[PvP Changes (Classic)]

19 hours ago, Shal said:

I mean changing class mid match is good in theory but in practice it just makes illu way stronger than other classes, not even because of its damage or kd but just because of "sleep revive" strat. Illu can consistently sleep everyone and revive their team because of sleep alone, what can you do against it besides buying anti sleep pots? Not much. Are you we expecting everyone to buy anti sleep pots every time theres a illu in a match (spoiler: that will be 95%+ of the time)? A good illu can stall and do this over and over again and imo its just not fair for other classes.

 

What other class can abuse this strat as easily as illu? None. So basically if you arent playing illu you are at disadvantage by default because at any moment they cant hit their panic button and reset any progress the other team made by reviving all their team, is that fair for other classes? In my opinion it is not. 

 

Switching to a wrong class by mistake isnt something that will happen often and shouldn't be used as a reason to prevent a bigger problem from getting fixed, plus that mistake is entirely on you so you should be accountable for that, while, on the other hand, illu "sleep revive" is something you cant do anything about it (besides anti sleep pot), its pretty much out of your control.

 

Anyway, at the end of the day i wont miss any sleep if nothing changes about this, but it would be nice if something gets done to illu sleep strat because it can be easily abused, renders other classes even more powerless than they are now and overall makes 3v3 less fun because of it.

 

Ps: illu will still kill you in seconds even if you have capped ice resistance , hp is too low and damage is too high for that to do anything in arena.

I agree that Illu's sleep is broken, and the fact that it's spammable and can catch an entire party in seconds is part of the reason I'm so adamant about wanting to keep the ability to antisleep between rounds. I also agree that it's the class most easily able to use the revive strategy thanks to that. However, I still believe the ability to switch classes during rounds makes each arena match more exciting, and it's worth keeping in.

In my opinion, it's not the easy class changes that makes Illus OP. Illus are just OP to begin with, and that's a problem with the class itself, not the current 3v3 system. A geared Illu still has a chance at taking out an entire party if it manages to sleep them all, class change or not. Class change is usually just a safer bet. That said, its not completely unable to be countered either. All you have to do is kill the Illusionist(s) first and never give them that chance. It's just another type of tactic you have to use when encountering a competent Illu. Anyone with any experience in PvP knows that generally, you should kill the Illusionist first anyways.

The biggest problem with Illu is and always has been, in my opinion, the duration and spammability of sleep. If you removed it completely, it would still be a top tier class. However, with it, no class is its equal, and that's why arena is flooded with them. That's why I believe, at the very least, keeping the ability to antisleep between rounds is essential.

[PvP Changes (Classic)]

This isn't much a suggestion rather than it's just my opinion on the current ability to change classes in arena.

I think it's made arena far more interesting ever since we could change classes mid-arena. Matches aren't so clear cut and evident while a losing team can strategically make miraculous comebacks from what would otherwise have been a lost match: Well-timed switches to a healer to revive the team, switching to a ranged class to deal with a kiting templar who can kite you from full hp to death because they slow, heal, and can't be cc'd by a stun (Other classes as well, but templar is easily the worst to deal with without range), switching from heals to DPS so that you don't get stuck in a 6-minute noodle fight between 2 healers, and other scenarios. It keeps you on your toes and forces you to be aware of every enemy to keep them from having the chance. It makes you think and strategize on another level to find ways to turn around an arena round instead of just quitting because you know you've lost. It gives you more of an incentive to gear other classes and try something new and, therefore, adds more variety to arena.

This is coming from someone who, at the moment, plays exclusively 1 class (MA) in arena and doesn't have the opportunity to use this system yet. It's one of the things Vendetta did right, and it'd be a shame to see it limited, in my opinion.

Regarding limiting class changes between rounds in 3v3, I'm not a huge fan of the idea. There have been times when I've accidentally selected the wrong class, and I wouldn't want the match to turn into a loss because of something so trivial. Sometimes players will change their class depending on what classes they think they're fighting against. You could set yourself up for a disadvantage for merely deciding to change your class earlier than the other team. And my biggest reason admittedly for being against this one is precisely the reason you might want it changed in the first place, players changing classes before a round to provide buffs. In my opinion, because it's something anyone could do, it doesn't automatically put any side at a disadvantage. Both sides are easily capable of buffing their team. It's just another part of the teamwork and adds to the strategy. The player whom buffs won't receive said buffs, so it's not necessarily an easy call to make and requires some level of experience to know you should do it.

But I'm sure that your main problem with this wasn't just regular cleric/shaman buffs, but specifically a bard's antisleep. While it's true, it makes it harder for Illusionist players, I think it's an essential strategy and one of the only ways to fight against an Illusionist without just joining the meta and becoming one yourself in 3v3.

You made it clear that class balances aren't in the cards, so I won't try to ask for that. However, it's hard to deny that Illusionist is easily the most overpowered class. It has a spammable magic triple hit that ignores defense, and unless you have specifically built yourself for ice resistance to fight this class it'll kill you in seconds. It has not one, but two AoE CC's while some classes only have 1 single target. Both AoE CCs are powerful in their own right. KD, arguably one of the best cc's because it increases the target's damage taken and nulls EVA, and sleep, the longest CC possible in EE that's used exclusively only by Illusionists and if used successfully can sleep an entire party and lead to a strong enough Illu successfully managing to 1 v 3 a whole party. No other class has that ability, not even close. Not to mention, on top of all of this, it has invisibility.

My reason for bringing this up is because even with one of their CC's unable to be used by antisleep, they're still far better than most other classes. And thanks to the extremely short duration on antisleep, if there isn't a bard main constantly spamming it, it doesn't last long. With full KP, a bard's antisleep can reach 18 seconds max. Take away about 6 seconds if they're using it only to buff between rounds because they'd have to switch to their main class to buff there before the round starts. That's about 12 seconds. For only 12 seconds, the Illusionist can't use their exclusive match-winning CC on 2/3 of the party. They can still use it on the player who cast antisleep because after switching to another class, they'll lack immunity. After those 12 seconds are up, they're able to sleep the entire party again without issue. With the ability to go invisible and still having the ability to AoE KD, surviving those 12 seconds is easy. The only worry is that their party could be wiped while they stayed hidden those 12 seconds, but a strong enough Illu can potentially win without a party assuming they're not up against another Illusionist.

There are few Bard mains who actually do well in arena due to the fact they can't AoE heal, and they're one of the easiest to kill. You'd have to sacrifice playing a proper class to play bard just to antisleep against an Illu for any real chance against them. It's not viable for most players, and against classes other than Illu, there's little reason to use bard at all in 3v3. Ultimately I believe using Bard's antisleep between matches is a weak counter to fighting Illusionists, but as it's one of the only counters non-illusionists have, it's a very necessary one, and I hope you reconsider removing the ability to do it.