BesTweaveR
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Posts posted by BesTweaveR
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4 hours ago, Bikini said:
PU is one of the most simple classes in the game only reason it's hard to balance is cause all this contradiction in the feedback.
from PU players POV, ye.
Just an example to give you about why: acc buff skill:
Se Lightspeed: 33sec cd with 17sec buff
Pu MoB: 2 min cd over with 46sec buff, only PU acc buff skill gives self debuffs while no other classes's acc buff does.
Sw MissM: 40sec cd with 25sec buff
De FasterPSKillKill: 19sec buff with 40sec cd
Can I really count in mass PvP on that MoB? how often compared to all other classes?
Quoteonly reason it's hard to balance is cause all this contradiction in the feedback.
Pu is simple ye but you cannot tell us PUs that just because the balance has already been done, in a certain way, is correct and we have to accept it that way. There's reason for contradictions to exist in feedback,
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3 hours ago, Venom said:
yea PU is truly dead class,they are only doing 20k dmg on overkill now,and they can immobilize a wh/de down to a cb/se using thier max max speed buff, until their defense buffs are out or nearly over.noticed no difference in pu tankieness aswel.( forget to mention they can slow u while keeping u out of thier range)
SE : the ch acc an acc is nice on the speed buff but requires much sacrifice on points,i am down to a single debuff vs 2 before an auto atk as my only dmg skill in arkana mode besides stuns an trap.a full mech dependant class,even if losing 1 passive to get more arkana skills they do very minimal dmg.
Bro, this tells me you did not read past posts about PU in this thread. Please back up your words with substantial facts
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8 hours ago, Daddy said:
in regards to animation for overkill, i was told by multiple PUs even most of you that post online that you wanted it chagne for a multitude of reasons even as I played with it, its probably the most annoying animation out of all the classes (mech issues, getting stuck, ect). I can revert it but it's just annoying a change that was wanted now is going to be reverted lol
Reverting Overkill's animation to the original will make you cap again into same dead lock problems which occurs often enough against a faded player or like in case you overkill and go mech your mech stun animation will trigger up to 3 times without working. Unless you got a better animation I'd say this at least is working so I'd rather keep this working rather than 1 not working.
PUs dun like this one much because it's greedy animation occults around 60-70% of screen with it's smoke, but again I'd suggest PU players to think better over it, this one causes no locks.
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14 hours ago, Bikini said:
What if PU keeps their current DPS but are allowed to move in firing squad? Would they still suck or would it save PU?
I dun even feel like replying to it, PU is totally useless with current range, in mass PvP totally a dead meat running around to give free kills and RP to enemies. DPS sucks. [WRK [05I
But all these questions and guessings about PU by GSes again just gives me the idea you guys literally have none PU players to discuss with regarding this class, so I wonder who was taken in as PU player to be part of balancing team, because whoever it was or did it's balance had less than half the clue about PU. And if I evaluate the outcome regarding this class so far in this thread, I feel like it's just not going to get fixed but ''SF EOJGFIEJOE D4S48W7EWD6 W4FS4'':
public class MyClass { static void PU() { System.out.println("I just got executed!"); } public static void main(String[] args) { PU(); } }The issued about this class are not being taken seriously, because none of you play PU. Daddy's got an alt which he plays once every 9 months.
Little update on the situation so far:
damage taken away
survivality reduced
atk range made universal as all other classes so no advantage gives for it's nerfed "tankiness"
it's skills make no damage without FS since ever
most classes count on more crit eva now so critting is also difficult now and no crit buff increase
cannot go full crit atk build cause no acc no ch-acc to help
cannot go full chk set cause cannot kill any class with it
cannot atk from far because 90% of skills are set to 20m
cannot run cause FS if try to be hero it ends dead
And etc etc etc dfmljFKEFEIFJEIJ
Having no real PU player to work on balancing this class is like asking batman to do an MBBS level surgery.
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1 hour ago, SparkOne said:
i duel Beau DE ...what he said am bit tanky ...
Now explain better, because I dun want people to get a wrong idea as what you said is too vague.
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22 minutes ago, Beau said:
@BesTweaveR Thats the stats my DE has when I pop frenzy.
