Uninformed

I would suggest moving the early NB back to the time it was before the update as there were good numbers at that time, this seemed to be pretty good for both sides. There are a large group of players from indonesia Korea and other asian countries that are currently missed out by the change in times. I believe the late NB is moved to a time it was at previously when there was very poor turnout

Shocked and saddened by the news another of our SB family gone far too soon, will always remember the good times, RIP Wuff. Will always remember the great times in PVP both as a true ally that you knew would have your back no matter the odds and a great and honourable rival.

I will try to give a bit of a fair breakdown on this Mar, from my understanding and with a bit of my opinion to fill in blanks. What we have is 2 groups of people that very much care about the game in different ways. Bash and Vivi have taken on the game when it would have died and have put an enormous amount of work into keeping it running, fixing inherited issues (such as the Safeguard issue the bugs in the consignment, the IV bug that allowed perma buffs, the Kahli exploit, to name but a few) they have also worked to try to develop the game move it forward and add new content. Then you have us players, alot of us have been around since the low level caps in the games original launch, we have put in 1000s of hours playing our favourite classes. Its what we choose to do with our spare time and we wouldn't do it for all this time if we didn't love the game. After changes are made the players will fall into groups 1) We like the changes 2) We feel the changes as a whole are ok 3) We don't like the changes as we feel it affects our class in a way we don't like (our favourite rota doesn't work so well, our favourite skill doesn't work as well) 4) We feel the changes have made a significant problem with the game Now as is the way with people we will be more vocal if we fall into the latter 2 groups, this means that the feedback tends to be negative to all changes. A good example on this would be the Halloween event, I know people have said that they appreciate that Vivi put on an event even with all the issues sorting out the servers but what vivi and Bash have seen is the people complaining that the event had bugs early on and their was no dungeon. On the other hand alot of the player base isn't aware of the issues they have had with servers and how much work has gone into this. In an Idea world Vendetta would have a person or people to act as the communication between the developers and players, but this is probably not possible due to Vendetta's limited resources. This would be beneficial all around, for Bash and Vivi it would let them spend their time doing the development and game hoasting (that I believe is what they enjoy) it would also act as a filter so that when they do changes rather than just see the negative feedback they can do initial investigation into this and Vivi would get for example the community loves 80% of it 10% is ok but we have a couple of issues where things haven't scalled up well from 1v1 in the test server to larger pvp. As for the players we could get proper issues dealt with rather than player x derailing all feedback as they don't want to have to change their rota or they feel they should be able to kill a de in 2 hits.

As Larrisa has already said he has got people to try to get FK times he has posted in the forums he has got people to go FK side and ask those that he or others see on, including when more where on for AK. All you do is complain and look to undermine anything anyone else trys to do that is positive. Larrisa has asked you to collect these times of all these players that are on when you are or to encourage them to post here. Your response is to further complain. You have added nothing to this thread or towards trying to help get BG's at the best time for as many as possible. We have got times from the Asian players that have engaged with us such as Chardos. I am going to make this simple for you, If you don't think that Larrisa's data is representative then get FK's and others on to post here the times they can play and what time zone those times are in. Getting those that play at your preferred time is massively more constructive than you constant destructive and distraction posts that add 0. And the more people you get to post that play around your time the more likely you are to show this is a good time to have a BG, after all why should there be a BG only for your preferred time? If you have nothing to add other than complaints then do everyone a favour and stop responding.

Timezones are not always a true indicator, like Misha lives east coast USA but will go off earlier than most European players as this suites their lifestyle, which is why larrisa has been asking as many people as he can in game and in forums. The reality is some people will not be included as they do not respond and say when they can play, the more that do the easier it is to get a complete picture

Sand A much better post, the reason I go into the Brazillians I know is they nare the people playing from this region, they could make it perfect for 2.4 billion Chinese and Indian people but if no one plays from those countries it doesn't help. Again the premier weekend AK saw half the numbers of what there was before it was moved, which shows how bad its current timing is. We need it moved and we need as many people as possible to engage to get this time right for as many people as possible, whilst also getting as many players as possible bigger BG's they can attend. We currently have neither of these with alot of players unable to attend any AK's or NB's which is obviously a bad situation and will result in players drifting away. I hope that Vivi does look at what is being said and engages with the players that are working to try to find a better solution so that it can be improved in the very short term. From something that might not have been ideal, I think most people would agree, this has become the biggest issue in the game and should be sorted before anything else.

