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Hey guys,

 

i wanted to discuss about the current meta in pvp since everyone which go tw and gvg rn is using a movementspeed pet + cpl and bard buffs and you get chased down by ppl with 150%+ movementspeed. Whats the matter of removing battle mounts if your pet becomes a battlemount. I have a movementspeed pet and i reach around 100% or abit more without cpl and bard buffs, but its still really annoying to get chased down by full buffed ppl with a movementspeed pet. I mean i have a movementspeed pet and tbh im just lazy to log in my alt and ask my cpl for buffs to have the same movementspeed like the others but is that really how it should be? Logging alts to stack movementspeed so you can chase everything down. You cant even escape with a mount because classes without cast animation will just poke you dead while youre on your mount, since the players reach the same movementspeed stats as if they would use a mount. I know jordan you want to see a proof that ppl really abusing movementspeed in pvp right now but why dont you go in tw with a icognito account and see it yourself... players who actually abuse the pets will probably hate this post anyways. tell me your opinion guys :)

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well tbh the main reason battle mounts will never see the light of day is due to classes that morph themselves access their skills (druid/ares) or morph cc's like conju worm or those morph t's. tbh when i've done tw's the people that aren't playing the capping game and are actually fighting other players tend to use either the +10 elemental res or 7% dmg reduction on their fused 25% atk pet

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On 6/2/2021 at 12:57 AM, warbeast667 said:

well tbh the main reason battle mounts will never see the light of day is due to classes that morph themselves access their skills (druid/ares) or morph cc's like conju worm or those morph t's. tbh when i've done tw's the people that aren't playing the capping game and are actually fighting other players tend to use either the +10 elemental res or 7% dmg reduction on their fused 25% atk pet

warbeast the major part of your guild (if your name is Warbeast ingame too) uses this pets. The majority of Onfire uses this pets. The majority of Stardust, Soulbreaker use this pets. Ofc some ppl use also the warboots but no normal player can reach without buffs or anything over 150 movementspeed and run around like sonic with range classes to kite everyone down. This pet gives you infinit engage and infinit disengage unless 5 ppl are attacking and ccing you. In a 1v1 someone with this pet and full buffs and a good pvp class like Archele, Conji, anhi or what ever will allways win. You can just tank the cc with a shield hope you can run away proc guitar and run back to your opponent which just used all his stuff to kill you. Yea its possible to slow ppl with items and skills but lets be real if you have 200 movementspeed and you get slowed by maybe 30% or what ever thru items or a skill it wont matter. Ppl can still disengage and engage you again and use the 75 awa guitar which procs btw more often than the lv 100 one @Jordanyou should look at that (atleast while running and jumping away it procs way more than the 100 one) 

And about the polymorph shit. If that would be the only reason for removing bms then jordan should also remove the alpaca transformation stone, other transformation stones which transforms you into something else to avoid that conjurer gets countered by it. And ofc the lv 110 trial trophy which transforms you into a tree while attacking.

Also the classes which transforms themself as reason doesnt really count you know eden player. Mecha ares transforms himself too and in main server it was a must to have a mecha in team. Druid doesnt deal the insane aoe dmg mecha does and would be just useless and not meta thats all. we have enough classes which cant be used in pvp and also some classes cant even be used in pve like rakshasa because there are allways better options. When did you see last time a good and solid Dragon emporer? when did you EVER see a rakshasa, when did you see last time a aoj? If bms would still be available  ppl still play classes that can transform like mecha unless theyre bad and if druid becomes bad because everyone with a BM could beat it then it would simply become a class which none will ever touch again like those i mentioned. 

 

2 days ago i went TW. I tested my movementspeed pet with bard buffs and cpl buffs. I have the movementspeed achievements btw too and the cert in too. Remember used warboots i saw that in his buff list thats ok war boost dont last for ever. The others of your guild chased me while having a movementspeed pet + buffs,  accross the map. Thats not possible with a 25% pet. You cant outrun/kite someone with  150 movementspeed + 10% if i get attacked so 160% ,without a movementspeed pet. A war boot dont last that long to get chased and poked down across the fking tw map the only solution is that they definately used a pet too, to have the same amount and then just poked down with range skills without cast time. 

