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Hello, Over the server's life we have seen guilds come and go. For an EE server to have a healthy life, there is a necessity for PvE and PvP. Currently, Classic's PvE health seems to be at an OK place, it could be better. For PvP, the health has been non-existent since fall of last year. I'm writing this thread with the intention of bringing the currently playing players back into PvP, to bring old players back to the game and potentially bringing new players from the recently closed down Aeria servers. While I have not been playing the game much for the last few months, I do occasionally log on and see what's going on. PvP is being more or less used as a way to farm gold or ECs, whether it be through ranking, GvG bags, salary, etc. There isn't any issue with this, it just shows that there has been no actual PvP for a long time. Guild vs. Guild Changes I will preface the changes for GvG system with a message from Jordan: If people are in agreement over a new system, changes will occur. Changes however will be left to be determined either through collective feedback and decision or by the development team as seen fit; there will not be any issues in regards to development because some of the changes are already in place through other systems from the Awaken server. Currently, GvG is a 50 versus 50 PvP with five crystals to cap and monsters that spawn every minute after death, and through other means like gathering crystals. Before GvG completely died in regards to activity, it was more or less a cap war between 10-20 players on each side. There was very minimal PvP, and it had a huge emphasis on crystal capping. From what I have seen in videos, and what I have been told by current players, the Awaken server falls victim to this same issue. My proposed change would be an overhaul to the entire system, that way the new system would take the emphasis away from capping crystals and avoiding each other and put it back on actually fighting, which is why it was developed in the first place. Player Count Instead of a 50 versus 50, the maximum capacity would be reduced to 30 for each side. This change in capacity would prevent guilds from becoming a huge conglomeration of other smaller guilds, if it could even occur again. I've heard in the past from players that they prefer smaller numbers, because it forces people to learn to play with what they have and teach themselves to be better with their group of friends or clique. This change would encourage this behavior. Crystals Crystals would be reduced from 5 to 3. Passive point gain from crystals would also be reduced when leading with crystals. Crystal's levels would also be increased to the current level cap. The majority of points currently in GvG are distributed from the passive point gain from retaining an advantage in crystals. The points should be awarded through killing each other, while also rewarding players from having an advantage through crystals. Having less crystals to worry about also increases the need for strategy, because you won't be able to just brute force crystals to win. The increased level of crystals is to reduce the incoming damage from players and monsters. Mob Spawning, Suicide Bombing, Attraction Bombing System This would more or less be the same as before. I think adjustments would be necessary, but it would have to be played out through the first few GvGs to see how it works. Possible adjustments would be increasing mob spawns, mob damage to players (not crystals), and other additional adjustments. Timing GvG's time should also be changed. Currently, the majority of the player base is from Europe. Shifting the times of GvG is a must. Even if the original player base were to return, shifting the times 2 hours back for each of them would still fall in line with proper times. I'm sure most players if not all would be okay with this change. Map From what I've been told, the map that is ideal for meeting these requirements has already been used in the Awaken Server for normal class territory war. I'm unsure of this and how the map actually looks/operated because I didn't play the awaken server. But here is a picture of the general idea of where crystals would be, spawn locations, etc. I've marked it up a bit with a general idea of where I think things should go, this would be ultimately left up to Jordan for balance purposes with feedback from the community. Please give your legitimate feedback about these proposed changes. I'm sure only legitimate concerns will be addressed, people posting just to make annoyances will just be ignored.

SenorBernd Im begging stop derailing every post to complain you dont even log in. your character is never online, you don't participate in anything in-game (or I would know about it, ask anybody I'm nosy as fuck) and you never give constructive criticism that is relevant to the post at hand or to classic in general. Im so sick of you showing up on every post to slather your whining all over it like a child finding the mayo jar unscrewed when some of us are genuinely trying to get feedback from players current and inactive to appeal to them more and create an enjoyable experience. I cant remember the last time your input on classic forums was any level of insightful or helpful and at this point I would really hope by now youd find something else to do than troll forums for a game you probably dont even have the most recent patch downloaded for. do us all a favor and please shut up already anyway on topic the gvg changes should help a lot if they are able to be incorporated and i think this topic should be locked if the unhelpful discussion continues

& both pls stackable up to 255 . Change Ancient Jewel Box it's NT - while the Replicubes not. Same for the Ancient Spanner, there a few still NT.

