LordKonton

Dungeons and Exp

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Right now, the game is now no longer player friendly. Just about every level cap isn't fun. Nothing worth farming, lowbies can't even make it past 39 without heavily relying on end game players help, and exp in all caps isn't balanced. Early caps give too much, later gives essentially nothing. DG's aren't worth the grind since nerfs were done. Combined factors of DGs being nerfed and exp being difficult, caused many players to quit and lowbies don't even stick around for longer than a month. We had tried helping several recently, for them all to quit because the game isn't player friendly. New players should not have to rely on end game players to get them to where they need to be. It also gives end game players an unfair responsibility of basically having to help new players nearly every step of the way.

I'm going to try to keep this as brief as possible. Most DGs should be reworked and exp adjusted for all caps.

One general change I thought about was making Base Gears the equivalent to +7 gears. This means that new players can farm most DGs with relative ease, but if they want to farm faster or prepare for the next cap, get regular gears and enhance those themselves. It's a thing that would help any new player since the current base gears are garbage.
Another problem which is understandably hard to balance is how medics and tanks struggle with farming.

 

EXP:

Drasilmarsh, Bitterstone Core, Ignis Vortex and Subterranean Factory give too much exp compared to what they have to farm for. They should be farming accessories to gear themselves, instead they end up doing 10-15 runs and have to de-exp. It shouldn't be nuked but lowered so people can farm it and get what they need before they move up.

From SF, DGs give terrible exp so should be buffed everywhere.
An overall buff to all DGs, would be give Team Mode dungeons a great buff in exp so they are worth doing. This would mean that players can solo farm and get themselves leveled without having to get a free ride to level 59 then participate in exp parties in DV, which no one likes to do.
Overall buff to everywhere: increase the trash drops sell value (HP/SP pots, general item trash). This would help new players have some sort of starting income to enhance gears and buy stuff they might want/need. Like instead of 1b for 1 trash item, maybe 5b-10b.

 

Drop Tables:

Overall the drop tables are pretty okay, but drop rates not so much. Gold from dungeon bosses and silver/bronze from mobs should be increased to help players get what they need and better prepare for the next level cap. A specific increase for gold is for DS/DTO in 60+. Those DGs drop less than DMH, being a level 54 dungeon. Doesn't make sense and considering how expensive things are, a bit more gold couldn't hurt. Average is around 150g per DMH run with buffs and gold collector chip. DS/DTO (2nd floor) should be totalling around 175g-200g. A potential change as well would be to reduce the cost of enhancements. Gets real expensive if you're unlucky. Combine that with no real solid way to make gold, progress can't be made.

 

- DM: should drop low level rare accessories, such as trinket and earrings. This will help them with BC and starting 39. Maybe a 20%-30% on the bosses for any of the accessories.

 

- BC: should drop higher level rare accessories solo, such as rings and necklaces. BC currently is only worth farming for jewel replicubes, which is only obtainable on the last boss. Which means most if not all players who farm BC, abuse the mainframe glitch. By adding rare accessories to the minibosses in solo mode, that could change. However, to drive it home, adding an additional 30% chance to drop any random jewel replicube on each of the minibosses would be a great change. It would encourage people to farm the whole dungeon and can help people obtain jewels.

 

- IV: Should drop magic/rare earrings at a higher rate, being 10%-15% increase

 

- SF: magic and rare accessories should get a reasonable increase, in the 5%-10% range considering they drop on mobs. Add a unique laser scanner onto the last boss at a 10%-15% rate. Captive experiments drop nothing quite often. Increase gold from bosses, they only give around 2g-4g. Mobs only give 1s, maybe increase this as well.


- AT: Since it's the most difficult dungeon in the game for most players, it should be high risk high reward. Increase Drops of unique costumes by 2%-6%, fix solo mode to drop zeta uniques instead of kappa Uniques, increase drop of unique gear team mode by 10%, increase EXP Team mode, increase L44 rare earring drop rates by 15%-20% and add rare L40 trinkets at similar rates. Difficulty should be left alone.


- SS: Should drop magic/rare rings at a higher rate, being 10%-15% increase.

 

- TA: Drops are reasonable, but maybe offer more loot options from bosses. Getting 1-5 drops off a boss bad considering how many items drop on other bosses, in most other DGs. Consider adding blueprints at a 15%-20% drop rate.
- DMH: Provide a small 5%-10% increase for smoldering lava rocks and major azure ores. Considering how many is needed, that being a few hundred, it can take a very very long time to get whats needed. Should also remove the open hexweaves (beta red/green 1-3), and potentially increase the packs drop rate by 10%-15%.


