Patch v123 Feedback & Other Suggestions

[Nanami]

Hi there! I'd like to provide some feedback on the latest content patch and offer some suggestions. I'm sharing these thoughts in the hope that they will be considered with an open mind and heart. I believe that making these changes to our server could benefit everyone and enhance the experience for new, returning, and existing players alike.
Starting with the feedback on the most recent patch and the "problems" that I've noticed, I'll also provide suggestions for improvement. 

                                                                     Patch v123 Feedback.
Dungeons/Bosses: The idea behind the 0/10s | 0/2s content being tailored for beginners is fantastic. It is always amazing to see resources designed and meant to help newcomers. However, I feel the execution could be improved. Currently, most of the content seems to be focused on high HP mobs, which might not be the best for players who are just getting started.
For someone starting and questing in Vendetta Gear, the World Bosses, 0/10s, and even 0/2s have incredibly high HP. As a “newcomer” using this gear and the Rifleteer class, it took nearly 9 minutes to clear a 0/2 dungeon run. Even for someone who is well-geared, clearing the 0/10s with reality potions still takes a considerable time—roughly around 4-5 minutes per run, depending on the dungeon and class.
A common approach to expedite dungeon clears is to disregard the bosses' weaknesses, as it has been observed that nearly half of these can only be broken through elemental attacks. This, in my view, creates an imbalance—there should be a more equitable distribution between physical and elemental weaknesses.

130 Trials: : In terms of boss strength, I believe these trials are mostly balanced; however, I disagree with the only elemental breaks in general, as previously mentioned.
On the other hand, I believe the class drop rate is considerably low and should be increased. To evaluate this, I have farmed the trials with a full party of characters while intentionally avoiding breaking the first boss in the Ruined Bloom Sanctuary trial. I did this on three different characters for more than a week, and only received the drop once. As a result, weapons hardly ever drop without breaking bosses.
Reroll System:: I believe the 3:1 ratio for weapon rerolling is too costly and time-consuming. Although the team has indicated that these trials were primarily designed for new players, it takes an average of 60 weapons to achieve just one reroll for a single 120% weapon, which hinders their ability to acquire weapons effectively. This wraps up my feedback on the latest patch.

Blood Knight Nerf: : I have some reservations regarding the nerf to the DOT skill in this class, as it seems to unfairly disadvantage new players and low-level camped characters like 120, 110, and 100 level runners.
Given that this class lacks key performance (KP) for weapons like the guitar, staff, and hammer, yet still allows their use, players often approach the class in a less strategic (or “lazy”) manner rather than building it effectively. In my opinion, a more appropriate adjustment would have been to remove the ability to utilize these weapons altogether. I will include a screenshot as an example of my perspective while ensuring that players' names are blurred out of respect for their privacy.
I will start providing suggestions for older content next.

                                                                   PvE Suggestions:
Haven of Oblivion: The Haven of Oblivion has become largely underutilized content, primarily serving only to fulfill achievements, especially with the recent introduction of Accursed Weapons and 130-level weapons. While having a full party might make things easier, not everyone, particularly newcomers, have access to such teams. To enable newcomers to solo for their achievements, I would like to propose adjusting the difficulty of this content to align with that of the 100 trials.
Alternatively, I would like to suggest that you increase the trophy drop rate to at least 75%, if not 100%. Currently, even when nine or more of 1/11 bosses spawn, trophies hardly ever drop, creating excessive randomness in the experience. Players face a 1/11 chance of encountering the desired boss, only to rely on further luck for the trophy to drop.

110 Trials: Since the content is outdated and anyone hoping to accomplish achievements will be spending more time trying to do so now, I think these should also be nerfed down, much like 100 trials. 

Partial Enchant Chest Lv9: : Since it takes more than two months to finish a single 125 set, I believe these enchants should not be locked in the abyss, as this content will remain accessible after the enchantments are gone. Recently, I have invested 6,000 souls and did not receive the specific enchant I desired from the box. I recommend that Lv9 enchantments should be added to 130 trials at a reasonable price, similar to 110 trials. 

Account Wide Achievements: Allowing players to obtain achievement titles on their alternate characters would encourage more individuals to explore and try out different races they may have always wanted to play but previously felt deterred by the achievement requirements. My suggestion is as follows: Upon completing the 1-65 or 1-90 shield achievements on our first character (“Main”), players would receive an "Achievement Title Voucher." All we need to do is show the voucher and the amount of gold that the achievement would have cost (including 129 eternal coin/stardust prices, which I believe is reasonable).
Players could then either open it to receive the titles on their alts or trade it for titles at an NPC. Using an NPC would be beneficial, as it allows for the consolidation of multiple titles in one location. People will be able to find new motivation on Vendetta as a result, and new players will be able to quickly create alts for all the content grinding they will need to do. However, no one will be able to gain achievement points or rank leech by doing this, and the "gold sink" element of doing achievements stays in the game.

Events: : I propose holding more frequent events on the website and in-game. Such holiday-related items were previously available under the "Events" tab, and I believe it would be cool to occasionally reinstate them in between in-game activities. And I'm not referring to the GS-hosted variety; rather, I'm referring to real NPCs, quests, and other activities that provide players with enjoyable activities and minor incentives. 
Potential rewards for these holiday events could include a complimentary Prime DA pet (NT version, if necessary), five event points, one free name change, or even free VGN.
It would be fun to switch between these at random and during the holidays. Despite being "low effort," these are still a means to thank players for their devotion to the server and express gratitude to those who still support Vendetta. 

Necessary Bug Fixes: I would like to highlight two bugs that I believe should be prioritized due to their significant impact on gameplay. Firstly, there is a Lv92+ character certificate bug, which causes players to lose their certificates after a patch. Second, there is the bag bug, in which the inventory renders completely inaccessible, preventing players from seeing, using, or clicking on any items. These two issues severely hinder both PvE and PvP experiences.

Koss Update: I propose removing the CP/EXP Buff from BG and make Koss work for Lv130+. I believe it would be great if the buff lasted at least 6 hours each day and could be claimed once daily so that everyone could get it, unlike BG buff that's only for 1 guild.

Viridian Gorge: : It is sometimes very difficult to get 10 people on this server, especially during specific times of the day. I recommend introducing a five-man mode for this content. We went from being able to make one or two gems in a day (ST, DL, 4T, DF) to spending four to five days attempting to obtain enough crystals to make one gem. I would also like to discuss either buffing the viridian crystals we acquire or nerfing the amount that blueprints cost.

Celestial Corridor 2 - Pisces: Similar to Gemini, this dungeon has two bosses, however the average party's runs are between 9 and 12m. I would like to request that the HP of both bosses be slightly decreased. The dungeon takes a very long time to finish because the bosses have a 12s sleep, a 5s stun (I believe 5s), a purification skill that destroys OUR positive buffs, and her own immunity skill that requires us to proc a trophy to remove it.

Quests: As things stand, some maps are far too dense with mobs, and sharing drops for those mobs takes too long for group questing. I propose that quest drops be adjusted to have individual drops so that alts or questing together can be possible.

                                                                          PvP Changes: 
TW/GvG/GA: At the very least, I think it would be worthwhile to test this suggestion. Limiting guilds to 10–12 members at maximum within PvP maps, in my opinion, will encourage more PvP guilds and solve one of the main issues with this server. 
BG/NCTW: In light of the demise of classic vendetta, I propose reintroducing NCTW at 65 cap, to prevent too many broken items within loot pool. That being said, since our community is far too small, Battleground has not been fully tested and has never been enjoyed by anyone. As a result, it will be removed to make room for NCTW.
Elysian Island: I believe that having this available every weekday at the same time, or even a bit later, can still be advantageous to everyone in need of the soul. I'd still like to propose another solution to address the elysian soul rate problems: consider allowing us to combine either 2 or 4 white items into an alpha, and 2 alphas into a prime. Additionally, it would be helpful to have the option to buy the prime version with PvP tokens from the NPC in Aven. This would help alleviate the issue since not everyone can consistently make the current time slot, and the drop rate is still too harsh.

