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7 hours ago, Norleras said:

Curious as to how PUs would feel if they got additional debuffs to boost damage instead of damage buffs?

To count on 1 single skill? so a single target? It feels quitting even more certain.

LET'S TALK FACTS about few things: some Debuffs, class wise:

Whipper:  debuffs -1400 gravity and -4600 all other resists, it debuffs -4300 void (adding mech), -1270 def, immobilizes and disables too. I dun wanna talk about stuns.

Sentinel: debuffs -3300 void, up to -7000 resists (ironic PU max resists are around 5.1k - some 3k if ghost set), -200 def

Shadow Walker: debuffs -3800 resists, -5000 crit void, -320def (ironic PU def is around 656), -2600 void

Defender: debuffs -2800 void, -2300 eva, -1400 ch-eva

Cyberblade: -110% Phys/Chk atk -2800 crit rate and -1800 crit atk, -886def -2000 void -2900 resists -400crit eva, -10,000 eva, -6500 eva

Medic: all buffs lol (I hope this gives an idea to GSes)

Punisher: -2900 void -2900 resist -2000 DoT reduction -1700eva that's it. 

In conclusion PU has the lowest debuff, and actually also the lowest self helping buff if you check. PU does way less burst than any class atm, even DE has 2x PUs' burst.

These are all single or 2 skills summarizing, rests assure everyone has their own builds, but class wise these are the debuffs you get.

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2 hours ago, SparkOne said:

Well they should actively take players from who play for so long to test server,,,,shouldn't just conclude with 8-10 players

Like have some players who have special access to test server ...

I agree. I don’t know who all are private testers, but there’s a pretty good chance that there needs to be more. Preferably more players at the highest level cap, who have dedicated “main” classes and understand how they work. If it’s just a handful of players testing, they’re not getting the data they need prior to a patch going live.

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11 minutes ago, iProtect said:

I agree. I don’t know who all are private testers, but there’s a pretty good chance that there needs to be more. Preferably more players at the highest level cap, who have dedicated “main” classes and understand how they work. If it’s just a handful of players testing, they’re not getting the data they need prior to a patch going live.

Bit late. Not really into stone paper scissor

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I agree with ita give DE more debuff 😂 -3200 void, -2600 eva, -2000 ch eva. Btw you missed DEF calculation its not straight up 600 - 320, while total def is the sum of every def on your gears, Defense piercing is calculated same as void piercing its 100 = 1%

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5 hours ago, BesTweaveR said:

LET'S TALK FACTS about few things: some Debuffs, class wise:

Sentinel: debuffs -3300 void, up to -7000 resists (ironic PU max resists are around 5.1k - some 3k if ghost set), -200 def

most end game SEs that i seen use only lvl1 gatling storm in this patch,which give -5% void debuff for 6sec, most probably increase it to 4lvl at best which gives -8% void for 8,5sec, so most SEs run with -18%-21% void debuffs combo , this mostly because we need get hp passive high to survive most encounters and we cant really sacrifice our slows and buffs, highest useful resist in debuffs we have, do get to -55%(atomic) after that comes -46%(Gravity) and rest are -25%, im not gonna talk about that -70% particle resist because no sane se use any those skills in pvp because they take too many skillpoints and not really that useful with rotations, so that -70% particle be useless for se to use

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Whoever are those testers avoid playing 1v1 or dueling each other...

Come in Mass PVP take the values urself see what's working for the class...where there rises real issue....

SW no doubt should be real assassin class should have instant kill access n don't die easy....But in BG Janus SA TP ,,,generally they wont prefer joining they wud die to sw 1v1...( Noobs apart)

While I was really hoping Vivi would come with something for people joining more of BG and have some decent n even PVP....but its now reduced to 1v1 or 1v0 or SA ended in a draw 0v0...

Only Real BG is NB or AK....Where early NB FK dominating currently with less then 20 numbers to play that NB,,,While later NB 50-50 unless FK show up in numbers....