- DS: This dungeon was really good before the nerf. It should have some quality brought back to it. It used to drop 0-3 uniq gears per boss. Max was 9 per run. It was really good but a bit op. A more realistic number is 0-1 per boss. This change would help players who don't PVP, gear themselves outside of BGs. Many players quit after the DS nerf and for valid reason. Having up to 9 chances at an SG was a bit much, so 0-1 unique gears 50-59 would be more practical. Perhaps a 50% for each boss to drop a unique weapon or KG.


- DTO: This dungeon was supposed to have similar drop rates to TA. I farmed DTO 2nd floor 200+ runs and DS over 100, and got nothing worth mentioning. Got a unique costume, but one thats worth the least out of all costumes. 300 runs for chump change. A 5%-10% chance increase to drop rates, a step above TA, would be ideal. Why spend legendary passcards which are hard to come by, when I could just farm TA with regular passcards?


- DTO/DS: Could drop rare 60+ gears that offer similar rewards to L50. Hypovial packs, clusters, cards. Alternative to dropping 0-1 Level 50 unique KG/weapon/suits/bangle/helmets, these could drop 0-1 unique L60-65 PVE gear per boss and offer similar salvage rewards to L50 unique gears. That being clusters, napalm, jewel replicube, Safeguard replicube, stardusts.


Quests:
An overall increase to the gold/silver players obtain would give players more incentive to quest and can help them get started. By Ellis, should be obtaining around 70g+ per quest. A slight decrease to exp obtained from quests so players  don't accidently level from questing. They should be obtaining the majority of their exp from farming dungeons.

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IV should be xp lowered. As well as xp from 39 cap BGs and bosses in viledon. People level to 40 way too fast, often by accident and unprepared.

World bosses should be looked into too. For example Viledon Helios drops to naraks with a chance for a cheap unique gear. Not much...

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I've mentioned this before to staff and I'll say it here as well as a tl;dr.

This isn't a simple number change and isn't one that can be quickly done. Modifying rates of the original dungeon drop tables breaks the table for the dungeon and all mobs in it, so it'll have to be remade from the ground up. So to remake all beginning dungeons takes time, if we decide to go through them all.

As for the rates, since they were done via file and not some hidden buff, that's a bit more complicated to do as well. I was thinking of reverting to release files (prior to the rates being put on) and readding the new changes to that. Doing that would allow for easier access to all other drop tables and make it a bit easier on me with making them, though readding all new ones and modifiying them to the old drop rate is another battle. Basically have no drop/exp rates and leaving it as base, then throw the rates on a general world buff like Battle blessing. This could also allow for an "exp block" persay for the lower cap level players.

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I don't think the need for increasing gold would be necessary if drops of specialty items increase, but even without the specialty items the gold still isn't a necessary increase since usually specialty items are what sells for the most. If Specialty items increase their prices will drop. As far as exp goes, I do think that it should be increased. I mentioned a long time ago having the pet data chips which are used for gaining exp increased from 15% and 10% to more around 200% and 300% or around those numbers, but nothing has been done with them.

As far as lower level dungeons, I used to farm them a lot and had much success in getting good drops for that level cap. TA however after running it a few times it seems that drops on that DG got changed. When it comes to DS after the change and added DTO, I stopped doing DS because it doesn't feel worth my time and DTO did for a bit only to find it lacking in luster for my time.

I hope Vivi is able to do something about it. I know players will be anticipating another Halloween event this year with a Halloween DG like last years. I would like to see those drops in last years DG to remain the same, but also have unique (locked) costumes added to it, unlike the Christmas DG that was given unique costumes that people can't do crap with them because they are NT due to being unlocked right from the start. I know DrDieLess said that the Christmas DG wasn't to make people rich, but really the rich in gold players are carrying the new and poorer in gold players because these players have a hard time trying to get to be on par with the rest of us. I've even made and given rare rank 2 jewels to these players because we can't get jewels like we use to. Even salvaging the new epsilon, eta, lota, and theta gear you would think give us something similar to unique kappa gear, but all it gives is 20 medals that are used to make epsilon, eta, lota, and theta gear which is a far cry from useful and backwards. Like you are spending 152 medals to salvage an item for 20 of the same medals, why? I know Vivi has lots to do and GS's or some of them working on skill trees to hopefully be changed for the better game is kinda more for socializing than playing. I would hope that things change for the better. Good luck Vivi and staff with doing what you can and thank you for your dedication to trying to constantly make the game better.

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Drasilmarsh drop rare trinkets quite often. It can also drop earring, but not in ogung, you need to farm level 24 mobs, and you can see earring. So it's ok.

BC drop rings in same way: you need to kill the level 28-29 mobs in the rooms, and with a lot of luck you can see a rare ring. And it's ok too: if people drop rings in mainframe, their price will fall to 1 gold in no time.