Read the disable part again, I didnt say DE doesnt have disables 🤣 I said DE doesnt have disable a WH has, where WH can actually tank and hold people. The only thing a DE can do is chain CC 1 ME who can get cleansed by another ME 😅
Try to find another DE to test stuffs if you can find any 🤣 and see if result are the same, maybe all the calculation are all based on my stats and playstyle, although its true most of my stats are ceiling level and only missing a few unique jewels and perfect enchants might make the best test subject you can find.
About WH and DE disables, they same, WH surely holds enemy better cause of Mech immobilize debuff and stuns while DE can't immobilize them that long which obviously has it's repercussions as class.
You are good enough as taken sample, you play DE class as main, and are fully geared at lv 65. Also hard so far to find worked-active DEs, I see some players running DE alts who ditched other classes like Drakkar @DrakkarUlfsark now because DE is good and fun.
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1 hour ago, Beau said:
Corrections and answers in red:
Thats the highest damage so far, taking 60% out of my HP, downside is you dont have any means to protect yourself, other DPS literally deals non existent damage, Im not event using iron skin on SW, SE or CB just mech HP potions out heal all the damage they deal. you can ask celia, adam, kini, gunner and peeping how does their damage feels againts DE. The only people that can literally deal damage on me is sparky and you but then again PU has no means to protect themselves after their initial rota is done.
Some of my tests against ur DE were done using Enfeeble on you while in cocoon, yes it seems like this PU debuff had sort or no effect on you the burst was so high. So the necessity to defend comes when I am actually trying to protect myself self without going all our on you, but seems not working well enough.
Frenzy turns you into a chewy meatballs, you need timing and patience before you can use it on mass pvp, most of the time you wont find any, Firing squad + offense cocoon on the other hand gives you more damage output and the fact that most skills reach 20m+ getting rooted wont be a problem in mass PVP where PU is at the farthest spot and can shoot people while ME supports them.
With last patch most of PU's skills range has been set to 20m, excluding Atomic column which is escalating by number or skills you put in. DoT columns set to 2x 20m and 1x escalating.
Same build wiz/ ghost and Iota weapon
My PU on full buffs can reach 10k crit rate, 19.9k crit attack, 148ish acc and 200ish ch acc
That much crit atk is given by full ghost set while PU is max buffs with those acc and ch-acc, correct.
Void stats = 6k close to 7k , ch resist = 5300ish close to 6k, damage 5.6k -7 7k min/max, ch atk 4.5k - 6kish min max
Your void statement is wrong, in the set you mentioned PU's void is around 5.9k (if u add unique cap +300 but not recommended due to PU going Eva now lol), still that is close to 6k not 7k.
5.3k ch-resists are 5.3k not 6k cuz to 6k it misses +700 which are non-existent.
My DE on full buffs can reach 10k crit rate, 18k crit atk, 148.1 acc, 201.1 ch acc,
Full ghost PU gets 9.7k crit rare considering 3x crit rate randoms.
Full crit PU gets around 10.1k crit rate considering 3x crit rate randoms.
void, 2.1k void, 2.5k ch resist, 5.3k -7k min max atk, 4k -5.425k ch atk
I'm not sure whether these are basic stats of your DE (I doubt that void) - can you to give a better clarification on that? then I can work on it.
This stats is abit higher than DE without any repercussion aside from root, you have a 20m range + manual target.
Only Mech has 2 AoEs skills that surpass the 20m limit with current patch, while in Arkana mode only Enfeeble, 2x Atmoic and 2x DoT skills barely surpass 20m, however, as mentioned already various times these skill colums have their issues to be addressed to make them really useful, until that it's a no-no because the only people who enjoy kidding around with these skills are who just do not play PU as their main class so they do it for a temporary fun outcome during mass PvP knowing they are supported by zerg. Try them in a BG and you'll get what I mean, considering same geared players. Enfeeble is a neutral skill that does not apply any damage since new patch. So i believe there's not much of choice over 20m as this seems to have become the new border line for a distant attacking PU class as well, despite it's mobility sacrifice and pro vulnerability 'cause of that. Setting range 20m means WH will pull you. I suggest playing a PU to understand the game play better during PvP/BG.