Well this isn't the place to post this topic but I agree to fix Skills first to near satisfaction  of players all class cant be OP ….its just classes should be bit balanced according to What the class can do as there name suggests..

 

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5 hours ago, Norleras said:

There were more.  I won't name names, though.

but if none of you is a real punisher you guys should at least listen to people who played the class for about seven years now instead of guessing what would be good. for once do something that @BesTweaveR or I have been suggesting and undo those pointless changes you've made so far. some of those changes were a waste of effort, such as the damage passive and overkill's animation

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3 hours ago, ΣvilTεrεsα said:

most end game SEs that i seen use only lvl1 gatling storm in this patch,which give -5% void debuff for 6sec, most probably increase it to 4lvl at best which gives -8% void for 8,5sec, so most SEs run with -18%-21% void debuffs combo , this mostly because we need get hp passive high to survive most encounters and we cant really sacrifice our slows and buffs, highest useful resist in debuffs we have, do get to -55%(atomic) after that comes -46%(Gravity) and rest are -25%, im not gonna talk about that -70% particle resist because no sane se use any those skills in pvp because they take too many skillpoints and not really that useful with rotations, so that -70% particle be useless for se to use

I can agree with you that not all max some skills that I mentioned indeed everyone have their own builds ofc, however my point was just to highlight that compared to other classes PU has way less debuffs.

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9 hours ago, Norleras said:

He's referring to class advantages over others.

Yeah, I should have known that. I was tired and actually got up out of bed to add my 1 cent to the convo. lol

There will always be class advantages. This game uses the standard fantasy archetypes with the tried and true advantages and weaknesses. An SW should have an inherit advantage over a PU when all else is equal ( gear, jewels, skill ). They're an "Assassin" class. They go in, try and take out priority targets, or gank those that are being dumb like over extending their support, and get out of there. With all the detection and ACC/CH-ACC going around, I think @GoddessSand is right. Should he be able to completely decimate equal geared DPS backed by a ME? If they play bad, sure. ME's main heal is only on a 3 second CD. With all of our heals/buffs having fast-ish cast times. So with only one target to heal, it's easy to burst heal someone with all healing skills/buffs. Obviously there's even more healing at ya'lls caps. That said, he should still have a chance to outplay a DPS/Healer team.

@SparkOne I was with you until you said SW's should be able to instantly kill, and not die easily. They're an Assassin class. They're not tanks. Historically in MMO's they have high DPS, and low defense but have enough time to kill their targets when using evasive-type skills and supported by an healer when their RNG skills fail. Outside of that, I agree 100%. The game needs to be balanced at a level of what a class SHOULD do and good at inherently. Not this idea of making all classes viable at everything.

Regarding PU's, I believe they are meant to be high burst damage dealing classes that balanced themselves out due to lengthy CD's, slow mobility and having to root themselves in place or, at least confine themselves to a small circle to maximize DPS. This all was completely neutered, and needs to be patched back in.

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15 hours ago, iProtect said:

I already absolutely hate the new skills buffs/nerfs at my cap on PU, ME, and WH and am still pissed that they were combined and made into new ones. Ya'll want to make new skills, make them. Leave the old ones alone. Tweak them if you want in the name of "balance". But my wallets shut if this is something that's going to happen every patch.

PU at 29 cap is actually a lot better now then it was b4. ME and WH is more or less the same.

