Venom

Skill Feedback

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Posting this here because thread closed before i had time to write anything,also for people to agree or disagree with it. i like to play all the classes and have a good experience with all of them at end game except the medic.People complaining before testing.

Defender : the reflect is a welcome change and the stun on Armageddon strike was needed ,Reflect duration seems to be a bit long. Ironskin,(idk if u guys checked this}for a while now iron skin duration has been bugged making the timer invisible,sometimes u can see it sometimes not i,probably depends on how close to u they use the buff,same goes for CB guardian shout,i seen CB abuse this by buffing far away an then biking towards u ,knowing u cant see their buff or duration,this is going to be more problematic when guardian now last 30sec. Both ironskin an Guardian shout needs to get checked and  maybe even a visible buff also added(like wh shield,se bubble).

Whipper :After testing more with the given skill resets,i can say the dots are a strong ,an whipper can finally do some damage now, adding back ACC/CH ACC to pulls will be too much for classes like SE ,SW an eva PU, AND eva Medic(if thats still a thing)im not 100% sure if changes were made to pull/stun animations ,but it feels smoother than before.With the increased damage i can say the longer cooldowns ,the lower stun/disable duration and the lower targets affected was the right move.my issue only being the range on Hook an Sinker 2 is very short an feels like a melee skill.Overall i like the changes on WH so far.(i encourage people to test skills before complaining/raging,there are skill resets provided an event boss drops alot)

Sentinel : Its ok thus far,i think skirting disaster needs  a longer duration(se spends the most time vulnerable right now,sw can still fade),25 sec with a 40 sec CD or 30 sec with a 45 sec CD and possibly some additional void like before.Also in badly need of a cleanse or maybe a  decent dot reduction added to skirting disaster(sw has 2 cleanse,cb has 1,de has 1 an medic)Removal of casting time for'Extinction Event' mech skill so SE can actually benefit from using the new subjugate debuff

Shadow Walker : A bit op but in a good place for itself,better than it was before.

Punisher : Needed the damage an defense reduction, seems to be doing similar or even more damage than before, not sure why punishers complaining about the 5 second window on defense cocoon,they have the longest def buff with just 5 sec downtime.the gravity to plasma change in the 2 aoe in mech is good,more ch damage,and the additional dot dmg .Can also do with  a cleanse added to 'in plain sight or mind over body'.

Cyberblade :the longer guardian shout an the suppressor shout range seem really good,somewhat op but  i need  to test more.

Medic : i dont know much about this class besides going Kali an shooting people.

Edited by Venom
Further test on WH
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Although it is nice that SP passive got combined with HP I think all passives should have gotten a 3-5 point reduction to max.  Points for SE Detection and SW Conceil passives should be halved as they are for (SE especially) usefull only against 1 class.

As one who plays SE I can confirm that new skill tree is not too bad.  It is nice we got an Acc buff now but it does feel like it was purposely attached to a skill that is less used by SE. 

I think it is also odd to give us a third debuff that does zero damage, it would have been better to add the effects to Hex instead.  In 1v1 if you try to use all three you either waste the whole duration of a stun on skills that don't hurt your opponent leaving you without enough time to drop their HP to zero. Or you try to use without stunning your opponent first and get stun locked and die.  It could be usefull in mass PVP but 2 skills that did no damage was already a bit cumbersome.   Some may say you don't need all three however hex is the least usefull of the three and is a prerequisite to unlock the other two.

 

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Yeah not getting that new debuff its a waste, limiting the skil points needed for slow helps in getting the acc buff + move speed, you'll be darting around like a pro with that, havent tested the detection yet this patch.

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Suppressor about is a bug we caught. It’s not supposed to be that big lol. Issue is cb uses diameter for some reason and that probably affected how we entered the skill. 
 

for se it was intended to be on a less used skil. And subjugate wasn’t really intended for you to have all 3 maxed. Especiallh with having the new acc debuffs on particle tree they would be a good blend to have with subjugate but I can see why both changes are a little annoying 
 

these are really helpful tho and I will think on how to move forward with some stuff. 
 

ive been working on small guide but keep getting interrupted irl lol I’ll prob release today. 