1 missclick on DE can make your team lose, there's so much more to it on tanking aside from popping buff and running to enemy army. DE dont have the disable a WH has, my CC and hard hitting skills CD is too high 20s cd to 30 not to mention most of it is single target. Only time DE shines is when noob people focus fire me 🤣
Not sure what you mean by DE not having disables. Anyway Atomic and DoTs columns of PU skill trees also have long CDs going up to 40sec max.
Current DE is amazing IMO, it has lots of different skills, different buffs and debuffs to adapt herself according to the situation you are put it in front, indeed the new DE greatly promotes a player to be skilled, so it's not just stun/debuff/kill. And that is the ideal situation I had imagined coming through class balancing for all classes.
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11 minutes ago, Recognized said:
I seriously dont understand, there r few ppl who doesnt like new PU build, but there r few ppl who rlly love this new build bcs u can make whipper n de cant move n let them die. But im sure PU should be the only class who can kill tanker classes.
There are plenty of issues to be addressed to make PU's new builds usable. I've talked about nearly all the issues in past posts on this thread:
Basically the GMs idea about PU was DoT: but they did not calculate number of skills against the CDs of DoT or Atomic skills, you can find all the details on the matter in my previous posts, just scroll back.
Atomic build has same issues.
Both builds create a lot of dead times in combos because PU runs out of skills. By any chance if you SMH manage/choose to get the basic skills they simply make no damage.
PU has 3 DoT skills: with 10, 25, 35 sec CD.
Atomic skills 3: 15, 20, 40 sec CD
I'm closing this post here because I feel like repeating myself, but I hope I gave you a bit of idea.
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11 hours ago, Beau said:
But DE has less debuff than PU ☹️
How many classes can solo a DE atm? Your burst is double and you can kill. Your cirt atk probably surpasses that of a hybrid PU, Frenzy adds up +8000 crit atk +4500 crit rate which is same at PU Firing Squade, but DE gets extra +2000 crit rate actually, and DE's Armageddon adds +4500 crit atk and +4500 crit rate.
This makes DE a full tank but also in other terms a PU, as mentioned in earlier post currently DE's got a much better burst than PU. Because of OP skills as Armageddon, Cynosure, Eye of Storm, Wheel Impact etc which deal great damage.
Unlike DE, PU has no attack skills that add Crit Atk, but 2 that add Crit Rate only, however we can't max them: Demolition asks for 15 skill points and Mighty Impact 10, in comparison DEs' Armageddon requires only 4 and gives greater effects.
A PU that goes fully crit atk build including crit atk jewels, is pretty useless considering it has no acc or ch-acc to stop SE, SW, ME, and with such build besides physical miss it often misses also stuns over high gravity resisting classes such a DE, ME, WH. I've tested it fully and that happens. Not to mention the tragedy against a SW with such build: PU is the new Jesus.
Since last patch till the current the Hybrid PU seems to be the only way to make it a bit useful in terms of damage, at least you know you will not just miss but hit, even if maybe a little damage but it will happen. That is why I always told a Max DMG built PU is useless (because it's efficacy comes only through ME support).
While in current patch a fully CHK built PU just does not have enough burst and does half the damage of a Physical built PU LOL. Go test it, because I did.
However, the current PU is absolutely not even close to be an anti tank class.
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1 hour ago, Beau said:
- PU's damage gets nerfed realtime, skills rearranged giving them more skill points. Damage wise they can still deal more damage to DE compared to other DPS.
- PU players got used to insane amount of damage thats why they feel naked now that the damage mastery is replaced with a pathetic passive 🤣
What would that even mean when actually 4 combos of my PU with max buffs and cluster lv. 2 against your DE I could only take off 60% of your HP with Max Crit Atk set, and 40% of HP with max Chk set, over various attempts. No to mention your DE would 2 hit me dead whenever my stuns get over, despite your DE being under my Enfeeble effect.
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3 hours ago, ΣvilTεrεsα said:
most end game SEs that i seen use only lvl1 gatling storm in this patch,which give -5% void debuff for 6sec, most probably increase it to 4lvl at best which gives -8% void for 8,5sec, so most SEs run with -18%-21% void debuffs combo , this mostly because we need get hp passive high to survive most encounters and we cant really sacrifice our slows and buffs, highest useful resist in debuffs we have, do get to -55%(atomic) after that comes -46%(Gravity) and rest are -25%, im not gonna talk about that -70% particle resist because no sane se use any those skills in pvp because they take too many skillpoints and not really that useful with rotations, so that -70% particle be useless for se to use
I can agree with you that not all max some skills that I mentioned indeed everyone have their own builds ofc, however my point was just to highlight that compared to other classes PU has way less debuffs.