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Dont touch medics please, they already trimmed down the acc buff, the detection buff is a cocoon that give concealment debuff not a detection buff its so much different now. The only thing I hate is the enchanted foil and shadow foil is so messy take out shadow foil void, crit-eva and resist put it all in enchanted foil, likewise put eva and ch eva on shadow foil it looks damn messy, no need yo sugarcoat things the fact that ME gives tremendous eva, ch-eva, resist is OK 😏 no one really bats an eye, dunno if people care 🤣

  • SW gets buffed this patched
  • SE buffed this patch is somewhat BS you gave them acc buffs but it costs them 8 points that they need to remove somewhere.
  • PU's damage gets nerfed realtime, skills rearranged giving them more skill points. Damage wise they can still deal more damage to DE compared to other DPS.
  • DE get buffed this patch and given a useless skill, dunno if people really use it, my old me is so much more better.
  • ME is buffed, they lower ACC remove, AoE "DETECTION" buff, and was given a total of +35% eva, +23% ch eva, +11% CE 🙄, +25% resist with exception of particle which is +12% and +9% void. Dunno if you guys are blind but this stats are SE and SW wet dreams dream buff, not to mention PU's cocoon gives good eva too now everyone misses one another. 🙄
  • CB still decent, trimmed down a bit but is OK . Dont cry please.
  • WH is not perma stun now unlike before, can also deal good damage using DoT on 1 v 1 😂🤣 DoT's damage gets out healed in mass PVP.

This patch gave us:

  • No arkana that 2 - 3 shot people
  • Lowered ACC buff and removes AoE detection buff for ME, gives tremendous amount of eva, ch eva and CE.

This patch is good for SE, SW. The rest gets balanced, PU players got used to insane amount of damage thats why they feel naked now that the damage mastery is replaced with a pathetic passive 🤣

 

PS: Literally not in any SE wildest wet dreams they will ever achieve 290% ch acc 😂🤣

SE with eta gloves + wiz/ghost set = 201% + perfect ch randoms +16% , +self buff 16,% +20% ME buff, +20 unique%  = 273 but then again they would be sacrificing alot of damage and gold just to reach that height. This is assuming they have a dedicated ME to support them. Only SW can reach insane amounts of ACC and CH ACC with their buff and still complain, While most of the class suffer alot more with this buffed Ch acc and eva and CE. Im not even complaining I was so happy they rescaled DE's voltage tree thats enough for me 🤣

 

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4 hours ago, Bikini said:

PU at 29 cap is actually a lot better now then it was b4. ME and WH is more or less the same.

Like I said, it’s irrelevant to me whether it was a buff or nerf, I’d rather see new skills than this messy Skill Menu with 8 million things for each skill. “Keep it simple, stupid!” springs to mind when looking at them; ain’t calling anyone names. Also, the language used when talking about ME’s in general sent up some warning flags. Taking away Enchanted Projection’s bubble only putting it on self buff so SW’s have an easier time banking ME’s. Things like that. I don’t even run Foil now. Rather keep people thinking I’m going to use it mid rotation or something.

 

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1 hour ago, Beau said:

 

  • PU's damage gets nerfed realtime, skills rearranged giving them more skill points. Damage wise they can still deal more damage to DE compared to other DPS.
  • PU players got used to insane amount of damage thats why they feel naked now that the damage mastery is replaced with a pathetic passive 🤣

What would that even mean when actually 4 combos of my PU with max buffs and cluster lv. 2 against your DE I could only take off 60% of your HP with Max Crit Atk set, and 40% of HP with max Chk set, over various attempts. No to mention your DE would 2 hit me dead whenever my stuns get over, despite your DE being under my Enfeeble effect.

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11 hours ago, Beau said:

But DE has less debuff than PU ☹️

How many classes can solo a DE atm? Your burst is double and you can kill. Your cirt atk probably surpasses that of a hybrid PU, Frenzy adds up +8000 crit atk +4500 crit rate which is same at PU Firing Squade, but DE gets extra +2000 crit rate actually, and DE's Armageddon adds +4500 crit atk and +4500 crit rate.

This makes DE a full tank but also in other terms a PU, as mentioned in earlier post currently DE's got a much better burst than PU. Because of OP skills as Armageddon, Cynosure, Eye of Storm, Wheel Impact etc which deal great damage.