Though I think it's the best server (even better than Aeria), a lot of people think it's "too grindy." In my opinion, it's just that everything takes way too long, time that the vast majority of players no longer have. We all grew up playing this game, and since we started loving it fifteen years ago, we haven't been able to let go of it. As someone who sees the view of those who don't have a lot of time, kindly try to view it from the perspective of the community and widen your heart and mind to once again be more open and friendly to the player base, like during 100 cap days. We appreciate your efforts in maintaining the server for such a long time. Instead of the server feeling like a chore, as it does now, it would be really cool to see the staff taking care of it again.

I hope this server continues to grow and that you have the best life has to offer, thank you. 

[Perroempapado]

Hi hi~
I'd like to take the opportunitty to raise some points that could, in my opinion, benefit the overall experience. Starting with some that are more misc to more dng/pve specific things.
That being said, I will also take the occasion to say that I agree with pretty much all of the suggestions by Nanami

So, here we go uvu. I'm going to say the mechanic and also a solution in the same point as I believe this will show the logic behind each one.

• Since we had the blood knight nerfed, as I take it the change was to motivate the players to use other classes, I do think this could have been done way more efficiently. And since this is the most noticeable in places where one lvl's up classes, one of the "fixes" I thought of that would not change the idea behind the nerf would be to get rid of the stun in normal & elite mobs in battle maps, this way we could build/explore some other classes to run.
   
• With the arcane box now making some items by 9 & 90 at a time I believe items such as: Rose Milk, Wine Braised Pork Chop, Organic Juice, etc... should be able to be made by 9 & 90 at a time. As the way it currently is, with 2s for one item, to get a stack (999) we waste exactly 33 min in arcane box. The time consumal of this feat is why I believe quite a few players never even explore the things we have in arcane box.
   
• Semi on-topic with Organic Juices and Eyebloom bread, if these two items and particular could be crafted withouth the need to take the quest for the base item to drop and also change the mob for the bread to the one that is on surface and not underground would be a saver.
   
• Currently the unidentified maps take 3s to open, if this was changed to instantaneous it would also be helpful. While not making the achievement related to them any easier.
   
• Items such as Snipers Patch, Strike Patch, Malice Up and Malice Down potions to overwrite each other or have the player be able to remove the buff manually. Pretty straightforward imo :0 the patchs are a nuisance and the potions can have quite the dramatic effect on bosses like Fox and Aquarius where we have a role designed to take agro and sometimes we want to rotate the person that does so, and the swap would be easier this way.
   
• Hoo weapons & trophies; so uh while Hoo is way easier now that it once was, both of this achievements have pretty much gone stale, so quite a few people dont have of them. Now this is not really an issue but it would be nice to see some parties hunt for it so to incentivate this Hoo weapons could ask for 5 essences (2 specific and 3 blent) or make them 50% base. And for trophies to make the drop rate higher.
   
• Regading some other stackables, things such as Dragon souls, Carnage potions are currently only to a 100 the stack and guard/power scrolls to 250, if this could get changed to 999 it would be very much appreciated. And while in this topic, like the trophy enchants getting the gem bps to stack even to 20 would be really, really helpful.
   
• Currently CC is also kinda dead, even CC2. To change this it would help making CC gems tradeable again as this did motivate quite a few geared players to go again to this dng.
   
• Regarding CC gems. As it is now we have to hover mouse over the active gem to know which one is active, and as some decisions depend on which is the gem active at the time the situation is less than desirable, an easy fix to this would be to replace the Icon shown in buffs to be that of the achievement of killing it, for example: Sagittarius in the case of a Sagi gem, and the way to differentiate between 1H, 2H and Off-hand would be a little 1, 2 and O (for off hand) in the bottom right.

The rest I had thought of has already been said by Nanami, as it was regarding drops in Trial 130 being too low and adding enchant boxes to either npc and/or to bosses in the trials.

Thats all \o\ Thanks for reading.

[Jordan]

13 hours ago, Nanami said:

Dungeons/Bosses:

130 Trials

Reroll System

We spent a lot of time testing doing runs with undergeared people and normal geared people to get the HP right. We had to obviously meet in the middle as HP for people under geared is a 5 second boss for a geared person. I feel like the current amount is fair. I can look into the break points values a bit but each break was specifically chosen like i do with most content so this will remain unchanged.

From my own testing along with Doudou the rates are fine.

Rerolling is an extra feature no manditory. I specifically went out my way to recode the system to allow rerolling of already accomplished weapons so that you can reroll at any point of time and its not like before where you get a 104% you +14 it, then you get a 118% and now have to refort again then when you get 120% refort again. At a later date when the content is outdated I may reduce it, but right now its the latest content and right now these weapons have places in the meta for both new people and existing people.

13 hours ago, Nanami said:

Blood Knight Nerf:

Its not anything of the sorts.

Blood Knight did its job too well, its suppose to be an entry level farming class that is easy to use and that has not changed at all. What has changed is the speed in which it clears high health monsters and that is it. It shouldn't be the fastest runner in the game as well as the easiest runner in the game.

These changes did not effect this class in any aspect of the game outside of running and it hasn't even prevented it from being a top running class either. It has just opened room for other classes to excel without overbuffing them.

Maybe you are right and it could also be discussed about removing ability to use other weapons but I don't nerf things just to nerf things, I nerf them because it needs to be nerfed because any discussion about maybe you should try X or Y class for running ends up with, well BK is still faster or the same as with a lot less effort.

13 hours ago, Nanami said:

Haven of Oblivion:

110 Trials:

Partial Enchant Chest Lv9:

Account Wide Achievements:

Events:

Necessary Bug Fixes:

Koss Update:

Viridian Gorge:

Celestial Corridor 2 - Pisces:
Quests:

Will look into it.

They're fine at the moment, may change it in some time but they still have some purpose as of the moment.

Already explained thoughts refer to other post.

People don't particpate on website / forum events unless its note your name down and potentially win something. In game events we mostly do them around holiday seasons. But they're time consuming and too many of them people engage less with them so its good to have a good balance between them to not have too many. Halloween and Xmas will have event bosses, Halloween wont have quests Xmas will. They are definitely not low effort and will interfere with actual patch work so more events = less content.

Never heard of this certificate bug. I would like some video or ways to recreate it. I can assure you it has nothing to do with patches (only maybe the agent could have caused it but ive not heard about it). As for bag bug nobody can provide me with an explanation on how to reproduce it, it seems random and that makes it hard to fix. If you can get me a step by step how to recreate it, consider it fixed with a week or two easy (just like the auto sort deleting certain items, figured out how to reproduce it, fixed withing a week).

The BG buff is there to give incentive to play it. It wouldn't be for 1 guild if people worked together to dethrone the top guild.

Ill say it again. VG is designed for 5-7 players not 10, you do not need 10 people to run the dungeon. The only reason its a 10 man is so that it can be more inclusive to people who are under geared. It is 10% HP or so above being what it should be for 5 geared players.

Don't see anything wrong with it taking that long.

They are where possible, so if its not an individual drop then its probably not possible.

13 hours ago, Nanami said:

                                                                          PvP Changes: 
TW/GvG/GA:
BG/NCTW:
Elysian Island: 

The issue isn't numbers at all, its an attitude problem. People avoid PvP if they cannot win and part of the fun of game is to just play the game and get strong. Guilds would have more members if they tried to win even when against the odds. There isn't a huge discrepancy at the moment between guilds its just a lack of effort on the lesser guild to actually participate. It's been like that for years now and its part of the reason classic died along with every other classic server that pops up. People jump on a new server they start winning, another guild comes along and knocks them down, they quit or move on. At this point its far beyond a server issue its a playerbase issue. Back when I played you had people who would happly go 10vs40 in TW and GvG and it wasn't about winning and the times you did win was the best. Now people think if they lose at GvG they're guna be executed or something. But to TL;DR, changing GvG or TW to 10v10 wont change this lol.

