Clayton

Grand Fantasia~

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Ok hear me out. 

With both of the Eden Eternal servers dying slowly, could we bring the thought of trying a Grand Fantasia Classic server back into the mix for a new VGN game?

The discord that was made to show support for the game showed that the game could possibly be a hit with over 1500 people joining.

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7 hours ago, Clayton said:

Ok hear me out. 

With both of the Eden Eternal servers dying slowly, could we bring the thought of trying a Grand Fantasia Classic server back into the mix for a new VGN game?

The discord that was made to show support for the game showed that the game could possibly be a hit with over 1500 people joining.

Both eden servers aren't dying though?

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On 8/19/2020 at 9:20 AM, Bash said:

Both eden servers aren't dying though?

By players mind its, for me as exemple its dying time by time, Awaken lost the essence of eden eternal and classic is Aeria 2020 server so yes for mostly its.

Numbers of players also doesn't really mean server is dying awaken never had too many people like Classic did for some time, and people quit and back every month.

I understand the staff being against this players mind cause you guys have the exacly numbers to say ''we're or we'rent'' since its yours job.

3 weeks ago i've done with my account, giving everything back to players who gave me and gave all my gold and gathering items to them too, since is better than stuck on dead account.
I got many memories and over than 2gb of ScreenShots during this time i was here, sadly is the end of VGN for me :/ but that's it.
5 years was amazing time thank you for that.
Especial Thanks to Jordan who helped me with some sugestions like NCTW revival.

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bump for bash. 

Not sure about the eden thing but I'm just another player awaiting you guys to launch GF classic.. our discord made it to 1500-2000 in a matter of 2 weekends .. and thats barely spreading the word.. im sure the server will attain much, much more.  So how about it @Bash .. Are you feeling better and able to take it on or assign someone?

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13 hours ago, HonorabIe said:

bump for bash. 

Not sure about the eden thing but I'm just another player awaiting you guys to launch GF classic.. our discord made it to 1500-2000 in a matter of 2 weekends .. and thats barely spreading the word.. im sure the server will attain much, much more.  So how about it @Bash .. Are you feeling better and able to take it on or assign someone?

Yes but does that Discord server want a server from us? Just like Classic EE, everyone wanted it until it was there.

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1 hour ago, Bash said:

Yes but does that Discord server want a server from us? Just like Classic EE, everyone wanted it until it was there.

The Players are to not keen on the origin if the server. We're in it for a properly maintained server that actually listens to the community and not focus on pockets. I'm sure you've heard several times how the Grand Fantasia Siwa project failed. Because they painted the image of a classic server before all the bull, exactly how it was before and hundreds of thousands signed up.. ofc it was a US server too but the moment it was released and everyone noticed it was just another server.. literally just another place to go start over.. everything the same.. just another cow to.milk.. and so it died.. because what was promised wasn't delivered.. that's why everyone has been spamming VGN and waiting because of the name you guys have in the industry.. players just want balance and GMs who works with the community 

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As far as I remember, that discord was made with the purporse to show you guys how many people wanted a VGN Grand Fantasia Server, I joined only to show my support for that reason. I'm really looking forward to see you guys work in this project. The way you guys worked on EE its the only reason I'm waiting as long as it takes to see this GF thing come true.

Saludos.

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On 9/17/2020 at 6:01 AM, Bash said:

Yes but does that Discord server want a server from us? Just like Classic EE, everyone wanted it until it was there.

the server name is precisely named Grand Fantasia VGN, and it gathered over 1000 members in less than 3 weeks from various places (portuguese/spanish/english speaking people), so yeah, it was made for you guys to see the amount of support that you'd get from ONLY announcing it

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I joined the discord server recently (one month ago) and so others have done, this means that still today there are new players who believe and want a new game server

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It's not all rainbows and unicorns here though....

I will look into this project again, no promises.

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9 hours ago, Bash said:

It's not all rainbows and unicorns here though....

I will look into this project again, no promises.

Based on our last conversation about this we figured things we tough on your side..

Just wanted to.show you guys that this is going to be worth the hassle 

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Tbh i think the best idea VGN could do right now would be to:

1. Drop EE Classic and have Jordan focus on Awaken since let's be real EE Classic is dwindling down to death quickly

(2. Relocate EE Classics resources to another game like GF. Then again EE Classics only resource is Jordan afaik)

 

Overall i don't really get why VGN doesn't get more GMs/GSs in to help with stuff. Maybe yall are just too damaged by the previous shitshow that most of the GSs at least in EE were so you can't build trust in new people anymore. 

