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11 hours ago, SparkOne said:

Swingers stun range 10y while mech stun is 9y …..

if u stun on swingers at max range n use firing squad u cant restun on mech rather have to walk 1m now then use FS >.>

Is it changed or something weird I feel need to be checked mech stun range should be bit higher

Oop just saw. Didn’t change those two at all. Not sure why that happened or if it’s just more noticeable now ?

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2 hours ago, Daddy said:

Oop just saw. Didn’t change those two at all. Not sure why that happened or if it’s just more noticeable now ?

it should be may be something weird happen....but i nvr feel the diffrence untill now when i stun some one on swinger use fs then cant stun...out of range stuck mama save me am dead.....

But to walk extra 1 yrd aftr stun n then use FS xD ...may b by that time also dead

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I was looking into all classes skills and I noticed something: from lvl 59 to 65, most buffs and debuffs get new fancy stats such as crit-void, crit-eva, cleanse, heal. punisher didnt get any of those, add that with the damage passive being nerfed and as a result punishers got a low dps in pvp and a even lower tankness.

what I propose for a general fix not only for punishers but also for other classes is:

undo punisher's damage passive change

add a -DEF effect to penetration

add a buff to defense cocoon that affects only one person, and gives some defensive stat such as ch-resist/def/crit-void/crit-eva

and please undo overkill's animation change.

 

I belive shadow walker's damage needs to be nerfed, they got lots of damage boosts since lvl 59 cap. people cant see them coming because they are invisible, cant tank them because their debuffs are too strong and their buffs got extra damage.

 

 

now related to what @SparkOne said about mech stun, its common when someone lags to move a bit after being stunned. for punishers its really annoying because after u use swiggers and firing squad, our own buff wont let us move foward to keep the target stunned. having a better range on mech stun would help. if you are playing against a punisher even lag benefits you :s

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1 hour ago, DrakkarUlfsark said:

I was looking into all classes skills and I noticed something: from lvl 59 to 65, most buffs and debuffs get new fancy stats such as crit-void, crit-eva, cleanse, heal. punisher didnt get any of those, add that with the damage passive being nerfed and as a result punishers got a low dps in pvp and a even lower tankness.

what I propose for a general fix not only for punishers but also for other classes is:

undo punisher's damage passive change

add a -DEF effect to penetration

add a buff to defense cocoon that affects only one person, and gives some defensive stat such as ch-resist/def/crit-void/crit-eva

and please undo overkill's animation change.

 

I belive shadow walker's damage needs to be nerfed, they got lots of damage boosts since lvl 59 cap. people cant see them coming because they are invisible, cant tank them because their debuffs are too strong and their buffs got extra damage.

Doing all that to improve the PU and nerf the SW will double down on nerfing the SW. The PUs, SEs, MEs, and WHs can see us coming if they so choose, leaving SWs, DEs, and CBs shouldn't be able to see us coming. With the DEs, CBs, MEs, and WHs having high def buffs, nerfing us makes everybody stronger and cannot be killed. PUs aren't supposed to tank SWs. However, I will say that there does needs some improvements on the PU front.

SE's however need a nerf to their movement speed, like big time. They shouldn't be able to travel faster than a 180 bike as that's double the speed of any player and with their slows makes them go 10 to 200 times faster than others. That speed buff should only have them go 150 max or 140 in arkana. Also a nerf to their ch-acc as their Ch-acc reaches past 260% alone gives them closer to 80% ch-acc, which is too high. At most I say they should get 60% or 65% on their own and nerf to the MEs Ch-acc so they can get 75% maybe 78% ch-acc. Currently they can get enough ch-acc to reach 100% meaning they can stun us from a distance run uber fast and kill us while we are buffed and we can't even get close enough to do any damage without getting stunned first. With the SE detect skill, high ch-acc, and the ability to move faster than a bike allows the SE to get close enough for the SW to buff(if they buff too late they are good as dead) once SWs buff they SE just needs to run away for 10 seconds and then start attacking the SWs since SWs buffs are gone. Happens all the time. Having their Ch-acc as high as it is allows them to attack the SW freely and buff or no buff SWs die in seconds.

MEs need a nerf to their party buffs including the ch-acc as that gives everybody too much Ch-acc.Giving players anything above 15% is too high. Also, move a small amount of the ME def party buffs over to the ME self buffs and that reduced ch-acc to the ME self buff as well. 

