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[VOTE] Al Kasava Proposal


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Al Kasava proposal vote  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we lower the number of players for Al Kasava?

    • Lower the number of players who can enter Al Kasava
      19
    • Keep the numbers as it is
      20


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10 minutes ago, Juniper said:

why would you do a trial and then make a fix?

why not fix the problem you know has happened empirically, and then do the trial to ensure the issue has been resolved?

I mean once we had a fix we would trial it 

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1 minute ago, Versteckt said:

It makes no sense to want to point out the fact that people could change sides providing an unfair battle with this change, after all BATTLE IS ALREADY UNFAIR,so at least it would help if the staff showed interest in changing the PvP situation in the game that is currently ridiculous.

We do show interest in changing or trying to. The problem is multifaceted though, so there is no one simple solution. Players need to just stop switching sides and going for the loot purposes alone. We can not force anyone to play on one side, nor can we control who signs up for a BG or goes into an AK or NB. The players need to band together and go fight.

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The FC happened to aid the imbalance. we tray and make alts to go onto the side with the lower player base. several things are happening all at once. sadly the mentality of the player base can't be changed and nor should be try and force people to behave in a certain way. all people can do is ask and hope that that they will change. think about your own mindset. do you really want to be forced to do something you don't like? eg:- I always see looters, whether i like it or not, what would be worse, is for me to impose my views on them. So i go back to. lets fix what needs fixing, not break what is already working.

Edited by Cuddle
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Heres the catch if ppl want PVP same number Remove wings coz its just like NB ....remove drops just battleground where u fight only....winning team based on kills....

Rewards :No SG just ....clusters and 5 SG replicubes 1 pet hack 12hrs

And Losing side :1 SG 

If at all tht works can u minimal the use of alts?on both side if yes then go ahead...

If no fix then try ...

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@Jade Well, if Vivi can do it I say lower it and wait 2 weeks. Personally I think if there are 18FK and 35RG having 25/25 is a good place to start to see how players handle it for 2 weeks and players will address the issue of AFK players in AK and if they would watch and record this then they could put in a ticket in and have that account banned(I say just that account only because that's the account the player is using manipulate the system) while they use their other account for playing. I say first ban on that is a full week ban so that account can't enter the next 2 AKs, if they do it again you could make it a month or perm ban that account only. If a player keeps making alt accounts to keep doing this ban all accounts related to that player. It should be that people are only allowed 1 account in AK at a time and using more does result in a ban on all accounts, but people who are pissed about people doing this should take action to stop it by reporting it with actual evidence and not rely on a GS that isn't there to police the game 24/7 as they should be allowed to enjoy playing too. But like me I have multiple accounts logged in at the same time 1FK, 1RG, and 1 that will either be FK or RG and if we knew what the Alts were of GS's that are in the game but not in the match we could whis them and tell them of a player doing this. That way the GS in AK and the GS outside could work with those in the faction where the offense is taking place to verify a kick and ban is needed. There are ways to deal with AFK'ers and multiloggers who break the rules and players who would be most upset by this are those that are in AK and losing because of them so they should be the ones most likely to report it.

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Also, what if Vivi fixed the portal out of AK so players can port out if they have to afk for let's say for more than 3min that way they can be responsible to not AFK in AK and people can see who is actually afking for reward or blocking players from entering that want to pvp and not AFK? Could AK time be reduced changing urka spawn times and/or remove the buff that the LS has so that players could choose to take out the LS before Urka spawns or while the other faction is killing Urka?

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@Sand this is all true but if there is not someone there to witness it and see it first hand your just taking the word of the player to do a kick. We cant do this, we have to verify the offense. Also it is hard to decide which acct do you ban? Honestly speaking these players know it is against the rules and wrong to dual log, yet they do it anyhow. So a ban on just the alt account would not serve much purpose. 
It is just a complicated issue that is for sure. Just honestly need a way to monitor this abuse if the system is altered in numbers that is for sure.

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2 minutes ago, GoddessSand said:

Also, what if Vivi fixed the portal out of AK so players can port out if they have to afk for let's say for more than 3min that way they can be responsible to not AFK in AK and people can see who is actually afking for reward or blocking players from entering that want to pvp and not AFK? Could AK time be reduced changing urka spawn times and/or remove the buff that the LS has so that players could choose to take out the LS before Urka spawns or while the other faction is killing Urka? 