With the current setup of staff i don't think taking another game in would make any sense since it's doomed to be only half-loved by the staff, if at all. You should go back to doing what you love and do it with passion instead of doing what people >think< you would do good. 

If you start a GF Server now and don't give it all your love it doesn't matter if there are 3 or 2000 people that want it. It will fail 100% if there is no passion behind it.

I do think that if you keep not recruiting new staff and keep making weird/bad decisions like some on EE Classic, the whole network won't have a future at all, no matter what games you pick and no matter how famous/wanted they are. 

Also no front towards Bash himself but in the past it showed that making him the "main lead" of a game is no good idea at all(Sure, if there are RL/Personal problems it's all fine, but i don't think that it's good to let things like that lead to closing whole games where people cashed in and spent tons of time on). Rather let him stay head GM/Network Manager/Whatever his work is right now and pick someone completely new while keep Jordan and Vivi working on SB and EE.

 

So yeah to wrap it up and a TL;DR:

Go back to only Awa EE, expand the Staff a bit and only then think about doing a new game. Also decision-making needs to be improved by a lot.

 

Remindisclaimer: This is just my opinion and i don't want to personally hurt anyone. It's just what i think would work out the best. I'm currently not actively playing any VGN game because of (not only but also)the reasons i mentioned above. And let's be real there are way better games to play overall like FFXIV and WoW where you actually know what you're getting for your money.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, SenorBernd said:

You're entitled to your opinion but generally speaking its opinions like this that kill passion for projects for me to be honest. Classic was fully loved by me just as Awaken has been to the point that I was working 16 hours 7 days a week for almost the entire first few months of Classics release. I took 1 day off during the entire time and that wasn't by choice either.

I also have stated before that I don't get anything extra out of working on Classic as its a 100% passion project by me. Yes the network has benefited from it but I personally haven't (If anything working this much caused me to have headaches all day and I was living off pain mediciation 3-4 times a day). So I don't know how anyone can say its half loved at all. Yes the last month or so it's been a little slower, I can admit that. However, I've made huge changes in my real life that needed to take priority.

I also don't know what you're talking about poor decisions. To give some context so people don't have to find out from rumours or from searching older threads.

  • You posed a full list of MBA changes to myself privately and I overviewed them tweaked them a little eitherway and the confimed them with you to see your thoughts which you confimed was all good changes. Then you basically stopped playing the game maybe a week after and now suddenly have huge problems with decision making?
  • Then you called me out or atleast called out the change made to the Katana BP to cost 80 Warstones instead of 10 which was a complete un-fact checked change to begin with as the change only increased it by 5 Warstones... Just like I did with a couple of other Awakens too.

Like you've have plenty of opportunities to come to me and discuss these changes but not once have you.

I know I'm not perfect but I have enough self respect to say I don't think I've done that bad of a job.

 

However, my personal rant over I will state some facts for you to answer some of the things you asked for.

We've hired many staff in the past for Eden and most the time the staff aren't the ones helping with content but people who pitch ideas to me or to a friend to pass to me is usually the ones driving things along. Like for the most part Classic was all me. But awaken for example, Haven of Oblivion wasn't designed by me, Dragonside Ridge the mechanics where designed by me but the models and assets where all picked by others and none of the quest maps Viroona/Fallmyst to name a few where all designed by @Lilith and @Nanami who yeh have both been staff at some point but where hired because of the work they did to help me (rehired in Lilith's case) and even after departing still help. So it's not like there isn't people giving help but development work still must be done by me.

You might comment on how slow things roll out. But don't forget people sat there on Aerias server for 6 months between updates doing fuck all too and they had a full team of 100's developing their game over at X-Legend but here its just me myself and I. Look at any other servers that pops up too, riddled with bugs and issues. Unplanned wipes, closures for months etc. Whats the worse that happened on Classic? During beta the fame was capped a bit too low and 10v10 once had its timer doubled for a single week.