Without that pet but with buffs which a player with a alt or a party usually has i reach 110% which should be the normal amount since everyone can get buffed. 

The only reason i use this pet is that it just feels disgusting to play with a 25% pet against a bunch of sonics in tw. I have 25% pets for all classes too but dont see a reason to use it when it just makes me weaker in terms of engaging and disengaging. It would make me stronger in a 1v1 where both players stay where they are or dont use movementspeed pets so the fight is basically fair. But thats not the case, if i want more dmg i use my 25% pets or 15% and 5% dmg dealt but if i want to be able to disengage wait ppls cooldown or heal up to go back in again i definatly go for the movement speed + 7% dmg reduction. lets say you kill someone with your 25% pet in 2 seconds and with movementspeed and more mobility in 4 seconds but in return you play more safe i think everyone would go for that. 

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That's me with dmg delt + guitar + 20% move speed pet.
I don't really need pet for this, i can beat 190% without pet just because i like to do that.
I've started this move speed fight, after March 15th 2020 TW i've started to used that build, with Thunor combo and Draco which give 20% speed already. (Why? because i was solo player so i need speed for easy run, now is much more harder cause everyone have 180-200%)
I had 165% and others 80-95%, so was much easier for me run from players and to player.
What i want to mean, Pets aren't problem, but massive move speed status.
We have:
Meteor 5%
Banquet 5%
Bard buff 12%
Awaken Bard buff 15% (+extra which i'll not use as exemple)
Totem Buff 10%
CPL buff 15%
Archivements 15% (if i'm not wrong)
PoD 10%
Trophy 10%(Incase thunor)
Neck 10%(Draco usefull on all classes)
Set bonus (some cases 5%)
Gale enchant 5%
Some weapons (in my case guitar gives 5%)
Pot 5%
Purified Crystal 5%
Event 5%( not allowed for now i've reported as bug)
Event items (Halloween Candy 5%)
and much more stuff, just using some exemples.

Problem isn't pets, just that, but they are the easier way to get it.

Here is SS without Thunor combo (10%) and i was using 10% CPL buff.
Classes like BP and LA have move speed on skills, so they looks like ''Sonic''.
KK5d4PD.jpg

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Thats why I proposed a movespeed cap instead of other changes, it directly nerfs trash capping AND this cavalry archer tactic.
Having less movespeed also means Melee classes get to be played more, becuz right now they inherently need high burst/cap dmg just to usable, since their atks almost never connect due to how melee basic atks work with ping, lag, ppl moving an inch away etc.

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Even with 200% speed you guys are locked to 1x1 fights or 2x2 fights.

Jin and Amaris in 2x1 fights vs me they always WIN, i've 1% chance of survive.
Move speed is easy counterable by fear,immobilize, stun or any other CC.
Cap move speed isn't a solution, everyone will have max with no focus, this mean will have much more space to focus on other status, game will have over proc move speed this mean skills that slows you will be unfective.

Abou BM's i really love those but will generate too much lag so i'll say what jordan and all other staff members said: No, cause of lag.

 

On 6/3/2021 at 9:39 AM, naru said:

Also the classes which transforms themself as reason doesnt really count you know eden player. Mecha ares transforms himself too and in main server it was a must to have a mecha in team. Druid doesnt deal the insane aoe dmg mecha does and would be just useless and not meta thats all. we have enough classes which cant be used in pvp and also some classes cant even be used in pve like rakshasa because there are allways better options. When did you see last time a good and solid Dragon emporer? when did you EVER see a rakshasa, when did you see last time a aoj? If bms would still be available  ppl still play classes that can transform like mecha unless theyre bad and if druid becomes bad because everyone with a BM could beat it then it would simply become a class which none will ever touch again like those i mentioned. 

