoons are a good idea same as it's been done for other classes in various ways giving a weakness moment. Not sure if this implies for all classes already though, but you guys are brainstorming and working on balancing so I dun wanna jump to conclusions.

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6 hours ago, Daddy said:

ive done duels i've seen duels.

Duels are different ...Game doesn't rely on duels most just change build for specific classes b4 starting to duel...

While mass PVP is completely different with added buffs and benefits Okay Pu don't get SE eagle eye buff ,,,,but why other wil get PU Concealer buff from mech remove that too :v

Pu don't do a lot of dmg in mass pvp its just duel ...

I agree with overkill being nerfed it should be too short CD but now its okay..if ya tell animation bug was there good thing its removed don't wana stand there after casting it ...though no. of ppl stun was removed from 5 to 3....

20k dmg from PU overkill may b that is undergeared or debuffed without any self buffs...or PU got kali buff from medic that's 1in 100 n not regular.

Also we should work everything on randomisation like loot drops nothing should be specific....

Being a PU player for long it hurts when u do some dmg in PVP now all of  sudden u dealing 686phy dmg to 1732 physical instead of 2132 to 12343k physical 

This is the most nerfed scaling I have felt.... More over Medic are working too good now ...Medics value should be increased for survival While if u have no medic u got to fight hard against those DPS class....

About cocoons Have to plan to run now when its CD... also cocoon doesn't follow us when we are dragged to death n FS does follow us with added benefits u cant move cancel it or sometimes cancel that Delilah buff by mistake xD

 

 

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But its just too simple as dps. Brake > sprint > rainbow slash > auto attk > cheek cutter > (auto attk > rainbow slash until cheek cutter n sprint can be used again). U r tanker but u have more variant skills, n also u can deal same or more dmg if u r under frenzy.

Dont forget cheek cutter have 1.5s animation, once u stun epona, it failed n no dmge dealt.

Edited by Recognized
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yes I am also refering to mass pvp but many of you seem to be complaining about duels and if even see in mass pvp or those one off moments in bg where pu can still do enormous amounts of damage to people lol. I actually like that idea of removing aoe from concealer, I didn't do orignally because I didnt know how much damage overall pvp would lose without eagle eye on a big scale. it seems to be good and should be fine without concealer as aoe. range is being added to several pu skills to 25m. 

i am going to put the missing void back in pu somewhere, I have a good idea so it should be fine.

 

as I am sure most people hav seen now, alot of mass pvp is not so cenetered around who has more WH and who has more PU which is kind of what it was like last patch which was ANNOYING.

i also dont want to mess with a core concept of what PU is with its cocoon and immbolize, it would essentially be an enitre class rework and would make you a super op version of sentinel.

 

lol freyja is like the worst mech IMO. especially as a tank DE. i literally only use it to tank longer and dash a few meters.

 

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31 minutes ago, Daddy said:

yes I am also refering to mass pvp but many of you seem to be complaining about duels and if even see in mass pvp or those one off moments in bg where pu can still do enormous amounts of damage to people lol. I actually like that idea of removing aoe from concealer, I didn't do orignally because I didnt know how much damage overall pvp would lose without eagle eye on a big scale. it seems to be good and should be fine without concealer as aoe. range is being added to several pu skills to 25m. 

i am going to put the missing void back in pu somewhere, I have a good idea so it should be fine.

 

as I am sure most people hav seen now, alot of mass pvp is not so cenetered around who has more WH and who has more PU which is kind of what it was like last patch which was ANNOYING.

i also dont want to mess with a core concept of what PU is with its cocoon and immbolize, it would essentially be an enitre class rework and would make you a super op version of sentinel.

 

lol freyja is like the worst mech IMO. especially as a tank DE. i literally only use it to tank longer and dash a few meters.

 

Freyja needs rework IMO, it since ever has the slowest animations on some of it's skills and no one ever complained about it because no one actually played DE in past beside 1-2 ppl. Also true that 1 of Sw's mech skill has so long animation that the mech stun runs out before it can land that skill.

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eh making sw better in mass pvp will be hard as their really mainly for ganking or going after 1-2 solo people or able to make maybe 1 kill if they dive a group. they do their goal well.

cheva bonus on the buff is the same as last cap minus maybe 100 less cheva altho sw really doesnt need anymore cheva lol its already super high.

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No.  SW is more for 1 at a time kills.  If we were to make SW good in mass PvP, it would mean either revamping her skill tree completely or making her attacks so strong that it takes a 1-2 hit kills to get consecutive kills.  The changes we made now were intended to prevent that on SW.  Not to mention making her Eva buffs THAT much better, which I will not allow.

Edited by Norleras
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Shadow projection doesn't counter Opponents with ME's Acc/Ch-acc buff it barely scratches at them. 500 Ch-eva vs 20% ch-acc just reduces them down 5% and when dealing with numbers between 80~100% it doesn't make that much of a difference if a player has 100% and you take away only 5% of their ch-acc.

ME PTs not only get the Def buffs but the offense buffs too while PTs without MEs have no improved Offense or Defs and are that much weaker in BGs.
 

5 minutes ago, Bikini said:

I think it would be fine to raise ch eva on the medic buff so it's the same with medic acc buff. It only makes sense that the 2 cancel eachother out

I think they should make the ME acc/ch-acc buff only 15% and the eva/Ch-eva 1000 to give a 5% increase to the ME over all. That is if both sides have a ME with both buffs.

 

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