Never bringing back NCTW unless someone gives me a good reason too. The last iteration was as close to perfect as you're going to get with NCTW. It lasted a week and then nobody touched it again and ended up being something people abused for things like Warstones and stuff. Battlegrounds will stay but if I ever think of something to replace it with I might just do that. NCTW isn't it and never will be it.

I have to fix the schedule before I can worry about EI changes. It's just a tricky issue and I havent had time since its not a priority fix. I also have an iteration of arena that has fixed stats and no gear effects in the works and has been in the works for like over a year but again hasn't been a priority since content keeps the train rolling and I have other obligations outside of this to taken care of.

13 hours ago, Nanami said:

Though I think it's the best server (even better than Aeria), a lot of people think it's "too grindy." In my opinion, it's just that everything takes way too long, time that the vast majority of players no longer have. We all grew up playing this game, and since we started loving it fifteen years ago, we haven't been able to let go of it. As someone who sees the view of those who don't have a lot of time, kindly try to view it from the perspective of the community and widen your heart and mind to once again be more open and friendly to the player base, like during 100 cap days. We appreciate your efforts in maintaining the server for such a long time. Instead of the server feeling like a chore, as it does now, it would be really cool to see the staff taking care of it again.

The server has things to work for. Back at 100 cap yeh people argue theres not much grinding to do but back then people complained they where bored constantly. We'd release a patch that takes us 1-2 months to make, within a week people saying they're bored. It's not sustainable and we lost a lot of out players back then. Now people have things to work towards people have things to be doing, they have a reason to login to the game and play the game that isn't centered around  a PvP mode that people are to scared to even play these days. I know what it was like as I played the game back then, EE always became a secondary game that we all only logged in for TW and GvG. A new patch would come out and we'd be busy for a week or two then its back to a another game while afk gathering or becoming one with the Aven flowers.

It may be different now but the retention speaks for itself. When we release content like AT/DF and Abyss. All the numbers are up and stay up for months. We release a content like Trials or VG/DF and yeh the numbers go up, but a month later they're back down because people are done with it. I spend a lot of time monitoring the activity of the game in various aspects and I'm always experimenting with new ways to provide content and ways to improve the content and refine it for the next version.

So you might sit there and think everyones moaning because they have to play daily, but those same people would moan if they completed their gear in a week and had nothing to do. Except atleast now they're moaning and playing the game rather than moaning and playing another game.

I feel like I've explained this to you personally about 5 or 6 times now and I guess it falls on deaf ears?

[Jordan]

10 hours ago, Perroempapado said:

• Since we had the blood knight nerfed, as I take it the change was to motivate the players to use other classes, I do think this could have been done way more efficiently. And since this is the most noticeable in places where one lvl's up classes, one of the "fixes" I thought of that would not change the idea behind the nerf would be to get rid of the stun in normal & elite mobs in battle maps, this way we could build/explore some other classes to run.

Mentioned in my above post why my change was the most effective outcome but glad you saw the reason I did it which means it must have been effective.

 

10 hours ago, Perroempapado said:

• With the arcane box now making some items by 9 & 90 at a time I believe items such as: Rose Milk, Wine Braised Pork Chop, Organic Juice, etc... should be able to be made by 9 & 90 at a time. As the way it currently is, with 2s for one item, to get a stack (999) we waste exactly 33 min in arcane box. The time consumal of this feat is why I believe quite a few players never even explore the things we have in arcane box.

We can look into stuff like this. The arcane box is a very dodgy thing so it's not the most optimal piece of content but it does the job so its less of a priority to other jobs.

 

10 hours ago, Perroempapado said:

• Currently the unidentified maps take 3s to open, if this was changed to instantaneous it would also be helpful. While not making the achievement related to them any easier.

Again something i could look into but its just so far down the list likely wont be any time soon. Since I'd have to do it for every single variation of the item and not just change 1 number and be done.

 

10 hours ago, Perroempapado said:

• Items such as Snipers Patch, Strike Patch, Malice Up and Malice Down potions to overwrite each other or have the player be able to remove the buff manually. Pretty straightforward imo :0 the patchs are a nuisance and the potions can have quite the dramatic effect on bosses like Fox and Aquarius where we have a role designed to take agro and sometimes we want to rotate the person that does so, and the swap would be easier this way.

This would require some system changes because with how the game works right now you cant make an item unremovable but still UI removable. So it means changing these items would make things like remove positive status effects like Kenny Trophy would remove this buff from you. Now star stones do allow for this but its based on some ID voodoo and not something u can just apply to something else. I know how to fix it but would require a certain overhaul to do, which is something I don't have time for atm.

 

10 hours ago, Perroempapado said:

• Hoo weapons & trophies; so uh while Hoo is way easier now that it once was, both of this achievements have pretty much gone stale, so quite a few people dont have of them. Now this is not really an issue but it would be nice to see some parties hunt for it so to incentivate this Hoo weapons could ask for 5 essences (2 specific and 3 blent) or make them 50% base. And for trophies to make the drop rate higher.

We have already significantly reduced requirements at several points. We are happy with the current speed and will not change. I will look into trophies as mentioned above but remember more trophy drops result in less essence drops because they sway it in the other way.

 

10 hours ago, Perroempapado said:

• Regading some other stackables, things such as Dragon souls, Carnage potions are currently only to a 100 the stack and guard/power scrolls to 250, if this could get changed to 999 it would be very much appreciated. And while in this topic, like the trophy enchants getting the gem bps to stack even to 20 would be really, really helpful.

Usually items stack like that for a reason. As for Power and Guard I don't see why not tho.

 

11 hours ago, Perroempapado said:

• Currently CC is also kinda dead, even CC2. To change this it would help making CC gems tradeable again as this did motivate quite a few geared players to go again to this dng.
• Regarding CC gems. As it is now we have to hover mouse over the active gem to know which one is active, and as some decisions depend on which is the gem active at the time the situation is less than desirable, an easy fix to this would be to replace the Icon shown in buffs to be that of the achievement of killing it, for example: Sagittarius in the case of a Sagi gem, and the way to differentiate between 1H, 2H and Off-hand would be a little 1, 2 and O (for off hand) in the bottom right.

We are looking into ways to improve CC without making something that should be worked for free. CC gems like CC sets are suppose to be earned as they are the current "end-end game content dungeons". So making gems tradable is not the play here even though in theory it would work. So I'm open to suggestions on that, its one of the reasons EC's and the bags where added to give something not gear related thats rewarded to people already maxed.

As for icons I don't really like this approach. Maybe I'll try something but for the most part its kinda fine how it is.

[Rin]

Not really current patch issue, but since this is a suggestions thread, would it be possible to implement a system to fuse multiple Abyssal Essences at a time? Like maybe make an arcane box recipe for x5 and x10. It's not the biggest issue in the game but I think most people don't really make the set as they go, they make it all at one time. And I don't remember the exact math but you have to split your essences into 21? or so stacks of 3 to make all the abyssal essences. Not major, but would be a nice and presumably quick QoL for current content.

[Jordan]

20 hours ago, Rin said:

Not really current patch issue, but since this is a suggestions thread, would it be possible to implement a system to fuse multiple Abyssal Essences at a time? Like maybe make an arcane box recipe for x5 and x10. It's not the biggest issue in the game but I think most people don't really make the set as they go, they make it all at one time. And I don't remember the exact math but you have to split your essences into 21? or so stacks of 3 to make all the abyssal essences. Not major, but would be a nice and presumably quick QoL for current content.

