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The future of the SW class


GoddessSand
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With the coming of a level cap increase, what is the plans of the SW class?

Does the community really want to nerf the hell out of the SW class? I keep hearing that SW's need a nerf, when really the SW lacks any sort of protection because everything is geared to benefit classes built around ch-resist, void, and crit-void while eva/ch-eva/crit-eva are too easy for people to get past.

I've come to a realization that ch-eva and eva in the SW's current state are pointless with players running around with high enough ch-acc/acc that it renders ch-eva/eva utterly useless not to mention the DGs are all catered to eat through any ch-eva and eva that it makes no sense to even have it.

I decided to go straight up DPS with very little protection since basically all there is to do in the game is farm and ch-eva/eva are pointless in TT and you can survive easy with high enough dps and ch-resist in the other DGs. BGs are normally a 1 vs 1 if they occur at all and the SW in dealing with guards in TP won't block their attacks to go straight for the chests like other classes and we need to kill at least 1 guard before the chest. After that there's no pvp to worry about blocking the other player so there's no reason to increase the def there. In NB it's either the other side has too many people and no protection will save you or your side has too many people and you don't even need to use the protection.

With the reverting skills to the level 54 cap skill tree, which every SW can attest that that cap was pretty much a large nerf to the SW class. Yes, the SW class can deal a lot of damage, but given the state of the defense abilities of the other classes it needs too. So, when you consider the future of this class, just because players voice a hate of this class doesn't mean that the SW needs more nerfs. Players who don't even frequent the game daily or been gone for the past 2 months and greater only showing up for the event and leaving again certainly shouldn't be giving any input about what to do with the game. They decided to stop playing and shouldn't be talking about any specific class or the SW class that they never played with. There are so few active SWs any more that maybe a proper skill tree for the class could help it be a better class for players to play over choosing a PU for farming and a WH or SE for pvp, though the ME is always a good support class. If you ask me that's what the game has come down to is those 4 classes. 

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The 54 revert is just putting us back on the sb calculation route. All skills and gear will be updated to reflect 68 cap level of stats. Myself and Luna are very aware of the problems sw face and have no intention of making it a sucky class in the next cap. While we are going back to original sb calculations, we still will have to tweak stats and skills to ensure it works well with the current state of the game. 
 

The dungeon can also be altered. Will just need to figure out with banana. This also gives us an opportunity to map out the acc/chacc vs eva/cheva. Luna, bikini, and I will need to also relook at detect vs conceal. Not sure if I liked asbs version of detect. It was pretty op. And also their calculations on detect vs conceal was annoying with its high numbers. I prefer limes 0-100 range lol. 

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52 minutes ago, Daddy said:

The 54 revert is just putting us back on the sb calculation route. All skills and gear will be updated to reflect 68 cap level of stats. Myself and Luna are very aware of the problems sw face and have no intention of making it a sucky class in the next cap. While we are going back to original sb calculations, we still will have to tweak stats and skills to ensure it works well with the current state of the game. 
 

The dungeon can also be altered. Will just need to figure out with banana. This also gives us an opportunity to map out the acc/chacc vs eva/cheva. Luna, bikini, and I will need to also relook at detect vs conceal. Not sure if I liked asbs version of detect. It was pretty op. And also their calculations on detect vs conceal was annoying with its high numbers. I prefer limes 0-100 range lol. 

well, your current values of detect vs conceal are horrible and not even worth using. Especially when the SW can't conceal with them if they use it and they lose valuable dps if they do.

Not only that but there has been a large lack in actually making eva/ch-eva useful to the SW as every class easily gets added acc/ch-acc buffs with either their atk buffs or def buffs making the eva/ch-eva pretty useless. Other classes, with the exception of the PU, have better paths of tanking the SW aside from the SW being able to kill SWs while buffed, so why can't the SW survive better while they are buffed? I can't name one class other than the PU and SW, that can be killed when fully buffed. That should never be the case. The SW even has the shortest buff for surviving out of all the other classes. I'd like to see the SW have a better chance of surviving like others.  When a character can kill an SW while the SW is buffed, there's something wrong with either the buffs of the SW or the skills of the other player. Sure let the player stun us, but not be able to use a full rotation stun lock and kills us while buffed. Name another character besides the PU and SW that can't tank a player while fully buffed?