CBs also need a nerf to their movement speed as they shouldn't be allowed to travel faster than bikes as well. Giving them the same as the SE or less is what I recommend.

SWs buffs are now way too short or way too small. If players maintain their buffs for Ch-acc, then the SWs need a increase in duration of escape artist to 13 seconds and ch-eva so the SW can get 20k which it is currently capped at 19k, Players are getting 270 to 290 ch-acc which is 80~100% ch-acc and that's too high since ch-eva is the SWs only saving grace.  If players have their ch-acc reduced that get them then increasing the duration of escape artist to a bit longer to about 13 seconds would be helpful since everybody has high def buffs that last longer than 15 seconds.
           Just a thought, what about increasing Shadow strike slightly make it 5 pts to use and void slash reduced by the amount shadow strike got increased and make void slash 3 pts to use?

Not sure what else to talk about.

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53 minutes ago, GoddessSand said:

 

SE is SWs direct counter and it finally feels that way if the SE builds for it, so it's in a good spot imo. The match up is in SEs favor but it's not totally 1 sided. SWs still have many ways to get the advantage over SE with either more conceal or starting mech first since mech stun beats every stun SE has.

Edited by Bikini
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2 hours ago, Bikini said:

SE is SWs direct counter and it finally feels that way if the SE builds for it, so it's in a good spot imo. The match up is in SEs favor but it's not totally 1 sided. SWs still have many ways to get the advantage over SE with either more conceal or starting mech first since mech stun beats every stun SE has.

But they don't have to run around with 190 move speed and starting in mech doesn't make up for that as no class can even up there in move speed. With the support and defense of the current ME class maxing out concealment is a joke. I'll come back to this when I see the ME party detect buff changed back to solo buff, but unless that actually happens the SW like the PU are pretty much dead classes. We can't max enough skills to do much unless we get the ME support that we aren't supposed to rely on. Besides you were doing just fine before skill changes so why the need for more against the SW? 

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because SWs can kill most people in one combo, and they always land stun first, so people die to them without even fighting. if you want to make a build to kill shadow walkers you wont be able to kill any other class. even with full ch-acc build my stuns still miss 80% of the time. shadow walkers already have a lot of accuracy and chakra accuracy so they never miss, and now they also ignore crit-void and have a lot of damage boost.

anyway I guess u agree that punisher is a dead class right now. the only utility we have is a cocoon that benefit the rest of our team.

I'm gonna have to say that level 54 and 59 caps were much better balanced than now, there is almost no improvement in the changes made so far. Instead of making complex buffs and skills with a lot of stats yall should try to make it simpler, crit-void/crit-eva/dot-reduc were never meant to be put in classes skills, those have to be built through gears

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2 hours ago, GoddessSand said:

 

If you call maxing out 2 sets for the sole purpose of beatings SWs only to go 50/50 at best against SWs with a single set and rare jewels fine, sure. Not much of a counter if I have to try that hard just to have a chance, not an advantage just a chance. Anyways SE still have to build to counter SW it's not like we gave em a magic button that automatically allows them to stun and kill all SWs.

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44 minutes ago, Bikini said:

If you call maxing out 2 sets for the sole purpose of beatings SWs only to go 50/50 at best against SWs with a single set and rare jewels fine, sure. Not much of a counter if I have to try that hard just to have a chance, not an advantage just a chance. Anyways SE still have to build to counter SW it's not like we gave em a magic button that automatically allows them to stun and kill all SWs.

Did I say 50/50? I don't remember saying 50/50. I do remember stating that getting above 260% ch-acc, which is 70% ch-acc final after SWs buff is getting too high. When they can get 80% final Ch-acc on their own and 100% with ME, that is where I feel it is too much. So, I suggested either reducing the Ch-acc of the ME party buff first and for most. The SE reaching 280% on their own is 90% final ch-acc and thus they should have it reduced down to 260% if the ME buff remains the same or allowed 265~270% if the ME buff gets reduced. Keeping the ME buff where it does in fact create that magic button that automatically allows them to stun when they reach 90~100%, especially when they reach 100%. If there is or isn't a reduction of these  values there still needs to be an increase in the duration of escape artist. I use rare rank 2 jewels on my RG toon and thus feel that these values are being placed to these levels would at least give the SW a chance in pvp and in 1 vs 1. Reason is that in 1 vs 1 the SE tends to wear out the SWs buffs by running away really fast, starting in the mech does help the SW but not when there's a lag between mech to arkana to skill use.