Who would be responsible like this though? Who would voluntarily leave with perhaps very little hope to get back in? As for changing the dynamics some of that is locked to the map. Stats of mobs can be changed for sure. Just the mechanics is more locked in that map.

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1 hour ago, Uninformed said:

If people cannot get into premier bg then they stop playing.

Sorry but this is an extremely bad idea that has been tried with bad results before, including alts blocking the opposing faction from getting in

I wouldn't called that "playing" when number was what I have heard today 35 v 18, is that really called playing or...? ;). Lowering numbers for example to 25 v 25 still gives advantage to RG's by latests bg's statistics. Besides more equal number is rly about more fun. That loot on AK or SG's reward is really that great to sacriface more fair pvp and fun for it?

 About alts blocking others to get in....maybe one of the solutions would be, if finally launcher will be "fixed" to state as was before, when only one launcher could be open on one PC. That also would help a bit and prevent from multi log. Unless somebody is so crazy about to block others from getting into BG, that will run to the store for another PC xD. 

I did FC cos all the time so easy winnig in zerg mode was just...well no challenge and boring af, lets try this shit for a while and see how it will goes. Again thnx monoki for bring dat thing up:).

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28 minutes ago, Shadow said:

I wouldn't called that "playing" when number was what I have heard today 35 v 18, is that really called playing or...? ;). Lowering numbers for example to 25 v 25 still gives advantage to RG's by latests bg's statistics. Besides more equal number is rly about more fun. That loot on AK or SG's reward is really that great to sacriface more fair pvp and fun for it?

 About alts blocking others to get in....maybe one of the solutions would be, if finally launcher will be "fixed" to state as was before, when only one launcher could be open on one PC. That also would help a bit and prevent from multi log. Unless somebody is so crazy about to block others from getting into BG, that will run to the store for another PC xD. 

I did FC cos all the time so easy winnig in zerg mode was just...well no challenge and boring af, lets try this shit for a while and see how it will goes. Again thnx monoki for bring dat thing up:).

Problem is people still can multi-log with multiple PC or same PC. There is ways around it always. The fact is people get their spirits down or crushed and then they feel there is no use trying. So then they often times switch for loot. This is the real issue, people dont like to lose and I understand that. But you can not win all the time and switching sides doesnt solve the issue either, in fact exacerbates it more. The two biggest issues is time zones and players not wanting to band together. If players truly want more pvp or better/even pvp they have to be the solution not the problem. Something like you did move to the other side to even things out is a step in the correct direction. The next thing people need to do is not desert your faction if your not winning motivate others to help. Do whatever it takes to garner interest in your cause, help them level, perhaps help the under geared as much as you can. Give them reason to want to join the fight... I know is isnt just one persons responsibility, but it has to start somewhere. If more people banded together rather than bicker or fight, then nothing is impossible. It is only impossible when nothing is done or you give up.

So my advice to any faction suffering during any time zone... Stick to each other like glue. Band together after all your a faction, you should stand behind each other.

Edited by Jade
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2 hours ago, Shadow said:

I wouldn't called that "playing" when number was what I have heard today 35 v 18, is that really called playing or...? ;). Lowering numbers for example to 25 v 25 still gives advantage to RG's by latests bg's statistics. Besides more equal number is rly about more fun. That loot on AK or SG's reward is really that great to sacriface more fair pvp and fun for it?

 About alts blocking others to get in....maybe one of the solutions would be, if finally launcher will be "fixed" to state as was before, when only one launcher could be open on one PC. That also would help a bit and prevent from multi log. Unless somebody is so crazy about to block others from getting into BG, that will run to the store for another PC xD. 

I did FC cos all the time so easy winnig in zerg mode was just...well no challenge and boring af, lets try this shit for a while and see how it will goes. Again thnx monoki for bring dat thing up:).

I've got multiple pc's already and was multilogging before they changed the launcher. However, it is that people will more likely switch factions via log out of 1 characters and log in on a different character to be on the side that will get win and loot. 