I'm not wanting it to be an more OP than the next class, but there really needs to be some means to not make it useless to play. I've always felt that if a player has higher acc/ch-acc power, they should have lower atk power.

 

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On yeah I barely touched detect lol. I mean we can just use aeria detect again it was just ridiculous trying to understand for most of the player base lmao. 
 

And yes I agree. The sws have had the short end of the stick for awhile and I get what your saying. I think nemesis is probably like the last time I remember seeing acc/chacc make you lose dps. 

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Class is only as good as the user. 

I can think of numerous ways how an SW can easily pick up a kill, and it can potentially kill any class easily at the current patch.


Most of the SW sounds like a broken sad boi when it comes to class discussions and always try to start a pity party. Detect vs Conceal has always been 23m apart give or take when SW and SE invests on Fade and Inner sight. problem with most SW is "I don't need max fade" also the same people who complain Detect vs conceal is broken af. you need to adjust your build and there is no 1 build that fits against all classes.

SW has:

  • Damage passive
  • 55% Acc/ch acc buff
  • 50% debuff across defensive stats

This means SW classes don't need to compensate most of the time and can easily use 1 set of weapon for every class since they have buffs to cover Eva and CH Eva and external buffs such as ME,PU buffs always applies to them the same way it does to other classes, but this doesn't mean SW will always get everything their way this is why "good players" find different ways to survive against SW, that is why you still need to get weapon sets to overcompensate and prevent that from happening.

Against Tanks: 

-5500 CV + 51% ch reduction + SW natural ch reduction, -26% Void + SW's Natural Void reduction + Unique Ancient Void Pierce + Skill stone, this will put any tanks defensive stat low enough for you to pick them once their buff is on CD. 1 v 1 it all boils down to players skill difference.

Assassin Role:

Like 95% of SW in this game is an eye sore, I keep seeing them yoloing in the frontlines and try to get atleast 1 person before they die, SW is an Assassin not a suicide bomber. There are other ways like cutting people off or picking "out of position ME/PU/SE"' it always depends on the flow and the balance of the battle, You guys most of the time are on Zerg and I still see you complain in here and discord about imbalances speak volumes of your skill level as a player.

2 hours ago, Daddy said:

The sws have had the short end of the stick for awhile

The reason why most SW have had the short end of the stick for awhile now is because most of them suck as a player, no need to be polite about this one, everyone knows it. we only have a couple of good SW players around, most of the good SW I know is either inactive or already left SB. Even Larissa, not the chick, the new guy who mains SW is better than most average SW who are playing for months or more.

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1 hour ago, Beau said:

Class is only as good as the user. 

I can think of numerous ways how an SW can easily pick up a kill, and it can potentially kill any class easily at the current patch.


Most of the SW sounds like a broken sad boi when it comes to class discussions and always try to start a pity party. Detect vs Conceal has always been 23m apart give or take when SW and SE invests on Fade and Inner sight. problem with most SW is "I don't need max fade" also the same people who complain Detect vs conceal is broken af. you need to adjust your build and there is no 1 build that fits against all classes.

I don't know if it's because they "don't need to max fade" or conceal.  The reasons I've been hearing is due to the detection numbers on Kumari making it pointless to invest in concealment.  So they say.  

SW has:

  • Damage passive
  • 55% Acc/ch acc buff
  • 50% debuff across defensive stats

This means SW classes don't need to compensate most of the time and can easily use 1 set of weapon for every class since they have buffs to cover Eva and CH Eva and external buffs such as ME,PU buffs always applies to them the same way it does to other classes, but this doesn't mean SW will always get everything their way this is why "good players" find different ways to survive against SW, that is why you still need to get weapon sets to overcompensate and prevent that from happening.

Against Tanks: 

-5500 CV (Where are you getting this?  ) + 51% ch reduction (I can see where you're getting this, the Lime sim and the Skill database spreadsheet are both wrong.  Just verified this again in game.  It's not 51%.  Apparently there are other errors on the skill database spreadsheet that are off as well.) + SW natural ch reduction, -26% Void + SW's Natural Void reduction + Unique Ancient Void Pierce + Skill stone, this will put any tanks defensive stat low enough for you to pick them once their buff is on CD. 1 v 1 it all boils down to players skill difference.
I assume what you regard as natural reductions as the pierces built in our gear?

Nuke the CV values on ME and PU then I can see reducing the CV debuff.