Still the SE's move speed is way too high.

 

1 hour ago, DrakkarUlfsark said:

because SWs can kill most people in one combo, and they always land stun first, so people die to them without even fighting. if you want to make a build to kill shadow walkers you wont be able to kill any other class. even with full ch-acc build my stuns still miss 80% of the time. shadow walkers already have a lot of accuracy and chakra accuracy so they never miss, and now they also ignore crit-void and have a lot of damage boost.

I had advocated for a reduction of the acc/ch-acc of the SW during the last time skills were changed. If the Acc/ch-acc wasn't so damn high players wouldn't need to be highly reliant on void/resistance. Reduce the acc/ch-acc so their max ch-acc is 280% (ch-acc build) and acc to 210%(acc build) and extend the escape artist out to 13 seconds, which is still less time than the buffs other people get, might help balance out the class better. If SWs had to rely more on the Acc/ch-acc their damage would work itself down to reasonable levels.

 

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44 minutes ago, GoddessSand said:


 

Ok but why are you comparing a medic buffed SE to a solo SW? SWs supported by the medic ch eva buff are basically impossible to stun even with 280+ ch acc I have missed all 3 stuns. Oh and I was talking about my own experience fighting SWs before the patch, it was pretty much 50-50 despite me doing everything possible to counter em and SW doing absolutely nothing to counter me.

Edited by Bikini
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Is it possible to cap a player Max stat to certain range like even tho u get medic acc or ch acc buff it stays at 250% max n not exceed watsoever

Same thing goes for Ch eva ….so giving SW 60% chance to survive factor...from being stunned

Also biggest thing to wait would what Lvl 60 Mechs would do ….will they just act a multiplier to current lvl 50 mech dmg or have something new rebalanced skills ….

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38 minutes ago, Bikini said:

Ok but why are you comparing a medic buffed SE to a solo SW? SWs supported by the medic ch eva buff are basically impossible to stun even with 280+ ch acc I have missed all 3 stuns. Oh and I was talking about my own experience fighting SWs before the patch, it was pretty much 50-50 despite me doing everything possible to counter em and SW doing absolutely nothing to counter me.

Most of the time, any player supported by the Medic is more OP than the players who aren't. Should that be the case that all players who have ME support become too difficult to kill? I did say to reduce the ME support buffs then having SE's higher ch-acc to make sense, but having high ME support buffs and high ch-acc makes the SE too OP. The same goes for the ME support buffs for the SW, reducing them for the party keeps players from being too OP to deal with that it doesn't require an ME on the other side. Often if a ME enters a BG, not AK or NB, the side who got the ME is too OP to deal with.

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Break down at the end.

Let me get this straight, the ME will give 20% ch-acc to a party, but only 5% ch-eva to a part. How is a SE with ME Ch-acc buff not more OP than a SW with a Ch-eva buff? It's like saying we are giving the SE up to 100% ch-acc with ME but only subtract 5% for the SWs with a ME. Values are way too in favor of the SE if you ask me, from their detect, move speed, and ch-acc/acc buffs. But didn't the SE also get some debuffs?

Just to be clear, the SW can already get 293% ch-acc on their own with rare jewels, adding another 20% on top of that will give them 313% ch-acc. With the SW getting 19.1k Ch-eva on their own with another 500 ch-eva, will give them 19.6K ch-eva. To put this in terms of Ch-acc that is -196% ch-acc. If a player has 313% ch-acc to start
they will end up with 117% ch-acc which is over kill and they can switch out a gear piece or two and still have enough ch-acc to stun. If a player has 290%(SE with ME buff) they end up with 94% Ch-acc with only minor 7% chance of missing a stun or disable. Now If that SW doesn't have a ME to buff them while the SE does, the results will look like 290%-193%= 97% ch-acc.

So, currently the SE without ME support of 270% ch-acc(Not including a title but does include randoms, gears, and jewels) against a buffed SW with 19.1k ch-eva, the SE will have a resulting 79% ch-acc in the end. To be fair let's show the SW with ME ch-eva buff and SE without ME ch-acc buff, 270%-196%= 74% That is only a difference of 5%. That hardly phases the Ch-acc of the SE. So, when I state that the ME buffs combined with the SE buffs is too much, I really mean it.

