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Fenril

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Fenril last won the day on September 10 2023

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    Eden Eternal

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  1. [This is going to be a long reply, so, please, bear with me and thanks for your time and patience.] Can I be honest? Like... real honest? I haven't tried Arena this time (after a five years hiatus), but I heard that one of its biggest problems was fixed (a very small map that would favor any AoE class), so I'm in no position to talk about Arena balancing specifically, but one thing I'm 100% sure: some players of this game hide behind stronger players, which powers up/feeds up something I call "pack mentality", and that is the reason why Arenas aren't popular. In Eden, there is this "pack mentality". I've observed that people here take "guilds" very seriously. Maybe that is why you've shunned down one of my suggestions in the past (the one that would limit the ammount of people per guild, thus inevitably increasing competition). You said that you can't prevent people from playing with their friends if that's what they want, and there is really no argument against this, but in the end, this "pack mentality" hurts the game more than it helps. Pvp should be about FUN, about challenging yourself everytime you step in the pvp-arena, about unpredictability. If you're hiding behind the back of stronger team mates and you're constantly winning, why the hell would you risk losing to someone that "you" (aka your team) are/is constantly beating up? That would hurt your ego (maybe even your guild's reputation, idk), and who in the world enjoys having their ego hurt? That's why the most played pvp scenarios are TW and GvG, where you can bring your whole gang to back you up. Not to mention that, when you're on top for so long and you lose, you feel dismayed. It has happened before, according to people that have been playing Eden throughout all these years I was away. Also... it takes A LOT OF TIME to gear up, to actually "be ready to enjoy pvp", and even so, there is no "enjoying pvp" if you're not in a strong guild, mainly because no one likes to lose constantly. Not to mention that, in order to be accepted by a strong guild, you need to play with what they want/need, as their leaders and most popular members already play the best dps's classes in the game. Unfortunately, this is something beyond your control. This "pack mentality" favors big pvp modes, server-dominance-goals, which pushes players away from the game. If you're new to the game and, after 6 months, you're still not ready to face the strongest players in the game, you inevitably feel demotivated. You feel like you're worthless and that you just wasted your precious time... and for what? For trying to kill some xXxNaRuToxXx that you don't even know who it is but is constantly jumping on your dead body just to tease you? It's true that Eden has some serious balancing problems and class-identity issues, but this time, I honestly believe it has nothing to do with your decisions, so don't fret. The problem is the "pack mentality" powered by insecurities (the fear of losing constantly and feeling worthless) and how it favors massive pvp-modes. These pvp modes have its particularities, its own metas, which also hurts the game. Imo, the only way to remedy this is to limit the ammount of players per guild (10 members max) and developing battle-royale pvp modes to bring back classes that cannot be used in TW (or mobbed GvG's) simply because they won't even be able to reach the enemies to begin with. (Do you remember Elysian Island? I played it a few times and I found it really fun. With a few tweaks, maybe you can create a fun pvp mode that people can play.) You can keep Territory Wars open, but this pvp mode needs a rework... the game should be able to divide the guilds equally on both sides, otherwise, there will be days where we won't be able to enjoy pvp because there will be 10 guilds on blue side and 2 on red side... Plus, everything I mentioned here would actually make things easier when balancing the game in general. When the most played pvp modes are those with tons of people in it, buffing/nerfing one single class could disrupt the entire scenario and it's hard to predict the outcome. I heard you suffered backlash when you first nerfed Gravity Manipulator. If my memory serves me well, back in cap95/100, we had tons of GM's jumping around, one-shotting people. Despite the terror that GM's brought to TW's and GVG's, those were good times, and we could see a lot of different classes being used. I've been studying other mmorpg's (not to mention recalling how things were in other mmorpg's I played throughout my life), and I have noticed that I've never experienced anything like Eden TW/GvG before. The only two exceptions being Royal Quest and Albion, which I did not play personally, but I've been watching videos recently and it's crazy... so much effects going on, so much things happening at the same time that it's completely overwhelming. I doubt people are exactly aware of what's happening there 100% of the time, which, in my opinion, impoverishes the game experience. Oh, and just so you know, in these past months, our guild have been trying to equip a lot of people... we actually managed to equip some, like around 10 members or a bit more, but they left the game. When questioned (because I'm inconvenient as fu... lol), their answers were practically the same: It takes too much time for everything, plus, I depend on you guys too much, and we're past this era... look at the most popular games nowadays and see it for yourself... I may depend on my team, but if I'm good enough, I can beat my enemies single-handedly and they don't require months of preparation before I can actually experience pvp fully.