 

The way people have been trying to combat the ak and nb balance have been to use FC which doesn't really fix nb or ak because people still have a rg toon or fk toon they just moved one of the many to the otherside and still have a toon that they could use in the side they came from. So, reducing ak numbers would limit people who can just switch in the middle. As for Jade's complaint of GS not being able to enter ak I find invalid because where were the GS's when fk had 10 people in nb or ak while rg had 30? Oh right rg side for looting too. See even GSs will care about being on the winning side and at least monoki is trying to push players over to the otherside. When I was in a clan playing halo on the pc and we had controls over the match on our server we forced people to the side with less people and kicked people who switched causing an imbalance and we even moved ourselves to the losing when they were out numbered. But it's all about the loot in this game.  

I also laugh about losing players because they can't enter ak or nb, the one battle they show up for. These people who only play end cap ak and nb do so for loot to earn gold to feed their lower characters and if all they play is for ak and nb, then why don't they show up on the losing side? Oh right because they want loot that isn't important to them for the rest of the day or week. Just lower the numbers, if a GS can't enter on the winning side they can switch to the other just like all the others who couldn't join the zerg side. If it's all about the loot put everything into tp, janus, and 2nd ark fixing that bg so people have to sign up to get it and you are forced into a balanced match given that people don't dc.  

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That is a good suggestion to increase drop on tp, janus and ark (fix first), that could rly motivate ppl to reg on that bg's. It's rly boring fight 1v1 or 3v3 max and always against same ppl, ok - i will have different opponents now ;)

and btw,  how long time for this voiting? 

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2 hours ago, GoddessSand said:

I've got multiple pc's already and was multilogging before they changed the launcher. However, it is that people will more likely switch factions via log out of 1 characters and log in on a different character to be on the side that will get win and loot. 

 

The way people have been trying to combat the ak and nb balance have been to use FC which doesn't really fix nb or ak because people still have a rg toon or fk toon they just moved one of the many to the otherside and still have a toon that they could use in the side they came from. So, reducing ak numbers would limit people who can just switch in the middle. As for Jade's complaint of GS not being able to enter ak I find invalid because where were the GS's when fk had 10 people in nb or ak while rg had 30? Oh right rg side for looting too. See even GSs will care about being on the winning side and at least monoki is trying to push players over to the otherside. When I was in a clan playing halo on the pc and we had controls over the match on our server we forced people to the side with less people and kicked people who switched causing an imbalance and we even moved ourselves to the losing when they were out numbered. But it's all about the loot in this game.  

I also laugh about losing players because they can't enter ak or nb, the one battle they show up for. These people who only play end cap ak and nb do so for loot to earn gold to feed their lower characters and if all they play is for ak and nb, then why don't they show up on the losing side? Oh right because they want loot that isn't important to them for the rest of the day or week. Just lower the numbers, if a GS can't enter on the winning side they can switch to the other just like all the others who couldn't join the zerg side. If it's all about the loot put everything into tp, janus, and 2nd ark fixing that bg so people have to sign up to get it and you are forced into a balanced match given that people don't dc.  

Sadly 90-95% of this is also invalid though, not all GS have alts on the other side to join NB or AK. Nor do many of us care about loot. I personally can take or leave the loot. Yeah I like to get something useful or needed, but I have more stuff now that I even remember I have. It is still an issue of a GS being DCed and unable to get back in. It has happened before for several of the GS in the past. Lowering the AK numbers just will not solve this issue. It was done before and it caused more problems than it attempted to solve. Again it comes down to two factors and only two. The time zone issue and the fact people are not willing to stand behind their faction. They desert and go to their alts for loot or they just simply leave or do not show at all. I think people just fail to remember the issues this brought in when the numbers were lowered last time.

So again it comes to my advice get people to stick together, get them to help one another. Help the lowbies level up, help them with gear or advice anything you can in order to get your faction numbers up. I dont want this next comment to sound like there is no help coming from one side or the other, but I have noticed that one side specially certain people are more than willing to help the lowbies out in advice or leveling something than the other. @Sand I know you have personally helped a lot of people on both RG and FK side it is very commendable. Helping with gear, advice leveling... This is precisely what is needed, if more people helped like this then there would be less new players that quit so quickly and there would no shortage of players, more so an influx and we would have people waiting to get into these BG's due to having too many. See again it comes down to the grind for players or the trying to catch up to the end gamers. If we all pitched in and did some work to help them, I know it is not fun sitting there all the time helping and you feel your the only one. Well speak up to your fellow faction if you feel your the only one doing most of this type of work.