As mentioned in a previous response the Arcane Box is well... hard to work with to put it simply.

I do plan to look into fixing it, its just one of those things thats not at the bottom of the list but not the top either.

It's definatly something I want to improve though as its not just this specific feature that gets bogged down by the arcane box being dodgy.

[Hoshino]

Hello there,

Regarding some of the already mentioned suggestions/issues and additional ones:

• Bag Bug: This bug has been around for some time, most likely since the Backpack UI changes were implemented. Its occurrence so far appears to be random, though it seems to happen more often when the player is dead and attempts to use an item, such as a leaf, to revive but is unable to do so.
• Elysian Island and Temple Arena: Viewing it from the perspective of a developer, a very low drop rate for the souls could potentially mean a better participance and retention ratio for these types of content. However, maintaining engagement becomes difficult in scenarios when players attempt to obtain these items for several or even months without noticeable progress. For now it seems not high priority, but once some changes are made, such as adding trading features for rarer souls, it could potentially boost player participation in the long term, giving players more incentive to engage due to the added sense of progression and reward.
• Loyalty Shop Search: This may not be high priority as well, and not sure how manageable it is to code, but adding a search feature for the loyalty shop would be a great QoL for people that are constantly crafting or making achievements for their characters. Along with the existing ability to buy specific material quantities, this enhancement would further optimize these procedures.

In addition to this, I would like to share some ideas that might have been overlooked during the review of the recent feedback suggestions and address a few areas that might need further clarification.

On 10/22/2024 at 7:44 PM, Perroempapado said:

Since we had the blood knight nerfed, as I take it the change was to motivate the players to use other classes, I do think this could have been done way more efficiently. And since this is the most noticeable in places where one lvl's up classes, one of the "fixes" I thought of that would not change the idea behind the nerf would be to get rid of the stun in normal & elite mobs in battle maps, this way we could build/explore some other classes to run.

Another way to efficiently manage this without the need of nerfing is to tweak around the ability of PvE and PvP differentiated stats and buffs. Instead of weakening the current class, why not buff overshadowed or underused classes like Mecha Ares, Master Fencer or Arch-Elementalist to equalize or even surpass BK's performance in terms of mob killing, since they take more time to build than the latter, and it would be more rewarding for players who invest in them. If this is a concern for PvP, make this change only effective in PvE environments. I believe it's fair to consider, and would add more dynamism with these features.

On 10/23/2024 at 6:34 AM, Jordan said:

People don't particpate on website / forum events unless its note your name down and potentially win something. In game events we mostly do them around holiday seasons. But they're time consuming and too many of them people engage less with them so its good to have a good balance between them to not have too many. Halloween and Xmas will have event bosses, Halloween wont have quests Xmas will. They are definitely not low effort and will interfere with actual patch work so more events = less content.

From my understanding, the idea of promoting more frequent events is not only focus in-game and the forums, but rather basic events done via the official website. Low effort not meaning events in-game, but more specifically just logging into the website, click on the "Events" tab, and get a variety of potential rewards. I believe the website hasn't been active in this aspect for a very long time, and it would definitely take no effort to manage and avoid the necessity of manually delivering rewards to specific winners. A good balance between these, and normal in-game and forum activities would encourage an overall greater interaction with the player base, and would definitely serve as an additional way to show appreciation for those who still stick around.

On 10/23/2024 at 6:34 AM, Jordan said:

The issue isn't numbers at all, it's an attitude problem. People avoid PvP if they cannot win and part of the fun of game is to just play the game and get strong. [...] At this point its far beyond a server issue its a playerbase issue. Back when I played you had people who would happly go 10vs40 in TW and GvG and it wasn't about winning and the times you did win was the best.

A natural aspect of any video game is the constant shift in its player base. For instance, the player base has significantly reduced since cap 100, for example. Back then, even if one day your guild ended up against 4+ guilds in TW, there was still a chance to win depending if you were lucky enough to be on the winner side and more possibly win that way by capping. Nowadays, with significantly less amount of players and far more destructive damage and crowd control saturation, even just two additional players can tip the scales significantly. It can be frustrating to be consistently on the ground, with limited options to adapt through class or party composition, as player numbers now have a greater impact on outcomes, considering today's mechanics.

Probably not a plain 10v10 or so, but I believe adjusting the cap in the number of players a guild can have during battlefield would certainly benefit smaller guilds and incentive them to participate, as there are more options to work with, and probably not win, but now they have a slightly bigger chance to do. This change would also add an interesting dynamic for larger guilds, as now they have to carefully decide which players are best suited to attend and probably incentive the less geared players for a chance to be on the "team". It may or may not solve the "attitude" of everyone, but I think it's an idea that could be considered, maybe tweak around a little, and who knows, maybe a step of the right direction.

On 10/23/2024 at 6:34 AM, Jordan said:

It may be different now but the retention speaks for itself. When we release content like AT/DF and Abyss. All the numbers are up and stay up for months. We release a content like Trials or VG/DF and yeh the numbers go up, but a month later they're back down because people are done with it. I spend a lot of time monitoring the activity of the game in various aspects and I'm always experimenting with new ways to provide content and ways to improve the content and refine it for the next version.

In my perspective, this approach only widens the gap between new players and endgame content. I can agree that if the content is too easy, you would see scenarios where people complain about the patch being too easy after a week, but I believe we are now reaching the other extreme. Personally, I no longer have enough time to play the game as I used to, naturally because of life changes, so viewing the amount of time required to effectively utilize a specific role feels quite discouraging for me and likely for many other players as well that want to come back. I appreciate the efforts to maintain the player base and create a sense of "meaning" with each login, I just believe this ratio, if not constant, will gradually decrease over time, with less chance of new players to engage in the game.

[banluysrul]

i'm just doing enchant 1-90 nearly 2yrs but not been complete yet . what i have want to suggestion please increase fame each city so when we submit fame 10k can buy enchant from box fame each city the good ways to sloved it. im been open  nearly 500 orange box and im already kill monster each city for get piece of maps 1 2 3 to combine and im also open baby phoenix and green version too im try all my best to finish enchant just a few left . i'm gonna hope in next update gonna have gift for Eden vendetta lover like me . thank you alots for reading .

GOD BLESSING US HEALTHY WEALTHY AND HAPPIES.

GOD BLESSING VENDETTA AND ALL STUFFS.

[Jordan]

On 10/26/2024 at 4:12 PM, Hoshino said:

Hello there,

Regarding some of the already mentioned suggestions/issues and additional ones:

• Bag Bug: This bug has been around for some time, most likely since the Backpack UI changes were implemented. Its occurrence so far appears to be random, though it seems to happen more often when the player is dead and attempts to use an item, such as a leaf, to revive but is unable to do so.
• Elysian Island and Temple Arena: Viewing it from the perspective of a developer, a very low drop rate for the souls could potentially mean a better participance and retention ratio for these types of content. However, maintaining engagement becomes difficult in scenarios when players attempt to obtain these items for several or even months without noticeable progress. For now it seems not high priority, but once some changes are made, such as adding trading features for rarer souls, it could potentially boost player participation in the long term, giving players more incentive to engage due to the added sense of progression and reward.
• Loyalty Shop Search: This may not be high priority as well, and not sure how manageable it is to code, but adding a search feature for the loyalty shop would be a great QoL for people that are constantly crafting or making achievements for their characters. Along with the existing ability to buy specific material quantities, this enhancement would further optimize these procedures.

 

As mentioned above. Unless someone can reproduce it everytime its pretty hard to fix because obviously to fix something I have to be able to diagnose it and then test the fix and not sort of just yolo it and hope its fixed. So far I'm not seeing how this issue is created but its not like I'm ignoring it either.

Rewards in general are just hard to do as once people have everything the content offers they seem to stop particpating. I have heard from players that TK is still done for EP and I have saw in peer chat when I've logged in people talking about the bosses so I know it's not dead but the activity compared to release is way down. I think when it comes to the souls its the Elysian one people have issues with.

