Armor 125 and Viridian Gorge Feedback

[hiersen]

Greetings,
Just to be clear before starting, I'm not hating on the content or anything, just saying my honest opinion, and maybe one that is shared with other people, it's an open discussion so please feel free to argument if you feel i'm wrong in anyway (but please be at least intelligent on the answers & don't just send a "you're wrong" and that's it)

• First : the armor 125.

The current state of 125 armor, except for a few (like Dark Charmer set) are completely disappointing, and often worse than their lvl 115 counterpart. While there is the slight possibility they will be able to be awakened in the future, at this specific point of time, they aren't worth at all. Sure, you get a bit of extra stats, but most of the set bonus get reduced % wise . less atk/m-atk, less dmg increase, less dmg mitigation, less wisdom/m-crit dmg (when comparing ancient spirit with liberator for exemple), less double/triple hit chance, for some, stats are completely lost (ex : you lose the 10% movespeed when switching from dark ninja to cursed spirit set, on top of loosing 2% double hit chance). 
Though I do agree the gems from viridian gorge might slightly help with this, the problem is still the same :
The 125 sets aren't worth it if you already optimized your 115 set, because the difference will be negligible at best, and so spending time and gold to make a new set with gems and enchant, and fortifying +14 with perfect bonus is a waste.
However, I do agree that they are easier to make than 115 sets (weirdly enough) due to the materials, and so gives the "non geared" player (new ppl/returning players) an easier time to get a decent set, but that's about it.
 

• Second, the Viridian Gorge problem.

I can understand that you want people to play together, however, it's a struggle to get the party of 10 going, and when we do, the rewards are disappointing at best. I've done it twice atm, and got roughly half what's needed for a gem... and that's counting the main quest! 

Let's say the drop rate stay the same, and i wanna fully gem one set for each "role" of the game (heal, physical heavy, physical light, magical light, and cloth dps) that's 5 set, with at least 8 gems which will be from Viridian Gorge. Assuming you only go for lvl 115 gems, are lucky enough to find a party, and get enough materials to make a gem every 2 days, that's 16 days a set, and almost 3 months for this, without counting heavy healing, and light healing. While it wouldn't be a problem if you could do it solo or with a simple party of 5 (not saying you can't do as 5, but it's gonna take a lot of time), the problem is you have first to find a raid party (8~10 people usually) , then actually have the time to do it. 

Please note this is my personal take on the update, you might agree or not with it, and feel free to give your own opinion.

Have a nice day o/


 

[Jordan]

Armor doesn't always have to be an upgrade. There is countless content releases in the patch where the latest armor is not better than the previous sets (just off the top of my head Awaken 95 where much better than gold 100's). Abyss 115 Armor all things considered is of Awakened Caliber and should be viewed as such.

Also just do the math on some of them (I used the example of Heavy Gold Healing set to someone the other day). You lose 5% cast speed, 5% M-CRIT DMG and 2% Skill Healing. You get way more of the other stats from the stat bonus, fortification increases and higher level gems. This more than makes up for any of the losses. Yes you can't really match things like DMG Dealt and DMG Taken but I move back to point one, you are comparing a gold armor set to an awakened armor set and in most cases the awaken armor usually is better than the set tier above anyway.

So please keep that in mind when it comes to feedback.

 

The dungeon allows for 10 players but the HP and such was designed for around 6 - 7 players. We did this to try and be more inclusive of the community so inviting people who maybe aren't really geared enough or aren't strong enough to have a huge impact isn't a waste of a party slot. This is probably the single most biggest in the game right now for new players who don't join Garden or Stardust. I have spent time talking with people who have just started or returned to the game and saw there struggles to get anything done. So atleast in this dungeon it won't hurt you to fill out your party with a couple of randoms who just want to play the game.

This content is designed to last and because of how the rates are designed you cant often get high drop values compared to the older tower-esk dungeons. Based on me spending several hours testing and tweaking each gem should 2 days of runs if you are on average luck, but from my testing youb will get a lot of high drops through out that. I think 2 days for a high powered gem is perfectly acceptable. However, if you disagree then theres not really anything wrong sticking with the DF/4T gems as I tried hard to make these new gems good but not outright replacements, so theres nothing wrong sticking with older stuff if you find it this way.