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1 hour ago, Jade said:

Lowering the AK numbers just will not solve this issue. It was done before and it caused more problems than it attempted to solve.

You know why it didn't work? because they lowered it so low that players on both sides had people in the waiting. Then when they raised it, they just put it right back to where zergs can enter and win instead of raising it just a little till there was only but a few slots open on one side. Having a GS in AK or not, never stopped players from AFKing, but if people reported the dual loggers and AFKing players then the GS can kick them and ban them for a week. You GS's aren't in game police 24/7 where people only get into trouble if the GS sees it. If players report the issue the issue can then be solved. Sure it screws up that AK match, but the more people become intolerant to players who screw up their gaming experience through rule breaking and report it then it reduces it from continuing. It's like the law in Utah that was just passed that decriminalized sex before marriage, it's not like they were enforcing the law in the first place, if they were actually enforcing the law less people would have attempted to have sex before marriage. So, if you want to fix AK lower the max value ban players who AFK or dual log, and then slowly raise it, lowering it isn't being talked about as a permanent, but as the numbers allowed in increases over time where balance is still close together then there can be balance within AK. That is what we are asking for, that is what we want. We want to keep it so that people can't just switch in the middle to join the zerg and we want to limit the zerg. If players find that they are never allowed in because they are on the zerg side, then that's what FC is for or use your alt on the lower side. Look solving problems. Like we are saying this isn't a permanent solution, but we are looking at long term goals with short term methods.

 

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That is what we are proposing here 20-25 is as low as it was before... Lower it to 40 sure that isnt as low but cutting in half is just the same issue on a different date and time. 

Problem is they can still switch in the middle regardless, just might risk no spot. Or wait for a DC and take a spot then what? Same issue... 

The problem with reporting to a GS is that it is one after the fact... So just banning means less players. As much as it might be a shock to players, GS dont like to Ban people. It is an option we take very seriously, we dont just go clicking that button all the time nilly willy. Plus we need the proper proof in order to really act upon that, and doing it afterwards just lowers the player base for even that week or two, it also doesnt solve the fact that, the BG in question had an issue. Yes I know we can not be there 24/7 and yes that indeed is an issue. Just taking a players word for who AFK'd or who dual logged is not an option, there has to be enough proof and that isnt a bannable offense in the beginning there needs to be a history of repeated abuse of this. This is why we have the ability to kick first to get rid of those afk and allow others to enter or to in a sense warn players. Sadly many players that have been kicked just come back and repeat this again. Same with people that have been banned they come back and back to their old habits. So a ban or a kick is not a full on solution either, there is some that just do not learn from this. Players can solve the balance problem, just that most are too unwilling to put in the time or effort. Make an alt on that side that needs help, switch faction and do not switch back, help people with gear, with levels, with advice. Keep those new players in game give them reason to feel useful and wanted. Get friends that have left the game to return, get new friends to start playing. These are much better long term options.... All comes back to Band Together as a faction.

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8 hours ago, Jade said:

Who would be responsible like this though? Who would voluntarily leave with perhaps very little hope to get back in? As for changing the dynamics some of that is locked to the map. Stats of mobs can be changed for sure. Just the mechanics is more locked in that map.

The player who doesn't want to get banned for afking would be responsible for leaving the BG before they afk. Though maybe 3 min is too short, but 15 or 20min of afking is definitly too long to allow a player to be afk in AK.

You know, I did also make a post about a month or so ago suggesting to create a BG where Vendetta has more control over the mechanics. One was creating a portal that only spawns at certain times, players enter a map that is already part of the game(Caregate) they have so much time to complete the objectives before getting kicked and portal goes bye bye. If you can't control the portal spawning, what about controlling the when and how long something spawns in the map? Like what would happen if you changed titan to spawn and players have 15min to kill it before it spawns again in an hour or have it spawn for 30min and then it disappears for 3 hours? What if the game had a map like that? But also limited how many are allowed in that map like we are talking about in AK so that it can be made so if you are on the side with too many people you join the side with less people?