Unlike DE, PU has no attack skills that add Crit Atk, but 2 that add Crit Rate only, however we can't max them: Demolition asks for 15 skill points and Mighty Impact 10, in comparison DEs' Armageddon requires only 4 and gives greater effects.

A PU that goes fully crit atk build including crit atk jewels, is pretty useless considering it has no acc or ch-acc to stop SE, SW, ME, and with such build besides physical miss it often misses also stuns over high gravity resisting classes such a DE, ME, WH. I've tested it fully and that happens. Not to mention the tragedy against a SW with such build: PU is the new Jesus.

Since last patch till the current the Hybrid PU seems to be the only way to make it a bit useful in terms of damage, at least you know you will not just miss but hit, even if maybe a little damage but it will happen. That is why I always told a Max DMG built PU is useless (because it's efficacy comes only through ME support).

While in current patch a fully CHK built PU just does not have enough burst and does half the damage of a Physical built PU LOL. Go test it, because I did.

However, the current PU is absolutely not even close to be an anti tank class.

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11 minutes ago, Recognized said:

I seriously dont understand, there r few ppl who doesnt like new PU build, but there r few ppl who rlly love this new build bcs u can make whipper n de cant move n let them die. But im sure PU should be the only class who can kill tanker classes.

There are plenty of issues to be addressed to make PU's new builds usable. I've talked about nearly all the issues in past posts on this thread:

Basically the GMs idea about PU was DoT: but they did not calculate number of skills against the CDs of DoT or Atomic skills, you can find all the details on the matter in my previous posts, just scroll back.

Atomic build has same issues. 

Both builds create a lot of dead times in combos because PU runs out of skills. By any chance if you SMH manage/choose to get the basic skills they simply make no damage.

PU has 3 DoT skills: with 10, 25, 35 sec CD.

Atomic skills 3: 15, 20, 40 sec CD

I'm closing this post here because I feel like repeating myself, but I hope I gave you a bit of idea.

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            Thats the highest damage so far, taking 60% out of my HP, downside is you dont have any means to protect yourself, other DPS literally deals non existent damage, Im not event using iron skin on SW, SE or CB just mech HP potions out heal all the damage they deal. you can ask celia, adam, kini, gunner and peeping how does their damage feels againts DE. The only people that can literally deal damage on me is sparky and you but then again PU has no means to protect themselves after their initial rota is done.

            Frenzy turns you into a chewy meatballs, you need timing and patience before you can use it on mass pvp, most of the time you wont find any, Firing squad + offense cocoon on the other hand gives you more damage output and the fact that most skills reach 20m+ getting rooted wont be a problem in mass PVP where PU is at the farthest spot and can shoot people while ME supports them.

Same build wiz/ ghost and Iota weapon

My PU on full buffs can reach 10k crit rate, 19.9k crit attack, 148ish acc and 200ish ch acc

Void stats = 6k close to 7k , ch resist = 5300ish close to 6k, damage 5.6k -7 7k min/max, ch atk 4.5k - 6kish min max

My DE on full buffs can reach 10k crit rate, 18k crit atk, 148.1 acc, 201.1 ch acc,

void, 2.1k void, 2.5k ch resist, 5.3k -7k min max atk, 4k -5.425k ch atk

This stats is abit higher than DE without any repercussion aside from root, you have a 20m range + manual target.

1 missclick on DE can make your team lose, there's so much more to it on tanking aside from popping buff and running to enemy army. DE dont have the disable a WH has, my CC and hard hitting skills CD is too high 20s cd to 30 not to mention most of it is single target. Only time DE shines is when noob people focus fire me 🤣

 

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1 hour ago, Recognized said:

N i dont feel sw get buffed in this patch, u need to use shadow strike + void slash which is take more time to apply debuffs be4 finishing blow. Imo, nothing diff with prev sw, current sw is just take longer to apply debuffs.

Longer to apply debuffs and fewer skills under the full effects of the debuffs for the commonly used rotations SW, if I may add.

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