Nyet
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Posts posted by Nyet
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How would this be a good idea now there's "no bots"?
This would just allow for a .AHK to spam space bar and also pick up items, then literally everyone can "bot" for free?
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7 hours ago, Ferox said:
"oNyX, sTeAmPuNk and FrEe fIbI"
nah, still what he says 👇😋😘Try not to triple post in the same thread with the same answer, doesn't improve the chances of getting what you want and just clogs up the post making it harder to see other suggestions ?_?
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It's a rinse-repeat argument honestly, people will continue to gold-sell while it's a profitable market for them.
Increasing the already high rate of VGN items seems absurd, this week alone I made about 6kkk from onyx wings, I'm sure @Bash can tell my bank account took a hit
but there is no need to increase the amount of gold in the VGN shop, it's just absurd. As I've said quite a few times and I believe is the truth; the entire game is based around monetary value of items, you cannot improve and become strong without gold, you need gold to buy equipment to farm, you need to gold to buy SP's or build your own SP's, yes you can mob and level slowly and do it yourself but while it's so much "easier" to buy gold people will do so.
Increasing the viability of VGN over other options will do exactly what @Bash has tried to deviate from; making the game "Pay To Win", but as always there will be an aspect of it, NosTale is not a game of skill as with many other MMO's even if you were to be the most "skilled" PvE lurer, Arena player, Best at seer combos, know the best Erenia route, etc. without the monetary value in gold to be able to buy the best equipment alongside it you won't be the strongest, it's just how it is. The only way to completely remove gold buying would be to get rid of gold in it's entirety and have all trading via the VGN shop, every item has a set-price which you sell to the VGN shop based on shell stats etc. and can then buy other items, i.e. C45 bows, random betting amulets, SP's, perfection stones. But finding a set-price for every item in the game is borderline impossible, it's extremely difficult to value certain items and comes down to how much others are willing to pay at the end of the day.
The value of gold nor the VGN items are decided by Bash, it's decided by the community at the rate they wish to sell and buy, if everyone decided they wanted onyx wings to sell for 45kk each, there's nothing to stop that, but somebody would buy every single one and re-list them at a higher-rate, it's simply supply & demand for items and is decided by the seller and consumers alike.
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31 minutes ago, Toryss said:
The point is that i have two chars at around lvl 94+30 and i have to deal with fucking a1 quest and hunt vampies, i cant even sell my eq on these chars so im basically forced to do this shit, and trust me id rather transfer all my money/eq etc onto my main char than deal with this shit.
You had the weekend to do exactly what you just proposed, the time given was to trade over your items / gold etc. if you needed to.
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14 hours ago, hollowknight said:
Well this is true, as a new player you will struggle a lot in UL but I dont think that perfecting a SP is a high prioirty at first stages of the game, so I don't really see this as a big problem.
Not even as a new player UL is just retarded to try farm when a full buffed scout comes and 1 hits you, simply not going to be effective, especially not if there's a large increase of multiple people farming there, it's a single channel map in a PvP environment, like I said, make it a non-PvP environment and accessible via channels 1~9 and it would be justifiable.
14 hours ago, hollowknight said:100-800kk?? You get around 2 gears (in my personal expereince at least) out of 30 boxes (more or less, ofc) and the the mean price for this gears is/was around 40-45kk (at least before downitme, ik that prices are higher now but in a few weeks they should be back to their original price) an the other rewards (wings, crystal, manes, ...) are similar to what zenas/erenia gives. Anyways, in terms of 'pure' gold I see this raid balanced (and now with higher gear's prices, even better) I just thought that there could be other rewards; for example adding materials needed for fernon fairy crafting; or any other kind of reward that isn't gold directly.
Adding Fernon fairy craftable materials would completely drop the price of lets be honest the only end-game item that isn't already highly accessible to everyone on the server, with the exception of Fernon shoes which are still in circulation at an extremely higher rate in comparison. Also nothing is stopping you from using 2 characters which would give "in your experience" 160kk per hour which is honestly so much, and it is meant to be an RNG based raid, it takes 2 minutes maximum to complete and is simply an easy raid, to allow very good loot at a high percent chance is illogical, it would be like adding Glacerus' manes / Draco's claws x5 to a cuby raid, just doesn't make sense.