 

As I say with most feedback I am greatful, but i think more complain oriented feedback should be held for atleast a week or two as of the time you wrote this post the patch was only live for around 36 hours. So it's hardly tried and tested especially since you mentioned rates and only ran the dungeon for one days worth.

[ban-srul]

when Celestial Corridor weapon gems cant put into an unbound weapon. old player that got all set from cc and got lots more mate CC . they stop playing CC. they just carry their guildmate to CC. before they go CC with random people . but now end. i'm mean may be need to think again about CC gem can be put to unbound weapon again. for CC party recruit alive for other player that is non guildmate or same guild . CC gem is business for op player they can earn gold from sell CC gem. so that is the reason they do CC. thank a lots for reading my message . 

GOD Blessing Vendetta and All Staffs Healthy Wealthy and Happies. ^^

Edited September 3, 2023 by ban-srul

[Jordan]

18 hours ago, ban-srul said:

when Celestial Corridor weapon gems cant put into an unbound weapon. old player that got all set from cc and got lots more mate CC . they stop playing CC. they just carry their guildmate to CC. before they go CC with random people . but now end. i'm mean may be need to think again about CC gem can be put to unbound weapon again. for CC party recruit alive for other player that is non guildmate or same guild . CC gem is business for op player they can earn gold from sell CC gem. so that is the reason they do CC. thank a lots for reading my message . 

GOD Blessing Vendetta and All Staffs Healthy Wealthy and Happies. ^^

If we wanted CC gems to be traded we would have made them tradable.

This was technically speaking a bug/oversight which is why we fixed it. There is suppose to be a level of prestige for completing CC and not just be able to get the gems without touching the dungeon.

We left other gems as although i'd rather not have them being traded its not as big of a deal either. Although I was tempted to.

[ban-srul]

thank a lots reply my comment . but u can ask any GS about CC party now.  some people LF PT CC 1 to 3 days still cant find the party for CC  now . thank a lots again. i'm  will not make any suggestion about CC Gem any more. what i do now just try to help other player only . for newbie now they can do  only they stay at activity guild with handy guildmate or best leader . every thing good all for player hope they spend more to upgrade their character day by day ^^. hope all newbie will enjoy new patch .

[hiersen]

On 9/2/2023 at 12:33 PM, Jordan said:

Armor doesn't always have to be an upgrade. There is countless content releases in the patch where the latest armor is not better than the previous sets (just off the top of my head Awaken 95 where much better than gold 100's). Abyss 115 Armor all things considered is of Awakened Caliber and should be viewed as such.

Also just do the math on some of them (I used the example of Heavy Gold Healing set to someone the other day). You lose 5% cast speed, 5% M-CRIT DMG and 2% Skill Healing. You get way more of the other stats from the stat bonus, fortification increases and higher level gems. This more than makes up for any of the losses. Yes you can't really match things like DMG Dealt and DMG Taken but I move back to point one, you are comparing a gold armor set to an awakened armor set and in most cases the awaken armor usually is better than the set tier above anyway.

So please keep that in mind when it comes to feedback.

First, thanks for the answer, however it leads me to the following question :
Is it then safe to assume that these armor are gonna be awakening materials in the future? 

And for the 125 raid, i'll wait to make a better opinion on it  

Have a nice day

[Jordan]

6 hours ago, hiersen said:

First, thanks for the answer, however it leads me to the following question :
Is it then safe to assume that these armor are gonna be awakening materials in the future? 

And for the 125 raid, i'll wait to make a better opinion on it  

Have a nice day

I will not give a yes or no answer as whether I plan to do this or not, things could easily change at any point.

However, what I will confirm since someone has asked this privately. As of now and the foreseeable future Awaken gear will use the same system as 125 Weapons where anything you do to the pre-awaken version can be transfered to the awaken version. So if these gears become awakens, anything you do to the current release will be transfered up to the awaken (gems/forts/gearexp)

[Nanami]

Hello! I'll just be brief, my biggest issue with this patch is the smoke bomb changes.