 

Questions/comments in red.  More questions to come after I put down some other tasks

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Mmm no plenty of good sws changed classes at the current cap.  Its very restrictive especially if they need to farm TT. Their is little room to move between passive conceal, smoke screen, dmg. Wheras before on aeria sw had some good room to choose what they want. Currently most as builds are almost identical. 
 

With calculation sw is one of the weaker dps. These debuffs were made because the gear was made weird and didn’t coordinate with other peoples stats and in pvp you can’t always do a rotation and the debuffs are split. . Without the debuffs sw can’t win any high gear vs high gear battles. Everyone is pretty weak on cd defensive wise so that’s not a great argument for me. I’m not talking about the 23m I’m talking about how detect vs conceal was reaching into the high 100s to 200 near the end. Medic destroys any conceal build, it was very common 44-54. 
 

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9 minutes ago, Daddy said:

Mmm no plenty of good sws changed classes at the current cap.  Its very restrictive especially if they need to farm TT. Their is little room to move between passive conceal, smoke screen, dmg. Wheras before on aeria sw had some good room to choose what they want. Currently most as builds are almost identical. 
 

With calculation sw is one of the weaker dps. These debuffs were made because the gear was made weird and didn’t coordinate with other peoples stats and in pvp you can’t always do a rotation and the debuffs are split. . Without the debuffs sw can’t win any high gear vs high gear battles. Everyone is pretty weak on cd defensive wise so that’s not a great argument for me. I’m not talking about the 23m I’m talking about how detect vs conceal was reaching into the high 100s to 200 near the end. Medic destroys any conceal build, it was very common 44-54. 
 

Uyy!  Don't get me started with the party detect letting SWs seeing other cloaked SWs...

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This is where element of surprise plays a huge role, SW will always have preemptive strike that puts it on an advantage againts other classes, SW CD on debuffs is not that high and will always be ready for another round if you sit for a while on invisibility. And yeah ofcourse SW's main selling point is their debuff I can only think of a few SW who will go after a kill without their debuffs lmfao. ME's detect buff has been removed and people wont be sitting in cocoons all the time. If you take it account all the total debuff value in gears, skillstone, skills and put it on any class that isnt tank you will end up with almost a naked arkana.

What I want to point out is SW is no where weak as described in their drama.

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1 hour ago, Beau said:

Class is only as good as the user. 

I can think of numerous ways how an SW can easily pick up a kill, and it can potentially kill any class easily at the current patch.

I'd like to see you get on a SW and show us how to kill using 1 gear set maxing your concealment, and not get killed.

Most of the SW sounds like a broken sad boi when it comes to class discussions and always try to start a pity party. Detect vs Conceal has always been 23m apart give or take when SW and SE invests on Fade and Inner sight. problem with most SW is "I don't need max fade" also the same people who complain Detect vs conceal is broken af. you need to adjust your build and there is no 1 build that fits against all classes.

SWs aren't investing in conceal because it takes away from their DPS, the SE or any other class can easily with their detect see a SW without putting much investment into it. Like I said if a SW invested in concealment it would reduce their DPS to the point that they couldn't kill players. If you look at the skills of the ME, SE, and WH that have detect they also get increased move speed, the SW is just conceal with no other benefit. So, for them investing in detect comes with an added bonus of move speed and move speed can be pretty OP when facing off against a slower opponent. Don't even bring up the contortionist skill for the SW because nobody in their right mind adds that many non-dps skills with 1 skill focus in their skill tree.

But here's how the detect plays out if SW's max their conceal and other max their detect.

ME + PU detect = 85
SW maxed conceal out of Mech no ghost walk = 66
SW maxed conceal in ghost walk = 76
SW Max conceal in mech = 74

So, for every player will always see a SW with maxed conceal if the ME and PU have detect and then you add personal detects to the SE and WH and the SW can't conceal themselves worth a damn.

But the SW doesn't use max conceal so every player just needs a slight amount of skill pts in detect and the SW conceal is pretty much a waste and only good in DGs to get past mobs. But go ahead and make your case that SW's can be really good with max concealment while they cripple their DPS for it.