The ME buffs need to be lowered or the SE buffs need to be lowered. If the means of allowing the ME to greatly increase the Ch-acc of every player while giving a drop in the hat of help to the SWs ch-eva there is a problem in my opinion. But once the SWs ch-eva buff is gone after 10 seconds we end up with 11.1k ch-eva which is nothing against anything above 211% ch-acc, that is easily obtained by any player really without much effort.

Which I will state that the SE needs about 3% ch-acc reduction of Ch-acc and the ME could use 5 to 10% reduction of ch-acc while keeping the same Ch-eva increase. The other option would be to keep everything as is and increase the ME ch-eva buff to 1.5k so it at least can take off 15% of the opposing teams ME ch-acc buff instead of 5%.

Break down -
Ch-acc SE with ME buffed vs Ch-eva SW with ME buffed
            290% ch-acc - 196% Ch-eva = 94% ch-acc final for SE  (6% chance of missing)

Ch-acc SE with ME buff vs Ch-eva SW solo
            290% ch-acc - 191 ch-eva =99% ch-acc for the SE (1% chance of missing it might as well be 100%)

Ch-acc SE solo vs ch-eva SW solo
            270% ch-acc - 191% = 79% ch-acc for the SE

Ch-acc SE solo vs ch-eva SW with ME buff
            270% ch-acc - 196% = 74% ch-acc for the SE

SW ch-acc with ME buff vs SW solo
            313% - 191%= 122% (Over kill)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recommend - this is with arkana's using rare rank 2 jewels of ch-acc/ch-eva and not including titles
SE max ch-acc of 265%, ME support ch-acc of +15%, ME support of Ch-eva - 1k, SW max ch-acc - 276%,
Will look like this results
SE vs SW
SE ch-acc solo vs SW ch-eva solo
                265% - 191% = 74% ch-acc SE results

SE w/ME ch-acc buff vs SW solo
               280% - 191% = 89% ch-acc SE results

SE w/ME ch-acc buff vs SW w/ME ch-eva buff
               280% - 201% = 80% ch-acc SE results

SE solo vs SW w/ME ch-eva buff
               265% - 201% = 64% ch-acc SE results
SW vs SW
SW ch-acc solo vs SW ch-eva solo
              276% - 191% = 85%

SW ch-acc w/ME buff vs SW ch-eva w/ME buff
              291% - 201% = 90% SW ch-acc

SW ch-acc w/ME buff vs SW ch-eva solo
              291% - 191% = 100%

SW ch-acc solo vs SW ch-eva w/ME buff
            276% - 201 =  75% ch-acc SW solo

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12 hours ago, GoddessSand said:

Doing all that to improve the PU and nerf the SW will double down on nerfing the SW. The PUs, SEs, MEs, and WHs can see us coming if they so choose, leaving SWs, DEs, and CBs shouldn't be able to see us coming. With the DEs, CBs, MEs, and WHs having high def buffs, nerfing us makes everybody stronger and cannot be killed. PUs aren't supposed to tank SWs. However, I will say that there does needs some improvements on the PU front.

SE's however need a nerf to their movement speed, like big time. They shouldn't be able to travel faster than a 180 bike as that's double the speed of any player and with their slows makes them go 10 to 200 times faster than others. That speed buff should only have them go 150 max or 140 in arkana. Also a nerf to their ch-acc as their Ch-acc reaches past 260% alone gives them closer to 80% ch-acc, which is too high. At most I say they should get 60% or 65% on their own and nerf to the MEs Ch-acc so they can get 75% maybe 78% ch-acc. Currently they can get enough ch-acc to reach 100% meaning they can stun us from a distance run uber fast and kill us while we are buffed and we can't even get close enough to do any damage without getting stunned first. With the SE detect skill, high ch-acc, and the ability to move faster than a bike allows the SE to get close enough for the SW to buff(if they buff too late they are good as dead) once SWs buff they SE just needs to run away for 10 seconds and then start attacking the SWs since SWs buffs are gone. Happens all the time. Having their Ch-acc as high as it is allows them to attack the SW freely and buff or no buff SWs die in seconds.

MEs need a nerf to their party buffs including the ch-acc as that gives everybody too much Ch-acc.Giving players anything above 15% is too high. Also, move a small amount of the ME def party buffs over to the ME self buffs and that reduced ch-acc to the ME self buff as well. 