Sand every time I post in this forum you try to make it a shit show either with comments about how its worse for you / your class or by just pointlessly argueing. You are a good if mild example of why most people gave up on the forums and the game is worse for it. We can agree the current time is terrible for the Brazilian players in the game so why argue? and why disrupt and lesson the point we are trying to make that its bad for the majority of players by trying to show its worse for you specifically! Its not right to make AK and NB especially just for you it needs to be at the time we can get the most people there. Please be constructive and give Larrisa time periods of when you can go it rather than be your usual destructive self. Notice the difference between our posts in none of mine do I say its bad for me specifically I mention ranges of players and how groups of players cannot attend, while you are about how its bad for you!

Sand you need to look at timezones For Brazil players its 2am start, so its not a good time for them. EvilwitchBR, SaroneBR Rossitta are all Brazillian and have all said they can no longer go to the main BG's

A post for Max1 as his English is not the best He has said that due to the movements of the BG's there are now 0 BG's there is now also no post AK / NB PVP for europeans on the weekends so he is likely to take a break from the game as there is nothing for him to do.

Not wanting to be that guy but part of the issue for new players is the skills, with extremely high buffs/debuffs and dps most new players continuously get 1-2 shotted in pvp so can do nothing, its tough for them to level and get ok gear +9/10 accesories etc then after being patient they hit PVP and bang they get stomped with 0 chance to effect pvp. This results in them getting abuse for going to BG's as they just give away kills with no chance of helping. Also there has been little credit in the game for those that look after New players on the RG side Filomena has kept many many new players playing when they would have left, Kyoko also. One of the issues for new players was that they see no one you run around an empty map and see no one at all. The DG added to Encocia was good for a while but it became irrelevant no one does it anymore so no one goes there. There is also a lack of events, ball events in Encocia were good as new players could join in but bosses were ok to see people. Lord Konton did a fantastic write up years ago on a whole range of great range of changes that would have made the game more newbie friendly, but nothing happened. Also need to make the forums more friendly for players, too often you post something and get flamed or someone trys to change the subject, alot of people do not come on the forums for this reason. Admittedly this may have changed as I gave up on the forums a long time ago. I am going to be honest I don't enjoy any quests they all get repetitive and dull. I am not a fan of too many mobs in a PVP zone you want a zone that encourages PVP the Nemi Bowl with a boss in the middle was great, maybe some escort / destroy missions as well, anything to encourage pvp when it will be close enough. But you need to make things worth people pvp'ing over without the items dropping making one side too strong from continuously getting the drop.

There needs to be something for when the majority of players play. While numbers on the moved ak were 50% of the old time its also killed off the normal game pvp time for Europeans/ majority of africa and the Brazillian players. There is litterally nothing now for European players that work. Sat AK 4-5am too late to stay up for to early to get up for Wed AK 4-5pm so people will still be at work same with NB either while people are at work for the first one and asleep for second one. I appreciate you are trying new things but needs some thought on this as you can't do changes for the few Americans at the expense of the many. I hope you don't take long to revert this as we are likely to lose players, the majority of my friends in the game play for the Saturday ak to NB time and now they have nothing.

OK this is all improve CB, but if everyone just wants their class better for less points you end up with a mess, we need balance not our own classes to be way better. If you get some of this what are you prepared to lose?

it should not be easy to kill a tank

I am not keen on this approach as I feel the main issue with the game is buff/debuffs dps and heals have got out of hand. I have seen a lot of new players quit after getting fed up after spending ages to get decent gear then enter pvp and continuously get 1-2 shotted. If you adjust these classes to what they should be while leaving the medics to last the medics heals and buffs will still be breaking the game. Medics need to have 40k heals as the debuffs and dps across the board is so broken, even with full ancient DOT reduction I can take 7k per tick damage from DOT. I also agree with Bikini that you need to look at what new skill stones do to pvp as they have a huge potential to further break already broken PVP, it would have been a better approach to fix before you add new stuff. Lets remember the game sees its biggest drops in player base as soon as the novelty of new stuff wears off and people become fed up with how its made pvp worse. I am not an expert on either class so I will say this take the classes back to what they are supposed to be, don't look at any class just as a counter to 1 other class look at how they fit in overall. Look at larger pvp. A cb should be jack of all trades, this is what it was created as, it should not out defend the whipper (who is a secondary tank class) it should not out dps SW's, it should not just be a defender light as it currently is. Strip back alot of what was added, remember that defences have not increased with attacks as levels increase, as piercing stats have also increased. PU, a PU should be a glass cannon, it does damage but when directly attacked it should not be tanky, no matter the build. Remember that its cacoons are on top of other buffs so you need to think about how these interact, it should not be impossible for a WH / CB to pull those in a cacoon with medic buff. As with all other classes the PU's buffs should not make them god like and they should not only rely on having cacoons up to do more damage than other unbuffed classes. The PU has seen an incredible amount of "improvements" that have been to the detriment of the game over the last couple of years, removing charge times on skills, adding extra debuffs (Acc/ch acc decrease, extra slows) and increasing buffs of their cacoons. The slows need to go back to what they are, especially the new on needs to go, and the acc debuff also needs to go they have evasion on the cacoon they should not get an addition to this with an additional long range skill. Overall DPS should be reduced I was in PVP yesterday and was seeing 2 PU's making 6k hp hits on a buffed de in mech, this isn't right. Decrease the DPS in cacoons especially the critical, the critical PU's can get to now is silly, however slightly increase their base damage out of cacoons. However to do this you also need reduce medic heals or PVP gets even more medic dominated. Overall remember good pvp is not first to stun wins!