As for hiring other GM's it wouldn't matter anyway. It wouldn't speed anything up as we don't have the exact tools and processes that X-Legend does. So we'd end up just stepping on each others toes. Yeh you could argue if we are going to open another game a new GM could be nice but at the end of the day how can we trust this GM? Took me years to build my trust here. This position comes with a certain level of trust, it's not something that you can turn up for one day and get the job. However, I do agree with you about myself not being involved in Grand Fantasia. Unless both Edens are closed I personally will not be involved in this project. Obviously I will be around to help whoever runs this project as at this point I know X-Legend games as if I made them. But I want to have a life and working 16 hours a day 7 days a week was not good for my physical or mental health as I've come to realise with working less the past month or so.

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First of all i'd like to mention that i posted this in here and not on EE forums for a reason, because i simply don't think you @Jordan or EE is really "at fault" for anything.

 

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

You're entitled to your opinion but generally speaking its opinions like this that kill passion for projects for me to be honest. Classic was fully loved by me just as Awaken has been to the point that I was working 16 hours 7 days a week for almost the entire first few months of Classics release. I took 1 day off during the entire time and that wasn't by choice either.

I also have stated before that I don't get anything extra out of working on Classic as its a 100% passion project by me. Yes the network has benefited from it but I personally haven't (If anything working this much caused me to have headaches all day and I was living off pain mediciation 3-4 times a day). So I don't know how anyone can say its half loved at all. Yes the last month or so it's been a little slower, I can admit that. However, I've made huge changes in my real life that needed to take priority.

I know I'm not perfect but I have enough self respect to say I don't think I've done that bad of a job.

I'm very sure that people(obviously myslef included) have huge respect for you and the work you have done and are still doing for both EE servers. 

I never said that EE or SB were developed half-loved. I said it's almost guaranted that taking in >a new project< >right now< would almost 100% be only halfe-loved >because< of the low staff-member-count with all of them being very busy already. My wording was a little too harsh on that one i have to admit and not obviously enough directed at the possible new game. Sorry.

Yes, you can indeed be proud of what you reached especially with Awa server since it has like 8x more content than the original game ever had. 

 

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

We've hired many staff in the past for Eden and most the time the staff aren't the ones helping with content but people who pitch ideas to me or to a friend to pass to me is usually the ones driving things along. [...] So it's not like there isn't people giving help but development work still must be done by me.

Yes, i know this very well. Your last sentence is pretty much what it's all baout in the end tho. If there are good ideas or there is help given to you by players/outsiders you still have to realize/implement it all by yourself in the end.

 

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

You might comment on how slow things roll out. But don't forget people sat there on Aerias server for 6 months between updates doing fuck all too and they had a full team of 100's developing their game over at X-Legend but here its just me myself and I. Look at any other servers that pops up too, riddled with bugs and issues. Unplanned wipes, closures for months etc. Whats the worse that happened on Classic? During beta the fame was capped a bit too low and 10v10 once had its timer doubled for a single week.

This also connects to the point above. Let me just say tho, i didn't talk about the pace of content at all. Of course things will take longer when you are literally (developing), programming and implementing everything alone. That is why i said it'd be good for Vendetta to simply have more staff.

 

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

As for hiring other GM's it wouldn't matter anyway. It wouldn't speed anything up as we don't have the exact tools and processes that X-Legend does. So we'd end up just stepping on each others toes.

I know there is way more for you to do than "just sitting there and think about and programming content". Ofc i don't know how your team is built currently but from what the average player sees, Karah is doing Tickets(and in most cases just redirecting them to you if they are a little "deeper" concerning EE), you are developing, Herakles is doing Events/Playtesting(?)/Monitoring Discord+Forum and Thy(if Thy still exists lol) is a cool dude that randomly pops up from time to time while nobody really knows what he really does :D.

I can see and understand your point of stepping each others toes while developing and since i'm a complete tech-noob i will just trust you with that one. 

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

Yeh you could argue if we are going to open another game a new GM could be nice but at the end of the day how can we trust this GM? Took me years to build my trust here. This position comes with a certain level of trust, it's not something that you can turn up for one day and get the job.