I'm positive there are enough forums stalkers to warrant answers and ideas. I would really love to hear from whoever is out there ❤️ I just want to know what would give you reason, or motivation to want to log on and play on Classic server. I like that there is still a small community and of course game populations die over time but compared to last year this population is pretty abysmal. I personally don't like the system on for example Shiyatsu, basically because of what Jordan said on another thread. Having everything handed to you immediately creates burnout and then there is no content left for you to do and then you're bored waiting for whatever is next. However, I think that creating a medium between what's there now and what competing servers have (much higher accessibility to items) is necessary to ever bring back a community. Lets be honest, this is technically the better server (more stability, better character customization, the opportunity for actual functional custom content) To me, I think that making stones more accessible to people is what's most important to having people play here again. I think the most complaints on the forums a year ago were over how stones were hoarded/unavailable and that the current systems of farming weren't viable to be able to afford them. We are also so reliant on getting them off of crystal altar, and while that system worked at the beginning I feel like it soon became too inconvenient and drove players to not want to play anymore. That's totally understandable when its easy to fort things exactly how you want them on Awakened and Shiyatsu, yet struggling to have your stats look how you want to on here. I guess that's it for me. I think that getting stones to be accessible in a new system would make people much more willing to play this server again. I think that by doing this and still keeping dungeons without class drop for items would make PvE remain entertaining, while also letting people experiment with new armors, classes and builds that they couldn't before. It will also help people play more competitively in PvP. I see that on Shiyatsu it is easy to gear, and that is what has kept people staying there for months. However, there is still a burnout there because the PvE drop rate is so easy. I'd hope that a system like this would keep players entertained in both PvE and PvP aspects. Please share your thoughts and ideas if you can. I know Jordan is not actively looking for any changes right now but maybe in the future this thread could be used as reference to solutions. I hope that Classic can become an active server again someday ! -Jake

Lv 9- is a few minutes Other Lvs is 2 months @Herakles can say me if I'm wrong

I understand your point, but my point throughout the post was there generally isn't room for a LW and an Adju because of how solid and locked in the top 3 healers are, and there's not much of a reason to run a LW for the 4th slot (if even running a 4th healer) when you can run an Adju, since the meta is so debuff/CC heavy. Tbh I don't know if it really needs much (though it does need something). If the meta shifted to PDPS, I think LW/ED would be much stronger. Currently the meta is stacking extreme amounts of debuffs, CC and res drops for MDPS to nuke (most parties are 2-3 AEs + maybe a mecha for DPS). It's like -50 to 70 fire res, -30-50 lightning res in 1-2 seconds if you're being focused, and that isn't really an exaggeration. If I were to suggest buffs for Life Worshipper, it would be to change some of the buffs to better fit the meta via something like damage reduction, and improve upon its synergies with ED. Song of Light: Increases all allies within 50 meters P-CRIT Rate +5%. Crit rate is honestly pretty useless as a buff. The role of PDPS in PvP atm is CC and cappers, and with the stats we have now, they'll all cap crit rate on their own easily. I would change this to either -5% DMG taken or party-wide debuff removal similar to Shielder (which might push it too close to the other current supports I suppose), or if anything +10 elemental resistances to act as a little band-aid against res drop stacking. Song of Life: Additionally recovers HP of your party members within 40 meters +2136 for 15 seconds. Effectively useless to cast after giving the party the HP buff. You'll probably do it anyway as a filler, but it doesn't feel good to use. This could be changed to something like a 5% HP per second heal, like half of what the awakened guitars do. If that's too strong on it's own in your opinion, you could lock it behind the Suite Concert KP that doubles the healing for Song of Life. Melody of Protection (holy skill): ... While "Poets Armor" is active you will receive M-DMG Taken -1176 pts and DEF +10572. M-DMG Taken from this at level 120 is less than a third of a trophy proc. Would like to see it increased a bit. Doesn't have to match a trophy since it's effectively a permanent buff, but maybe 2k would be nice and feel more impactful. I don't think I would make the same change to the P-DMG variant (the other holy skill "Sleep is for the Weak") because I believe PDPS is much more affected by flat damage reduction than MDPS. After that, I would probably build on the synergy it has with Elegant Dancer. Maybe a bit personal bias from me, but I love love love the whole idea behind two classes synergizing together through skills. Sadly both classes are weak on their own, and the effects increased by them being together typically don't warrant it over other classes (we've tried). I would like to see them at least worth being considered. Combining both toggles giving -X% DMG taken instead of the P-CRIT Rate and M-CRIT Rate. I guess side change for Elegant Dancer, I think Dance Force when combined with LW's Forceful Rhythm should give M-ATK% instead of P-ATK% since LW gives P-ATK% as well. It would help running both of them be more viable in both PDPS and MDPS comps. Final notes, overall I don't think the class needs too many changes. It's not weak, it just doesn't fit the meta currently. It would benefit from some kind of -X% DMG taken for the party (or -X% M-DMG taken at least), and the synergies with ED can be improved on to increase viability for both. As said in my first post here, I think Life Worshipper is underrated and can still function in PvP, and people do still play it from time to time. Again, in a PDPS meta, the value it currently brings is much stronger and this thread probably wouldn't even exist. That just isn't where we're at atm. The main thing I would like to see is the replacement of stats that aren't as useful with the amount of stats we currently get (like the crit rate buffs) for more important stats, and the regen changed to a %HP regen to actually be worth using, even if it's only changed to that through the KP. P.S. Sorry for really long post, I didn't expect it to be this long. >_> I just wanted to explain my thought process behind each suggestion made. I want to state that I don't expect these changes to happen just because I suggested them. If we really want to complain about a class though, it should be something that has NEVER been good in any form of content, like Rakshasa. Rework Rakshasa to something closer towards a PDPS version of the current AE and PDPS might actually have a place outside of capping. Different story for a different time though.