  2. [I don't know what happened, but the entire structure of my message was damaged, distorted, so I decided to repost it.] @Locsta Well, I've finished gemming my set (except for the elemental resistances stones, which do not directly increases Assassin's damage potential that much) and have been testing the damage output in TW, specially, ('cause it's the most available pvp-mode during the week). So far, I've noticed a few things that makes Assassin a lackluster class. They are: 1. This class relies too much on gem procs, certs procs and even Encourage buff + pod buff to actually deal a huge chunk of damage. Nothing wrong with that; with "needing a few requirements in order to do its job", but since gems, certs, etc; have around 1% chance of proc'ing, then, in the end, it's all about the players personal luck, which gives the feeling of "wasted time building a class that does not depends on my ability as a player". For some people, it's ok if this class just breaks crystals, but for those who actually wanna play the class, it's a shame and it mischaracterizes the class. 2. Considering the ammount of movespeed we have today (and how people are constantly moving in pvp arenas) and how Assassin's skills are executed in-game (in front of him, like skillshots, except for Sprinting Stab, which has a small AoE if you distribute kp's in the respective talent), this class depends heavily on the activation of stun certs and necklace enchantment (be it sleep or knockdown) to be able to hit it's full combo once (imagine what is like trying to hit 2, 3 full combos to kill someone). This class deserves a "fear", "immobilize" or a "huge slow debuff" after using sprinting stab, imo. This won't break the class as people can still swap to a shield, and it would help this class a lot in "at least having an opportunity to do its job". Speaking of Shields... 3. Stats that help countering this class, which are many: Overcapped-Block (and the lack of tools to help break through / so far, what comes to my mind are the strike stone, the demonic cestus and that trophy from Bushi, but if you wear the Demonic Cestus, you lose triple hit hate from the Angelic one, and if you wear Bushi, you also lose a lot of triple hit hate from Sagi), Defense, Evasion, Overcapped-Physical-Resists. So many "barriers" this class needs to overcome in order to shine that enhances the "if you're lucky, then you get a kill, if you're not, you get killed" feeling. Long story short: too much rng involved, while others classes doesn't depend on rng that much to shine. I have also tried Kage (Wind Stance), and this class has stun + silence, which helps a lot, but it lacks damage. Before you can finish off your opponent, he starts moving and simply walks away or fight you back. (Let's not forget the ability to swap to a shield after being stunned.) So... in the end, this is what I call "class identity issue". The class cannot execute its job unless an infinite list of requirements are met, some that aren't even in your control, leading the class to execute another job that clearly does not fit the class "fantasy", "purpose". I firmly believe that this is part of what's driving people away from the game. Sometimes, they get full hyped to play a class that has caught their attention and either they build it just to realize it's not usable, or people tell them in advance and then they get frustrated and leave the game.
  3. I think I get your point. Well... what can I say? Balancing MMORPG's has always been a huge challenge and, so far, there is not a single company that's actually achieved a good balancing state. I played lots and lots of MMORPG's, and even Final Fantasy XIV that is deemed to be "near perfectly balanced" is actually not, according to a lot of players and content creators on YouTube, Reddit, and other social media. It's natural that Vendetta Staff will find this task as challenging as it really is. Back in cap 95/100, I tried everything I could/had at my disposal to turn my Assassin into a, well, true Assassin. Jordan also helped me a lot with advices on trophies and gems and stuff like that. So, in the end, I made a triple hit build and a P-atk + Triple hit hybrid build. None of those actually worked as I expected. (Meaning that Assassin wouldn't kill no one, except for a Gravity Manipulator every now and then. I even spoke with Noka, who was a great Assassin back in that day, and he told me to just give up hope and play Assassin as a finisher class amongst parties, which is, in my humble opinion, preposterous to say the least, considering how Assassins are in every other mmorpg or even other games as well.) Nowadays, I'm positive that Assassin's damage has improved (probably thanks to Sagi+Dark Ninja) but still, it's really really hard to kill someone with a full combo. It's as you stated before... stats are really easy to cap now, so, almost everyone have around 50%+ slash-resist, 100% Eva, 40K+Def, DMG-reduc certs and buffs, Silence cert, etc, leading Assassin to the same boring and not-adequate-role of Crystal Capper from 6 years ago (the class name is Assassin, not Miner). But what else can we do? I can also understand Jordan's reluctance in buffing the class, which can (not necessarily will) raise the number of Assassins in TW/GvG greatly, which may "kill the meta" as we know today and thus infuriate the community. However, I've always concluded that Eden Eternal has too many classes and this leads the game to serious class identity issues, which makes things even harder for Jordan. That said, this is why we've been constantly providing suggestions, in hope that the meta will change, will improve, and "unusable" classes could become usable and everyone could have fun (not to mention reducing Jordan's burden, as he is a human being like us, he needs to sleep, to eat properly, to exercize, to have a normal and beautiful life; if he stays day after day thinking about ways of improving the pvp scenario or balancing specific classes, he might end up missing good moments amongst friends and family; besides, brainstorming [between us, players] could trigger new and good concepts and solutions, right??). The same applies for Arch-Elementalist, Mecha Ares, etc; But, to be honest, I believe that smaller balancing patches wouldn't hurt us that much and it would be a great way to collect data and imputs on the long road of balancing everything out.