This isn't bad argue, its terrible, jordan has focused on balances and turned many classes into playable, with time and hard work i think soon those classes will have space.
Also DE or Druid are super good people just noob and just want to play with usual classes.
New rebalance turned some classes into more active, Like riffliter, just Jin played with this class, and no one else before.

Move speed isn't a problem but how people react to move speed problem its, try to play with duo or small group, look to Mark having his pocket healer , he became almost imortal, same as Jin + Amaris with Reaver and assassin, or any other player with good knowledge.
Imma solo player and jordan literaly killed this way to play with balances, which is good making 1 player less effective than before.

So to finish this argue, acuse pet as problem or even Move speed isn't a good argue, problem is the way you're playing, tbh, i think is about winning some fights and not making a better game. 
That's all.

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20 hours ago, infecttado said:

So to finish this argue, acuse pet as problem or even Move speed isn't a good argue, problem is the way you're playing, tbh, i think is about winning some fights and not making a better game. 
That's all.

The thing is you can have good gear and all that other shit and if you lock someone in cc and the person survives it with shield, they will just run away and start jumping with the lv 75 guitar and heal up just to turn back on you and thats not how it should be in my opinion. Saying that cc is the solution vs movementspeed is not a good argue because the block rng can still save your ass  most of the time. Not only block the hardcore players also use dmg immunity potions while in cc + shield swap. 

items to reduce the movementspeed are just not enough same with skills with high movementspeed it doesnt matter they will allways escape after they survived the cc. 

The fact that the lv 75 guitar nearly allways procs after 2-3 jumps is totally unbalanced too. I mean the movementspeed is just a problem while being chased or if someone disengages after you used basically everything on him/her. The other problem is the lv 75 guitar. IF  he would atleast remove one of those that would be already enough idm if the enemy player runs away like a chicken. The problem is that they come back after healing up and having all the cc immunity on them AND thats annoying af. 

 

I know that the jumps count as "attacks" or "casts" but if it would be possible that the guitars only proc with skills and not with jumps that would balance the 1v1s abit in my opinion. Running away and jumping around without 100-200 movementspeed is annoying too but ppl can atleast catch up unless your class has a movementspeed steriod to escape or you use warboots but thats fair then, because everyone can buy warboots and if you play a class which dont have movementspeed buffs in the moment youre chasing someone thats the fault of the player then. 

 

The pet on the other hand is a item you have to wait for until its available and then buy it for gold which is easy to get in this server or for real money. As i said, its like a prime/alpha battlemount +40% movementspeed. 

 

summary : Lv 75 awa guitar + movementspeed = total cancer

Lv 75 awa guitar without movementspeed = cancer

movementspeed without lv 75 awa guitar = just annoying

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12 hours ago, warbeast667 said:

i wish i had this rng instead of 2-3 minutes of jumping for a guitar proc

sometimes i do but... RNG SUCKS, i play as bard  and even hitting my guitar procs xD

About this threat, isn't Movementspeed pet anymore, is about gameplay style from 2014.
Guitar has been the same for this entire gamelife, move speed  is just bonus, i remember human mages like iRed doing that against me, with racial skill 40% speed + other stuff he was like 3 times faster.
Its easy to counter, you just need to get how to do with ur favorite class.
tip: having same speed or use smoke bombs so people can't catch u.
Against Conjurer helps alot.
Againt Lethal/Anni not much, high change of getting x4 dmg.

@naru U need change ur playstyle , like i needed to do many times.
Adpt urself to the server not server to urself.

Many ppl do that and that's how game works, i agree is annoying but u can do it too then go ahead.

 

On 6/10/2021 at 10:29 AM, naru said:

summary : Lv 75 awa guitar + movementspeed = total cancer

Lv 75 awa guitar without movementspeed = cancer

movementspeed without lv 75 awa guitar = just annoying

Sorry this means u don't know how to pvp VS guitar and speed, just that.

i did it for long time , then Mark started to play as Anni and LA, done my gamestyle died.
Jin and Amaris catch me up.
Remember just follow and skill spam.
Yerico just use dots and CC then catch me.