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3 minutes ago, iProtect said:
I’m lost. Lol
I believe there were only 4 people handling the class balancing: 2x Me, Sw, Se players. No whipper or Punisher player at all.
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11 minutes ago, iProtect said:
I agree. I don’t know who all are private testers, but there’s a pretty good chance that there needs to be more. Preferably more players at the highest level cap, who have dedicated “main” classes and understand how they work. If it’s just a handful of players testing, they’re not getting the data they need prior to a patch going live.
Bit late. Not really into stone paper scissor
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7 hours ago, Norleras said:
Curious as to how PUs would feel if they got additional debuffs to boost damage instead of damage buffs?
To count on 1 single skill? so a single target? It feels quitting even more certain.
LET'S TALK FACTS about few things: some Debuffs, class wise:
Whipper: debuffs -1400 gravity and -4600 all other resists, it debuffs -4300 void (adding mech), -1270 def, immobilizes and disables too. I dun wanna talk about stuns.
Sentinel: debuffs -3300 void, up to -7000 resists (ironic PU max resists are around 5.1k - some 3k if ghost set), -200 def
Shadow Walker: debuffs -3800 resists, -5000 crit void, -320def (ironic PU def is around 656), -2600 void
Defender: debuffs -2800 void, -2300 eva, -1400 ch-eva
Cyberblade: -110% Phys/Chk atk -2800 crit rate and -1800 crit atk, -886def -2000 void -2900 resists -400crit eva, -10,000 eva, -6500 eva
Medic: all buffs lol (I hope this gives an idea to GSes)
Punisher: -2900 void -2900 resist -2000 DoT reduction -1700eva that's it.
In conclusion PU has the lowest debuff, and actually also the lowest self helping buff if you check. PU does way less burst than any class atm, even DE has 2x PUs' burst.
These are all single or 2 skills summarizing, rests assure everyone has their own builds, but class wise these are the debuffs you get.
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4 hours ago, SparkOne said:
Is it possible to cap a player Max stat to certain range like even tho u get medic acc or ch acc buff it stays at 250% max n not exceed watsoever
Same thing goes for Ch eva ….so giving SW 60% chance to survive factor...from being stunned
Also biggest thing to wait would what Lvl 60 Mechs would do ….will they just act a multiplier to current lvl 50 mech dmg or have something new rebalanced skills ….
Bad idea, would be a false statement and fooling the players around.
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12 hours ago, GoddessSand said:
Doing all that to improve the PU and nerf the SW will double down on nerfing the SW. The PUs, SEs, MEs, and WHs can see us coming if they so choose, leaving SWs, DEs, and CBs shouldn't be able to see us coming. With the DEs, CBs, MEs, and WHs having high def buffs, nerfing us makes everybody stronger and cannot be killed. PUs aren't supposed to tank SWs. However, I will say that there does needs some improvements on the PU front.
SE's however need a nerf to their movement speed, like big time. They shouldn't be able to travel faster than a 180 bike as that's double the speed of any player and with their slows makes them go 10 to 200 times faster than others. That speed buff should only have them go 150 max or 140 in arkana. Also a nerf to their ch-acc as their Ch-acc reaches past 260% alone gives them closer to 80% ch-acc, which is too high. At most I say they should get 60% or 65% on their own and nerf to the MEs Ch-acc so they can get 75% maybe 78% ch-acc. Currently they can get enough ch-acc to reach 100% meaning they can stun us from a distance run uber fast and kill us while we are buffed and we can't even get close enough to do any damage without getting stunned first. With the SE detect skill, high ch-acc, and the ability to move faster than a bike allows the SE to get close enough for the SW to buff(if they buff too late they are good as dead) once SWs buff they SE just needs to run away for 10 seconds and then start attacking the SWs since SWs buffs are gone. Happens all the time. Having their Ch-acc as high as it is allows them to attack the SW freely and buff or no buff SWs die in seconds.