They have been investigated many times and allowed to play so if we are using Pepper as the WH bench mark then this is the damage benchmark on SW, you cannot use the highest of one and not the other. But this is proof of my point you say ah look at pepper because they have an exact set up to survive 1 rota then all WH are too strong, but when the response is ah but look at the damage the highest damage SW does you say oh but that is not the normal we cannot count them. Its not just gear you would need to change its skill set up. And yes WH rely on defence and void so if attacked by a stun are stunned where as an SW has a chance to avoid this.

Correct, also your build and skill set will depend on your role with your team mates. No point being high acc if you are there to hurt tanks and meds and you want high debuffs for this so maybe less hp is ok to get the skill points. If you are there to pull in or shut down evasion classes you go acc at the cost of DPS and as you are lkely to be counter pulled you need a tanky set.

I am not ignoring I am saying if you gonna set Pepper as the standard for Whippers you would need a SW geared and skilled purely as anti tank, you are not this. You can't go this is the pinnacle of tankyness now we gonna take a anti evasion skilled/ geared dps and see what damage it does you need to compare like for like. For instance look at the damage Blackligress does to all the whippers medics other tanks. So is this what we should say all SW can do? and say all SW need a nerf because of this one player? You cannot have it both ways of everyone can be as tanky as pepper but hey we take a standard non specialist skilled / geared SW to see what damage they can do. You keep saying a wh has an advantage as they can actually hit (if they are anti evasion class geared) yet you ignore the advantages SW's have in this match up.

Firstly tanks should not kill dps in 1 rotation and DPS should not kill tanks in 1 rotation this is not skill! Whippers can get high enough CH acc to stun a SW2/3 of time (non arkana form pulls) if they are not full ch eva build but that is about a 1.5k reduction to your DPS in this form. If you want to say the WH has a big advantage in stun length (no whipper I know has full Stuns and Disables, and you can not really count the single pull stun as its broken). you have to concede the SW advantages Choice of when to attack (also meaning can choose to go through rota before putting on evasion, or attack when the whipper has no shields) Speed to get out of combat if disabled Much higher DPS Being completely unhittable in ghost walk Insane debuff for 9 points no other class can get close to this debuff and will have to spend way more points to get just a part of it.

Hi Sand I have both a whipper and a SW and I know its not possible to get the whipper to cover both the maximum evasion and CH evasion, only way this can happen is if the whipper is given a medic acc buff and the SW does not get the corresponding evasion buff. Also to be able to kill a dps in 1 rota the wh would need to move away from acc / ch acc random and jewels meaning they should miss you a lot more. Should a tank ever die to 1 rota? this is not balance and you have told me you are geared for evasion classes not tanks so that you can kill a tank 1 rota shows the balance is very bad. Only Queenpepper is queenpepper, and to compare you would need to take a SW with all the max randoms jewels ancient spanner'd etc specifically to take on a tank. This you are not. You are a very good SW in what you aim to do. I have often complemented your tactics in the game but you are not an anti tank SW, I have seen that when you attack me in comparison to others.

Hi Vivi Firstly thanks for the reply. Some of it is from threads and some is from what GS have said in game, ie that an SW with anti evasion gear cannot kill the top WH in 1 rota was proof WH's need to be nerfed. If you look at what I say I am asking the GS to think about the whole game I am not pinning it on them, I do not say its them that have created the narrative that DPS should kill all in 1 rota nor do I say they are actively pushing this. I am asking them not to just make it first stun wins.