CBs also need a nerf to their movement speed as they shouldn't be allowed to travel faster than bikes as well. Giving them the same as the SE or less is what I recommend.

SWs buffs are now way too short or way too small. If players maintain their buffs for Ch-acc, then the SWs need a increase in duration of escape artist to 13 seconds and ch-eva so the SW can get 20k which it is currently capped at 19k, Players are getting 270 to 290 ch-acc which is 80~100% ch-acc and that's too high since ch-eva is the SWs only saving grace.  If players have their ch-acc reduced that get them then increasing the duration of escape artist to a bit longer to about 13 seconds would be helpful since everybody has high def buffs that last longer than 15 seconds.
           Just a thought, what about increasing Shadow strike slightly make it 5 pts to use and void slash reduced by the amount shadow strike got increased and make void slash 3 pts to use?

Not sure what else to talk about.

I agree with all that, only thing is that PU's ch-acc max is set around 265% which is the lowest between al classes to have any surviving chances against a Sw even if you build your PU solely to try withstand a Sw trying to stun 1/3 of it's stuns, despite the new Mind over Body buff

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4 hours ago, SparkOne said:

Is it possible to cap a player Max stat to certain range like even tho u get medic acc or ch acc buff it stays at 250% max n not exceed watsoever

Same thing goes for Ch eva ….so giving SW 60% chance to survive factor...from being stunned

Also biggest thing to wait would what Lvl 60 Mechs would do ….will they just act a multiplier to current lvl 50 mech dmg or have something new rebalanced skills ….

Bad idea, would be a false statement and fooling the players around.

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4 hours ago, GoddessSand said:

Most of the time, any player supported by the Medic is more OP than the players who aren't. Should that be the case that all players who have ME support become too difficult to kill? I did say to reduce the ME support buffs then having SE's higher ch-acc to make sense, but having high ME support buffs and high ch-acc makes the SE too OP. The same goes for the ME support buffs for the SW, reducing them for the party keeps players from being too OP to deal with that it doesn't require an ME on the other side. Often if a ME enters a BG, not AK or NB, the side who got the ME is too OP to deal with.

Yes. It is honestly a rhetorical question. In literally EVERY MMORPG over the past 19-years that's been the case. Whether we're talking sandbox games with open-world PvP, or themeparks with structured formats. It goes without saying but generally, a DPS class with a Support class is going to be an insta-win against a lone DPS. Guild Wars 1 and 2, WoW, Black Desert, TERA, practically any MOBA, etc. Are there exceptions, of course. Gear, skill, lag, over extending, whatever. But generally. Reading what I bolded made me instantly think of the "Pikachu face". 

As for ME's entering BG's, again I have to say of course. Supports are one of the most requested classes across all content in any MMO. They're a dying profession, and have always been the least played class(es) because nearly everyone wants to do damage, a few want to stand around looking tough, and that 1% wants to keep everyone alive running around like a chicken with their heads cut off from the other 99%. Combine that with the general hate and blame thrown at them, leveling process, gearing process, etc. and it's no wonder people don't want to play the support classes. A lot of modern games are omitting dedicated healers/supports because of this. But again, yes, a dedicated support character SHOULD be able to help increase their parties/groups/side's chance at victory. If all it takes is ONE ME showing up to a BG, I'd question the losing side more than the winning side. Team work makes the dream work, after all.

I'd like to remind everyone that this is a Korean game, one that was published by Aeria games. They ( Korean games ) are 99% of the time heavily unbalanced especially when there's a ton of systems in place to increase peoples in game 'power'. You will never balance this game. Doesn't mean I don't think you should try but, I'm not interested in playing if you guys are going to play whack-a-mole every patch because 3 people on this forum said X was too OP because Y had a Z. That's like every damn forum for any game ever created. Always got someone saying rock beat scissors and dislikes it enough to tell everyone. I'd hope that you guys are actively testing what's considered OP and weak on your test server using lots of different scenarios with a couple of handful of players.

I already absolutely hate the new skills buffs/nerfs at my cap on PU, ME, and WH and am still pissed that they were combined and made into new ones. Ya'll want to make new skills, make them. Leave the old ones alone. Tweak them if you want in the name of "balance". But my wallets shut if this is something that's going to happen every patch.

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