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For SE: I think its better to combine the effects of hex, exhaust and subjugate into one skill. It takes too much time to debuff a target with 3 skills. I think inner sight could provide a small accuracy bonus or transfer the accuracy bonus of light speed to inner sight instead. 

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7 minutes ago, rabbit said:

For SE: I think its better to combine the effects of hex, exhaust and subjugate into one skill. It takes too much time to debuff a target with 3 skills. I think inner sight could provide a small accuracy bonus or transfer the accuracy bonus of light speed to inner sight instead. 

I personally would not mind this.

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for debuff tree: i feel like that would free up too many points, its also not the main objective to get all 3 debuffs and makes you decide a different build. but im hearing that alot but also hearing it might be too op to just give them to you out right in 1-2 debuffs.

While subjugate has nice defenseive debuffs, the acc debuff cant be used for kiting especially if you are able to fit points into the particle tree that now has acc debuffs.

 

still need to see if it would be op to give you the chacc buff to a more used skill rather than one not used as much? ill take into consideration. 

Edited by Daddy

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Just to point out E17 and F17 cells on SW tab of daddy's skill calc have wrong formulas. Also the value for cell F21 shud be 4 not 14. Just in case some of ya didn notice it.

So I've been using daddy's calc and skill guide, sittin here for hours, crunching the math, tryin to come up with viable chakra build for my SW. Came into conclusion that it's still not worth goin full chakra.

I have mixed feelings for the split of our debuff. Void Slash, if maxed, is basically the twin half of Shadow Strike. Odd thing is the 8 seconds cooldown at lv1 and 30sec at lv max. So it's a choice between a round-the-clock minor debuff or a 30sec interval for full debuff. Now that's multi layer split. And  by split I wish it could instead have been Shadow Strike for full Void and Def debuff and Void Slash for full Crit-Void and Ch-Res debuff.

SE got additional 8 points detection from Skirting Disaster. No improvement on our concealment abilities. Great! SE had more than enough detection before the patch if only they were willing to invest in detection passive. Now I'mma go ragequit! jus kiddin 

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oop ima go fix the calc thanks. EDIT: Fixed calc if any of you want to recopy it.

se had to give up alot for detect, to the point they lost very major skills, and most ran without any of it. easy to adjust based upon open beta test from here.

 

ill see what luna thinks for sw stuff @Norleras

Edited by Daddy

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7 hours ago, Recognized said:

Idk why no class have conceal buff. Medic have detection only. Maybe u guys can make a conceal buff  in medic that only works for sw? All classes have detection buff rn.

N also PU is not the counter class for sw. Its the counter class for tanker. Im fine if they improve more to sentinel just to countwr sw. But for punisher, nah. Bcs start from ASB all i know only SE is the counter class for sw

First there are 2 characters that can fade and be concealed, the SW and PU. The SW when in fade is free to move around. The PU is pretty much stuck right where they used it, they move they break their concealment. SWs are normally alone class that breaks away from the PT to attack behind the front line to kill the ME. The ME has a Detect buff because it needs it to help people help her from those sneak attacks. The SE has a detect buff because that's what it does, seeks out and attacks players who conceal themselves. I don't know why the WH was given a detect skill but it does and with the ME, it should enhance their ability to detect. The other thing the PU can do along with conceal is detect faded SWs that come within range. It's pretty OP for a PU to conceal themselves and use a detect skill to attack SWs while in fade while the SW is left to their concealment. And if the SW isn't buffed the PU will be free to target and kill them before the SW knows what happened. Now if you started giving other classes a concealment you are looking at making that class too OP.

Now let's talk just about the SW, while the SW could have higher concealment on their own to avoid just about any detect skill given to players it doesn't turn out for the best for the SW. Here's why, normally players they attack will have high defenses and the SW will need to break through those defenses to actually kill them. Problem is, if a SW maxes out their concealment they lose their attack power and in most cases that will mean the SW can't kill anybody that they might target and especially so if that target had their defenses buffs up. Normally a SW could identify those buffs are up, but the problem is that many players can just rotate their defense buffs. Take the WH, CB, and DE all have a defense buffs that as soon as one wears off they move to the other, not really fair given that the SW and SE are limited time for how long their defense will last and leaving them vulnerable to attacks after that. Then you have players like the PU(not too sure about this one) and ME that their defense buffs tend to last longer than their CD for them. That means that they can remain buffed pretty much indefinite and to have an indefinite defense buff the SW needs to break through that. If they max conceal they are weaker, so how do you help the SW if it doesn't stay within the group once they go off to attack somebody they can't kill even though they can be hidden well enough to do so? Well, that's where the ME comes in, as the ME could buff the SW with the needed attack buffs to compensate for the their lack in attacks since they used their skill points to max their conceal. That will work but it takes a SW that has their skill tree build right and the right ME buffs to pull it off. However, often times the SW is playing without a ME and that means that even though they can't be detected by others, they also don't have to attack power to pull off a kill attack and are better off being a support attack player. So, that leaves the SW on it's own to figure out what to do with their own concealment.