Edited by Daddy

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I'm going to state this here. You cannot be the hero class and be the class that can easily take every class. If this happens it's basically making your class running around in God mode and breaks the game. Also, you need to consider not just the skills of the opponents you face but also the skills of the players you work with. Sure it would be great to have your opponent at a disadvantage over your skills, but then you have your own team at a disadvantage over the other side. Take for instance the ME, if your ME was built specifically to aid you in pvpl, nerfing that class for the goal of nerfing your opponents ME will just result in a nerf to a player in your own team that could help you. Same with the SW, nerfing that class with the goal of nerfing the opponent SW will result in nerfing your own team. If the SW is needed to kill the ME, if the SW is built so that they can't take out your ME then chances are that your own teams SW isn't going to be built to take out the opposing side's ME. The Changes made and your considering of skills your opponent has also need to be considered the skills of your own team. If you have a player that cannot perform due to breaking their skill tree just so you can kill them easier will result in your own team having a broken skill tree and players could kill them just as easy. So, if you are only looking at the opponent and not realizing that your own team is having the same struggles, then you understand what that class faces.

you should understand that many of the skills you have to risk dps for a hit. Take for example players who want to hit a buffed SW, you can't expect to hit a SW using crit atk, crit rate, ch-atk, or ch-atk% jewels since those increase your attacks. You have to remove those jewels to use Acc or ch-acc. The reason why WH's got a nerf to their acc/ch-acc added to their skills so that they are more forced to do that. The Acc/ch-acc in those skills allowed them to pull and stun everybody without missing and not risk damage output. So, when it comes to debuffs, stuns, attacks, and passives you have to risk one over the other.

Looking at the SW class, I have to choose between higher attacks or higher conceal. Sure higher conceal will keep me from being detected, but I lose my chance at having sufficient damage to kill them. If it was easier to have higher conceal and keep damage high, people would complain about being too OP because nobody can see us and we easily kill them.

The SE class being the SW counter shouldn't be easier to have a detect without risk of damage. Those 3 debuffs kinda like how the SW got the shadow strike split into 2, was for people to make a choice on which to use and when. Having 3 debuffs if you can get away with using only 1 or 2 on one player and have a successful kill, that leaves the 3rd for you to use on the next person since in pvp there will always be another person to attack. Using that 3rd debuff in that way would be helpful because you are probably out of stuns and disables by that time and you need something to help take that opponent down. That is because the person attacking that opponent will be either running out of stuns or disables and the opponent will either still have high protection or the protection will be coming off, but  you want to kill them faster before they start attacking you or finish off the player they are attacking. Back to the detect, if you want to have greater chance of detecting the SW, you should risk losing your DPS. Playing the SW class myself lowering the SE detect skill point use is a bit OP because the people we need to kill need higher damage output so increasing conceal even if it takes less skill points would be a waste and those players become unchecked. Likewise the result would also prevent your own SWs from getting passed the opposing SEs and their ME becomes uncheck and players on that team don't die. 

So, considering the WH class with the removal of the acc/ch-acc and a buff to their attacks was so that they could build an either full acc or ch-acc set or blend the two and have the damage to do so. Putting the acc/ch-acc back into skills will cause those skills to have greater damage and not require the WH consider sacrificing damage. The WH shouldn't be allowed to easily pull or stun every class and putting those back into their skill it would need to be recommended to increase the eva and ch-eva of other players thus making those other players too OP against others. While the WH would benefit from the added acc/ch-acc it is too great to allow them to pull everybody too easily. Players should be allowed to escape just like some players are allowed to take on hits without losing too much HP.

The one skill that seems really off is the DE's reflect skill. You have a DE buff on that for 30 seconds and those who dare touch him will kill themselves and that DE will be free to attack any player without risk of being attacked unless everybody dots them to death. Which would make DoTs the go to attack and the dot reduction the go to ancient jewel.

So, while I don't know every skill that was changed for every character. Understand that the changes made wasn't for your benefit, the opponent's benefit, your own teams benefit, or the benefit of your opponent, it was made to balance out some of the skills that were too OP and skills that were too weak. You nerf one character for your benefit and you weaken the characters that play along side you and to buff a character that plays along side you will result in a buff to a character that is your opponent and you can't be a god player in all fairness.