I mean in the real world that is exactly how jobs work tho. You apply and eventually get the job. I do understand that you're probably taking a way higher risk with letting people into your inside since your business is likely to get shit on by the community if people learn deeper insides but if you never take a risk you never take a win i guess. If what the guy says is true there are 2000+ people eagerly waiting for a GF server and probably willing to pay, which shows how much trust people put into you guys. Of course i get that in a very small business like Vendetta is(how much staff do you have? <10 people?) trust and giving higher roles to the people you already know might be the super safe go-to option. And sure it's also a huge time effort to look for new people that could fit into your team but i do think it could be very worth for both you and the community in the end.

 

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

However, I do agree with you about myself not being involved in Grand Fantasia. Unless both Edens are closed I personally will not be involved in this project. Obviously I will be around to help whoever runs this project as at this point I know X-Legend games as if I made them. But I want to have a life and working 16 hours a day 7 days a week was not good for my physical or mental health as I've come to realise with working less the past month or so.

Thank you. I think nobody that has a slighty functional brain would want you to actively work on 3 games. That said, i still do think that GF on Vendetta would only have a real chance with brand new staff(Gave my thoughts about Bash before, Vivi i think is busy enough with SB/Tech stuff and i think we both pretty muchh said everything about yourself)

 

So in the end yes, i shot some fire but i really think you took it the wrong way a bit. I was mainly talking about the possible GF Server and VGN in general. I will also not go in any further about decision-making on EE Classic since i know it'd just end in a back-and-forth argument-throwing. Let me just say 2 things tho: 1. If you had listened to us at the very beginning and brought back the good old %-TW, everyone would be happy now :P:D(that's not a real on-topic argument tho, please don't even react to this lol since all sides points were very clear about this). 2. For me personally i didn't exactly quit because of decision-making or people or whatever but simply because other(in my opinion generally) better games had updates and i rather spend my time where i have the most fun(again this is not because of Vendetta but because of the game itself). I know nobody fucking cares for this but i wan't it to be said. 

I can just say that i wish all the best for VGN and especially you @Jordan personally. And again nothing of what i said was meant against anyone on a personal level. I have huge respect for your work(and that is exactly why i took the time to write all this. You know how long it takes to get these walls of text and quotes together). And who knows, likely in the future i come back to do more than just putting up guild NPCs and giving my stuff for free to best boi Udo(<3).

 

Keep spelling errors i'm tired af and my keyboard is slowly dieing oof i tried proof-reading them all out 

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4 minutes ago, SenorBernd said:

I mean in the real world that is exactly how jobs work tho. You apply and eventually get the job. I do understand that you're probably taking a way higher risk with letting people into your inside since your business is likely to get shit on by the community if people learn deeper insides but if you never take a risk you never take a win i guess.

Well its more of a point of someone who is hired can just grab the files and bail. It's happened in the past. Thats just the first trust issue that comes to mind.

 

6 minutes ago, SenorBernd said:

 

Thanks for the kind words in general though. I took it the wrong way for sure but if you look over some of these forum posts you probebly understand why I always see the negative before the positive. Means a lot a positive things reading your positive words for me and sorry if I got a little heated 😅

I'm sure if Bash did run it if anything did come up again I might be able to step in rather than close.

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I pretty much agree , that there is just no capacity to open another game on VGN. 

Bash had things to do in his RL and had health issues as he said.

Jordan is busy with both EE Servers and working his Ass off. 16 hours each day for 7 days a week, is just too much to stay healthy. 

Vivi is busy with RL aswell and with the SB Server.

I can understand that hiring  a new Staffmember for a GF Server is not easy at all, since as Jordan already said, it needs a lot of time to build enough trust.

I think all of the current Staffmembers deserve a fantastic break, to have some free time for themselves, family, friends.

I mean when i remember back, when Twin Saga and Nostale were running, next to SB and EE Awaken, i already saw, it was a lot more work for the staff. Lot of people asked for updates, content, made tons of suggestions for all 4 games. I cant and i dont even wanna imagine, how stressful and painful this time must have been for the Staff. Having not a minute to breath.

I think this is a question, that can only be answered by the entire Staff. Bash, Vivi, Jordan, if all of you are feeling healthy enough and if you are ready to sacrifice more of your private time, to run another game.

Personally i loved GF too and played it for many years, but i also know we are all just humans with Limits and i dont wanna see the staffmembers getting sick in RL because they sacrifice their health to run games,

 

Just my 2 cents

 

BoxBox

 

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5 hours ago, SenorBernd said:

Overall i don't really get why VGN doesn't get more GMs/GSs in to help with stuff. Maybe yall are just too damaged by the previous shitshow that most of the GSs at least in EE were so you can't build trust in new people anymore. 