14 hours ago, hollowknight said:As far as I know, there are 3-4 teams in the whole server making this raid; so I wouldn't consider as really spammed raids; since erenia raids are much more spammed, for example.
Again, I was trying to suggest other kind of rewards; not just 'lets increase the % of shoes/gears or any big gold source and make rich the ones that make this raid'. And everything that I said wasn't based on one hour that I didnt get any profit and I thought 'hey, lets yell on forums about this crap rewarding raid', of coures not; it was based on my and my teamates experience after making this raids for months.
Regardless of how many people do it does not change the fact of how easily spam-able the raid is, if only 10 people did Cuby it's still an easy raid that can be spammed, I don't understand the logic there. Also I didn't say that you mentioned shoes / gear being raised I was simply saying if you were getting these rewards you wouldn't be complaining, the fact they're in loot pool can be enough in my opinion, as someone that opens Erenia boxes on 2 characters I honestly make an average of about 20-40kk per hour from the loot rewards, which is the equivalent of a single piece of equipment from Fernon which is easily obtainable and many more boxes are given in Fernon.
14 hours ago, hollowknight said:As I said before, current prices are quite high for c45/c48 gear so maybe it's not the best moment to talk about them. But my main idea was that even you are lucky and make 100kk/h in one fernon hour, you are still able to make 80kk/h in a way easier raid and with much lower requirments; so i wanted to point that either erenia is too rewarding or fernons arent enough rewarding; and IMO, the first case is what actually happens.
I simply don't think Erenia is "too rewarding" because you're basing that on people selling boxes, it's a community based price the boxes sell at, there is no set price for these and there is nobody stopping you from using 2 characters in fernon to get more gold which is very very easy to get 200kk+. Erenia is not easier than Fernon, they're both a repetitive spam raid, at least in Erenia you don't enter the boss room instantly, you can finish Fernon within 1 minute, Erenia minimum takes 1min30~2mins just to get to the boss room. The amount of loot you "CAN" being they key-word, receive from Fernon is far superior to Erenia and you get more boxes within Fernon, statistically you're going to make more profit whether or not you sell Erenia boxes.
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The buff seems a bit ridiculous to be honest, it adds the entire effect of archangel / archdaemon wings etc. but at an even higher rate. The damage in PvE with the implementation of that buff would just be complete aids. I 1 hit mobs on AM without majority of buffs, this seems even stronger than soundflower lmao
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12 hours ago, hollowknight said:
First of all I want to make clear that I'm just a player experienced with all the ways of farming in this server (from pts to fernon) so everyhing will be based on my own experince doing pve. I know that some prices are really high and I undestand that these changes were made to mitigate this issue and maybe that will work, but I just want to suggest/discuss other options.
The main issue with erenia/zenas raids are that you get a really high profit when u sell them (like 80kk/h with 2 accs) comparing to how much u make if you decide to open them (30kk/h max? and like 30 claws/manes?). So why not reverse the changes that were made to c25/8 gear (or even improve a bit the loot from boxes) but make erenia/zenas raidboxes not tradeable? This is how it works on fernon and it seems to be working pretty fine. This would also encourage (well, or force tbh) to farm by their own if they want to perfect their sps (either doing erenia/zenas/fernon raids of going to UL) and would solve the problem of the overpiced boxes.
Regarding to shining blue souls, I also think that this change should be reversed. We were able to make around 55kk/h (more or less, including that you level someone for cash) and this doesnt really sound like a crazy way to make money (for example, in erenia you could make 80kk/h). With the souls at 160k/u this amount is reduced by 5kk more or less and even if its not so much money, we have to consider that the souls were the 'secure' way to make moeny in 6.2/6.1; because you wont be able to find someone to boost for cash always, or probabling you won't loot avengers each hour.