At the end of the day none of the PvE arguements event matter. Even if you buff LW to be better than the others whether it be in healing or in debuff removal or what ever. All it will do is knock another class out (Replace) and then we'd be having the same conversation about that class. Only say the top 5% of players actually select classes to use in PvE and then just follow suite. Not trying to discredit any of your statements cause because I mean your probably right, LW isn't as good as an Adju or a TM. But pretty much everything said in the original post wont change anything you said. You'd still pick Adju over LW and you still would pick TM over LW. The only way that would change is if you gave LW -resistance debuffs and then like I mentioned above, the same arguement would apply "Why pick TM is LW does more -resistance". I've had this conversation with one of the better healer players in the server before who made all these points or similar points in a ticket about healing classes back when all the GK nerfs came in. And as I trust them as I've known them since I was a player (They even healed my party in GVG), I let them join me on a test environment so they had all the resources needed to be "fully geared" on every healer class and then let her see for herself that if you gear a class to the same degree as the "meta" classes. Then there is not really any difference between x class and y class other than preferance and some slight "preferable" utility. Then after all the testing she had nothing really to suggest other than people really need to just try more classes and druid would be a playable healer without its animation delays. Please note the above paragraph is specific to healing classes (In particular, Adju, LW, TM, Druid, GK, Paladin). Although Holy Sage is a healing class you'd never really play it for the healing aspect so it was not included if I remember correctly. As for the PVP footnote. I would add that I'd likely pick HS over LW due to its Anti-CC. But depending on what I'm doing depends on if I would pick TM or LW. As TM is good for more stand your ground sort of instances where as LW is better for more move and attack instances. So if a TW is very cap oriented LW every day, same with a GVG. If the TW or GVG is very evenly matched and you need to stand your ground. Then TM every day. As for BP I'm not sure why that was brought up as BP would be a DPS classes and not a support / healer. Eitherway you look at it, it should always be better to run a party with 3 unique supports rather than before where you had 2 GK's + x class or 2 Adju's + y class. Although I bet people still do...

So does adjudicator's Light of Truth. What Cure doesn't have is KP that gives it more healing so overall each skill of Life Worshipper should heal more than a cure. Just like Light of Truth. Yes but how much more utillity does the class provide with its heals? Battle Hymn at level 100 grants the party 11.5k P-ATK while healing them too. The primary use of a Bard on Eden atleast was as a buffer support not a healer, even before I reworked every class if you said you where building a healing Life Worshipper people would call you stupid. Now it's quite capable of healing as for the most part it has a rotation of skills to use, yes maybe it wouldn't be your primary party healer but it's not useless either. Yes because not everything has to be the exact same. And quite honestly you could pair it up with pretty much any other healing class in the game and have a decent amount of debuff removal coverage. Especially if you use the new Abyss set that gives Battle Hymn debuff removal. Yes but if it's buffs where so good that it wasn't out classed then if we didn't nerf the healing then the class would be broken. You can't be the best buffer in the world and still a good healer. It gets DMG reduction from its buffs. But again if you give it too much DMG reduction to the point where it matches block then again like what's it guna suck at? A lot of this seems more to do with it's not a primary healer like something such as Adjudicator or Glacier Knight. However, I've saw many instances especially in PvP where people will run a Life Worshipper as their secondary healer. Yes maybe something like a Holy Sage is more preferable because of its Anti-CC and stuff but you can't just have every class in the game be identical asside from maybe the weapon they use or the effect the skill plays. Ever considered that it's a bug and not something intentional? Eitherway thanks for letting me know. --- Atleast for PvP. Anyone who says Life Worshipper isn't a good class especially paired with the Requiem Set needs to head to Sakura and test more classes. Because I can assure you in that regard you are wrong. As for PvE... well anyone with Totem Master unlocked can heal most things and the things that aren't that simple (DS, HoO, Abyss) well someone with a decently built healer can heal on most classes fine and again Totem Master wins again due to just having to press a button and putt down -Res totems.

I like LW enough, yes some things are a pity, that it is not tanky enough, or that it is not debuff, but it is only a support, not a pure heal. I like to use it in PvP, or against Karen, and with the 115 set, I tried to buff it a bit with the Requiem set. (This is purely my opinion as a player, but the LW is fine as it is) Also, I manage to heal correctly, I have the time to put all the buffs + the Holy skill during the skills cd (while I cast instant)