The population of both servers have been a little far too spread since classic released and despite people begging for classic they become too "bored" to stay and support it, now off to other servers or games in general. So finding new helpers while the GMs are extra busy running 3 games + their IRL lives/jobs while avoiding corona is probably a lot harder right now for them, even more so after said "shitshows" of ex-GS as you call them. Not everyone can be trusted to do their job, nor do some people actually care enough to do their job and as a result more than half are hired to leech whatever they can off being a GS. But despite that, there have been a lot of hard work and effort in the past from some these "shitshows" and they've helped Jordan quite a bit so I don't think it's right to refer to all the ex-staff as such and not even appreciate the work they've done for this server. But then again that's my opinion. 

I have nothing more to say, enjoy your day/night. 😼

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11 hours ago, BoxBox said:

I pretty much agree , that there is just no capacity to open another game on VGN. 

Bash had things to do in his RL and had health issues as he said.

Jordan is busy with both EE Servers and working his Ass off. 16 hours each day for 7 days a week, is just too much to stay healthy. 

Vivi is busy with RL aswell and with the SB Server.

I can understand that hiring  a new Staffmember for a GF Server is not easy at all, since as Jordan already said, it needs a lot of time to build enough trust.

I think all of the current Staffmembers deserve a fantastic break, to have some free time for themselves, family, friends.

I mean when i remember back, when Twin Saga and Nostale were running, next to SB and EE Awaken, i already saw, it was a lot more work for the staff. Lot of people asked for updates, content, made tons of suggestions for all 4 games. I cant and i dont even wanna imagine, how stressful and painful this time must have been for the Staff. Having not a minute to breath.

I think this is a question, that can only be answered by the entire Staff. Bash, Vivi, Jordan, if all of you are feeling healthy enough and if you are ready to sacrifice more of your private time, to run another game.

Personally i loved GF too and played it for many years, but i also know we are all just humans with Limits and i dont wanna see the staffmembers getting sick in RL because they sacrifice their health to run games,

 

Just my 2 cents

 

BoxBox

 

 

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If Grand Fantasia is to be released on VGN it would need a lot of attention from myself yes. Would I develop it? I don't know... I would probably help launch it and find myself a CM who would operate the community and come up with ideas for content. I have no intention to launch a game half assed I can assure you all that, I've got many of projects I could launch but choose not too for the sake of the network.

Please don't assume past events are in the way or that we will mindlessly open something without enough thought towards it. Remember it took 9 months of asking for Classic for us to finally give in, we fought against it for so long because we felt it wouldn't be a success and despite what everyone said and disagreed against us here we are...

Classic may not be doing well as things stand from a replayability end point but our PVP events are still very active and we just need to ensure we can have more reasons to return to the game than PVP events. We did warn a lot of players that it would end this way and yes I'm sure we've screwed up on delivering parts of it but all in all this is precisely why we stood against the idea for so long. We won't just shut down a game without real reason and we truly believe we can set it back on the right foot.

Players also need to swallow their pride and stop quitting when things get tough (i.e. when a guild starts to dominate). In the entire time I've known Eden Eternal this has been a known problem and it can be seen by the way people flock to a new server each time a new one opens.

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2 hours ago, Bash said:

Please don't assume past events are in the way or that we will mindlessly open something without enough thought towards it. Remember it took 9 months of asking for Classic for us to finally give in, we fought against it for so long because we felt it wouldn't be a success and despite what everyone said and disagreed against us here we are...

So it took 9 months to give in to a classic server but people have been asking for a gf server for almost half a decade... We asked for this even before swia came out :/ it just feels like a slap to the face

Besides Jordan already said that "I don't get anything extra out of working on Classic as its a 100% passion project by me." So obviously there's bias towards opening a classic ee server than a gf server that the community have been asking for ever since twin saga died. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sakura said:

So it took 9 months to give in to a classic server but people have been asking for a gf server for almost half a decade... We asked for this even before swia came out :/ it just feels like a slap to the face

Besides Jordan already said that "I don't get anything extra out of working on Classic as its a 100% passion project by me." So obviously there's bias towards opening a classic ee server than a gf server that the community have been asking for ever since twin saga died. 