  4. @Locsta I think I understand - more or less - what you're trying to say, but, to be honest, I do believe that Eden's problem is structural. Before we talk about balancing, I think we need to pay attention to which pvp modes are most played (presuming we're talking about pvp, because the m-dps situation in PvE is more related to personal preference and "parties leaders orders" rather than balancing in general; I'll explain it later). Imo, the most played pvp modes are TW and GvG. TW, by itself, provides no room for testing anything, as it's general consent that you need to have at least 3 supports and 3 healers in your party (and the healers have to clean cc's diligently, cause if its timed correctly, you never get cc'ed for more than 1s, reason why you always see HS, GK and probably ED together). It's essentially team-based pvp, no room for anything else. That said, I'm not surprised that parties intentionally avoid putting more dps's on their setups (or even good and unused classes), 'cause the moment their adversaries realize they have changed the setup, they'll abuse Reaver, Anni, and every cc class possible, forcing the first party mentioned to get back to the usual meta. Now... if we're going to talk about GvG, things could be different. Some classes that are good and have cool concepts could be used, and I'd encourage people to do so, to try and have fun despite of who's winning and who's losing, but who am I in the grand scheme os things, right? Some classes aren't weak at all, but due to the fact that we have more TW's along the week than we have "skirmish-like pvps such as GvG", people tend to avoid'em. It's not always "Jordan's Fault". Time Manipulator, for example, is a good class. Played correctly, deals a lot of damage and can kite the enemies and help the team, but no one uses it. Battlefield Poet is another decent class. So far, I've only seen Asa using it, and he gets some kills for sure (in TW, imagine what he could do in GvG or smaller skirmishes). Now, about the PvE issue... I believe it has more to do with "that's how things are, so either you fit in or get out". Sure, some dungeons, like AT/DF, reduces the ammount of cast speed, what severely hurts mages, but only some bosses from AT/DF and CC have true-elemental resists, while all of'em have true-phys-resists and auto-attacks-damage-reduction. What does this means? It means that, in theory, mages should be stronger at AT/DF, if weren't for the cast speed debuff. Jordan explained, in a topic I made, how true-resists works. To this day, people still haven't figured out that is pointless to bring Trainer+Lethal Arrow together, each wearing different -phys resists accessories and trophies, as the bosses true-phys-resist won't allow the resists to go below 10, for example. Sure, Lethal increases the damage dealt by the party, and that is cool, but why not bringing him with full-dps set as well, since he won't be contributing to shred resistances anymore? But, then again, "that's how things are done here, either you fit in or get out". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [Edit] I have realized that Lethal Arrow doesn't have a +P-Atk with Bow KP-thingy, hence why people won't bring him as a full-dps. Nevertheless, he could always be replaced with another dps, another Anni, Assassin, Asura or even a Blade Master, considering that trophies and accessories (such as TK combos, Zarloe's, Lv100 Blade's, Syntha's, etc) reduces ALL phys-res, not only pierce. The only exception would be on Celeste, from AT, that apparently has an aura that deals tons of damage if you get too close to her and would eventually kill the Meele-DPS. Point is... we're not exactly lacking options. It's just that people don't want to brainstorm and find new ways of doing things.
  5. Hm... It was around 10:15/10:30 pm, Brazil time, which is around 3 hours before the reset (it happens at 1 am in Brazil). If I'm not mistaken, we were on channel 1, facing Libra. The guys with me were: Gerlokx, Atreyous, Sowil and PleXiuS. Thanks in advance. (If there is anything on my end, my client-side, that I can do to help you locate the issue, I'm up for it)
  6. Hey, guys. How are ya? Idk if this is the right section to report bugs, but if it's not, sorry. We were doing Libra right now and we defeated her normally, but then something abnormal happened. She didn't disappear for a while, and she was floating in the air, her ''stomach'' pointing towards the floor and then she simply disappeared and we didn't get the rank screen to choose the cards. We stood up inside for a while, but nothing happened and we had to leave. Is there any way to check logs to see what happened? Does this ever happened to you guys before? 😞 Our sparkles... It's already hard to find a party to do CC... and now this happens...