It's on the list. Just a general update to that in general will be nice (I already added the buy as many as you want option that people requested).

 

On 10/26/2024 at 4:12 PM, Hoshino said:

Another way to efficiently manage this without the need of nerfing is to tweak around the ability of PvE and PvP differentiated stats and buffs. Instead of weakening the current class, why not buff overshadowed or underused classes like Mecha Ares, Master Fencer or Arch-Elementalist to equalize or even surpass BK's performance in terms of mob killing, since they take more time to build than the latter, and it would be more rewarding for players who invest in them. If this is a concern for PvP, make this change only effective in PvE environments. I believe it's fair to consider, and would add more dynamism with these features.

 

More often than not I do balance via buffing rather than nerfing but the issue with BK is that classes like MF / BA / Mecha aren't really bad classes at running and they where the running meta before BK's rework and for some time after too.

The issue with BK is it was always suppose to be an easy class to run on and very much and entry level class because of how its really hard to die on with its higher defences and plenty of healing built into the class. This is why it has % HP damage on the class. However, people have started using it as the main running class and when asked why they choose BK over MF for example the usual answer is that the MF isn't any faster but takes significantly more effort to use which I presume you agree is not really right? Effort should be rewarded so if a class that takes little effort can outrun other aoe farming classes that take more effort then clearly one class is the issue.

That being said the nerfs are so minor and likely only sway the balance slightly in favour of the other classes and I think people are highly overreacting to it. I think most people who are upset are upset because they have BK geared over other classes (which was sort of hinted at by the original poster). If I had buffed MF and MF became the main runner again then it's likely those same people would be upset anyway because they're still guna have to build a new class. It's not like I have made BK unplayable and arguably its still S-Tier at running. It's just no longer the clear best option.

On 10/26/2024 at 4:12 PM, Hoshino said:

From my understanding, the idea of promoting more frequent events is not only focus in-game and the forums, but rather basic events done via the official website. Low effort not meaning events in-game, but more specifically just logging into the website, click on the "Events" tab, and get a variety of potential rewards. I believe the website hasn't been active in this aspect for a very long time, and it would definitely take no effort to manage and avoid the necessity of manually delivering rewards to specific winners. A good balance between these, and normal in-game and forum activities would encourage an overall greater interaction with the player base, and would definitely serve as an additional way to show appreciation for those who still stick around.

Takes a lot of work because it's not something I have access to and would require me pestering Bash to add and remove stuff which he often has a lot of other tasks to do. It's also not really a good idea because it's very un-interactive and always gets a lot of alt accounts claiming rewards and in my eyes that punishes people who only have 1 account. Even if the rewards are NT, we dont use the NT binding EC's like official does so anything you get with them is still tradable. You'd be surprised how much effort people go through to claim free rewards.

Having in-game events where people kill a boss and get rewards or complete quests is much more interactive and sparks activity in the game. Which is much healthier for the game than just login, click a button and get rewards.

On 10/26/2024 at 4:12 PM, Hoshino said:

A natural aspect of any video game is the constant shift in its player base. For instance, the player base has significantly reduced since cap 100, for example. Back then, even if one day your guild ended up against 4+ guilds in TW, there was still a chance to win depending if you were lucky enough to be on the winner side and more possibly win that way by capping. Nowadays, with significantly less amount of players and far more destructive damage and crowd control saturation, even just two additional players can tip the scales significantly. It can be frustrating to be consistently on the ground, with limited options to adapt through class or party composition, as player numbers now have a greater impact on outcomes, considering today's mechanics.

Probably not a plain 10v10 or so, but I believe adjusting the cap in the number of players a guild can have during battlefield would certainly benefit smaller guilds and incentive them to participate, as there are more options to work with, and probably not win, but now they have a slightly bigger chance to do. This change would also add an interesting dynamic for larger guilds, as now they have to carefully decide which players are best suited to attend and probably incentive the less geared players for a chance to be on the "team". It may or may not solve the "attitude" of everyone, but I think it's an idea that could be considered, maybe tweak around a little, and who knows, maybe a step of the right direction.

 

I would argue the game is in a much more balanced state than back then. Back when I played most actively you had classes that if you built too much damage you killed yourself, you had classes putting up barriers so you couldn't even damage crystals, classes that had infinite stun locks and thats before they even added all the high % transforms and buff removal trophies that we have nerfed into the ground. Yes the game still has a damage problem and there is quite a lot of CC but I find it very hard to believe (having played it a bit since) that its any worse than back then. And we still won territories with being against the server being 1 and a half parties. Yeh maybe with balance that changed but its 100% an attitude problem. Back when I was testing the reworked classes I could see the attitude issues creaping into the game, people logging out till the next day to save pod buffs because we're against xyz guild. Even if the game was perfectly balanced we'd still have the same issues because the community is just different now. Preventing guilds from playing with the friends isn't going to help with activity on the game at all because your either guna get people teaming up with their friends in alt guilds which then floods the ticket system with how unfair it is or people just not playing the game anymore.

The only way to fix pvp activity is for the community to actually just play for fun. Maybe removing rewards or something could make it more casual or changing them to be more focused on individuals than guilds might help. But its hard to do that without completely screwing over the support players. I dont even think the top guilds at the moment have a considerable amount more players than the 2nd and 3rd place guilds for this change to make any difference. The only people who tend to suggest this is the people in the 2nd or 3rd place guilds who lose and blame it that they had 12 people and we had 10 its so unfair. It's never the winning guild and its almost never brought up when two guilds are trading wins daily and not just 1 clear winner.

If there was 30vs10 now then yeh it may help.

I mean I just did a quick search and this GvG was what last week and the starting numbers are 23-16. So do you really think lowering this to 20-20 is really guna make a difference or are we guna have to go to 15 - 15 so only the top 15 of each can play potencially making 8 people quit the game because they're not able to play? It just comes across as pandering from the losing guild to try and win without improving when in reality its likely not going to change much.

Spoiler

 

 

On 10/26/2024 at 4:12 PM, Hoshino said:

 

In my perspective, this approach only widens the gap between new players and endgame content. I can agree that if the content is too easy, you would see scenarios where people complain about the patch being too easy after a week, but I believe we are now reaching the other extreme. Personally, I no longer have enough time to play the game as I used to, naturally because of life changes, so viewing the amount of time required to effectively utilize a specific role feels quite discouraging for me and likely for many other players as well that want to come back. I appreciate the efforts to maintain the player base and create a sense of "meaning" with each login, I just believe this ratio, if not constant, will gradually decrease over time, with less chance of new players to engage in the game.

I don't disagree. But my job is to create a game that people can play and have plenty of things to do. Like whats the point in running a game where if only say 3 big updates come out a year, If those updates take less than a month then thats what 3 months a year people get to play. The good thing about an MMO is you can play at your own pace. If you only have an hour a day why not just do the daily abyss and thats it. Then once your set is done then you can do daily AT/DF. No one is saying you have to do Abyss, AT/DF, CC all in one day every day. You can be selective in what you do for what time you have, the point is you always have something to do.

As for the gap, again I agree but look at every single big content patch I have done. I'm always trying to find ways to make the path into the game easier. We literally give new players a full free 130 set and weapon which yes isn't the best in slot gear, but its good enough to join an Abyss party.

Again it comes back to attitude. I have had several people I know personally start this game over the past few years, starting from nothing. Every single time the thing holding them back is the players, you cannot join abyss unless you have gailett ring. Ohh you don't have abyss set, go farm palace then you can join our abyss party. Ohh you wanna do Sagittarius? Well you need full Sagittarius to join our party. I'm trying my best to open the game up to new people but I can only do so much and often times people moan about how giving I am to new players because they feel like they should earn it.