MEs need a nerf to their party buffs including the ch-acc as that gives everybody too much Ch-acc.Giving players anything above 15% is too high. Also, move a small amount of the ME def party buffs over to the ME self buffs and that reduced ch-acc to the ME self buff as well.
CBs also need a nerf to their movement speed as they shouldn't be allowed to travel faster than bikes as well. Giving them the same as the SE or less is what I recommend.
SWs buffs are now way too short or way too small. If players maintain their buffs for Ch-acc, then the SWs need a increase in duration of escape artist to 13 seconds and ch-eva so the SW can get 20k which it is currently capped at 19k, Players are getting 270 to 290 ch-acc which is 80~100% ch-acc and that's too high since ch-eva is the SWs only saving grace. If players have their ch-acc reduced that get them then increasing the duration of escape artist to a bit longer to about 13 seconds would be helpful since everybody has high def buffs that last longer than 15 seconds.
Just a thought, what about increasing Shadow strike slightly make it 5 pts to use and void slash reduced by the amount shadow strike got increased and make void slash 3 pts to use?
Not sure what else to talk about.I agree with all that, only thing is that PU's ch-acc max is set around 265% which is the lowest between al classes to have any surviving chances against a Sw even if you build your PU solely to try withstand a Sw trying to stun 1/3 of it's stuns, despite the new Mind over Body buff
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1 hour ago, Norleras said:
I personally love the manual aim for certain classes like WH. Although, manual aim AoE pull was just too stupidly good.
It indeed is good. @kingzan78 if you need help look for me
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41 minutes ago, Daddy said:
i debated removing the manual aims but they are useful for SW detection as you can aim it wherever. I think i removed like 2 tho. its pretty common in atomic tree which is why i kept that one, and since you would need to most likely pic between dot or atomic i left one in both. enfeeble was always a manual aim and i think its better that way.
I have never experienced any problem at all using manual pointing, indeed it is a lot helpful to include certain area of ground to be affected to get more targets in it, now removing the manual pointing would act as a nerf to this class as many targets would not be hit by these debuffs.
If for anyone it's a problem playing with manual pointing I simply suggest an evaluation of their skills bar/tab to make it more effective, I presonally can manually point and use those manual skills very effectively withing the range of minimum possible waste of time, humanly speaking.
I can help out if anyone needs, but do not remove manual pointing lol, also as you said: those are helpful to discover a Sw, so removing would be another nerf.
I suggest more practice rather then changing the manual aim.
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35 minutes ago, Recognized said:
If sw using ghost walk n then bike. Our ch eva buff is gone. That ghost walk buffs only remains if u still in invisibility
Point is that you get your chance to bike away or run away with buffs that help you to escape. Only thing PU had was fade to count on to escape which is now broken.
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On 11/12/2019 at 5:57 AM, Norleras said:
PU DoTs have more AoE than ever, though. If it doesn't say on the in-game descriptions, ignore it. Read the skill changes spreadsheet. The descriptions in-game are in the process of being corrected. Besides, leave the MEs to the SWs if you're willing.
That relations thing does not work, It was never meant to be that way, the original logics/relations between classes were widely differerent to what those've been narrowed to.
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PU's fade is useless now, to guarantee that it could not fade in PvP against SWs (on 1 man request) and bike away you took off this class's only surviving possiblity in times of bad moments, now fade is like a bug that happens even in PvE so often that it's almost a useless skill.
SWs can still fade and bike, it does not make it fair that Sw also can bike away in the same way. Not just bike away but also walk away with ch-eva, eva and speed boost. So it's not fair at all this change to PU's fade
It was a good skill to be used when you were on Firing Squad and players attack you, you could atleast fade and wait a bit on CDs and counter attack. Now
I'm spending 1 skill point on a skill that is ''half bugged' and has nearly no use, hoping to be able to bike away from mobs before anyone of those goes in attack animation.
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Just to let everyone know It's been updated to match with the current patch for now.
Skill Feedback
in General Discussion
Posted
How do I get any understanding of what is the level of the 2 players you used to catch those SS with, it tells no names no players level nor the class. Nor time or date are mentioned.
I've got a few to show but I did not take for forum purpose so no date in those either, but rest can be checked,