It would be cool if the game mechanics allowed for automatic adjustment to how many are allowed in a map. Like if the map initially allowed 10 people in it, if 10 people are in on both sides, the game increases it to 15 on both sides. if map reaches 15 on both sides then game increases the map automatically to 20 and so on and so on. Till both sides are no longer maxing out the map. But that's just wishful thinking and probably need source code.

But what we are just stating is making the amount allowed in temporary to get a more balance BG. If people didn't get in then it wouldn't have been any different than not getting in on any other BG, but with AK and NB people can still switch to the other side if there's slots(which if there isn't slots on either side then an small increases is needed). I personally prefer to play FK in NB and AK so seeing me on the RG side during those matches would only happen if I couldn't get in on FK side.

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@Jade dual logging can be easy to spot if we know everybody's alts as normal gamers. I know that the second I bring in 2 characters into AK there shouldn't be a single player who can't say oh hell no GoddessSand has 2 toons in the match one of both sides. But GM's and GS's isn't there a log of IP addresses with map location? I'm just throwing this thought out there. But dual logs are bannable and all accounts get banned for it, just ask RedPower about that. It's afking players that is hard and sure first hand is better than second hand, but get one person recording it and it sure makes it harder to refute it. But that's also why I recommend banning the account of that the character was afk with. I know most who have a second account are more likely to send a character in AK to afk. Though who would risk being banned if that's their only account? I don't like banning people or having people banned myself, but people don't stop doing breaking rules if rules aren't enforced.

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But some do not know all the alts or they hide so as a FK can you see every spot in RG base? Sadly no nor can RG. So seeing that Sand is in both sides you have to rival them and also know both of your main names... Some ppl have access to other players accts too. So then it comes down to IP address checking. It is a much more complicated issue than it seems. Yes and dual logging can get you banned specially if you abuse this over n over again. The problem is they still dont learn from it, I will not name any names here but there is many ppl that have gotten a temp ban and went right back to their offensive habits. Also not everyone records, so now your asking the community to be recording every AK cause who is gonna be there 24/7 like you said. Also lets say you was the one that recorded and only you would this prove that someone had a RG n FK one hiding some place? Probably not, also you would not see the entire map at all times to know what is going on. This is even hard for us GS even when there would be 2 FK n 2 RG on in a single AK. Great idea that people can report and video, just who is capable? Some peoples machines lag just playing SB let alone running a recording software or their harddrive speed and space. I like that idea make players responsible which they should be. We are adults we should know right from wrong, but sadly adults are just like kids we push the limits to see how far we can go too lol. As adults we also can take matters into our own hands which is why I suggest a longer term plan, get the faction to love each other and want to better their faction. Get them to want to grow as a faction and as a team.

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It was already test in lv59 cap

30 v 30 on NB
40 v 40 on AK

Results was losing players instead of gaining (by this i mean players would rather not bother login in knowing they wont make it into AK if they late or even on time)
im my experiance fk still didnt bother to come on fk side sat ak
 

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Here's how and why lowering AK could help. First why 35 to 18 is not pvp, that is double the force needed to kill players and not fair pvp. So, how is AK supposed to be a BG if it is really just a zerg pve zone?

So, how it will work. First reduce the amount allowed to enter on both sides but still theoretically have slots open on the other side.

1) I can't enter AK, I am going to switch to the other side to get in. Oh, wait I can't get in that side either. Raise a bit.

2) I can't enter AK, can I FC so I can get in AK?

3) I can't enter AK, better use my alt to get in.

If we managed FC with AK then we can have a better balance. If at any time AK is maxing out on both sides then increase how many are allowed in. If AK is maxed out on one side, open FC and let them move over to max out AK on the other side. Once AK maxes out on both sides again raise how many are allowed in. If AK then becomes too far unbalanced on one side, lower the amount allowed in and/or open FC. This method we have to understand will need to be repeated over and over and over till it stops needing to be repeated or at least repeated as much. If AK maintains equal numbers and players want to FC, I would then say allow FC only if another player is willing to switch with them for a 1 to 1 change. When ak is unbalanced FC could be open to allow players to balance out AK at the same time lower how many allowed in for a time to get AK balanced again.