And well this is a bit off-topic maybe, but I think the fernon raid should be changed a bit to make it more profitable. It's the hardest raid of the game by far (to make decent amount of raids/h i mean) but it doesnt feel as rewarding as it should be (IMO, ofc). So why not increase the amount of claws/manes you obtain (for example) to make it slightly more profitable (as you have to 'invest' a good amount of money, to be well geared for this raid)
Again, I'm not saying that these changes were done to 'fuck' players and I know that everyhing was decided as the best way to solve the problem and it might be the best option, and not what i've just said.
Making Erenia/Zenas untradeable is further disallowing improvement for new players to the game.
It is not plausible for a c30 to try farm Unknown Land for perfection stones, they will just die constantly and not gain anything, regardless of the time they put in, unless Unknown Land is an anti PvP zone this is simply not going to be logical.
Also as for Fernon raids, I can't see how any complaints can be made on the amount of gold the raid provides, main items from the raids sell from 100kk~800kk.
This will minimum require 10 hours of erenia raids to hit the peak of a Fernon raid loot pool. Yes, it may be low chance to receive Fernon shoes, however if it wasn't viable to do fernon raids people wouldn't be spamming them at every possible opportunity, to say it doesn't seem rewarding is simply because you aren't getting the loot you want, if you got Fernon shoes every hour you did the raid it wouldn't be a complaint, it comes down to RNG realistically and certainly doesn't need to be buffed further.
On top of which a base NPC price was added for equipment that was going for borderline no gold prior to the update, which allows even more gold from a very easy raid realistically, it's the most spam-able with minimal effort. I don't see how there's any room for complaint in those raids to be completely honest.
I agree with reversing back the price of Erenia/Zenas Equipment and also with Blue Souls, mobbing really isn't a ridiculously high income option, more of a side way of making gold if you don't want to raid or can't.
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8 minutes ago, Bash said:
I'm mainly venting to you, so don't take what I am saying as directed to you.
I'll figure a solution out for this for Monday I'm sure.
Don't worry I wasn't taking it personally.
I don't doubt you'll figure something out, as I said I just wanted to check it was looked at.
You should take a break tho n enjoy the weekend for real
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21 minutes ago, Bash said:
It could have been worse, you could have lost 4 weeks worth of work (that's how long they were doing this for). Still this system was in place, you have to understand I've slept only 20 hours in 6 fucking days I've done everything I can to save this server and the way some of you are going on I am really close ot throwing in the towel and telling you all to fuck off.
I can take criticism but to question my actions against corruption because boo fucking hoo you gotta do an old quest line. Seriously no wonder GF doesn't give a fuck anymore about this game.
I mean I didn't really come here to argue about the execution of what you've done, nor to flame you.
I simply wanted to explain my opinion on the current financial hit the market has taken.
People are going to trash talk because they're mad it's an online mentality not just a server / game based one, I don't really want to bother speaking on that, I've got to know you relatively well through some issues I've gone through and you've helped with and often you've gone above and beyond to help with things so it's just a matter of anger and lack of perspective. From my point of view, you're far from money hungry and care about the longevity and player base more than it comes across as to some people.
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Agree with this, it was good when the shops etc. were removed from ch1 to reduce the amount of people, but the capacity is constantly back at cap, the channel simply can't handle it, should be reduced back.
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2 minutes ago, Azna said:
If mobbing is my preference on making gold, why isn't buying boxes your preference? Then you may as well just do the raids yourself? Find yourself a Fernon team (you actually get more manes and claws from there)? Second of all, You do realize that the box price will drop itself if it's not "benefiting" / creating huge loss to the ones who open
Well it won't because people are constantly buying them, and I'd rather not speak on your preference of making gold since you've already made enough profit as a result of selling to a gold duper even with the 80% gold loss.
I don't use boxes for profit, I buy VGN to make gold, pretty sure that's common knowledge at this point.
1 minute ago, Bash said:Then blame the people who ruined the economy. I don't get why we're the ones getting the earful here when in all fairness this wouldn't have happened if players would just play the game for once instead of trying to make a quick buck.