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Whipper :After testing more with the given skill resets,i can say the dots are a strong ,an whipper can finally do some damage now, adding back ACC/CH ACC to pulls will be too much for classes like SE ,SW an eva PU, AND eva Medic(if thats still a thing)im not 100% sure if changes were made to pull/stun animations ,but it feels smoother than before.With the increased damage i can say the longer cooldowns ,the lower stun/disable duration and the lower targets affected was the right move.my issue only being the range on Hook an Sinker 2 is very short an feels like a melee skill.Overall i like the changes on WH so far.(i encourage people to test skills before complaining/raging,there are skill resets provided an event boss drops alot) @Daddy 

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Yeah I need to adjust hook and sinker II I did a last second change on it and didn’t realize the effect till it went live. But I really appreciate you all seeing the whole picture now. I did a lot of work to do checks and balances. Somethings just needed to go live as I could no longer test myself with a small team. I have already learned a lot of good changes to do to make it much better! Wh dots are super strong so I was a bit alarmed to see everyone in arms about a nerf and not see they have so many new buffs and high damage they don’t need the long durations anymore.

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@Daddy  yea problem is people rushing to conclusions without checking the details or testing,Serah farron  rage quit for no reason, so far its looking like PU is doing more damage than before while still being tanky.but im not sure if its just the result of people using the extra skill points at the moment.Il report back here after i do some more detail test on PU and other classes.

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1 hour ago, Venom said:

@Daddy  yea problem is people rushing to conclusions without checking the details or testing,Serah farron  rage quit for no reason, so far its looking like PU is doing more damage than before while still being tanky.but im not sure if its just the result of people using the extra skill points at the moment.Il report back here after i do some more detail test on PU and other classes.

Anybody rage quitting is them wanting to quit the game in the first place and making these skill changes an excuse. Most people want the easy path to win against everybody and it isn't fair to everybody else.

The DE reflect buff going for 30 seconds is pretty long and then being able to go right into iron skin and other buffs after it is like the SW having two skills it can use one after the other for infinite survival. I would say that the reflect buff should only last maybe 10 to 15 seconds.

 

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yeah. Reflect is very tricky I can provide some insight. I'm adding it to my other post soon but I can say here as well.

 

Reflect:

I tested this skill within 1%~100% values and its honestly such a lackluster skill, specificaly in mass PVP. It's honestly useles anything less than 50% because the defender still takes full Damage and reflects whichever value they put points into, so 60% right now. Any buff will lower how good the reflect value is, max iron skin makes reflect literally useless. In mass pvp there are so many people that can hit you and the damage you reflect will go to seperate targets you will die FAST. A de without iron skin is way squishier than people think.  Any debuff will amplify how effective reflect is, this is why reflect cannot be used at the same time as Frenzy.

There are additional issues I have found with reflect, it actually literally reflects pulls so if a CB or WH pull you they will go to you. In my mind that is actually a really cool consequence to pulls we have desperately been needing but its also a new feature that may not go well with the player base. I need to guage it with Vivi and you all need to see as well. In my mind i think its amazing we finally have a drawback to pulling. If we keep it i will adjust pulls on WH a bit so its not so agressive, im going to change a bit anyways as doing open testing I have noticed how shitty the CD is but it still needs to be higher than before.

Honestly anything less than 50% reflect will be uselss. I have many changes in mind for it but reflect could possibly not make the final cut but I want to see if it can first. Many people view reflect as you should be able to kill them with it in 1v1 while its up, while it is possible and I tested it with toe on like 3 classes, it takes alot of skill and effort to do so. Waiting it out is probably easier lol, yes i know its long. Think of it like the reflects on bosses in dungeons and in worldbosses, we dont go full out when we used to fight them. It required a lot of help to do so. This game has a lot of mass pvp elements and seeing something get really trashed mainly cus  its only seen in the light of 1v1 isnt really helpful. But yes, reflect will be altered so don't worry.

 

A lot of the changes were to help with how mass pvp is conducted.