SF mobs level 32-33 drop rare earrings.

No need to see earrings in IV: IV is still the most profitable dungeon for lowbies.

I agree the dungeons should change by Abyssal Temple and next. As someone stated few time ago, 95% of new players leave game around level 42-45. So THE problem of Scarlet Blade is absolutely related to that range. So yes, nerf a bit mobs and sub bosses (Simon is the only one good atm), make Zeta uniqs drops and rare earrings. Nerf Nemesis bosses (Catherine is the only one good atm) and make then drop uniqs a bit more often (similar to Viledon bosses can be good). Catherine should drop uniq accessories too like Asmodeus.

 

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11 hours ago, Filomena said:

Drasilmarsh drop rare trinkets quite often. It can also drop earring, but not in ogung, you need to farm level 24 mobs, and you can see earring. So it's ok.

BC drop rings in same way: you need to kill the level 28-29 mobs in the rooms, and with a lot of luck you can see a rare ring. And it's ok too: if people drop rings in mainframe, their price will fall to 1 gold in no time.

SF mobs level 32-33 drop rare earrings.

No need to see earrings in IV: IV is still the most profitable dungeon for lowbies.

I agree the dungeons should change by Abyssal Temple and next. As someone stated few time ago, 95% of new players leave game around level 42-45. So THE problem of Scarlet Blade is absolutely related to that range. So yes, nerf a bit mobs and sub bosses (Simon is the only one good atm), make Zeta uniqs drops and rare earrings. Nerf Nemesis bosses (Catherine is the only one good atm) and make then drop uniqs a bit more often (similar to Viledon bosses can be good). Catherine should drop uniq accessories too like Asmodeus.

 

Best rule of thumb to go by is, give players a reason to farm it and it will be farmed. Sure you will add the items we are asking for to those dungeons, but if you spend 4 hours farming and get nothing you wouldn't want to farm it any more because there's no reason to waste time doing something that has no reward worth spending time going for it. Like Last year's Halloween dungeon got lots of love because it had items people wanted and a drop rate worth spending the time in. Though they could have cut back on the number of pet skins that dropped. I think i have 100's of them and nobody really wants them, I wonder if I could sell them for gold?

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12 minutes ago, GoddessSand said:

Best rule of thumb to go by is, give players a reason to farm it and it will be farmed. Sure you will add the items we are asking for to those dungeons, but if you spend 4 hours farming and get nothing would you wouldn't want to farm it any more because there's no reason to waste time doing something that has no reward worth spending time going for it. Like Last year's Halloween dungeon got lots of love because it had items people wanted and a drop rate worth spending the time in. Though they could have cut back on the number of pet skins that dropped. I think i have 100's of them and nobody really wants them, I wonder if I could sell them for gold?

Spending several hours or even weeks farming a dungeon, to get nothing profitable is pretty demotivating. I stopped farming completely after I spent 200 runs in DTO, 100 in DS over a few weeks and got nothing. Not even a uni jewel. I agree, dungeons have to be worth farming. After DS was nerfed significantly, many farmers quit or rerolled lower caps and never saw again.

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8 hours ago, Filomena said:

Drasilmarsh drop rare trinkets quite often. It can also drop earring, but not in ogung, you need to farm level 24 mobs, and you can see earring. So it's ok.

BC drop rings in same way: you need to kill the level 28-29 mobs in the rooms, and with a lot of luck you can see a rare ring. And it's ok too: if people drop rings in mainframe, their price will fall to 1 gold in no time.

SF mobs level 32-33 drop rare earrings.

No need to see earrings in IV: IV is still the most profitable dungeon for lowbies.

I agree the dungeons should change by Abyssal Temple and next. As someone stated few time ago, 95% of new players leave game around level 42-45. So THE problem of Scarlet Blade is absolutely related to that range. So yes, nerf a bit mobs and sub bosses (Simon is the only one good atm), make Zeta uniqs drops and rare earrings. Nerf Nemesis bosses (Catherine is the only one good atm) and make then drop uniqs a bit more often (similar to Viledon bosses can be good). Catherine should drop uniq accessories too like Asmodeus.

 

It’s not okay, though. The rates for Rings and Earrings are abysmal in BC and DM. Those are the only places to get them for new players outside of one Replicube that has a chance to drop Earrings. The prices for Vet Rings are 1500g. Thousands more for Seer and Scout. Both of these dungeons are introductory in nature. People shouldn’t have to bust out a credit card for gear that will be obsolete in two hours. 

 

Edit: Yes, if the drop rate was higher or, 29 and below had a huge surge In population, the prices would drop because of the increased supply. Even on ASB, I think a set of Rings would go for 500 or so gold, depending on the set. The only reason they’re expensive here is because there’s not enough supplying them. That’s fine though, since there’s little demand.