[nyvea]

Being able to trade amethyst stones x100 or x500 to Hanga would be a minor but useful improvement for crafters.

Regarding players attitude in PvE, it seems that some players are like "this party sucks, we won't be able to clear Fox in less than 1 min, then I prefer to leave and not do it at all". That's why solo Abyss was a good help for people struggling to find pt. But a new player enjoying the game still depends too much on whether or not this player is friend with a geared player that is willing to help him.

[Akyme]

Hello,

Even if I'm not playing and can't anymore because of 24h2 lol, seeing this topic seems nice to me.
I mostly agree with what Nanami said about PvE changes, some content being old like Heaven of Oblivion, some change that should be done or so. 
Globally, it's QoL that are good to take, that would help newcomers and wouldn't change the end-game content. Just being more friendly. Your server has now a lot of content to do, to deal with, that it's getting hard to know what to begin with or where to spend our gaming time.

Most of players want to reach the cap level, and be geared enough to run content with their friend, however the "toxic" trait of your server is, you need a specific class to be in a party, which doesn't allow anyone to play what he wants. 
Regarding this, this is mostly because you designed BP to be all in one, instead of using 3-4 BP max per boss.
Well, class balance has also something to do, as there is no better p-dps PvE than Blade Master / Executionner, so people wants only the best player to play them, which doesn't sound abnormal when you want to run fast because there is so much to do. On this one topic, I'm just talking about every content before the new CC, since I haven't really played after that.
The server got empty and emptier already back at that time, which made it painful to make party on different timezone and made more and more players leaving.

Anyway, the most important point from your reply is about the player base that you mentionned Jordan. You might be wrong about the way to think it, or half wrong I guess. 

Indeed, if you do too much content for the EE playerbase, they'll be lazy to farm, it'll be a pain to get gears spending a full week to get. 
Indeed again, if you make it too easy, they'll complain there is nothing to do.

So, it's getting hard to know what to do, right ? There I don't have a real answer, I would say it's just a question of choice and priority you want to give.

"1-months private server" never lasted more because the few first that opened didn't have knoweldge to edit the game. Players got bored of it because of the number of bugs, then saw it as a cash-grab and didn't want to experience it more. The few left that are / were well running aren't played because of the dev themself, making shit choices or using it as a "playground area". This is why even if the first random guy released a new EE server, it wouldn't work unless there is the tag "VGN" that is trustful to all EE players.

VGN Classic died because and simply because, splitting the community isn't the way. EE community is already small, even if VGN Classic had the biggest community as its released, you've done wrong choice as well (Hello P2W safety stone, being greedy, as I said I'm just talking about its very begining) that made players leaving, and once they left, it's pretty hard to maintain it. Also and sadly, normal classes server aren't meant to be a thing in EE. We like what's broken, and awaken classes are.
I might be wrong, but when Classic was at its prime, I believe Awaken was pretty empty, no ?

However, PvP always been a thing, at least for the European community, and I believe you just focused on the wrong timezone. Most of EU players are PvP, lazy to farm PvE and won't mind if things are easy, they'll just log in for TW / GvG, which brings a real activity to the server, since you'll need to be at least a bit geared to make it so you'll do PvE content. Of course, this isn't really friendly for newcomers, as people won't run a lot of PvE once they're geared unless to help their friends. Here comes the meaning of a guild, and the way to lead it. You can't do anything about it lmao.

You said that people don't do TW because they know they won't win, it's not true. PvP players enjoy the fun of the game, being able to do things even 1vs4+. There is no better feeling than a fight you have to stress for. Your PvP has been designed to never be able to do anything if you're alone vs a few people, while on Aeria and on X-Legends, you can 1vs10+. This is the only difference, knowing that you can do something, or nothing. Even if the best player of your server came in TW, he couldn't do much against a 10-players party. This is mostly because we all can gear up an cap stats, while on Aeria / X-Legends, reaching a full stats weren't  meant for everyone. And now, on X-Legends, everyone can reach a full stats, but the new mechanics make the difference (P2W items lmao) aside the fact you can one shot most of common players. Not very fun to one shot I admit, but you won't get one shot if you geared well and built a party with various classes.
As old french guild leader I was, we never did TW / GvG because of the timezone, and BG because of lags issue (you admit, or you don't, but those lags were reals to us and this is what matters). If you ask a few people, they'll tell you we showed up a few times (JambonSuperStar or Pixel guild), and stopped pretty fast as the PvP wasn't fun at all.

Have you ever considered the question "Why a such P2W server like X-Legends has a higher playerbase than VGN while there is no PvP in X-Legends server ?"
The P2W of X-Legends is around 1k2~1k5$ per month if you want to keep up with the best items / gears.
The "P2W" side of your server is, you spend maybe 100$ and you can already be well geared, not the best, not a beast, but really good already. And you spend it only once. 
So why X-Legends is having more players ? Only because of the "Official" tag ? 
I'm not gonna answer that question by my own, I believe that it's better if you truly think about it, and I hope you won't just say "because community is stupid".

My last opinion about your server is that absolutely 0 content should be designed to be ran by 10+ players. I'm taking the VG example, you say that it only requires 5-7 geared players, in my opinion, it should be a 5P dgn, that requires only 3 geared players. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any raid mode dungeon, just that 3 geared players should be enough to run it and whatever the class they use, which would make it more friendly for newcomers too.
It's not only about "server is dead or not", it's a lot with player's motivation / timezone. You can have 99k players, if nobody wants to run the VG dgn, good luck making a party. 

A lot of mind speak, but it's not random speak, I've played EE since 2013 and never stopped, I played almost every private server, I played yours and reached the top gears / achievements, I am currently playing X-Legends.
It's more my personnal experience, you consider or you don't, that's up to you. o/

As this is a free-speech and there is no trash-talk, I hope that you'll keep it clean and that we won't go into shit fight as we already did, let's not waste time.

Also, we've discussed about it already but, please consider changing the font of your server. It's old and not pretty  Working well (aside specials characters), but really not good looking  

Aky

[Jordan]

2 hours ago, Akyme said:

Most of players want to reach the cap level, and be geared enough to run content with their friend, however the "toxic" trait of your server is, you need a specific class to be in a party, which doesn't allow anyone to play what he wants. 
Regarding this, this is mostly because you designed BP to be all in one, instead of using 3-4 BP max per boss.
Well, class balance has also something to do, as there is no better p-dps PvE than Blade Master / Executionner, so people wants only the best player to play them, which doesn't sound abnormal when you want to run fast because there is so much to do. On this one topic, I'm just talking about every content before the new CC, since I haven't really played after that.
The server got empty and emptier already back at that time, which made it painful to make party on different timezone and made more and more players leaving.

Anyway, the most important point from your reply is about the player base that you mentionned Jordan. You might be wrong about the way to think it, or half wrong I guess. 

This is a community mindset issue and this is why I put the blame there in my response. Theres a good number of reasons and I'm not saying I'm god of all and know everything that is right. But realistically from my own knowledge talking to people and consulting with people within the community. People can quite happly do content on pretty much half the classes in the game. Aslong as the classes bring a little synergy within its party then its fine regardless of what you play (full mdps on some of the AT/DF bosses adds like 2-3 minutes to a kill). This isn't just an issue with my content though. Because the same thing happened on the Classic server. People where running trials and wanting "optimal" class setups. Awaken classes are just worse because the difference between optimal and unoptimal is greater and theres nothing I can do about that other than nerfing everything which people would hate more than just leaving it as is.

BP wouldn't really change this as most the optimal setups are pdps related and executioner can just swap between slash and strike, failing that you have pierce setups instead. As for making none pdps break bosses that would just hurt the community too much as any attempt of making people play mdps just kinda backfires for the most part. Plus you still have the option of just having for Anni's with elemental bullets to break thens swap back to pierce.