I'd like to recommend they be completely disabled in PvP and returned to the original state they were before this patch. We used them to be able to change classes in combat during PvE to better adjust to the situation we're in and what we may need but didn't have. Because let's face it doing raids be it 10m or 25m sometimes the class change is extremely hard to do with certain people not grouping up, no holy sage, retreat getting messed up the moment someone uses their character to jump, etc.

The PvP side of it currently has just given a free 100% invisibility to every class that did not have one, not mention it's even easier to revive in combat in PvP now. I did about 4-6 revives in a matter of 1-2 minutes in TW earlier today, most of which were smoke bomb use. It's too easy to revive with them now, but PvE suffers while PvP was just buffed for everyone even healers can have a perma invis basically.  

That's all I have to say, thanks for reading and considering the change~

[Jordan]

13 hours ago, Nanami said:

Hello! I'll just be brief, my biggest issue with this patch is the smoke bomb changes.

I'd like to recommend they be completely disabled in PvP and returned to the original state they were before this patch. We used them to be able to change classes in combat during PvE to better adjust to the situation we're in and what we may need but didn't have. Because let's face it doing raids be it 10m or 25m sometimes the class change is extremely hard to do with certain people not grouping up, no holy sage, retreat getting messed up the moment someone uses their character to jump, etc.

The PvP side of it currently has just given a free 100% invisibility to every class that did not have one, not mention it's even easier to revive in combat in PvP now. I did about 4-6 revives in a matter of 1-2 minutes in TW earlier today, most of which were smoke bomb use. It's too easy to revive with them now, but PvE suffers while PvP was just buffed for everyone even healers can have a perma invis basically.  

That's all I have to say, thanks for reading and considering the change~

I'm up for anything of the sort, to be honest I was only going based of someones suggestion anyway as a way to nerf them in PvP. If people are fine with them being gone in PvP I don't really mind this either.

Also with the original smoke bomb it was basically 100% anyway since people would just spam click it till it worked (so I don't see how its changed in that regard). It's harder now because if it gets canceled by a DoT or a rogue aoe spell then your stuck till the cooldown. Making timing and position more important compared to before.

[Nanami]

6 hours ago, Jordan said:

I'm up for anything of the sort, to be honest I was only going based of someones suggestion anyway as a way to nerf them in PvP. If people are fine with them being gone in PvP I don't really mind this either.

Well I believe in some of the old posts this was the opinion of the majority who spoke about smoke bombs, personally I think it'll be much "healthier" pvp experiences without them and reverting them will help PvE so they will still be used.

[Mark20]

Hello
For many years the game becomes unhealthy not because of the items or changes than dev make,  it becomes toxic / attitue of the player, , you can see now, the vast majority who asked for changes no longer play. it is because there has always been the same mentality as always ( I had not explain because everyones knews it ) , but you can revert the changes, spamable in PvE and nerf/dissable in PvP I'm really sure this isn't going to be active PvP experience, will be the same. but i can be wrong , I just hope this makes the server more ENJOYABLE.

About enghiner pots on PvE Like the news maps i dont know but they are consider as battle maps AT- DF / CC / Viridians Gorge please make it ussable , coz players can't used it anymore.
 

[Nanami]

On 9/11/2023 at 2:22 PM, Mark20 said:

Hello
For many years the game becomes unhealthy not because of the items or changes than dev make,  it becomes toxic / attitue of the player, , you can see now, the vast majority who asked for changes no longer play. it is because there has always been the same mentality as always ( I had not explain because everyones knews it ) , but you can revert the changes, spamable in PvE and nerf/dissable in PvP I'm really sure this isn't going to be active PvP experience, will be the same. but i can be wrong , I just hope this makes the server more ENJOYABLE.

About enghiner pots on PvE Like the news maps i dont know but they are consider as battle maps AT- DF / CC / Viridians Gorge please make it ussable , coz players can't used it anymore.
 

I agree with this statement whole heartedly, some of our issues stem from the community for various reasons and toxicity is one, mentality is another. People love to quit and move to every other popup server because it's "new" "exciting" or "less grindy" than Vendetta. I don't think changing it will bring back PvP even if it were enabled or disabled, it's just up to peoples mentality and what they wanna do at the end of the day. 🤷‍♀️ 
But at least changing it so we can spam it in PvE will allow us to be able to change classes during raids again.