Soon as someone quits the game they "cash out". It's fucking annoying, these are the people ruining the game not us. We're trying to fix it.
I think the reason you're receiving blame is because people feel they're all taking punishment for something gold dupers / sellers did when they already got their money and left. It's hard to see the bigger picture and if this will reduce the chances of it happening in the future when you come back after however many days of being unable to play to now see you've lost 20% of your gold, you can't trade anything, you have to do a redundant questline etc. it's just tough to come back to that and see it as rewarding.
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Just want to point out that there is currently 1 seller of "Blue Herb" a quest item at 200k each making like 40m+ because people are desperate to buy them, not a huge gold increase but still substantial.
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6 minutes ago, Bash said:
It's high right now though due to the fact that the NB was wiped, people are trying to manipulate the market. For now we're just gonna wait and if anything is needed we will act on it. Remember we're doing this for the best interest of the server, we didn't just wake up and go "Hey! Let's ruin everyones day". Very counter productive given I'm apparently all for the money right?
Okay well as long as you're monitoring it to see if something should be done that's all I really want to happen, just from my POV I don't see the economy stabilising for a long time if ever.
Also, some people don't really know how to give objective criticism so instead just flame you, which is what it is I'm sure you're used to it, I gain no benefit from saying you're money hungry or a trash GM and it doesn't even show that way realistically, I just don't want to see an economy become like UK official where everything was inflated for the simple fact that people bought everything in bulk and decided the prices as they see fit.
2 minutes ago, Azna said:If the prices are as high as you're saying then:
1. Don't buy and raid by yourself.
2. Farm unknown land?
However, I think the issue with the price change was more in mobbing, since it wasn't really rewarding compared to raids with 2 characters. Now if you do the changes mentioned above, it'd be even worse ratio, and no one would actually mob.People will always mob, it's how you get xp. It purely depends on your preference to make gold. Also pretty sure everyone is aware that Unknown land is a joke to try farm given where it's placed
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Just now, Bash said:
I think I've made it clear to you before that my replies are always based at everyone. Even though I quote you, I speak to everyone as a whole. So the "Tunnel Vision" comment was directed towards the obvious concerns everyone seems to have which is "How do I get from A -> B" without realised there is a C, D, E, F, G etc
I understand your concern but it's teething issues atm and if we need to inject more items into the game to help the economy then so be it. But we can't just do it 24 hours after a patch we have to analyze.
Sure I understand, but I think it should definitely be looked at as an option, I used the example before the server went down as a result of the gold duping that abysall essences were beyond overpriced, they're now even higher than that rate.
Erenia boxes are more expensive, it's simply a consumer supplier cycle, supplies are low at the moment but people still want them so the prices are kind of irrelevant, but as a result everything will go up in price permanently, even if just marginally it's not good for any economy.
I agree it would be best to wait for the time-being though and just see how it plays out, but I can't see anything at all reducing in price to lower than before the gold dupe since now the first person who listed an item decided the price for it.
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2 hours ago, Bash said:
Theres a whole picture here not just "how to get myself from A -> B". You just have to bare with us and give us time to teeth through the changes to find a balance that suits all. Every single complaint is coming from a situation based on tunnel vision and that's not how we do things here.
We didn't do any of these changes lightly and the fact peoples only argument to return to us is about the gold sellers goes to show how many people really don't understand the changes.
I've explained the decisions on both the price changes and the Trade Limit I'd prefer it if everyone just go on with things.
Economy changes are never fixed over night.
I'm aware of the bigger issue, but even as a short term fix this doesn't seem to benefit anyone really, the boxes are still as high as ever, in fact everything is ridiculously high in bazaar.
If you want to really fix the economy some items should be injected into the economy via bazaar to try and fix their price.
On top of that I don't think I'm having tunnel vision, I personally don't need the profit from the boxes, I have enough gold I just want the perfection stones, but for lower level c30 players who may want to perfect their sp etc. it will take extremely long to do so and it will be economically trash, the margin to make profit just isn't there.