This can be how to work through to balance the game as the game is fluid with people coming and going. Some coming to one side and going from another.
 

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Still this is the same issue just explained out differently it doesnt solve the issue. Why would people switch sides back and forth and get frustrated not getting in or DC and cant get back in. Then they FC to help balance this has time and again shown to not work. So why would they FC just to get the AL number raised to then end up in the same boat again. 

This still is trying to work around the problem and not work the problem. The problem is numbers at that time of day or night for that faction. It is all about those time zones I can guarantee if you had a game that was only 1 country ever playing you would not end up with these type issues, unfortunately this is a international game. So we are stuck with the time zone issue that puts one faction at a disadvantage at certain times. People tend to flock together they do not wanna play alone. 
 

So then what is the solution? Well it is simple but also hard. You have to recruit players for that time zone to play on that faction. I know easier said than done, but this is the end all solution. You just need to help the people that are struggling to help you. I often see new players just not get the help they might need. I have personally spent hours upon hours helping newbies and spent more gold than I can or want to admit helping them. If more of this was to take place and those lower geared or lower levels felt needed and appreciate rather than ran over or over looked this would help. There is an army, their just not geared, leveled or trained. If they feel part of a faction part of a family they will end up loyal. So it comes back full circle to the only true solution, the players must bond together as a faction and make it grow. I have played SB from the earliest of days and have seen the times when FK was dominate and when RG was dominate. I have also seen that the time zones also dictated this highly. It is still true today too, just a slight lesser degree due to player base. This is what needs to be the main focus, the player base and helping them grow with you. Not trying to band-aid fix things that will only fester the wound more.

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@Jade it is a solution and a good one, but the GMs with the help of the GSs keep tabs on it to make the change more often than every 6+ months as that's why it's not working and the FC without ak balance doesn't work because they haven't been done together. There are people who would switch back and forth if the game needs it. I switch between my FK and RG toon as needed and as long as there isn't a zerg force I'd be happy to do so. It's when zergs are allowed to exist that screws up the pvp. That is why I suggest lowering the BG AK and NB entery and raise it as needed when both sides are maxing it out. Players can wait a week or two for AK to increase to allow more in or decrease to stop zergs. If players can't play without a zerg then they need to get good. If they can't get in because their faction has too many people then they should A) create an alt on the other faction or B) FC and allow FC to exist. I know Bash is supposed to be working on making FC easier without them, so then all that would need is balance AK and NB with entry allowance. As far as I can tell players aren't entering TP, Janus, or 2nd ark with the same number that goes into AK and NB, so why make AK and NB special for zerging?

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Just cause faction change and AK lowered numbers wasn't dont at the same time doesnt mean it is a good or bad solution. Plus it is an opinion, plus to do faction changes is not exactly an easy procedure, nor is constantly updating the numbers there would have to be significant tracking done. This is just more overhead on the game staff specially Vivi and Bash. See we keep looking at using bandages to fix things rather than a cure. The cure is more people and loyal ones that feel like a family feel they belong. We can all day add numbers or subtract them or faction change til the hard drives crash. It isnt a solution that is long term and in fact in many games that suffered the same issues that we face server merges server splits faction changes this has always shown to be a system that just doesnt do all that much good if any at all. I can see how you would think that it would work, but sadly the moment someone that is needed in the AK DC or crash then that faction will suffer and I feel that it will hurt FK more so.. If your already hurting when you lose a key member or two and that spot is filled with someone else, it all goes down hill. I am not thinking from an RG perspective here I am putting myself more in the shoes of the FK if anything but I am trying to stay in the middle and neutral. I just see serious failure from this as it happened before here and other games I have played.  

I know I am beating a dead horse here but the solution lies in what I have said before get the players that have left or taking long hiatus back, or train and recruit new people. New friends or those newbies that are out there I see them.. Yes they exist, I have seen shouts from both FK and RG newbies asking questions and needing help. I help as many as I can, but I am just one person.

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