 

2 hours ago, Akyme said:

"1-months private server" never lasted more because the few first that opened didn't have knoweldge to edit the game. Players got bored of it because of the number of bugs, then saw it as a cash-grab and didn't want to experience it more. The few left that are / were well running aren't played because of the dev themself, making shit choices or using it as a "playground area". This is why even if the first random guy released a new EE server, it wouldn't work unless there is the tag "VGN" that is trustful to all EE players.

VGN Classic died because and simply because, splitting the community isn't the way. EE community is already small, even if VGN Classic had the biggest community as its released, you've done wrong choice as well (Hello P2W safety stone, being greedy, as I said I'm just talking about its very begining) that made players leaving, and once they left, it's pretty hard to maintain it. Also and sadly, normal classes server aren't meant to be a thing in EE. We like what's broken, and awaken classes are.
I might be wrong, but when Classic was at its prime, I believe Awaken was pretty empty, no ?

Just simply not true. Yeh some servers open with inexperienced devs but you have people opening several servers at this point. Pretty sure the current ones on its second or third release at this point and the one before it was his second or third attempt too. Just because they change the name and get new people involved doesn't mean the servers are new and inexperienced devs. Not guna name drop the guy but the same person has worked on pretty much every single other private server that has opened sharing his knowledge with whoever else. They die for a number of reasons but not going to go into that.

As for classic. I actively monitored everything so I know exactly what hurt it. Opening it barely effected our Awaken numbers as most the people playing it had already quit or where just playing after we announced it was going to open. The only damage that happened to our Awaken server because of classic based on my own analytics which is much more detailed was the price of PGC card sales in game went up because people who had some left over gold where trading it to use on classic instead. Something of which was completely out of our control without just completly preventing card sales out right.

Classic first loss of player base came because the big guild at the time lost to the second biggest guild so they all quit (I have the discord messages sent to me that prove this to be the case before anyone tries to disprove it) and then a few weeks later a f2p server opened up and that took a bunch of the smaller guilds who where unhappy that everything wasn't free. Whether the model we chose to try and market the game to make it have value was right or wrong is not up for discussion here but yeh the smaller guilds especially quit over it.

 

2 hours ago, Akyme said:

Have you ever considered the question "Why a such P2W server like X-Legends has a higher playerbase than VGN while there is no PvP in X-Legends server ?"
The P2W of X-Legends is around 1k2~1k5$ per month if you want to keep up with the best items / gears.
The "P2W" side of your server is, you spend maybe 100$ and you can already be well geared, not the best, not a beast, but really good already. And you spend it only once. 
So why X-Legends is having more players ? Only because of the "Official" tag ? 
I'm not gonna answer that question by my own, I believe that it's better if you truly think about it, and I hope you won't just say "because community is stupid".

A lot of the people who play this server wont touch a private server and again from my own data when it first released our numbers didn't even go down as most people who tried it where back in days. So as much as it would be nice to have these players I believe these people would rather not play EE than play a private server and I know a number of them from one of the guilds there and yes they would never play the private server even if they knew I was running it.

Plus there numbers aren't much higher than ours based on the data I have. They just have a more active PvP but they also have a lower quality PvP where people don't really care for class combinations and synergy so it might be more enjoyable because its less try hard. They also have lots of VTubers and such playing it for advertisement which again these kinds of people wouldn't touch a private server so sadly its not something we can do much about.

2 hours ago, Akyme said:

My last opinion about your server is that absolutely 0 content should be designed to be ran by 10+ players. I'm taking the VG example, you say that it only requires 5-7 geared players, in my opinion, it should be a 5P dgn, that requires only 3 geared players. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any raid mode dungeon, just that 3 geared players should be enough to run it and whatever the class they use, which would make it more friendly for newcomers too.
It's not only about "server is dead or not", it's a lot with player's motivation / timezone. You can have 99k players, if nobody wants to run the VG dgn, good luck making a party. 

 

I made it a 10 man so there is spaces for people who are struggling to get a party. It was also an experiment to try and see if people would be sensible and bring more people with them that are undergeared just to fill the slots. I have to try something to make newer and undergeared people be able to do stuff and this was a good content to trial it with. It's not my fault the community see the words 10 players and say you need 10 players who are maxed out to run it.

 

--

 

Also I saw your comments on discord (passed to me).

Just to clarify we cannot just make the game work with 24H2 and none of the computers both me and Vivi have access to can get this update they seem to be stuck at 23H2. So I'm not just leaving it as is but there isn't a lot I can do to fix this. You can't just grab the latest bin file because it would break so much custom content and bug fixes that we have done. So please stop talking about this stuff like you know what your saying because it's just simply not the case and your welcome to reach out to me for clarification because I always try to be as open as possible and I mean you just have to look at my patch notes history to know I wont just leave issues if I can fix them even if it takes months to do.

[Akyme]

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

Also I saw your comments on discord (passed to me).

Just to clarify we cannot just make the game work with 24H2 and none of the computers both me and Vivi have access to can get this update they seem to be stuck at 23H2. So I'm not just leaving it as is but there isn't a lot I can do to fix this. You can't just grab the latest bin file because it would break so much custom content and bug fixes that we have done. So please stop talking about this stuff like you know what your saying because it's just simply not the case and your welcome to reach out to me for clarification because I always try to be as open as possible and I mean you just have to look at my patch notes history to know I wont just leave issues if I can fix them even if it takes months to do.

Either you didn't get the full Discord comments, either you missunderstood. I haven't say it's gonna be easy or just a 5 min work, I said it's do-able, but it would need a lot of adjustements / works / tests.
I've myself tested the use of the bin files from Aeria and the FNO version (not the Global's one), switching the config files, and yes, it breaks a lot of things, like a lot lot, but the game launch, then it's all about debug. Sadly, just doing that isn't enough in your case as you've done a lot of bug fixes that has nothing to do with the config files, and there is my own limit about this, I don't know more. One more time, it's not just 5 min of debug, it's a lot of work but that could be worth it.
Anyway, arguing about that won't make the topic better, I've already said it on Discord that by the time, you're still the most experienced about EE dev, you've got your own tools. If there is a way, I believe you'll find it out.

I mean, someday we will all have the 24H2 version of Windows, if Microsoft doesn't fix the issue and you don't, who will ? We will just be unable to play and that's sad, so in my opinion, we can worry about that one topic.
Well, after research, I've heard that Microsoft is working on a fix of what they broke with the 24H2 version, but who knows if their fix will work on EE VGN. And, this one issue might be back someday, sadly.

Regarding the Windows Update, if you can't get it, it simply is because Microsoft esteem that your computer is not ready yet and will be updated in the next weeks / months or once they decide the update is more stable.
However, if you do full new install of your Operating System, it'll be the 24H2 version (using the last ISO of Windows, downloaded thanks to the official website with the Microsoft Tool, same below link).

If you want to force the update, you can still use the Windows assistant instead of Windows Update (Download Windows 11). However, make sure to do a backup before, as it could break some things of your Operating System just like every big update does.

If you ever have a spare computer that support Windows 11, and that you want to test the problem, then I advise you to do a full install on that spare computer. It would be much safer.

 

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

It's not my fault the community see the words 10 players and say you need 10 players who are maxed out to run it.

I haven't say it's your bad, I am just saying that if you designed that one dungeon to be ran by 3 geared players, and having a few newbies to reach the number of 5-6, this one issue would be meaningless. But it aslo would make the content way easier, it's more a question of what do you want to aim for.

About the class balance and the choice of which class to use, if classes didn't have spell that "increases target's DMG Taken by x%" and just had burst for themself (let's be selfish lmao), we wouldn't use them as it is now. I believe the main issue is from that kind of buff, and of course, would need some rework to damage as good as some others (or to lower some other to be as "bad" as the other).