 

GF is a complete different game and as Jordan said, EE classic was 100% his own passion thing. Maybe no one has passion to open a GF server, which is absolutely okay, you just cant like every game tho.

So i can understand he opened EE classic instead of a GF server. I myself was asking in 2016 or 17 for a GF Server, even made a poll and lots of people voted for it. But i accept a no, if the Staff isnt ready.

I can understand a lot of people want to have GF back, but honestly guys, give them a break. 

They already do enough to keep 3 games running and RL and Healthiness first! 

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Weeeeeeell here we are again? :D

I always love to read about this topic. Sadly i didnt notice the huge increase of members on the VGN Discord which was intentionally made to show how many players wait patient for a VGN GF server.
There is a huge playerbase which waits for something to happen on the Aeria server for years as well. Aeria simply just refuses do to anything, not the slightest useful balancing, item/ap changes, pve changes - they literally dont show any effort to keep this game alive its just self-funded by whales at this point. It seems like they just wanna drain the last money out of the community until the game dies. 


Even if i already wait for years to happen and i multiple times asked for a VGN server i dont want this server to be rushed or the staff to be overworked, ive never seen a this passionate and competent group of people hosting a private server and i would love to see you keep doing work like this in EE, GF or any other game you are interested in by yourself.

Tbh as EE Classic and EE itself took, also the GF server would need A LOT (like seriously a shit ton) of work to appeal to people. And some needed things also might make some ppl dont wanna play this server. Especially some class nerfes will cause a lot of people crying cuz they cant dominate any pvp/pve content anymore by barely knowing anything about the class or the gamein total (as it sadly always is in MMOs). Additionally the performance issues, scalings, balancing in pve and pvp, removing of some content which just makes the game totally pointless will take time and preparation. The content which could be added to make the game more fun is also a big thing but something which isnt needed rn but i do think about that often, as well as i created multiple lists by myself in the past with things which should/must be adjusted to make the game more active and also interesting for new ppl. 
If you want a overview in total just to check what should be done before thinking about a server just contact me. 

Just to say: Dont rush anything, dont start any server you dont want and I hope some ppl stop annoying you with this topic multiple times a day. You will announce it if the server will happen in the next 10 years (yus old ppl playing GF) and thats totally fine. Most people who urge you to start it wont agree with most needed changes anyway or just want the same feeling as in 2010 which definitely wont happen. These people also never played GF until endgame seriously so they just living in the past.

I hope u guys doing great, EE classic was fun but actually i prefered Awa server but most ppl ik left for the classic sadly.

 

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3 hours ago, Sakura said:

So it took 9 months to give in to a classic server but people have been asking for a gf server for almost half a decade... We asked for this even before swia came out :/ it just feels like a slap to the face

Besides Jordan already said that "I don't get anything extra out of working on Classic as its a 100% passion project by me." So obviously there's bias towards opening a classic ee server than a gf server that the community have been asking for ever since twin saga died.

You can't really compare opening something the same as what we already have that has tons of copy and pastable work to a completely new game really can you. Your also again talking about a game that I enjoy vs a game I've never played. Ofcourse if I where to choose it would be EE every day of the week.

And I mean you answered your own statement.

"100% passion project" and "bias towards opening a classic ee".

We don't owe you a server, we don't have an obligation to open Grand Fantasia. If we do open it, its because we want to and we feel its right to. You guys asking respecfully boosts the arguement to do so but doesn't mean the next game has to be it either.

 

31 minutes ago, inceptionz said:

We appreciate when people ask us for a game servers we really do as it shows that people enjoy our work.

I also agree with you that it needs to be carefully planned and not just rushed.

We do not mind people starting topics as people are doing so as its nice to see that our servers are enjoyed and people want more. So never be afraid to bring up the discussion every now and then!

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3 hours ago, Jordan said:

You can't really compare opening something the same as what we already have that has tons of copy and pastable work to a completely new game really can you. Your also again talking about a game that I enjoy vs a game I've never played. Ofcourse if I where to choose it would be EE every day of the week.

And I mean you answered your own statement.

"100% passion project" and "bias towards opening a classic ee".