OK to your points WH yes "only losses move speed but they cannot switch to DPS in an instant like DE and CB so them having no DPS is only while they are attacked, not exactly a hardship Evasion buffs mean things miss you meaning you get no damage not reduced the main whipper buff is 30 seconds not 35 so that's 15 seconds cool down while the WH is vulnerable and with slow speed does not get to kite out the back like an SE or SW PU has perma cacoon again the advantage the DE and CB have is they can atr anytime switch to HIGH DPS the WH does not have this option.

I don't really like coming on the forum but what I keep hearing has alarmed me so much that I feel I have to. First off a bit of back ground, as people that know me my main class is a whipper but people that really know me will also know that until the current cap I ran a secondary main as a Shadow walker (with around 15k kills on SW in ASB alone). I have also ran well over 100 hours active game time on all classes except CB's. Now for what I have to say, there is an alarming and detrimental push by certain DPS players to have easy kills, for a long time this game has been dominated by first to stun wins. For all classes to work the TANKS have to be able to survive full rota's of all classes, lining up your skills and pressing 1,2,3,4,5,6, z, 1,2,3,4 and being guaranteed to kill your opponent is not having skill! Recently there has been a call of whippers are not tanks they are secondary tanks so they should not be able to survive a rota from a dps class. Now the key word in secondary tank is the word TANK, yes whippers should not be able to survive as long as the primary tank but they should be still able to TANK. If anyone utters the phrase but whippers are not tanks they are secondary... you know they are only out to gain an advantage and are not out for the good of the game. For the record I have never once heard any whipper on either side say hey a SW is not the primary DPS that's the PU so the SW should not be able to do any damage! Its time the GS's (again dps dominated) started thinking holistically and PU's and SW's should not have guaranteed kills just because they get the first stun in this is not balance! DPS classes have had things far to easy since 54 cap and keep wanting things easier. I am not going to claim the game has ever been in balance, but its never been as bad as things have been since 65 cap. The WH has 2 functions Tank and control, Certain players that want an advantage want them to have neither. This is to the detriment of the game. SW say we are assasins we should be able to kill, and yes an SW should be able to kill key targets if not stopped, they should not be guaranteed kills on tanks. This is so bad I was even told that evidence tanks are too strong is that an FK SW (that has told me they are anti evasion geared with no anti tank set) cannot kill Pepper the tankiest WH (who spent a vast amount of time and effort to get that way) in 1 rota! I mean this is ridiculous seriously are GS's really lapping this up as they seem to be?

OK so lets look at this sensibly, ie why the whipper needs the ACC on the pulls So wh is a mele class along with SW, DE and CB so needs to close distance. CB can pull (and with Ice can get much more success than a WH can) but the main way the other classes close the gap to PVP is with a charge type skill, now there is a huge difference between charge and pull. If a wh misses the pull they do not close the gap, if a charge is missed you still close the gap so this is a massive advantage for charge skills. OK pull has a big advantage in that you can do more to disrupt in bigger pvp but again miss and you expose yourself to counter pulls (and lets face it wh isn't dodging much). Now lets look at the complete package Of the mele units, which class is the only not to have a cleanse? that's the WH the other 3 mele classes have speed boosts the WH has a speed debuff (making acc on pulls more important) of the 3 "tank" classes the wh has the worst defence buff of the 3 "tank classes the wh is the only one without a self heal skill Of all classes the whipper is the only one to have no attack boost skills at all! All the wh has is AOE and higher acc than any other class (the higher acc has always been the case but since 65 cap this has gone you only get it in pulls) There is a constant rhetoric against wh when other classes have huge advantages. The only class a wh has an advantage on 1v1 is the SE. Since 49 cap in asb the DPS classes have had a so easy life, easily being able to kill all but the tankiest people in stun lock (Hardly skillfull play to learn to hit a few buttons in order). this is what needs fixing not nerfing a class that struggles to run its function int the game. More that needs fixing is closing out the exploits! Certain people have killed pvp with constant abuse by cheating with exploits (with no bans ever being long and them being free to come back and do the same again).

I will say one more thing on this We have a lot of BG's limited in the day to make them even numbers per side, you never see more than 5 people register per side, if its just about even numbers you would see 10-20 register per side all the time for these BG.

why are you Nixel if you want players to have their say let them, I get you want this solution but you don't need to play down every other solution. Let people talk please