At the end of the day the only thing that will make people really wanna play here is having it be like old times, not a huge "grind fest", things handed to them way easier and OG trials, etc, more "solo content" since not everyone has a group to go with. Because as it stands right now there's "too many things to do" and so many people have "too little time" or bad time zones. 

[Reikan]

On 9/11/2023 at 4:22 PM, Mark20 said:

the vast majority who asked for changes no longer play. it is because there has always been the same mentality as always

Yes, the vast majority of players is wrong, only the select small group of you and your friends is correct. Nobody is allowed to have a different opinion. Grace us with your blessed sight.

The game now is just Sisyphus work. You gear up, so you can gear up in the next update. Some people aren't fond of this routine and just moved towards something more dynamic. Hence why the staff is trying to tackle Arenas and other sources of PVP.

I agree that the community mentality sucks, but maybe we can agree that the game is very old, rusty and not much can be done about that. It loses steam very quick, specially for those who already know how to progress. At some point, it gets dull, and I can't blame people for leaving. 

Since the topic is about Viridian Gorge and feedback, sticking to the topic, i'd like to contribute: Sisyphus work again. People aren't avoiding content because it was "bad designed" (because it wasn't), they are just tired enough not to force themselves to this. That's all.

[BloomingStar]

+1 to Nanami on the Smoke Bombs~!

Please revert the smoke bombs in PvE 😧

It's impossible to change now in PvE dungeons and let's just say, people don't know how to wait for someone to change class to adjust better the Party.

[Jordan]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:06 AM, BloomingStar said:

+1 to Nanami on the Smoke Bombs~!

Please revert the smoke bombs in PvE 😧

It's impossible to change now in PvE dungeons and let's just say, people don't know how to wait for someone to change class to adjust better the Party.

Just going to point out that there was a time before smoke bombs existed and we could still change classes before bosses and such 🙂

[hiersen]

16 hours ago, Jordan said:

Just going to point out that there was a time before smoke bombs existed and we could still change classes before bosses and such 🙂

Would you please care to elaborate?

Here is my "ideas" on the "swapping possibilities" after smoke bomb nerf :

1) kill all the mobs. sadly, people are kinda in a hurry & don't realize that killing mobs & allow class swaps might help going faster. And ignore when you tell them soooo...

2) Die and change class when you revive, on the very split moment you actually aren't in combat. can't recommend it, because kinda tedious, but that's my opinion, maybe people do that.

3) I guess technically humans can go out of combat & change using strategic retreat / adjudicator escape (for other races ONLY if adjudicator though, sadly) , even though it'd require the whole party to not get hit/attack to preserve that "out of combat" state

4) Any invisibility skill, being sage's aura or thieves one?

All in all, the smoke bombs were the most convenient way, and even though I can see why it could be frustrating on pvp for the previous smokebombs, they were more than fine pve, and I'd even say useful for situations as stated in the 1). 


I respect the change, just pointing out that it makes the item less convenient, especially when there is... communication difficulty between party members (for exemple, some player speaks only their language, let's say, spanish, or portuguese, mostly I think, maybe french, though as i'm french i never had that issue). To be clear, i'm not trying to point out "problems" with a part of the community, learning a language can be hard, and not everybody can succeed,for exemple i can't speak either spanish or portuguese. But smoke bombs allowed players to kinda "ignore" those issues and just swap when needed, raising overall party efficiency for clearing dungeons & stuff. 

That might have sounded slightly confused, and I appologies for that, but i believe you'll get my point.
 

[Jordan]

On 9/26/2023 at 5:52 AM, hiersen said:

Would you please care to elaborate?
 

Sage was the main one when people wanted to just sprint boss to boss since its aoe also so you just have 1 person on sage and they run all the way with the party to say the boss area and just stand somewhere safe and invis to people can just run to them and become invisible.

It was very common especially with DD when people wanted to kill the bosses they would run to the gaps and sage invis the party.

I know Smoke Bombs where more convient and I likely will make some of the suggested changes when I get a chance to. But it just kinda anoys me that people act like its impossible now rather than looking for other solutions to the problem.

I also don't make monsters in the dungeon for fun, so it's not really something that is necessary either to just run boss to boss smoke bombing since they're not exactly hard to kill.