 

SW has:

  • Damage passive
  • 55% Acc/ch acc buff
  • 50% debuff across defensive stats

These acc/ch-acc buffs are again too high and I keep saying it and I say that every player are too high in their acc/ch-acc buffs on any class. Once you go back to level 54 skill trees for the SW the Acc/ch-acc buffs goes to passive for acc and passive damage is gone. Passives at level 54 was HP, SP, Concealment, and Acc.

This means SW classes don't need to compensate most of the time and can easily use 1 set of weapon for every class since they have buffs to cover Eva and CH Eva and external buffs such as ME,PU buffs always applies to them the same way it does to other classes, but this doesn't mean SW will always get everything their way this is why "good players" find different ways to survive against SW, that is why you still need to get weapon sets to overcompensate and prevent that from happening.

Actually, well ya those who are using 1 gear for every class are only attacking players who are unbuffed and hiding out till those buffs are gone. The DE and ME however walks around buffed 100% of the time with the number of buffs that they have. The only time a SW shows it's face is to kill a ME or player who broke off from the group. However, for best results I don't have 1 gear for pvp because 1 gear makes me weak in protection and the other gear is weak in atks when faced off against certain opponents.

I have a ch-acc set and a crit set.

the ch-acc set is good for SE's, PU's, and SW's. But this set doesn't do jack against WH's, DE's, CB's, and tanky ME's.

The crit set is good for WH's, DE's, CB's, PU's and Tanky ME's. It is only good on unbuffed SE's and SW's. However, even with the crit set it doesn't do much if anythingagainst the WH's, DE's, CB's, and ME's when buffed right rendering only useful when buffs are down. These players can take on any buffed SW if they so choose with a gear set specifically for them.


Against Tanks: 

-5500 CV + 51% ch reduction + SW natural ch reduction, -26% Void + SW's Natural Void reduction + Unique Ancient Void Pierce + Skill stone, this will put any tanks defensive stat low enough for you to pick them once their buff is on CD. 1 v 1 it all boils down to players skill difference.

Good you realized this was wrong. Though these stats don't do jack against fully buffed players and the ME, DE, and WH have the longest buff times in the game.

Assassin Role:

Like 95% of SW in this game is an eye sore, I keep seeing them yoloing in the frontlines and try to get atleast 1 person before they die, SW is an Assassin not a suicide bomber. There are other ways like cutting people off or picking "out of position ME/PU/SE"' it always depends on the flow and the balance of the battle, You guys most of the time are on Zerg and I still see you complain in here and discord about imbalances speak volumes of your skill level as a player.

Yes, the SW is an Assassin class, but the ME is the class that is on the other side of the front line. How do you expect an assassin class to assassin a player? Are you expecting them to KS players or wait for them to cross the front line before attacking them? The SW is supposed to cross the front line to pick off the ME or other players on the other side of the front line because the ME will just keep healing players and preventing their deaths if they aren't killed. It would be stupid of a ME to cross the front line, so the SW has to yolo to the other side hoping to pick off that player in the back helping the front line. We just often can't get there if the SE who will invest in detect so that they can get their really fast move speeds along with it. It's not like the SW can get fast move speeds with their concealment.

The reason why most SW have had the short end of the stick for awhile now is because most of them suck as a player, no need to be polite about this one, everyone knows it. we only have a couple of good SW players around, most of the good SW I know is either inactive or already left SB. Even Larissa, not the chick, the new guy who mains SW is better than most average SW who are playing for months or more.

Come on show us how the SW works. I've taken down every SW while they are buffed with ease when we are on opposing teams. But this thread is also about the coming skill tree changes and how the SW will get a huge nerf should they neglect several of the issues that was there during the level 54 cap not the current state of the skill tree. Concealment at 54 is crap, atks at 54 are crap, and buffs at 54 are crap. So, as a reminder go look back at the level 54 skill trees and stop talking about the current one that is also crap.  

 

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SWs were actually pretty strong at 54 cap it's 59 cap they were crap in. My take is looking at SW in a 1v1 perspective they're probably the strongest class in the game but that isn't true for mass pvp where they struggle to get anything done like most melee classes. Only way to really play SW in mass pvp without mass feeding is to just play a more support dps/cc role, stay further back protect medics or be a CC bot and just spam aoe disables/stuns and get out.