On a side note, the SW use to have a skill called smoke screen that would do 2 things. One it would increase the concealment for them for anybody who went inside it. The other is that it reduced the players acc and ch-acc so that hitting the SW became harder to do. Problem with that skill was that SWs found it unreliable and thus a waste of skill points because it required people to stay within the area and it required the SW to get too close to the target area to use it against their enemy which by that time they were caught before they could use it. Putting it down first and stepping inside was another option, problem is that people knew you were more likely in their and the reduction of Acc/ch-acc didn't work if they weren't in there too. So, players usually just used their range attack skills to attack inside the area without stepping inside. Which again defeated the purpose of trying to reduce their acc/ch-acc for the survival of the SW. Every SW that tried it abandoned it's use and went with just increasing their attacks. With it being abandoned, it has now been changed to cause a DoT attack that players are testing on long term viable uses but seems promising.

 

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1 hour ago, Daddy said:

for debuff tree: i feel like that would free up too many points, its also not the main objective to get all 3 debuffs and makes you decide a different build. but im hearing that alot but also hearing it might be too op to just give them to you out right in 1-2 debuffs.

While subjugate has nice defenseive debuffs, the acc debuff cant be used for kiting especially if you are able to fit points into the particle tree that now has acc debuffs.

 

still need to see if it would be op to give you the chacc buff to a more used skill rather than one not used as much? ill take into consideration. 

Now, before somebody calls me stupid, this is more just ignorance as I am still trying to figure out what way to build my own character and not sure about the SE, but here's my thoughts.

If the idea is to keep them from using all 3 at once and causing it them to become too OP all together, then maybe keeping them separate is better and the players need to figure out who to use what debuff on. I mean you wouldn't need to debuff a player's resistance and void if they are ch-eva and eva built, but it would be viable to debuff their eva and ch-eva as well as their acc to that they can't hit you while you are attacking them. While players who do rely on their resistance and using that skill on them specifically is better and you don't need to worry about their eva and ch-eva because they don't have any. Then keep them separate and it will actually be to the benefit of the SE, in away, that will have the free debuff for another character rather than using all of them on 1 person. They could potentially use them on 3 separate players too.

I think if combining the 3 into 2 skills, I would think that you would take the skill points required for the 3rd skill and add them to the other 2 debuffs so that maxing them out takes more work while not allowing them to have skill points freed up for other uses. I would just be scaling the min and max levels so that each level is gives off less of a debuff per level. So, like if each skill took 6 points  you make the 2 skills take 9 points to max. Then take the max effect and put it at level 9 which would be the max of the level 6, then for level 8 it would be as though it was an amount between 6 and 5 previous, lvl 7 would be at the previous level 5, lvl 6 would be between 4 and 5 previous, lvl 5 would be the previous level 4, lvl 4 would be between 3 and 2, level 3 would be previous level 2, lvl 2 would be between previous lvl 1 and 2, and lvl 1 would well stay the same. Just make sure that certain level caps are also accounted for.

 

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@GoddessSand Dude! A Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF) would be nice if you're going to be making these essays.  There are those who don't have to patience to read through all of it when there are many others to look through along with many other things to worry about. 

There is a reason there are people who just provide short, clear, and concise answers to decision makers first and then the justifications..

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Im DoT build rn, but the problem my debuff is lower than others bcs i ignored shadow strike now. Just focusing on void slash to make my enemy keep staying on my smoke. N i agree with sicat if im correct about making void slash n shadow strike into diff debuff. Example void slash, its void, so reduce void n crit void only. Shadow strike teduce def n resist. So ppl can choose which debuff should they use. Maybe u guys can discuss it.