We don't owe you a server, we don't have an obligation to open Grand Fantasia. If we do open it, its because we want to and we feel its right to. You guys asking respecfully boosts the arguement to do so but doesn't mean the next game has to be it either.

 

We appreciate when people ask us for a game servers we really do as it shows that people enjoy our work.

I also agree with you that it needs to be carefully planned and not just rushed.

We do not mind people starting topics as people are doing so as its nice to see that our servers are enjoyed and people want more. So never be afraid to bring up the discussion every now and then!

 

No one said you're obligated to open a Grand Fantasia server for the gf community. We thought it would be a good idea for you guys to invest in this because we know that it would be beneficial to Vendetta (If its being run right). There's even a discord that support this happening. Of course people appreciate your time and effort towards Eden. Even if it's causing you to live off of pain medication. As a developer; putting your own interests ahead of the interests of the community is looked down upon, I get that you enjoy EE and whatnot but to the community; it seems as if you're not listening to us and just jumped ahead and opened something that you feel passionate about. That's part of the reason why Twin Saga failed and classic EE is following the same path. You all opened private servers hoping for there to be some sort of take-off and haven't seen the profit from your own endeavors. Once again, you're not obligated to open a grand fantasia server. But it just feels like a slap in the face towards some people who was asking for this for years.

I understand when people said that grand fantasia needs more work than EE but if you as developers don't take that leap of faith and hire more people to help you expand your brand and potentially get some of the stress off of you, Bash and Vivi; you will continue to keep on having the same issues over and over again. Bash and Vivi took a leap of faith when they hired you to become a developer, why can they not do the same for others. It's easier said than done I know but its something that is needed for things to grow. That's just how it works. No one wants to see vendetta fall; we want to help you grow because of how much effort you guys put towards Eden. And we believe that opening a grand fantasia server will aid in that.

 

Please don't take me ranting as me coming for you guys, its just my opinion on how things are going looking from the outside in. I fully agree with you when you said that things like this should not be rushed. I 100% agree with you; hence why people have been patiently waiting. Especially with only 3 game developers currently available. Whether you decide to open a grand fantasia server or not is completely up to you. But again, for some people in the community; it feels as if the developers shot us down after we asked for this for years and did whatever they wanted to do. 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Sakura said:

No one said you're obligated to open a Grand Fantasia server for the gf community.

You say where no obligated but then you say it feels like a slap in the face when we don't open it. Those kinda go hand in hand of you feeling like you deserve a Grand Fantasia server just because there is some form of support behind it. Classic made sense because the work is already done, it has a set path and all we have to do is guide it that way. Theres no need for us to create massive dungeons that take 3 months to make and most the custom cosmetics are already ready to go as it shares the same files with our awaken. I'm not here saying its a breeze in the park but its a very different story running 2 version of the same game with minor differences and running 2 different games.

I'm overworked as it is, I don't just work on games here I have a real life job with real life things going for me and I personally pushed for Classic and I make time for it and when I didn't have real life work to do due to lockdowns and such I was pushing full work weeks into both servers (More than what would be considered a full work week). This was my free time and this was the time I could have been spending working on my self or playing games (Something people definitely didn't appreciate but whatever). So I'm sorry if you think thats me being selfish and not listening but quite honestly it was either "Classic Eden opens or it doesn't" and not "Should we open Grand Fantasia or should we open Classic Eden". Like I said you (the community) do not decide what games get opened and we shouldn't be reflected negatively for that, yes you can point us in the direction you want and give us reason to go that way but if it doesn't make sense for us or we don't have the capacity to do so we're not just going to go looking for someone to force a project and we're not going to put more strain on ourselves. Like whats stopping this so called leap of faith from running away with the files or someone who gives up and just leaves the game in a sitting ditch until its too late. Bash has been running this network for so many years and he's hosted many games, the amount of war stories this man has about being screwed over by even people he'd consider a close friends would suprise you. This isn't as simple as a job interview and are you qualified for the job as the skill to do the job is less important than the trust you need to earn the job (All it takes is 1 cog in the machine to break and everything about it tumbles down).