  7. Thanks for the explanation. ❤️ Seems like I was following the right "train-of-thought". Well... so far, I haven't noticed "Elemental-true-resistances" on any boss. Maybe I didn't pay much attention? This means that we can actually reduce the boss, let's say, fire resistance to -75? Hm... I wonder why almost everyone have shunned down m-dps classes... Maybe it's because some bosses drop a lot of cast speed, but still... there are ways to over-cap cast-speed... Following this "absence of elemental-true-resists" (presuming that I did pay attention and am not mistaken), shouldn't m-dps classes be stronger than p-dps??? Or is there something I'm failing to see? If the Bosses do actually have elemental-true-resists, then please disconsider this question. Thanks again! ❤️
  8. Hi, guys! How are you doing? I came back to Eden after 5~6 years away and I noticed that some new bosses have something called "True Physical Resistances". How does it works? Lila (AT) has 60 phys-resists and 10 phys-true-resists... does this means that we can only debuff her up to 10 physical-resists? She won't go below 10? Is that it or I misunderstood it? Can someone please clarify this to me? Thanks! ❤️
  9. "The amount of non-mounted moveSPD available in the game breaks a lot of core components of a healthy gameplay on PVP. In the other hand, it's exhausting to do content on PVE while being slow." I agree. I'm actually pretty happy with the ammount of speed I get from every source when it comes to doing Palace of Dreams or Running... the problem is: buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff every 10, 15 or 30 minutes. I actually never really understood why every buff have a different duration. It is something that I can't understand, no matter how hard I try. I see no practicality in this, nor a decent reason for things to be this way. Plus I always need to log a second account to keep around, buffing me. Not a huge problem for me, but I admit that having native-movespeed-buffs on specific pve maps would be a very welcoming QoL improvement. (If my memory serves me well, Jordan actually gave us a huge movement speed buff on Shaxian Fae Field and that was awesome. It wouldn't take me 1:20 to fully-complete my entries anymore. I'd do it in 30~40 minutes.) On PvP, though, we do have a lot of movespeed indeed. This is something I pointed out a few years ago when I talked about latency. We have so much movespeed that those with 150+ms sometimes just realize they're under attack when the enemy team is already casting their 3rd, 4th skill already. That happened at yesterday's TW. When we realized that Garden was approaching the crystal, they were already "on top of our chests, trying to strangle us". Sometimes we just get cc'ed "by the wind" before we can actually see who's cc'ing us. Not to mention classes such as Assassin, Berserker, Blade Master, and all classes that are ''meele'' and have a ''dash ability''... those skills often "hit the air", 'cause we have so much movespeed that your target isn't even there anymore, has gone 3-4s ago, but "its ghost" remained there. "Oh, but that's your problem, you're the one with the "slower connection". Well, latency and connection speed are not the same thing. Plus, this server houses people from all around the world, specially Latin America, North America, Europe, sometimes even Australia and Asia. If only people from North America gets to play with 20ms or less, then we can easily reach the conclusion that too much movespeed is actually harming players from other countries, thus providing North-americans a clear advantage on pvp (taking in consideration that the server is located in Canada; if the server is located in France, then Europeans gets the advantage and benefits more from excessive ammount of movespeed we have; I think you get the point). "Oh let's not forget move speed pet is a thing so if someone has it and you don't when your buffs are nerfed, good luck chasing them down." Yeah, this is a problem. One that could easily be solved by nerfing the ammount of movespeed these pets provide. But then, another problem would rise up... one that's been haunting this community ever since the release of this server: nerfing = comitting an atrocity. This is how people see things here, and the reason why Jordan was unfairly flamed in the past. Do you remember when Conjurers had a 16s fear, with no fear immunity? This was prior to the release of Awakened DoS sets. Sometimes, we would get feared and would fear the enemies parties and we would reach a stall. I once participated in a GvG that my party found the enemy's party between northwest and southwest crystals... we feared each other for 30 minutes. It was insane. When Jordan nerfed Conjurer's fear and added an imunity, at least 10 people flamed him. They didn't care if it was the ''right move'' (to nerf that stupid fear). They just felt like they were losing something, thus "Jordan had to be blamed". Nobody likes to lose something. We all get upset. But if we manage to see the whole situation "from above", like if we were watching a chess match, then we can clearly understand why the Queen (Conjurer) was the most OP piece in that board. We all need to try and see things from different perspectives, even if sometimes we need to nerf or adjust something. Sometimes, we may win more from nerfing specific points than lose. 😉
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