8 hours ago, GoddessSand said:

Best rule of thumb to go by is, give players a reason to farm it and it will be farmed. Sure you will add the items we are asking for to those dungeons, but if you spend 4 hours farming and get nothing would you wouldn't want to farm it any more because there's no reason to waste time doing something that has no reward worth spending time going for it. Like Last year's Halloween dungeon got lots of love because it had items people wanted and a drop rate worth spending the time in. Though they could have cut back on the number of pet skins that dropped. I think i have 100's of them and nobody really wants them, I wonder if I could sell them for gold?

Other than 29’ers, who else is going to farm those dungeons for the Ring/Earring drop? The exact same number of Vet, Seer, and Scout Rare Rings are still on the AH except the two Vet Rings I bought for myself last week. So if no ones buying them already ( 29’ers and new players alike ), what’s the point? They aren’t reason enough to farm these areas because if they were, more people would be doing it meaning more Rings/Earrings on the AH.

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14 hours ago, Filomena said:

Drasilmarsh drop rare trinkets quite often. It can also drop earring, but not in ogung, you need to farm level 24 mobs, and you can see earring. So it's ok.

BC drop rings in same way: you need to kill the level 28-29 mobs in the rooms, and with a lot of luck you can see a rare ring. And it's ok too: if people drop rings in mainframe, their price will fall to 1 gold in no time.

SF mobs level 32-33 drop rare earrings.  And Unique Weapons if memory serves and those abysmal rates I don't think changed from Aeria days

No need to see earrings in IV: IV is still the most profitable dungeon for lowbies.

I agree the dungeons should change by Abyssal Temple and next. As someone stated few time ago, 95% of new players leave game around level 42-45. So THE problem of Scarlet Blade is absolutely related to that range. So yes, nerf a bit mobs and sub bosses (Simon is the only one good atm), make Zeta uniqs drops and rare earrings. Nerf Nemesis bosses (Catherine is the only one good atm) and make then drop uniqs a bit more often (similar to Viledon bosses can be good). Catherine should drop uniq accessories too like Asmodeus.

 

Responses in red

Edited by Norleras

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35 minutes ago, Tropical said:

If items are in AH for many k of G and a dungeon drops them it seems to me like a good reason to farm... New players just don't know that.

And those items for the 29 cap are the EXACT same ones as the day I started 20 days ago now on this server. Yes, the Rare Vet, Seer, and Scout Rings and to a lesser extent Earrings are hard to come by because very few people get them as drops. But just because they're legit rare on our server doesn't mean they're worth 4k Gold for ONE Ring. Again, especially since they are the first Rare set of Accessories availiable in the game.

And no. I'm not saying they should be given out freely, either. But added to more drop tables ( Titan, Janus/TP, CG Chest ) if possible would still make them profitable if got as a drop ( due to a low number of players at this cap ) and, attainable if someone chose to stick around for them.

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3 hours ago, Tropical said:

If items are in AH for many k of G and a dungeon drops them it seems to me like a good reason to farm... New players just don't know that.

Considering how hard it is for anyone in any level cap to get gold, it would be hard to obtain expensive stuffs. L20-29 rare accessories should not be 1kg-4kg which they are. I remember paying around 2000g for my scout rings. That's absurd for any new player. Not to mention they would be de-exping regularly if they even know to do so, to get those accessories they are looking for.

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Sure, items in that cap should be 20-100g. But if there is one in short supply costing 4K, i would farm that dungeon right now and sell those items for gold. Some supposedly drop from Harbinger but if everyone takes the short way to mainframe, no drop.

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While I'm only one person, I've been farming Harbinger and to date, 0 Rare Rings. Same goes with the lvl. 28 trash mobs. Nada. That said, again. For like the third time: No one's buying these rings at these prices. The same ones that are on the AH have been there for the past 20 days. So farming these rings for profit ( even undercutting the current suppliers ) just seems like a waste of time. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure if I got a Seer Ring, I could sell the shit out of it for 1k gold extremely fast. The problem with that is, is that it will be back on the AH in 30 seconds for twice or, even three times as much and not equipped to a new player.

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On 9/14/2019 at 9:19 AM, Norleras said:

Responses in red

I think rate of uniqs from Dragon Sentry increased a bit from beginning of the game in Vendetta. 1 uniq (or 1 rare earring) every 4-5 runs.

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4 hours ago, Filomena said:

I think rate of uniqs from Dragon Sentry increased a bit from beginning of the game in Vendetta. 1 uniq (or 1 rare earring) every 4-5 runs.

Guess I'll be spamming SF when I get to be of level

 

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