Now i use smoke bombs xD.

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Third party opinion here since I saw my name mentioned a few times. I don't really see move spd as an issue at all. As infecttado said, there are ways around it. It's annoying, but it's not invincible. You just have to understand how to play against it, as was said already. The thing I DO see as an issue in PvP is this: 

1 hour ago, infecttado said:

Now i use smoke bombs xD.

I really dislike smoke bombs in PvP. Not only do they strongly benefit a playstyle like hit & run (not that there's anything wrong with this playstyle if that's what you like to do), but they completely invalidate classes that are given natural stealth like Assassin, and enable many classes to get away with some pretty crazy BS. I can run around an entire TW/GvG stealthed as an Anni, which isn't supposed to have stealth, and cap crystals as if I were some kind of ranged Assassin with CC. I'll admit that I also heavily abuse smoke bombs in PvP, but despite that I still think they should be either nerfed or removed from PvP completely. They still have uses in PvE so it won't really kill the racial. I think they're way worse than movement speed, engineer potions, all of that.

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There are so many issues when balancing PvP as a whole tbh.
If we nerf hit and run, then cc becomes too strong, 
if we nerf cc, healing becomes too strong,
if we nerf healing, hit and run becomes strong since ppl ill resort to guitar and healers become unplayable in PvP.

And thats not even counting the intricacies of which classes need to have dmg in PvP to be viable and which ones dont need high dmg at all (Conju/Reaver are too strong as catchers, and yes, I abuse Reaver as well).
Currently movespeed cheesing strat makes solo PvP annoying but does nothing to groups, I think thats the main issue here.

Can we focus on the particular facet that solo PvPing just sucks right now, because literally everyone on this thread is almost a solo PvPer, and all the issues being argued I think stems from the fact that solo PvP is just not feeling particularly rewarding?

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20 hours ago, SmolShibe said:

There are so many issues when balancing PvP as a whole tbh.
If we nerf hit and run, then cc becomes too strong, 
if we nerf cc, healing becomes too strong,
if we nerf healing, hit and run becomes strong since ppl ill resort to guitar and healers become unplayable in PvP.

And thats not even counting the intricacies of which classes need to have dmg in PvP to be viable and which ones dont need high dmg at all (Conju/Reaver are too strong as catchers, and yes, I abuse Reaver as well).
Currently movespeed cheesing strat makes solo PvP annoying but does nothing to groups, I think thats the main issue here.

Can we focus on the particular facet that solo PvPing just sucks right now, because literally everyone on this thread is almost a solo PvPer, and all the issues being argued I think stems from the fact that solo PvP is just not feeling particularly rewarding?

I partly agree with this. healing for example got nerfed in 3v3 im not sure if it also nerfed in tw and gvg. Even the heal skills of some classes like Conjurer for example are weaker and that feels nice tbh. The most annoying part of movementspeed is the fking guitar shit. IF it would be possible to make the guitar only proc on skills and not jumps (ik that jumps count as skill and atk) then idc about the fking movementspeed. because everyone who can escape will have to keep running until theyre dead or until the enemy stops chasing. They cant jump around and turn on you back while the chaser who just used all his cc have cooldowns. 

 

Nerf movementspeed and the guitar is fine since you can still catch up somehow or nerf the guitar. Jordan could make the guitar like the combo buffs of bard and blade dancer. "If X buff of lifewhorshipper is on the player the guitar have a 10% chance to heal the player by 10% Hp each second" for example. 

a 1v1 should be about who has the better gear and can use the class right and not about who will escape the cc rotation first run away with 1 billion movementspeed,  jump proc guitar and turn on the other guy. Or who has more state removal, smokebombs or frozen in time capsules. 

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