Ohh 1 more can u add a number in skyjump? I mean if u r using skyjump, below the cursor there is a number how far is that. N i still dun understand why skyjump break our stealth lol

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 On the issue with whippers getting stunned on pull,which leaves it at a decent disadvantage

I was wondering if adding a disable to the pull for same duration as the stun could fix the issue,or replace Hook an Sinker 1 and Athena's Hate  with a modified  'Dragging',with adjustments being made to stun duration/dmg of course(not sure about hook 2)

(Dragging is CB mech pull+stun)which seems not to suffer from the issue of someone using their stun on u when you pull them. @Daddy @Vivi

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Or changing it into immoblize? Idk it will make wh overpowered or not. But thats just my opinion.

Ohh 1 more this maybe out of topic. We know if sw cant use skill stone bcs it will makr all stealth skills bugged, so is there a good plan?

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I was guna see if Vivi can copy the animation of Hook and Sinker II as it’s not bugged. Problem with putting the disable is it may put the disable icon and tag could be confusing for everyone lol Idk if you all remember when wh pull was turned into a slow and disable but not happening again 💀💀💀

 

@Recognized the intention of the dot is that you lose things but we are currently looking into it’s effectiveness once we’ve gotten some feedback about it. 
 

@GoddessSand are you saying to slightly change the debuffs to different types of debuffs but keep at 3 separate ones

Edited by Daddy

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if the other 2 pulls could get H&S 2 animation would be great,idk how long it would take but making h&s2  20m range would be a quick part fix as the only proper working pull rn.btw right now h&s2 vs sadist choice,sadist choice is winning on range,even tho its 15m xD

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Can’t make it 20m due to the aoe on it making it reach further than 20m. It wasn’t even 20m in ASB. It was prob 18m 

 

also cant copy cbs animation to athena and i doubt we can copy an arkana animation to a mech but ill see

Edited by Daddy

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yea was 18m,anything more than the current 16m would be good,feels super short,i know u said u had to adjust this still,as for the others if anything can get done would be appreciated,like pepper said its really annoying for whs rn.

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On 11/3/2019 at 6:09 AM, Daddy said:

yeah. Reflect is very tricky I can provide some insight. I'm adding it to my other post soon but I can say here as well.

 

Reflect:

I tested this skill within 1%~100% values and its honestly such a lackluster skill, specificaly in mass PVP. It's honestly useles anything less than 50% because the defender still takes full Damage and reflects whichever value they put points into, so 60% right now. Any buff will lower how good the reflect value is, max iron skin makes reflect literally useless. In mass pvp there are so many people that can hit you and the damage you reflect will go to seperate targets you will die FAST. A de without iron skin is way squishier than people think.  Any debuff will amplify how effective reflect is, this is why reflect cannot be used at the same time as Frenzy.

There are additional issues I have found with reflect, it actually literally reflects pulls so if a CB or WH pull you they will go to you. In my mind that is actually a really cool consequence to pulls we have desperately been needing but its also a new feature that may not go well with the player base. I need to guage it with Vivi and you all need to see as well. In my mind i think its amazing we finally have a drawback to pulling. If we keep it i will adjust pulls on WH a bit so its not so agressive, im going to change a bit anyways as doing open testing I have noticed how shitty the CD is but it still needs to be higher than before.

Honestly anything less than 50% reflect will be uselss. I have many changes in mind for it but reflect could possibly not make the final cut but I want to see if it can first. Many people view reflect as you should be able to kill them with it in 1v1 while its up, while it is possible and I tested it with toe on like 3 classes, it takes alot of skill and effort to do so. Waiting it out is probably easier lol, yes i know its long. Think of it like the reflects on bosses in dungeons and in worldbosses, we dont go full out when we used to fight them. It required a lot of help to do so. This game has a lot of mass pvp elements and seeing something get really trashed mainly cus  its only seen in the light of 1v1 isnt really helpful. But yes, reflect will be altered so don't worry.

 

A lot of the changes were to help with how mass pvp is conducted.

Yes reflect is useless it world be better if u guys give a semi atk buff like pu have 2 atk buff u guys can give it a small buff with out any debuff with low time like 10-15sec i am happy de got another stun world be more happy if we get one or 2 more aoe on mech or change reflect to aoe atk because like other class de have 3 aoe if u compare to other tank class wh all aoe cb 4 aoe but other then reflect i am happy i tested hp passive i got massive hp booster but anyways ty u guy did a good job even though we need some more changes if u guys need i am always available thanks guys  

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I think what the defender need would be a defensive aoe buff to live up to her name. Maybe that new anti-whipper buff on the medic would actually fit better on the defender?