We are happy with the position we're in now and we don't need people telling us or implying that we have to open projects just because it was suggested. Grand Fantasia has always been a project at the forefront of all server discussions for the very reasons you pointed out. But again, unless we announce it and then cancel it before release, I don't see how you can feel slapped in the face as we've never said yes. To be quite honest its attitudes like this that will actually harm the chances of a game server. As this is one of the biggest stress points of both Scarlet Blade and Classic Eden. Where people begged for it for various reasons and then as soon as something isn't going their way they start acting like we've just punched them in face. People can sound as genuine as they like when suggesting but if history has taught us anything most of what people say is potentially going to fly straight through the window when we do 1 thing wrong and 10 things right.

 

26 minutes ago, Sakura said:

That's part of the reason why Twin Saga failed and classic EE is following the same path. You all opened private servers hoping for there to be some sort of take-off and haven't seen the profit from your own endeavors. Once again, you're not obligated to open a grand fantasia server. But it just feels like a slap in the face towards some people who was asking for this for years.

Twin Saga failed for many reasons and to be quite honest it was getting better before it closed. It went from some days having about 0-4 active users at peak time to almost 100 active users at peak time before it closed. However, as you played it you probebly remember that we encountered a bug that would take far too many resources to fix and even then your looking at a couple of weeks of downtime to fix it properly. On a game that was already struggling that downtime would have killed it and honestly speaking theres not 100% guarantee that it would be fixed. If that crash didn't happen and I had my chance to keep it going I fully believe that game could have had a resurgance and still been alive to this day. I even have asked Bash in the past to maybe reopen this game at some point as I'd love to give it a go along with Aura Kingdom.

As for Classic Eden. Not really sure what you mean about take-off and not profitting? This game was smashing records on a daily basis for the first few months. We had yellow channels during the boss spawn events (something Awaken has never had even when it first opened). That game was booming and was in one of the most successful states Eden's been in for a long time. Yeh lately its calmed down, maybe a bit too much to where its concerning but most of the people who have quit Classic mainly quit due to boredom. You have the sore losers who cant win quit because they're bored of losing and you have the people who rush content so they have every awaken in a week and then they're bored again. The games over 10 years old and theres many newer and more refined versions of the game like Twin Saga and Aura Kingdom that are available. You have very successful mobile games that played in a similar fashion by X-Legend too like Aura Kingdom 2 and Laplace/Tales of Wind. Grand Fantasia will be no different, there will be 1000's of people who are itching to get started but 6 - 8 months later? I promise you there will be at best a quarter of w.e numbers we start with.

I'd also like to suggest that you should really stop comparing Classic to Grand Fantasia as again it puts a negative light on your suggestion. We had 100's of people suggestion Classic, we saw discords with 1000's of people forming when other people where potentially opening a new Eden Classic server but yet what happened? People loved it for the first few months, yeh there was complaints but what active games don't have complaints? Then what happened? Slowly over time the nostalgia declined, people went back to Awaken or back to w.e game they where playing before Classic opened. The games not dead thats for sure. But obviously we're not happy with the current state and the last thing we'd wanna do is open another game to each resources and end in the same boat. You could argue "Well Grand Fantasia wont be like that". But people said the same about Classic yet it happened.

I fully believe the above asside that Grand Fantasia isn't a bad project. But it's something I for one will not be involved with much unless both Eden servers are gone. I would also caution you to instead of trying to state why we've done you wrong and how we should do this and that maybe you should focus on the OP and place your support in the game. Cause from my perspective the way your going now is going to do nothing but harm the chances of a Grand Fantasia server.

 

So TL;DR

You can say we don't owe you anything but you then can act disrespected when we don't give it. It's either one or the other.

We have no reason to need to expand and if we are to expand we do it of our own choice and not because people think we have to.

Getting developers isn't a walk in the park and a CM who points the game in a direction only solves at best 50% of the work.

Twin Saga was a fail to a degree but was turning around. Classic was anything but a fail and only lately is going a bit down hill, mainly due to sore losers and nostalgia drying up.

Stop comparing the process behind Classic and Grand Fantasia as its only harming your point as if we knew how much stress, how much work and how fast the nostalgia will burn out before we opened we likely wouldn't have (This is not me saying I regret it, as I don't. But as mentioned in above responses my health took a massive hit because of Eden Classic).

I don't believe its a bad decision to open Grand Fantasia but I will have no part in it other than the odd help of pointing people the right ways in terms of development so that they don't run into problems later down the line. Unless Eden was gone, then maybe I would take on a new project if Bash where to open something else.

 

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