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4 minutes ago, Nyxia said:
This may happen yea, but we should still wait for how it's actually going to balance itself out and hope on better rng for you
I don't think it's going to balance anything tbh the boxes will stay at a high price just the things inside them are trash and I will never have good RNG
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4 minutes ago, Nyxia said:
That's some very unlucky rng then. Most of the time I just break even with the equipment and still having manes and claws o: And I buy a lot of boxes too.
Yea, I'm not expecting to always profit / break even, more often than not before the patch I would lose about 100-200kk on average in about 300-400 boxes, now it's easy to lose way more gold and the boxes haven't, most likely won't ever reduce in price to 1.8~2kk and there's no improvement to the items you receive, just seems a bit ridiculous to me.
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5 minutes ago, Nyxia said:
In the end opening raid boxes is gambling and sometimes you make profit with a lot of equipment or something like the horn and sometimes you just don't. That's how gambling works tho
Before the reduction in prices of equipment I opened about 400 boxes, I lost over 300m and only got 300 glacerus' manes which got me from 95~98 perfection, it's pretty much impossible now to not lose unperceivable amounts of gold just trying to perfect an sp now.
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Wanted to open this discussion regarding the price changes with c25/28 equipment & blue souls etc.
As someone that often opens erenia boxes in order to get glacerus' manes / draco claws', it was already borderline impossible to make profit / break even with erenia box openings, but this change in price is absolutely ridiculous.
I understand that there needed to be some way to reduce gold flow, but to reduce certain items like this is definitely not a way forward.
This pretty much eliminates a way of lower level players getting perfection stones / certain equipment without making a ridiculous loss on what they're paying, it would be different if the rates for equipment etc. were increased.
To combat this I would suggest either changing crystal of balance to x5 in the boxes and completely removing Silk or Intact Orichalcum since they're completely useless and can be obtained via farming, alternatively increasing the rates on equipment / erenia horn / wings etc. should be added.
Also not reducing the profit from fernon but directly reducing erenia / zenas is also just absurd, as someone that already has gold I'm not hugely effected by either raid, I simply open the boxes for perfection stones, but to allow people that spam however many fernon raids with a family with the possibility of getting 250kk+ with ease and potentially 1kkk+ in some hours is just dumb, they're already rich and will stay richer based off this.
This update seemingly just increases the disparity between lower levels and higher levels to an even greater degree than it is right now, don't get me wrong I accept and understand that there were major issues with gold injections into the economy but directly affecting raid viability doesn't seem like a good solution to this.
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Incoming update
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The issue is that NosTale is purely monetary based, you gain nothing from quests etc. so it all comes down to how much gold you have is how good you are at the game and how much you prosper, to put a gold cap raises major issues.
Additionally certain people won't sell to others I.e. if I wanted to buy a weapon / sp from someone I hunt they wouldn't sell it most likely, hence the use of an alt is necessary.
To level a character to +50 just to use as a buy / sell character is a bit harsh.
Perhaps limitations on items that have low value i.e. Seeds of power etc. should be set or alternatively have a trade approval mechanism for other 2kkk+ trades that a GS / GM would review, though that could be extremely time consuming.
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But high level equipment is easily worth 4kkk+, it's good in thought, but in process it will just make selling all high tier items borderline impossible.
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Yea fuck high level players fking scum imagine being dedicated to a server and putting time and effort in XDDDDDD fking losers
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I mean the fact seer is receiving a buff is simply amusing, as someone that uses seer I will even admit that the SP is beyond broken and needs anything but a buff, illusion is already strong definitely does not require a point n click aspect.
As for the final, giving seers a 80% freeze / stun / plague / holy light is also just ridiculous, reduce the chance of blade changer & change the defence buff to 60% chance of receiving shield with 60% chance of re-cast possibility so that if you don't get it you aren't 100% fucked until cd is done, this would make it more like assassin which at least has some RNG.
Also mind sink needs to allow stuns etc. while it's being used imo.
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