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Well that skill is for all dots, not just wh and has elements to enhance medic in certain ways. DE also has 3 defensive debuffs that can act as buffs in the area it is done, two are aoe. 

i'm not sure how everyone would feel like having a aoe buff on defender though especially if it could make defender herself more op in tanking than she already can be. Medic has tend to be more of the aoe buff person besides a few here and there. Defender is already an expensive class even after lowering some requirements and rankings. She could lose a lot by adding another thing to her plate.

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I'm not interested in DOT build for my SW rn but would it be possible to change the targeting system of Poison Smoke. Instead of aiming with mouse, why not have it cast like PU's offensive/def cocoon so smoke automatically form around wherever we are standing during cast?

Another thing. I find it way lot more difficult to fade-escape on mech than in arkana mode. Heck it's almost certain death for me to mech up during a getaway. Thanks to the beefed up Precision we now have much higher dps but since other classes are also got beefed up, our mortality also significantly increased. So how about removing the charge time (perhaps the +15 move speed as well) from our mech skill Laser Focus?

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If u want to make poison smoke like PU's cocoon then they will need to increase the diameter. Bcs its too small, thats why they make it looks like photon trap. But with larger aoe, it seems OP. I can kill CB with guardian as long as their max hp isnt more than 30k (with poison smoke + offensive skills).

Or maybe remove poison smoke n making a buff that allow sw have a chance to do DoT. For example when u r under this buff, each hit has a ??% chance to do DoT n stack 3times or maybe not. As we know we cant even use skill stone to avoid all stealth bug

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I still can’t get behind the ME changes; Kali included as currently, it seems 100% more busted than it was. I know they’re still tweaking it, but right now, a Mech’d ME can sit there and spam 1 and 2 back-to-back, with 3 sprinkled in. This is due to them cutting down the animations for the attacks and seemingly not even require them sometimes. Again, they’re working on making this more fluid, but as it stands, I do more damage than I did with Mech buff.

As far as the actual ME buffs, just can’t do it. They just don’t seem right. Maybe make the self-buffs targetable instead? That way I can use it on someone else if needed since ya’ll are Hell bent on splitting the darn skills. 

Another thing that kind of gets my panties in a bunch all throughout the Skill breakdown is the language used. “To make Medics easier to kill...” , “Giving them huge don’t fuck with me bubbles to let SW’s know not to attack...” HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

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18 hours ago, iProtect said:

I still can’t get behind the ME changes; Kali included as currently, it seems 100% more busted than it was. I know they’re still tweaking it, but right now, a Mech’d ME can sit there and spam 1 and 2 back-to-back, with 3 sprinkled in. This is due to them cutting down the animations for the attacks and seemingly not even require them sometimes. Again, they’re working on making this more fluid, but as it stands, I do more damage than I did with Mech buff.

As far as the actual ME buffs, just can’t do it. They just don’t seem right. Maybe make the self-buffs targetable instead? That way I can use it on someone else if needed since ya’ll are Hell bent on splitting the darn skills. 

Another thing that kind of gets my panties in a bunch all throughout the Skill breakdown is the language used. “To make Medics easier to kill...” , “Giving them huge don’t fuck with me bubbles to let SW’s know not to attack...” HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Edit] confirmed, Kali spamming attacks 1,2 kills faster than before.

I for one like the split buffs. At least it opens options to tweak the medic without affecting aoe.

The issue with particle resist is sad. Especially when you realize what it means. Medic easy to kill for dps classes, hard to kill for whippers and medics. It's a faction nerf. Wish they were more frank with this.

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There's three classes that have access to particle.  One of which barely uses the arkana form ones.  Which leaves DE and SW as the main particle users.  In case you haven't noticed, ME gained a lot of Plasma and Atomic Resist in return with PU having more Plasma skills now and SE using Atomic frequently. 

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1 hour ago, Norleras said:

There's three classes that have access to particle.  One of which barely uses the arkana form ones.  Which leaves DE and SW as the main particle users.  In case you haven't noticed, ME gained a lot of Plasma and Atomic Resist in return with PU having more Plasma skills now and SE using Atomic frequently. 

Who are you kidding? Your sentinel will happily kill the medic in arcana mode with particle and then switch to mech for the whipper. 

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