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9 minutes ago, Bikini said:

SWs were actually pretty strong at 54 cap it's 59 cap they were crap in. My take is looking at SW in a 1v1 perspective they're probably the strongest class in the game but that isn't true for mass pvp where they struggle to get anything done like most melee classes.  Can't argue against this. Only way to really play SW in mass pvp without mass feeding is to just play a more support dps/cc role, stay further back protect medics or be a CC bot and just spam aoe disables/stuns and get out.  Yep.  This is what I've been doing lately.  Sneak in, AoE stun/disable, and GET THE FUCK OUT!!!  "CHANSU!!!"

 

Comments in red.

Edited by Norleras
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9 minutes ago, Bikini said:

SWs were actually pretty strong at 54 cap it's 59 cap they were crap in. My take is looking at SW in a 1v1 perspective they're probably the strongest class in the game but that isn't true for mass pvp where they struggle to get anything done like most melee classes. Only way to really play SW in mass pvp without mass feeding is to just play a more support dps/cc role, stay further back protect medics or be a CC bot and just spam aoe disables/stuns and get out.

Which isn't supposed to be the role of the SW class. They are supposed to be able to get to the other side atk and get out. Most of the time they get there and die making the SW class useless.

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"If" ME "sacrificed" points for that detect and only if "ME and PU" are present and not everyone is SE nor a good one for that matter. You cant just instantly assume SW sucks and ME or PU are  always around to put detect buff, if that's the case you will automativally know when not to engage and when to engage, it will also depends on how you play it. If you dont invest a bit in fade you know everyone will be able to detect you if there happens to be a PU around so you need to min-max.

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Well, sneaking in to AoE stun/disable is fun to do if it adds value to the situation.  Equally amusing to scram with both EA and Ghost Walk to see a bullets, shockwaves, multiple pulls, and MEs healing me all at once.  Imagining opponents go "GET THAT LUNA!!  GET THAT ASS BACK OVER HERE!!  NOOOOOO!!!!" if escape is successful.

 

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4 minutes ago, Beau said:

"If" ME "sacrificed" points for that detect and only if "ME and PU" are present and not everyone is SE nor a good one for that matter. You cant just instantly assume SW sucks and ME or PU are around to put detect buff, if that's the case you will automativally know when not to engage and when to engage, it will also depends on how you play it.

Well, you are assuming that the SW can do all that you say it can without issues and you are wrong. And in the level 54 cap ME's, PU's, SE's, and WH's used detect skills to one degree or another often maxing them out.

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3 minutes ago, Beau said:

It is basic decision making every good player do, if you say you cant do atleast that then sucks to be you i guess.

Well, please enlighten the SW players how we should be playing an Assassin class without being assassins? Unless you say that we can be assassins and then show us what that looks like?

I don't even know why I am bothering to discuss this with you when you don't play let alone play using the SW class to even know what the hell you are even talking about saying that it's the player who just sucks not the class.

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I played alot againts good SW and struggled alot before I get to the point where Im currently am.

The only thing I want to point out is that SW doesnt suck in any possible way and If the reset happens and SW get nerfed heavily I will be one of the first players to stand up and make a thread about it.

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31 minutes ago, Beau said:

I played alot againts good SW and struggled alot before I get to the point where Im currently am.

The only thing I want to point out is that SW doesnt suck in any possible way and If the reset happens and SW get nerfed heavily I will be one of the first players to stand up and make a thread about it.

Which is why I made the thread now to hopefully prevent the need to make more changes to skills later. From what I know there are a lot of players that spew off anti SW rhetoric and how the class needs to be nerfed. The Lvl 54 cap skill tree has several flaws in it that should be addressed. 

Discussing current skill tree is pretty moot point because this skill tree is being destroyed as skills will all revert to what they were back at lvl 54 cap. Though my only issue with the current skill tree with the SW is the lack of decent ch-eva/eva buffs amounts due to every player and their mother having ch-acc/acc buffs in some natural use of an attack or defense buffs with them. Discussing any aspect of this skill tree when it's not going to be used is pointless.

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5 minutes ago, Archangel said:

i can't read it anymore It's always about sw sw sw. It's damn it waiting for what will come. and stop kindergarten and personal attacks. -___-

Well, you didn't need to comment here and to you what is a personal attack? I don't recall calling anybody names and telling people that they are wrong is not a personal attack, it's just saying that they are wrong. If you can't accept being told you are wrong, then you are acting like a snow flake. Players just point out where each other are wrong and not calling people names, unlike another certain somebody would be doing right now if they were allowed on the forum. 

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