Example : Trainer
Why do you want a trainer in your party ? Not for his DPS, only for his "target's DMG Taken" buff, and you'll gear it as a debuffer. If you try to do "World Record" of CC, ofc you'll ask your debuffer to maximize his dps without changing his debuff, so maybe you'll gain 1 sec to your score.

M-DPS classes are professional into debuff, they got a lot of elemental resistance reduction skills, which is why they used to lead the PvE and PvP back in the time.
Well, here, you managed to make it work for P-DPS as well. Berserker has a lot of debuff for example, without him, party would be so different, the damage given by Exe / BM would be lowered at least by /2.

In X-Legends server, we aim for M-DPS party for PvE and not P-DPS, just because there is more debuff as M-DPS than P-DPS (Example : Adju > Dragon Star > Stack x8 +10% DMG Taken each stack, + skill that reduces all p-res and m-res by 20 pts, if holy skill, by 30 pts).

I am comparing X-Legends to VGN a lot, I am not saying X-Legends is better or VGN is, I am just grabbing ideas from both server, analyzing different type of gameplay and sharing it. After all, Eden is Eden. 
 

[Akyme]

7 minutes ago, Akyme said:

About the class balance and the choice of which class to use, if classes didn't have spell that "increases target's DMG Taken by x%" and just had burst for themself (let's be selfish lmao), we wouldn't use them as it is now. I believe the main issue is from that kind of buff, and of course, would need some rework to damage as good as some others (or to lower some other to be as "bad" as the other).

By reading myself, I just thought about that : 

With the new mechanic, "Penetration Resistance", you could remove all the resistance debuff from the target by replacing them with Penetration mechanic. It would have almost same effect, beside the fact that you won't cumulate all the party debuff, with the difference that if a mob / player was overcapped, his resistance will still be lowered instead of stayin capped. (Example : Mob / player has 90 Base Fire Res, I have 10 Fire Res Penetration, then the mob / player will have only 60 Fire Res for me). 

Here is just an idea.

[Jordan]

4 minutes ago, Akyme said:

If you ever have a spare computer that support Windows 11, and that you want to test the problem, then I advise you to do a full install on that spare computer. It would be much safer.

I have done this already and so has Vivi and even new installs seem to still be 23H2. I'm not sure why it's been frustrating me for a while now because if I had access I could atleast try things on it because I've read online theres a number of fixes for a variety of different games they broke and if I could at minimum find a bandaide fix I'd be happy because right now the only advice I have for people is roll back or install Windows 10 which is not really the best advice.

 

7 minutes ago, Akyme said:

In X-Legends server, we aim for M-DPS party for PvE and not P-DPS, just because there is more debuff as M-DPS than P-DPS (Example : Adju > Dragon Star > Stack x8 +10% DMG Taken each stack, + skill that reduces all p-res and m-res by 20 pts, if holy skill, by 30 pts).

I am comparing X-Legends to VGN a lot, I am not saying X-Legends is better or VGN is, I am just grabbing ideas from both server, analyzing different type of gameplay and sharing it. After all, Eden is Eden. 
 

Again as mentioned above I believe this to be product of environment. I know people who play that server and people who did play it before and there just isn't the same level of scrutiny towards if a run takes 5 minutes or it takes 10 minutes. MDPS has actually never been the best and optimal setup for parties ever. I mean just looking at classic when people ran dungeons optimally it was melee dps and thats what it was like in the past in other servers like playeden when I played. We rarely used mdps in PvE because it was just always faster to run stuff like Samurai and Martial Artist. MDPS was just either for breaking bosses (pre-awaken classes) or just cause you wanted to be lazy on bosses with reflect like Silin in 70-S trials.

I think one thing thats worth noting though. When it comes to official where everything is so damn expensive. You do end up with situations where most players only have 1 class geared so even if you have an "unoptimal" setup, it becomes more optimal because its the difference between a +14 staff and a +6 katana. Where as on here most people can gear any class they want and often times expect the same of others.

 

[Jordan]

7 minutes ago, Akyme said:

By reading myself, I just thought about that : 

With the new mechanic, "Penetration Resistance", you could remove all the resistance debuff from the target by replacing them with Penetration mechanic. It would have almost same effect, beside the fact that you won't cumulate all the party debuff, with the difference that if a mob / player was overcapped, his resistance will still be lowered instead of stayin capped. (Example : Mob / player has 90 Base Fire Res, I have 10 Fire Res Penetration, then the mob / player will have only 60 Fire Res for me). 

Here is just an idea.

While I dont think you are wrong with this its hard to do this when you have 62 classes.

[Akyme]

5 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Again as mentioned above I believe this to be product of environment. I know people who play that server and people who did play it before and there just isn't the same level of scrutiny towards if a run takes 5 minutes or it takes 10 minutes. MDPS has actually never been the best and optimal setup for parties ever. I mean just looking at classic when people ran dungeons optimally it was melee dps and thats what it was like in the past in other servers like playeden when I played. We rarely used mdps in PvE because it was just always faster to run stuff like Samurai and Martial Artist. MDPS was just either for breaking bosses (pre-awaken classes) or just cause you wanted to be lazy on bosses with reflect like Silin in 70-S trials.

P-DPS remains the best, whatever the server is. I fully agree with this, the few difference is, to be very efficient as P-DPS, you need to be better geared than as m-dps. And as you also said, it's easier to fortify a staff to be able to play a bunch of classes, while with just a katana, you would play only one class and its awaken.

 

7 minutes ago, Jordan said:

While I dont think you are wrong with this its hard to do this when you have 62 classes.

Indeed, that's a lot of work.

 

10 minutes ago, Jordan said:

I have done this already and so has Vivi and even new installs seem to still be 23H2. I'm not sure why it's been frustrating me for a while now because if I had access I could atleast try things on it because I've read online theres a number of fixes for a variety of different games they broke and if I could at minimum find a bandaide fix I'd be happy because right now the only advice I have for people is roll back or install Windows 10 which is not really the best advice.

In a first time, make sure the ISO you have is the latest version.
Run CMD as administrator, then type : dism /get-wiminfo /wimfile:G:\sources\install.esd
If install.esd is not found, replace by install.wim
This will show you this result : (sorry it's french)

The "BUILD" version of Windows 24H2 are those : 

• November 21, 2024—KB5046740 (OS Build 26100.2454) Preview
• November 12, 2024—KB5046617 (OS Build 26100.2314)
• October 24, 2024—KB5044384 (OS Build 26100.2161) Preview
• October 8, 2024—KB5044284 (OS Build 26100.2033)
• September 30, 2024—KB5043178 (OS Build 26100.1882) Preview
• September 10, 2024—KB5043080 (OS Build 26100.1742)
• August 27, 2024—KB5041865 (OS Build 26100.1591) Preview
• August 13, 2024—KB5041571 (OS Build 26100.1457)
• July 30, 2024—KB5040529 (OS Build 26100.1301) Preview
• July 9, 2024—KB5040435 (OS Build 26100.1150)
• June 28, 2024—KB5039304 (OS Build 26100.1000) Preview
• June 15, 2024—KB5039239 (OS Build 26100.863)

If it is the latest version, where do you get the information that it is not the 24H2 ? We usually check the current version by doing "winver" in the research bar of Windows. I've heard about a display bug that tells you your Windows is not up to date, and that the 23H2 is out of date, but it's only a display bug. (French again, sorry, but I believe you'll understand).

 

Well maybe you've done all those manipulations already, I'm just giving you some tips that I'm used to deal with. 

[Jordan]

3 hours ago, Akyme said:

 

Guna lock this topic after this.

But reading this post gave me some ideas and I manged to find how to get the update to force through on my other computer.

I have now done some preliminary tests on this and found that there is 0 issues with the executable itself its just an issue on how the game is launched. So I'm guna have a look around and see if there is some fixes to this as I know exactly at what point the game breaks.

Thanks for info related to this.