Edited by Daddy

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I was thinking like venom does. It seems PU deal higher dmg n more tanky now. N also seems like all PU can learn max detection. It means the anti sw class isnt only SE but also PU. PU is more like the adult vers of SE imo. Cant imagine a SE stay in detect cocoon, so SE will have 110 detection, it means they can see SW start from range 110m lol. Even after u all in the outside of that circle u still have 2s duration

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Yeah punisher is very hard to balance actually probably the hardest. Whenever I tried to adjust crit attack in anyway it made it the worst class in the game. Went thru like 7 test stages and still was worried but this is nice to know. Thanks. I can revert the addition to the cocoon. Not sure if I want to nerf it beyond a previous value as it’s a party buff that benefits all classes. May need to add some type of requirement elsewhere to deal with having too many points. 
 

also some people are bugged and haven’t reset to not have extra skill points so that’s giving me inaccurate feedback. 

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I will try to give feedback by 5th since am bit busy....

nit enough duels or mass pvp....So far its good with shorter animations...like insta cast thats buff PU n can rely in skills rather then just 4skills and mech...

Hope i get some testers in Amara n ofc loot more skill resets. 

For now PU is okay....but low on physical but if crit combined high chakra damage can melt squishy classes...

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Havent seen the new PU's skill tree in game, but i have an idea, how bout if u change the skill tree like CB? For example, if a punisher want to have high detection and/ or high def, they need to sacrifice some offensive skills or buffs n vice verca. So if a PU have high attack, they will have low defensive buffs n detection. I was thinking punisher is a glass cannon/nuker n also high attack always have low accuracy n soft def in all games btw.

But this is just my idea hahaha

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why say all pu now stronger ? only good is now overkill with 2.5 sec , 

  they reduced off def coocon the circle is now very low . in teamfights pu not very helpfull

its now more 1vs1 class , in nb dying in 1-2sec in def set :D so pu not really tanky...sw beat me down 2-3 sec in def set

cant handle it without detection buff,  enfeeble now usefuller than before its good vs se , 

pu can still can do most of classes , vs cb u must only wait when buff its over , before patch i can beat cb easy with buffs on...now no chance no dmg ... 

 

https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-fc8249-1572798187.jpg.html

pu cant dps an cb...starting same time boss...full uni ancient .:: pu now no more glass canon :D cb now op

 

same was in event dg  with necros  ( had same dmg ) like pu...  

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Wish I knew how to program more than just the basics in Java, C++, and Fortran F95. I'd like to create a skill simulator where you can place gears in and it shows you your stats and then as you add skill points to skills it shows what the stats of the skills and the stats you gain with your gears. That goes from Gamma gears up to the eta, theta, lota, and Eplison, which also includes accessories. That way new and old players could see what happens to their character with certain gears and what happens to their output in def and damage. Even get jewels and randoms with your final stats. I could imagine it being a lot of work though to do it.

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2 hours ago, Daddy said:

lime made this, its not really circulated

https://limeox.info/app/scarlet/eff_hp/

That's sort of what I was thinking but with more of a visual look what you would see in game. Then I got thinking about being able to have two builds next to each other side by side and then pick an opponent character to build them and match your character next to their character by way of your skill tree to their skill tree and and their gear to your gear. Which would be an outright insane task, though one could do it in game and move everything themselves into a spreed sheet on their own since formulas and stats are given.

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36 minutes ago, GoddessSand said:

That's sort of what I was thinking but with more of a visual look what you would see in game. Then I got thinking about being able to have two builds next to each other side by side and then pick an opponent character to build them and match your character next to their character by way of your skill tree to their skill tree and and their gear to your gear. Which would be an outright insane task, though one could do it in game and move everything themselves into a spreed sheet on their own since formulas and stats are given.

you can copy the easy noob calc i made and put two side by side if you would like.

 

Luna is also making a more indepth calculator at the moment but its taking a bit since its a lot of work.

 

Calc: Scarlet Blade Skill Calculator

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Idk why no class have conceal buff. Medic have detection only. Maybe u guys can make a conceal buff  in medic that only works for sw? All classes have detection buff rn.

N also PU is not the counter class for sw. Its the counter class for tanker. Im fine if they improve more to sentinel just to countwr sw. But for punisher, nah. Bcs start from ASB all i know only SE is the counter class for sw

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